Re: [Fink-devel] for the wishlist: system-$perlmodule, or the moral equivalent
Hisashi == Hisashi T Fujinaka [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hisashi The reason I quit using cpan is because it puts things places I don't want Hisashi (overwriting /usr/bin/head, for example) No longer. And it put stuff there only because that's where you told it to put Perl. I build into /opt for everything, and have never had a problem. Hisashi and I never knew you could update Hisashi in cpan. There's probably configuration I don't know about. Hisashi Updating in perl is much easier and most of the perl-modules should be Hisashi up-to-date since some stinker (me) emails the maintainers every time their Hisashi modules are updated. The rest of the suggestions in this thread are welcome, but I still think we need to consider that fink is likely to be used by power-compilers like me as well as naive compilers that simply want access to cool Unix binaries for OSX. What's the next step? -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/ Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! --- This SF.NET email is sponsored by: SourceForge Enterprise Edition + IBM + LinuxWorld = Something 2 See! http://www.vasoftware.com ___ Fink-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] for the wishlist: system-$perlmodule, or the moral equivalent
Hisashi == Hisashi T Fujinaka [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What's the next step? Hisashi Well, you never told me how to automatically update things using CPAN. OK, maybe this will sound snotty, but perhaps perldoc CPAN was a bit too hard for you to type? In that case, everything that I'm talking about here is really not intended for you. I'm talking to a different audience... one who is familiar with Perl from other realms, and has built their own Perl to replace the 5.6 (ancient!) installation that comes with OSX. It is to *those* people whom I address the question - how can fink play nicely with a self-installed Perl installation? Something system-MUMBLE-ish should work, but will require the support of the fink developers. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/ Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! --- This SF.NET email is sponsored by: SourceForge Enterprise Edition + IBM + LinuxWorld = Something 2 See! http://www.vasoftware.com ___ Fink-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] for the wishlist: system-$perlmodule, or the moral equivalent
Benjamin Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ben Hines wrote: How about a gurus only option in fink.conf or something that specifies a list of packages that fink will assume are installed? We could allow regex in this list, to you could put something like: IgnorePackages: openssl.*, .*-pm, tetex.* Wouldn't dpkg still fail on installation though? We'd have to make dpkg ignore it too... or force install. :P Yes, this is a problem. That's one of the reasons I was wondering if you can do this in the Debian system, and if so, how they handle it. -- Dave --- This SF.NET email is sponsored by: SourceForge Enterprise Edition + IBM + LinuxWorld = Something 2 See! http://www.vasoftware.com ___ Fink-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] for the wishlist: system-$perlmodule, or the moral equivalent
On Friday, January 24, 2003, at 01:32 PM, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: It is to *those* people whom I address the question - how can fink play nicely with a self-installed Perl installation? Something system-MUMBLE-ish should work, but will require the support of the fink developers. As of now, the various fink packages are separated out into little bundles. Let us suppose that someone writes a nice gtk+ interface for babelfish-pm, and that is packaged up by a fink developer. Of course, that gtkbabel package would depend on babelfish-pm, which in turn depends on libwww-pm, and io-string-pm. And so and, and so forth. So, in the fink perlmods section, we have a selection of 120 packages, many of which simply exist to install dependencies. Under the crudest implementation of this proposal, that would simply mean 120 new packages, each labeled system--semiuseless-pm... Our current system-* packages actually verify that certain files exist-- but the proper maintenance of 120 new packages that validate this behavior might be a little tedious (and bug prone.) Therefore, it might be a better idea to (in the future) ditch finkinfo/perlmods and include something similar to the following in finkinfo files cpan-depends: WWW::Babelfish which would consult the local perl installation, and discover if, in fact the modules exist. If so, fine. If not, download and install via CPAN. The only problem would seem to lie in the fact that with the current system, binaries are easy obtainable. Relying on CPAN to manage one's perl installation would destroy that option (unless I'm very much mistaken.) Jere --- This SF.NET email is sponsored by: SourceForge Enterprise Edition + IBM + LinuxWorld = Something 2 See! http://www.vasoftware.com ___ Fink-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] for the wishlist: system-$perlmodule, or the moral equivalent
Randal, I'm curious about how this works under Debian; do you know? Is it possible for Debian users to notify the Debian system that they have installed perl modules another way? I would also ask the same question about FreeBSD Ports. Either of those could be a guide about how to do this in Fink. One possibility is to have a simple package system-perlmodules which would simply Provide all of the perlmodules on the system (and Conflict with them). We could start with all of the perlmodules which are there now. The problem is going to be keeping this up-to-date. It's basically going to be someone like you, who will be using this all the time, who would be able to keep it up to date. Whenever you got a request from Fink to install a perlmodule, you would know that new ones had been added and you could update the system-perlmodules package. Would you know of anyone who would like to do that job? -- Dave --- This SF.NET email is sponsored by: SourceForge Enterprise Edition + IBM + LinuxWorld = Something 2 See! http://www.vasoftware.com ___ Fink-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] for the wishlist: system-$perlmodule, or the moral equivalent
