Re: [Finale] TAN: Is Bratschen Obsolete?
At 5:56 PM -0800 12/15/09, Ryan wrote: Is the term Bratschen for violas obsolete in German? Would it be better to use Violen? If you like, I could ask on the OrchestraList. Or the ViolaList. I'm certainly not aware of any change from the traditional terminology, which is embedded in every German-published score I've ever seen, but there's no reason why I would be. I would think that there might be confusion between the term for alto-tenor violin and that for viola da gamba if that change were made, but then there's already confusion with the term viol in English, which mean viola da gamba but could be taken to mean bass viol (i.e. string bass or double bass or bass violin). John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html We never play anything the same way once. Shelly Manne's definition of jazz musicians. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] TAN: Is Bratschen Obsolete?
To John Howell, Get your galoshes out, Herr Docktor! I hear you are due for some BIG snow Friday! We in Tidewater are not expecting anything but more RAIN! Guy Hayden ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] TAN: Is Bratschen Obsolete?
At 1:19 PM -0500 12/17/09, Guy Hayden wrote: To John Howell, Get your galoshes out, Herr Docktor! I hear you are due for some BIG snow Friday! We in Tidewater are not expecting anything but more RAIN! Que sera, sera! And here in the mountains, accurate predictions seem to be awfully difficult. But my grades are due Saturday, and I can submit them from home as long as my Internet connection works! On the other hand, on the weather report a little while ago they were showing a fairly weird Low off the coast, and saying that there's no telling what it might bring to your area. Let's both just stay warm! John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html We never play anything the same way once. Shelly Manne's definition of jazz musicians. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Is Bratschen Obsolete?
On 16 Dec 2009, at 17:36, John Howell wrote: At 5:56 PM -0800 12/15/09, Ryan wrote: Is the term Bratschen for violas obsolete in German? Would it be better to use Violen? If you like, I could ask on the OrchestraList. Or the ViolaList. I'm certainly not aware of any change from the traditional terminology, which is embedded in every German-published score I've ever seen, but there's no reason why I would be. I would think that there might be confusion between the term for alto-tenor violin and that for viola da gamba if that change were made, but then there's already confusion with the term viol in English, which mean viola da gamba but could be taken to mean bass viol (i.e. string bass or double bass or bass violin). There's no confusion and I have seen Violen or Viola in many German scores. If you look at lists of musicians on web pages of German orchestras you'll see both Bratsche and Viola being used (I just checked Mannheim, where I work, and SWR Baden-Baden, who both use Viola, and the Berliner Philharmoniker, who use Bratche). Michael ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
AW: [Finale] TAN: Is Bratschen Obsolete?
Bratsche, that is...;-) Bratche is an americanism...;-) as is Herr Docktor (correct: Herr Doktor) Bratsche in german is just a synonym for viola which is italian, actually. It is still in use, despite of all the Bratschen-Witze (viola jokes) that are around. I read a lot of American literature, and quite a lot of german that is misspelled (missspelled?) (I don't know, but this would be using the new german orthographic rules...;-))) Never mind... Just my 2 cent(imes) Kurt -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] Im Auftrag von Florence + Michael Gesendet: Freitag, 18. Dezember 2009 00:39 An: finale@shsu.edu Betreff: Re: [Finale] TAN: Is Bratschen Obsolete? On 16 Dec 2009, at 17:36, John Howell wrote: At 5:56 PM -0800 12/15/09, Ryan wrote: Is the term Bratschen for violas obsolete in German? Would it be better to use Violen? If you like, I could ask on the OrchestraList. Or the ViolaList. I'm certainly not aware of any change from the traditional terminology, which is embedded in every German-published score I've ever seen, but there's no reason why I would be. I would think that there might be confusion between the term for alto-tenor violin and that for viola da gamba if that change were made, but then there's already confusion with the term viol in English, which mean viola da gamba but could be taken to mean bass viol (i.e. string bass or double bass or bass violin). There's no confusion and I have seen Violen or Viola in many German scores. If you look at lists of musicians on web pages of German orchestras you'll see both Bratsche and Viola being used (I just checked Mannheim, where I work, and SWR Baden-Baden, who both use Viola, and the Berliner Philharmoniker, who use Bratche). Michael ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: AW: [Finale] TAN: Is Bratschen Obsolete?
