Re: [Finale] Fwd: Sale: Dorico Pro 2 and Dorico Elements 2

[Craig Parmerlee]

It is very difficult to compare Dorico with the other products because 
Dorico operates on a different plane.  Whether that different plane is 
good for a person might depend  on many factors.  I am not here to claim 
it is better for everybody, but I definitely am far more productive with 
Dorico than I have been with any other notation product.  I don't do 
anything very exotic in my scores.  I mainly write jazz band 
arrangements, straightforward full-orchestra pieces, lead sheets and 
similar things.  I don't do any "experimental music" that might call for 
daring, unconventional or very complex notation. So I cannot comment on 
how well Dorico does with those things.


There is one major architectural piece that makes a big difference.  
Beyond that, my productivity comes from a minute saved here and there.  
It all adds up.  The big architectural piece is that you don't actually 
enter notes in the traditional sense.  You give Dorico pitches that have 
a starting place and a length.  They don't even have to be within 
measures that have a distinct time signature.  Dorico uses its own rules 
(that are highly customize-able) to express that information as notes.  
So it seems like directly entering notes, just like any other program.  
All programs let you easily change pitches.  But the big difference is 
that Dorico makes it very easy to change the starting point and duration 
of any item.  And here's the big thing: it is IMPOSSIBLE for the updated 
information to be notated badly because Dorico is in charge of 
expressing the notes, separate from the internal storage of the music.  
With Finale, when you drag and drop a passage, if it ends up in a 
different rhythmic place, you may have to spend several minutes cleaning 
up the notes to make them show correctly.  You never do that with 
Dorico.  Similarly, things like cautionary accidentals are applied 
automatically in real time.  It is impossible to miss a cautionary 
accidental or do it wrong.  There are more cases like this.  This really 
makes a big difference and obviates the need for most of the situations 
for which people have relied on plug-ins in Finale.


Similarly, chords have an internal and external representation.  There 
is only one internal representation for Maj7 for example.  However, you 
can select rules that govern how you want the chords displayed (e.g. 
Cmaj7, CM7, Ctriangle7, etc). It is impossible for the symbols to be 
displayed incorrectly, and you can change your rules at any time without 
ever having to change your score.  It instantly re-draws according to 
the rules.  And chord entry is far more forgiving in Dorico.  You can 
type in chord spellings using any of the typical conventions and Dorico 
will handle it.  It is as easy to enter chords into Dorico as into 
Band-in-a-box, if you are familiar with that.  Huge time savings for me 
on that item alone.


Lots of little things.  You can copy any text element and place the copy 
anywhere you need it; and this is rich text that has lats of formatting 
control.


The big time savings come from the final parts layout.  I literally 
spend 5-10 minutes per 2-page part in Finale editing the layout.  You do 
very little of this in Dorico.  Most automatic decisions are pretty good 
and you can quickly tweak the things you don't like.  On a big band 
chart with 17 parts, I will easily save an hour in final editing, 
usually more than that.


I know you are deeply invested in plug-ins.  I'd bet half of the current 
Finale plug-ins would not be needed at all in Dorico, but some of the 
others might be badly missed.  So it becomes a question of whether the 
necessary changes in workflow would give you a faster, higher-quality 
end product. I cannot answer that.  I know the trade-off is heavily in 
Dorico's favor for the things I do, but it might not be so clear cut for 
others.






On 1/25/2019 11:03 AM, Robert Patterson wrote:

I would be very interested to know more specifics about the things that are
"well beyond Fin/Sib". Graphically, I know about flexible slurs, and I
would be curious to know if lines (like 8va) also have multiple inflection
points.

Beyond that, I would be curious to know what makes Dorico so much more
superior for part layout.

Do you use any 3rd party plugins with Finale? In my experience, working
without key 3rd party plugins in Finale is the slag mines. But I've
developed a workflow using several key plugins that is very fast for many
of the things you mentioned. In fact, it is difficult to imagine them being
much faster.

ymmv




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Re: [Finale] Fwd: Sale: Dorico Pro 2 and Dorico Elements 2 / Perfect Layout for Finale

[Jan Angermüller]

If you're interested in trying something new with Finale, you can also 
join our Perfect Layout beta test.
The plug-in is a massive layout helper for Finale with more than 100 
features including collision detection and automatic score balancing.