On Friday, January 24, 2003, at 01:14 PM, David R. Morrison wrote: One possibility is to have a simple package system-perlmodules which would simply Provide all of the perlmodules on the system (and Conflict with I believe i explained how to do this earlier in the thread. -Ben --- This SF.NET email is sponsored by: SourceForge Enterprise Edition + IBM + LinuxWorld = Something 2 See! http://www.vasoftware.com ___ Fink-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] for the wishlist: system-$perlmodule, or the moral equivalent
Ben == Ben Hines [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ben I believe i explained how to do this earlier in the thread. While your way will work in a way that doesn't change code, it's not maintainable. Every person who adds a -pm module would have to also remember to update the system-perl module. I want the core fink tool to understand this relationship. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/ Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! --- This SF.NET email is sponsored by: SourceForge Enterprise Edition + IBM + LinuxWorld = Something 2 See! http://www.vasoftware.com ___ Fink-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] for the wishlist: system-$perlmodule, or the moral equivalent
Jeremy == Jeremy Erwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jeremy Well, one could write a flag --ignore-pm that would simply direct Jeremy fink not to check for the presence of a -pm type package. The fink Jeremy program would then assume that the user had already resolved the Jeremy dependency before hand. The system-perl package would make this Jeremy ignore-pm flag the default. Yeah, now we're getting somewhere. Jeremy Since all of the packages currently bear the Type:perl designation, Jeremy this shouldn't be too difficult to implement :) Hmm. My earlier proposal to rewrite Fink from the ground up would certainly tackle this. Unfortunately, I'm recovering from a Q3 and Q4 loss, so every odd ounce of time I've got is spent doing marketing and sales right now so that Q1 doesn't end up in the same toilet. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/ Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! --- This SF.NET email is sponsored by: SourceForge Enterprise Edition + IBM + LinuxWorld = Something 2 See! http://www.vasoftware.com ___ Fink-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] for the wishlist: system-$perlmodule, or the moral equivalent
On Friday, January 24, 2003, at 03:05 PM, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: Ben == Ben Hines [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ben I believe i explained how to do this earlier in the thread. While your way will work in a way that doesn't change code, it's not maintainable. Every person who adds a -pm module would have to also remember to update the system-perl module. I want the core fink tool to understand this relationship. How about a gurus only option in fink.conf or something that specifies a list of packages that fink will assume are installed? We could allow regex in this list, to you could put something like: IgnorePackages: openssl.*, .*-pm, tetex.* -Ben --- This SF.NET email is sponsored by: SourceForge Enterprise Edition + IBM + LinuxWorld = Something 2 See! http://www.vasoftware.com ___ Fink-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] for the wishlist: system-$perlmodule, or the moral equivalent
Ben == Ben Hines [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: While your way will work in a way that doesn't change code, it's not maintainable. Every person who adds a -pm module would have to also remember to update the system-perl module. I want the core fink tool to understand this relationship. Ben How about a gurus only option in fink.conf or something that Ben specifies a list of packages that fink will assume are installed? We Ben could allow regex in this list, to you could put something like: Ben IgnorePackages: openssl.*, .*-pm, tetex.* Oooh, that would work, as long as new packages follow the right pattern. It'd have to go into the fink bible about what pattern your packages could be. It might be simpler just to have a list of registered keywords though. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/ Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! --- This SF.NET email is sponsored by: SourceForge Enterprise Edition + IBM + LinuxWorld = Something 2 See! http://www.vasoftware.com ___ Fink-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] for the wishlist: system-$perlmodule, or the moral equivalent
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Hisashi T Fujinaka) wrote : it puts things places I don't want (overwriting /usr/bin/head, for example) Dan't blame CPAN, but Apple with their crappy HFS+, for that... I expericenced, the same problem, of course :-} -- Xavier http://www.freetibet.org http://www.tibet.fr/ --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Scholarships for Techies! Can't afford IT training? All 2003 ictp students receive scholarships. Get hands-on training in Microsoft, Cisco, Sun, Linux/UNIX, and more. www.ictp.com/training/sourceforge.asp ___ Fink-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] for the wishlist: system-$perlmodule, or the moral equivalent
On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 11:57 AM, Xavier HUMBERT wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Hisashi T Fujinaka) wrote : it puts things places I don't want (overwriting /usr/bin/head, for example) Dan't blame CPAN, but Apple with their crappy HFS+, for that... I expericenced, the same problem, of course :-} No, DO blame CPAN. Why are they putting stuff in /usr/bin ? That is for vendor supplied things in any case. -Ben --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Scholarships for Techies! Can't afford IT training? All 2003 ictp students receive scholarships. Get hands-on training in Microsoft, Cisco, Sun, Linux/UNIX, and more. www.ictp.com/training/sourceforge.asp ___ Fink-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] for the wishlist: system-$perlmodule, or the moral equivalent
