Re: [Finale] Flipping tuplets and slurs in FinMac 2008
Doug Walter wrote: I thought I'd bring up something that I haven't seen mentioned (it may have come up before and I didn't notice) in hopes of saving others some time and potential frustration. In working on a score in 2008, I found myself using Command-F to flip tuplets from above to below or vice versa, but in doing so, I noticed that their color changed, indicating that they had become unlinked. Sure enough, on examining the part involved, they were also orange, but still in their original (unflipped) position. I called tech support, thinking that this was a bug and that nothing should become unlinked by virtue of moving it in the score. He confirmed he had seen this and suggested that I control-click on the handle of the tuplet(s) involved and use the contextual menu to relink it, which worked. I had found that this could also be accomplished by going to Utilities Change Tuplets and making the adjustment there instead of using Command-F, and they would flip without becoming unlinked, but it was more mouse clicks than I'd prefer to have to make. What I've just discovered now is that my mistake was in using the OLD keyboard equivalent of Command-F instead of the NEW one which involves simply hitting the letter F with the tuplet handle selected. That will flip it without unlinking it. I had been doing the same thing with slurs, with the same unwanted result, until I found that hitting ONLY the letter F works for them as well. The even better news here is that it can be done immediately after creating the slur, since it's still selected at that point. Forgive me if this is old news for some, but it's another case of a command having been changed that slipped completely under this long-time user's radar. Hope it helps someone avoid a similar waste of time. Thank you for sharing this with us -- I'm surprised that the tech support person who was helping you didn't know this (actually, I'm not surprised by that fact at all, unfortunately). This is not old news for me, I can assure you, and I very much appreciate you sharing it with us. Have you experimented with using just the letter F to flip triplets in the parts? Do they remain linked, and thus flipped, in the score when they're edited in the parts this way? It's great to have two ways to accomplish this, one to maintain the link and one to break the link, and it will be great if that works backwards from part to score as well as forward from score to part. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Flipping tuplets and slurs in FinMac 2008
Darcy James Argue wrote: Hi Doug, On Mac, the command key is the override key for linked parts. When you perform an action with the command key held down (like, for instance, dragging an expression), you are telling Finale to override the default behavior w/r/t linked parts and do the opposite. For example: normally, when you drag a linked expression in the score, this does not break the positioning link, and causes the expression to be moved in both score and parts. But if you hold down the command key while dragging, the positioning link is broken and the expression will move in the score only -- the parts will be unaffected. Alternately, if you drag a linked expression in the parts while holding down the command key, the expression will be moved in both part and score, and the positioning link won't be broken. The same logic prevails with slurs: while viewing the score, F (no modifier key) in the score flips the slur in both score and part. While viewing a part, F (no modifier key) flips the slur in the part only, and also breaks the link. Command-F does the opposite in both cases. [snip] Thank you for the further clarification, Darcy! I will take some time this next week to read the manual a lot more than I have, but in the meantime I have a question for this apparent reversal of key-stroke effects -- Can anybody explain to me why the same keystroke shouldn't have the same function in both score and parts? What logic is there in forcing us to remember that if we're working in a score we have to do the opposite of what we're doing in the part to achieve the same effect? From what Darcy says, it seems: SCORE -- cmd-F breaks the link but F by itself maintains the link PART -- cmd-F maintains the link but F by itself breaks the link Why can't there be consistency among these things? It seems as if they are making it unnecessarily complicated. Why not cmd-F breaks the link no matter which view and F by itself maintains the link no matter which view? I don't get it. Which isn't surprising because there's lots about Fin2008 that I don't get. :-( -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Flipping tuplets and slurs in FinMac 2008
To further discuss Doug's frustration -- My problem has been the fact that for so many versions, Finale's changes have been more evolutionary, minor changes from one version to the next so that anybody who had upgraded regularly was never hit with a large re-learning curve. Even when they introduced linked score/parts in 2007, it seemed much easier to grasp since most of the interface had remained the same. But with 2008, there have been such huge alterations including the total removal of the mass-edit tool and the gutting and moving around of the measure tool functions that it is a major overhaul of the whole thing, and requires major rereadings of the manual, as if it were a brand new program. I plead guilty to having assumed (I know, the fault with this is mine entirely) that this upgrade was like all the others I've encountered, and that after an initial few bumps of transition, things would settle down and become easier to figure out. But 2008 is really like a whole new program, and for those I need a printed manual. By that I mean a WELL printed manual, such as Sibelius offers at extra cost. Not the we'll print the pdf for you (and not too well at that) version that Finale offers for the same price. I'm willing to pay the extra cost, I just want a book that's possible to read and find things in! I don't do well with on-screen manuals for anything more than brief refresher reference, I hate reading books on my computer screen. And I'm not about to trash a whole rain forest printing it out, nor will I pay the silly fee that Finale charges for a bad printing job. I guess I'll see if the available html conversion programs will make the Finale OLD readable on my Sony PRS500 ebook reader. David H. Bailey Doug Walter wrote: Thanks for your detailed reply, Darcy. Sadly, I