More info https://elbsound.studio/perfect-layout/
and the latest video demo: https://www.youtube.com/embed/VIFQZjLg7pA

The public beta has been around now for a few months now (after 5 years 
of development). To join the beta you need to subscribe to the Elbsound 
newsletter and will get more info by mail as it still requires a 
non-disclosure agreement.
The plug-in is not available for free, but participating in the beta 
will get you a good discount.


Currently only the Windows version is available. It runs in 2014, 
2014.5, 25 and with minor limitations in 26.
The MacOS version is on the way - here a preview from last week: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFUpFmfAGMk .


Jan Angermueller
Elbsound.studio


Am 24.01.2019 um 21:37 schrieb Craig Parmerlee:
I would also note Sibelius 2019 was announced this week.  It seems to 
be roughly the same magnitude of the Finale 26 release.  I am sure the 
improvements are welcome, but really, this is a minuscule amount of 
improvement for a paid release.  Dorico is adding capability 10-to-100 
times faster than either Finale or Sibelius.


Dorico has a steep learning curve, and it is getting steeper all the 
time as layers of capability are added.  It still lacks a few things 
that the other programs have. For example, there is not yet any 
automatic way to have a single line in the score (e.g. FHorn 1&3) 
break out to separate parts for Fhorn 1 and FHorn 3.  And Dorico's 
automatic playback isn't as advanced as Finale Human Playback.  But 
Dorico already does some things that are well beyond Finale and 
Sibelius.  Moreover, the architecture is more elegant, particularly in 
the ability to lay out music intelligently in a minimum amount of 
time.  On the playback side, many people are using Note Performer with 
Dorico and claiming very good results.  I don't care that much.  The 
playback is good enough for what I do.


I still have Finale 25 installed in case it is required for a 
collaboration, but I am doing all my new projects in Dorico now. I 
find a typical project is taking about half as long with Dorico as I 
would have spent in Finale.  Much of that comes at the back end where 
I had to spend hours in final editing of part layouts. With Dorico I 
typically spend about one minute per page for part layout -- sometimes 
no editing at all. But Dorico also provides big opportunities for time 
saving during the note entry and harmonization processes.



On 1/22/2019 8:21 AM, David H. Bailey wrote:

Hello Finale and Sibelius Friends,

I'm forwarding this message to both the Finale and Sibelius groups, 
in case anybody is interested in exploring Dorico. Using the code 
DORICO30 you can get 30% off of either Dorico 2 or Dorico Elements 2 
(a lighter version of Dorico) for this week only apparently.


Both of those programs also have free demo versions you can download 
and explore.


I'm not trying to push it on anybody but I know some people might be 
curious.  Version 2 brought many major improvements over version 1.


I freely admit that I am still not very fluent in Dorico, knowing 
that it will take me a lot of work to master it, but I also know 
there are people in both Finale and Sibelius groups who have taken to 
Dorico and are doing major projects in it.


There is a forum at steinberg.net for people who want to get a sense 
of how users are faring with the product.


Dorico still uses their elicenser software or their extra-cost USB 
dongle, so for people who are vehemently opposed to such anti-piracy 
methods, nothing has changed and you probably won't want to explore 
Dorico beyond the demo versions (I don't know if those have any 
anti-piracy methods since they're freely distributed by Steinberg.)


However, given the lack of forward motion in Sibelius and the lack of 
substantive improvements in Finale beyond the automatic stacking of 
articulations, Dorico may well be the future of professional level 
computer notation software.


Just wanted to let you all know,
David H. Bailey 



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Re: [Finale] Fwd: Sale: Dorico Pro 2 and Dorico Elements 2

[Robert Patterson]

I would be very interested to know more specifics about the things that are
"well beyond Fin/Sib". Graphically, I know about flexible slurs, and I
would be curious to know if lines (like 8va) also have multiple inflection
points.

Beyond that, I would be curious to know what makes Dorico so much more
superior for part layout.