Isn’t Bratsche Italian also, just in a Germanized spelling? The full Italian term is Viola da Braccio as contrasted to Viola da Gamba (arm versus leg). Why not go with the Swedes: altfiol? A month ago I bought myself a bratsch (the Danish spelling) just for the fun of it. My repertory is very small, but then it is largely out of tune. Klaus in DK --- On Fri, 12/18/09, Kurt Gnos kurtg...@bluewin.ch wrote: From: Kurt Gnos kurtg...@bluewin.ch Subject: AW: [Finale] TAN: Is Bratschen Obsolete? To: finale@shsu.edu Date: Friday, December 18, 2009, 12:54 AM Bratsche, that is...;-) Bratche is an americanism...;-) as is Herr Docktor (correct: Herr Doktor) Bratsche in german is just a synonym for viola which is italian, actually. It is still in use, despite of all the Bratschen-Witze (viola jokes) that are around. I read a lot of American literature, and quite a lot of german that is misspelled (missspelled?) (I don't know, but this would be using the new german orthographic rules...;-))) Never mind... Just my 2 cent(imes) Kurt -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] Im Auftrag von Florence + Michael Gesendet: Freitag, 18. Dezember 2009 00:39 An: finale@shsu.edu Betreff: Re: [Finale] TAN: Is Bratschen Obsolete? On 16 Dec 2009, at 17:36, John Howell wrote: At 5:56 PM -0800 12/15/09, Ryan wrote: Is the term Bratschen for violas obsolete in German? Would it be better to use Violen? If you like, I could ask on the OrchestraList. Or the ViolaList. I'm certainly not aware of any change from the traditional terminology, which is embedded in every German-published score I've ever seen, but there's no reason why I would be. I would think that there might be confusion between the term for alto-tenor violin and that for viola da gamba if that change were made, but then there's already confusion with the term viol in English, which mean viola da gamba but could be taken to mean bass viol (i.e. string bass or double bass or bass violin). There's no confusion and I have seen Violen or Viola in many German scores. If you look at lists of musicians on web pages of German orchestras you'll see both Bratsche and Viola being used (I just checked Mannheim, where I work, and SWR Baden-Baden, who both use Viola, and the Berliner Philharmoniker, who use Bratche). Michael ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: AW: [Finale] TAN: Is Bratschen Obsolete?
My repertory is very small, but then it is largely out of tune. sounds like you're ready for the orchestra. HAHAHAHAHAHA. erm... sorry. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Is Bratschen Obsolete?
At 17:56 15.12.2009 -0800, Ryan wrote: Is the term Bratschen for violas obsolete in German? No. Would it be better to use Violen? Only if you want to take the risk of getting violas da gamba. Howard -- Howard Weiner h.wei...@online.de http://howard-weiner.de/ Tosca jumped to a conclusion. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Is Bratschen Obsolete?
On 16.12.2009 Ryan wrote: Is the term Bratschen for violas obsolete in German? Would it be better to use Violen? It is definitely not obsolete, although if you are using this term in scores it sounds particularly German. It is more customary to use Italian terms for Instruments, at least in the music I deal with, ie pre 1900. But I see Bratschen a lot in later scores. Johannes ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Is Bratschen Obsolete?
No, it's not obsolete. Both Bratsche (plural Bratschen) and Viola (plural Violen) are used in German. In spoken German I'm more used to hearing Bratsche; in printed scores I see both terms but I don't know which one is more common. Suit yourself! Michael On 16 Dec 2009, at 02:56, Ryan wrote: Is the term Bratschen for violas obsolete in German? Would it be better to use Violen? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] TAN: Is Bratschen Obsolete?
Is the term Bratschen for violas obsolete in German? Would it be better to use Violen? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