DID spend quite a bit of time with the manual when I started using 2k8, but obviously either not enough time or not recently enough for me to have remembered that particular point. I always find it tricky to strike a balance between a) approaching each new version as if it were brand new and trying to find and learn everything about it that is either unfamiliar or changed, and b) assuming that much of what I know from years of experience with the program will still be useful and relevant. I'm fine with the idea that a certain number of familiar habits and routines often have to be relearned to accommodate changes in the user interface, and I'm the first to admit that if it's in plain sight - i.e., in the manual - it's up to me to find it and absorb it. This, unfortunately, was a case where I had in fact found it once, but evidently didn't absorb it. I don't know what I find more frustrating, though - the fact that I didn't consult the manual when this happened to me, or the fact that the tech support person I spoke with offered nothing remotely similar to Darcy's explanation and basically provided a workaround, despite my having described the problem to him exactly as I did here. But I realize that's REALLY another topic . . . Doug On Apr 21, 2008, at 6:33 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: As I always remind people when this topic comes up: it is really in your best interest to Read The Finale Manual, specifically the chapter on linked parts, which is very informative and well-written. I cannot recommend this enough. Linked parts are complicated and difficult to figure out on your own, but if you just take five minutes to read the relevant chapter, I guarantee that everything will make much more sense. Cheers, - Darcy ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Flipping tuplets and slurs in FinMac 2008
On Apr 22, 2008, at 5:09 AM, dhbailey wrote: Darcy James Argue wrote: Hi Doug, On Mac, the command key is the override key for linked parts. When you perform an action with the command key held down (like, for instance, dragging an expression), you are telling Finale to override the default behavior w/r/t linked parts and do the opposite. For example: normally, when you drag a linked expression in the score, this does not break the positioning link, and causes the expression to be moved in both score and parts. But if you hold down the command key while dragging, the positioning link is broken and the expression will move in the score only -- the parts will be unaffected. Alternately, if you drag a linked expression in the parts while holding down the command key, the expression will be moved in both part and score, and the positioning link won't be broken. The same logic prevails with slurs: while viewing the score, F (no modifier key) in the score flips the slur in both score and part. While viewing a part, F (no modifier key) flips the slur in the part only, and also breaks the link. Command-F does the opposite in both cases. [snip] Thank you for the further clarification, Darcy! I will take some time this next week to read the manual a lot more than I have, but in the meantime I have a question for this apparent reversal of key- stroke effects -- Can anybody explain to me why the same keystroke shouldn't have the same function in both score and parts? What logic is there in forcing us to remember that if we're working in a score we have to do the opposite of what we're doing in the part to achieve the same effect? From what Darcy says, it seems: SCORE -- cmd-F breaks the link but F by itself maintains the link PART -- cmd-F maintains the link but F by itself breaks the link Why can't there be consistency among these things? It seems as if they are making it unnecessarily complicated. Why not cmd-F breaks the link no matter which view and F by itself maintains the link no matter which view? I don't get it. Which isn't surprising because there's lots about Fin2008 that I don't get. :-( Actually, I find this aspect totally right about Finale. I WANT things to move in the parts when I move them in the score upon initial entry (which takes no extra key). Next when I comb through the parts, I want things NOT to move in the score when I need to change something in the parts (also no extra key) unless I find something wrong (then I use the override key). Then last of all, I comb through the score again to make it pretty, this time using the override key ALL the time so as not to mess up my perfect parts. Maybe I am just a geek, but this aspect of Finale I just got the first time. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Flipping tuplets and slurs in FinMac 2008
Thanks for your detailed reply, Darcy. Sadly, I DID spend quite a bit of time with the manual when I started using 2k8, but obviously either not enough time or not recently enough for me to have remembered that particular point. I always find it tricky to strike a balance between a) approaching each new version as if it were brand new and trying to find and learn everything about it that is either unfamiliar or changed, and b) assuming that much of what I know from years of experience with the program will still be useful and relevant. I'm fine with the idea that a certain number of familiar habits and routines often have to be relearned to accommodate changes in the user interface, and I'm the first to admit that if it's in plain sight - i.e., in the manual - it's up to me to find it and absorb it. This, unfortunately, was a case where I had in fact found it once, but evidently didn't absorb it. I don't know what I find more frustrating, though - the fact that I didn't consult the manual when this happened to me, or the fact that the tech support person I spoke with offered nothing remotely similar to Darcy's explanation and basically provided a workaround, despite my having described the problem to him exactly as I did here. But I realize that's REALLY another topic . . . Doug On Apr 21, 2008, at 6:33 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: As I always remind people when this topic comes up: it is really in your best interest to Read The Finale Manual, specifically the chapter on linked parts, which is very informative and well- written. I cannot recommend this enough. Linked parts are complicated and difficult to figure out on your own, but if you just take five minutes to read the relevant chapter, I guarantee that everything will make much more sense. Cheers, - Darcy ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