Do you use any 3rd party plugins with Finale? In my experience, working
without key 3rd party plugins in Finale is the slag mines. But I've
developed a workflow using several key plugins that is very fast for many
of the things you mentioned. In fact, it is difficult to imagine them being
much faster.

ymmv


On Thu, Jan 24, 2019 at 2:38 PM Craig Parmerlee  wrote:

> I would also note Sibelius 2019 was announced this week.  It seems to be
> roughly the same magnitude of the Finale 26 release.  I am sure the
> improvements are welcome, but really, this is a minuscule amount of
> improvement for a paid release.  Dorico is adding capability 10-to-100
> times faster than either Finale or Sibelius.
>
> Dorico has a steep learning curve, and it is getting steeper all the
> time as layers of capability are added.  It still lacks a few things
> that the other programs have. For example, there is not yet any
> automatic way to have a single line in the score (e.g. FHorn 1&3) break
> out to separate parts for Fhorn 1 and FHorn 3.  And Dorico's automatic
> playback isn't as advanced as Finale Human Playback.  But Dorico already
> does some things that are well beyond Finale and Sibelius.  Moreover,
> the architecture is more elegant, particularly in the ability to lay out
> music intelligently in a minimum amount of time.  On the playback side,
> many people are using Note Performer with Dorico and claiming very good
> results.  I don't care that much.  The playback is good enough for what
> I do.
>
> I still have Finale 25 installed in case it is required for a
> collaboration, but I am doing all my new projects in Dorico now.  I find
> a typical project is taking about half as long with Dorico as I would
> have spent in Finale.  Much of that comes at the back end where I had to
> spend hours in final editing of part layouts.  With Dorico I typically
> spend about one minute per page for part layout -- sometimes no editing
> at all. But Dorico also provides big opportunities for time saving
> during the note entry and harmonization processes.
>
>
> On 1/22/2019 8:21 AM, David H. Bailey wrote:
> > Hello Finale and Sibelius Friends,
> >
> > I'm forwarding this message to both the Finale and Sibelius groups, in
> > case anybody is interested in exploring Dorico.  Using the code
> > DORICO30 you can get 30% off of either Dorico 2 or Dorico Elements 2
> > (a lighter version of Dorico) for this week only apparently.
> >
> > Both of those programs also have free demo versions you can download
> > and explore.
> >
> > I'm not trying to push it on anybody but I know some people might be
> > curious.  Version 2 brought many major improvements over version 1.
> >
> > I freely admit that I am still not very fluent in Dorico, knowing that
> > it will take me a lot of work to master it, but I also know there are
> > people in both Finale and Sibelius groups who have taken to Dorico and
> > are doing major projects in it.
> >
> > There is a forum at steinberg.net for people who want to get a sense
> > of how users are faring with the product.
> >
> > Dorico still uses their elicenser software or their extra-cost USB
> > dongle, so for people who are vehemently opposed to such anti-piracy
> > methods, nothing has changed and you probably won't want to explore
> > Dorico beyond the demo versions (I don't know if those have any
> > anti-piracy methods since they're freely distributed by Steinberg.)
> >
> > However, given the lack of forward motion in Sibelius and the lack of
> > substantive improvements in Finale beyond the automatic stacking of
> > articulations, Dorico may well be the future of professional level
> > computer notation software.
> >
> > Just wanted to let you all know,
> > David H. Bailey
>
>
> ---
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> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
> ___
> Finale mailing list
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Re: [Finale] Fwd: Sale: Dorico Pro 2 and Dorico Elements 2

[Craig Parmerlee]

I would also note Sibelius 2019 was announced this week.  It seems to be 
roughly the same magnitude of the Finale 26 release.  I am sure the 
improvements are welcome, but really, this is a minuscule amount of 
improvement for a paid release.  Dorico is adding capability 10-to-100 
times faster than either Finale or Sibelius.


Dorico has a steep learning curve, and it is getting steeper all the 
time as layers of capability are added.  It still lacks a few things 
that the other programs have. For example, there is not yet any 
automatic way to have a single line in the score (e.g. FHorn 1&3) break 
out to separate parts for Fhorn 1 and FHorn 3.  And Dorico's automatic 
playback isn't as advanced as Finale Human Playback.  But Dorico already 
does some things that are well beyond Finale and Sibelius.  Moreover, 
the architecture is more elegant, particularly in the ability to lay out 
music intelligently in a minimum amount of time.  On the playback side, 
many people are using Note Performer with Dorico and claiming very good 
results.  I don't care that much.  The playback is good enough for what 
I do.


I still have Finale 25 installed in case it is required for a 
collaboration, but I am doing all my new projects in Dorico now.  I find 
a typical project is taking about half as long with Dorico as I would 
have spent in Finale.  Much of that comes at the back end where I had to 
spend hours in final editing of part layouts.  With Dorico I typically 
spend about one minute per page for part layout -- sometimes no editing 
at all. But Dorico also provides big opportunities for time saving 
during the note entry and harmonization processes.