On Monday, January 20, 2003, at 04:45 AM, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: Any thoughts on how to do this without breaking everything open? With the current fink, the way to make a system-* package would be: filename: system-perlmodules.info Package: system-perlmodules Version: 1.0 Provides: gd-pm, algorithm-diff-pm, http-dav-pm (parse the package names from the output of fink list --section=perlmods -w=200 and put them all here) Type: nosource CompileScript: echo Placeholder for all perlmod packages README InstallScript: echo none DocFiles: README (the README is needed because dpkg complains if you have zero files in a package) put that in /sw/fink/10.2/local/main/finkinfo/ and fink install system-perlmodules. That will work for everything except things that have a versioned dependency on a perl module. (cause you can't provide a version with the current fink) -Ben --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Scholarships for Techies! Can't afford IT training? All 2003 ictp students receive scholarships. Get hands-on training in Microsoft, Cisco, Sun, Linux/UNIX, and more. www.ictp.com/training/sourceforge.asp ___ Fink-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] for the wishlist: system-$perlmodule, or the moral equivalent
On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 01:46 PM, Ben Hines wrote: erlmodules.info Package: system-perlmodules Version: 1.0 Provides: gd-pm, algorithm-diff-pm, http-dav-pm (parse the package names from the output of fink list --section=perlmods -w=200 and put them all here) Type: nosource CompileScript: echo Placeholder for all perlmod packages README InstallScript: echo none DocFiles: README (the README is needed because dpkg complains if you have zero files in a package) Actually, my bad, you can use Type: bundle to get around that. So with Type: bundle you don't need the compilescript/installscript, etc. -Ben --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Scholarships for Techies! Can't afford IT training? All 2003 ictp students receive scholarships. Get hands-on training in Microsoft, Cisco, Sun, Linux/UNIX, and more. www.ictp.com/training/sourceforge.asp ___ Fink-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
[Fink-devel] for the wishlist: system-$perlmodule, or the moral equivalent
I've installed Perl 5.8.0 into /opt, and added /sw/include and /sw/lib to the search list. I can build anything in the CPAN myself, using libs provided by fink. It's nice. I never install any of the fink Perl packages. I don't need 'em. However, the packages that depend on those fink Perl packages insist on installing them, and they break if they include anything that might end up in /sw/lib/perl5/darwin, since those binaries are not compatible with my /usr/local/bin/perl (5.6 vs 5.8). I find myself watching the fink install or fink update-all carefully, getting ready to type sudo rm -rf /sw/lib/perl5/darwin immediately if something gets rammed into there. For the wishlist, I would like a way to say I'm managing my own perl installation, thank you. I'm sure it'd be too messy to require the html-parser-pm maintainer to also provide a dummy system-html-parser-pm, so I'm hoping there's a more sane global solution to that. Maybe there could be one large system-perl that provides all the perl requirements for every package. Or maybe just an entry in the config file. Any thoughts on how to do this without breaking everything open? -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/ Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! --- This SF.NET email is sponsored by: FREE SSL Guide from Thawte are you planning your Web Server Security? Click here to get a FREE Thawte SSL guide and find the answers to all your SSL security issues. http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?thaw0026en ___ Fink-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
Re: [Fink-devel] for the wishlist: system-$perlmodule, or the moral equivalent
On Monday, January 20, 2003, at 07:45 AM, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: However, the packages that depend on those fink Perl packages insist on installing them, and they break if they include anything that might end up in /sw/lib/perl5/darwin, since those binaries are not compatible with my /usr/local/bin/perl (5.6 vs 5.8). I find myself watching the fink install or fink update-all carefully, getting ready to type sudo rm -rf /sw/lib/perl5/darwin immediately if something gets rammed into there. For the wishlist, I would like a way to say I'm managing my own perl installation, thank you. I'm sure it'd be too messy to require the html-parser-pm maintainer to also provide a dummy system-html-parser-pm, so I'm hoping there's a more sane global solution to that. Maybe there could be one large system-perl that provides all the perl requirements for every package. Or maybe just an entry in the config file. Perhaps we should move away from providing perl packages entirely-- and name needed perl modules to be installed. After all, CPAN does allow updates via If such packages are not installed, perl -MCPAN - e shell could be invoked with a preset level of inactivity. On the other hand certain perl modules are dependent upon potential fink packages-- various XML modules may depend on expat, Bio:: depends on a number of programs-ace, hmmr, ncbi-tools, etc. To my knowledge, CPAN will not download, package, and install these dependencies. Jeremy --- This SF.NET email is sponsored by: FREE SSL Guide from Thawte are you planning your Web Server Security? Click here to get a FREE Thawte SSL guide and find the answers to all your SSL security issues. http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?thaw0026en ___ Fink-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