On 1/22/2019 8:21 AM, David H. Bailey wrote:

Hello Finale and Sibelius Friends,

I'm forwarding this message to both the Finale and Sibelius groups, in 
case anybody is interested in exploring Dorico.  Using the code 
DORICO30 you can get 30% off of either Dorico 2 or Dorico Elements 2 
(a lighter version of Dorico) for this week only apparently.


Both of those programs also have free demo versions you can download 
and explore.


I'm not trying to push it on anybody but I know some people might be 
curious.  Version 2 brought many major improvements over version 1.


I freely admit that I am still not very fluent in Dorico, knowing that 
it will take me a lot of work to master it, but I also know there are 
people in both Finale and Sibelius groups who have taken to Dorico and 
are doing major projects in it.


There is a forum at steinberg.net for people who want to get a sense 
of how users are faring with the product.


Dorico still uses their elicenser software or their extra-cost USB 
dongle, so for people who are vehemently opposed to such anti-piracy 
methods, nothing has changed and you probably won't want to explore 
Dorico beyond the demo versions (I don't know if those have any 
anti-piracy methods since they're freely distributed by Steinberg.)


However, given the lack of forward motion in Sibelius and the lack of 
substantive improvements in Finale beyond the automatic stacking of 
articulations, Dorico may well be the future of professional level 
computer notation software.


Just wanted to let you all know,
David H. Bailey 



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[Finale] Fwd: Sale: Dorico Pro 2 and Dorico Elements 2

[David H. Bailey]

Hello Finale and Sibelius Friends,

I'm forwarding this message to both the Finale and Sibelius groups, in 
case anybody is interested in exploring Dorico.  Using the code DORICO30 
you can get 30% off of either Dorico 2 or Dorico Elements 2 (a lighter 
version of Dorico) for this week only apparently.


Both of those programs also have free demo versions you can download and 
explore.


I'm not trying to push it on anybody but I know some people might be 
curious.  Version 2 brought many major improvements over version 1.


I freely admit that I am still not very fluent in Dorico, knowing that 
it will take me a lot of work to master it, but I also know there are 
people in both Finale and Sibelius groups who have taken to Dorico and 
are doing major projects in it.


There is a forum at steinberg.net for people who want to get a sense of 
how users are faring with the product.


Dorico still uses their elicenser software or their extra-cost USB 
dongle, so for people who are vehemently opposed to such anti-piracy 
methods, nothing has changed and you probably won't want to explore 
Dorico beyond the demo versions (I don't know if those have any 
anti-piracy methods since they're freely distributed by Steinberg.)


However, given the lack of forward motion in Sibelius and the lack of 
substantive improvements in Finale beyond the automatic stacking of 
articulations, Dorico may well be the future of professional level 
computer notation software.


Just wanted to let you all know,
David H. Bailey


 Forwarded Message 
Subject:Sale: Dorico Pro 2 and Dorico Elements 2
Date:   Tue, 22 Jan 2019 13:47:18 +0100 (CET)
From:   Steinberg Online Team 
Reply-To:   re-34n3daj5-348mjs4m-hlz...@news.steinberg.net
To: dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com



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Dorico January Sale: Dorico Pro and Dorico Elements at a special price! 






*30% off: Dorico Pro 2 and Dorico Elements 2*
Save 30% on *Dorico Pro 2* or *Dorico Elements 2* for one week only! 
Step up to the pro choice for music notation and scoring. It’s fast, 
easy, beautiful and will help you get music on the stand quicker than 
any other app. But act fast: this offer expires January 29, 2019!


To take advantage of this exclusive offer, please use below coupon code 
at checkout.

*Coupon code:*

DORICO30






 
*Get Dorico 2 now and save 30%!* 
 






















Dorico January Sale: Dorico Pro and Dorico Elements at a special price! 




*30% off: Dorico Pro 2 and Dorico Elements 2*
Save 30% on *Dorico Pro 2* or *Dorico Elements 2* for one week only! 
Step up to the pro choice for music notation and scoring. It’s fast, 
easy, beautiful and will help you get music on the stand quicker than 
any other app. But act fast: this offer expires January 29, 2019!


To take advantage of this exclusive offer, please use below coupon code 
at checkout.

*Coupon code:*

DORICO30


Get Dorico 2 now and save 30%!