Re: [Firebird-devel] New API and scrollable cursors
28.04.2020 16:46, Mark Rotteveel wrote: On 27-04-2020 18:09, Dmitry Yemanov wrote: The remote protocol support was simply forgotten because nobody asked for that for years. Mea culpa, I was too busy with the replication stuff. Obviously, not so many people use the new API... and even less people use new features introduced there. The fact it isn't in the release notes was a conscious decision, as you replied back in 2013: """ 16.12.2013 22:01, Mark Rotteveel wrote: > The Firebird 3 scrollable cursor hasn't been documented in the > releasenotes. Is this an omission, or isn't it ready yet? So far scrollable cursors are available in PSQL only. In DSQL, they're surfaced in the new API but not implemented yet. This is why they're not documented (and the ticket is not marked as resolved). That time they weren't implemented in DSQL, as I replied to you. However, they *were* implemented since, but only inside the engine. Thus being workable for embedded connections only. And it wasn't documented. Dmitry Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] New API and scrollable cursors
On 27-04-2020 19:53, Pavel Cisar wrote: I don't know if it's possible to provide such feature (even with embedded-only) in wire-protocol-based connectivity packages like JayBird or .NET Provider, but I guess if it would be doable, their maintainers would eventually implement it. In Jaybird I consider embedded (and native) a second-class citizen. If I can't build it in the pure-java implementation, then I'm not going to support something for embedded or native, and sometimes I only implement things in the pure-java version. And the embedded/native support should be equivalent. Currently Jaybird still uses the old API, and I have no plans to switch to the new API. If scrollable cursors ever get surfaced in the wire protocol, I will likely only implement it for pure-java. Mark -- Mark Rotteveel Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] New API and scrollable cursors
On 27-04-2020 18:09, Dmitry Yemanov wrote: The remote protocol support was simply forgotten because nobody asked for that for years. Mea culpa, I was too busy with the replication stuff. Obviously, not so many people use the new API... and even less people use new features introduced there. The fact it isn't in the release notes was a conscious decision, as you replied back in 2013: """ 16.12.2013 22:01, Mark Rotteveel wrote: > The Firebird 3 scrollable cursor hasn't been documented in the > releasenotes. Is this an omission, or isn't it ready yet? So far scrollable cursors are available in PSQL only. In DSQL, they're surfaced in the new API but not implemented yet. This is why they're not documented (and the ticket is not marked as resolved). Dmitry """ Mark -- Mark Rotteveel Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] New API and scrollable cursors
Pavel Cisar a écrit : Dne 27. 04. 20 v 18:09 Dmitry Yemanov napsal(a): 27.04.2020 17:34, Pavel Cisar wrote: The remote protocol support was simply forgotten because nobody asked for that for years. Mea culpa, I was too busy with the replication stuff. Obviously, not so many people use the new API... and even less people use new features introduced there. Well, users would use new API if connectivity package they use would use it. AFAIK only IBX2 provided new API layer as an option till now. Obviously Firebird & FreePascal/Delphi developers did not bother to change from old to new layer, did not use v3 or scroll in it, or used scrollable cursors in embedded-only applications. Unfortunately, Python is not a language of choice for embedded - it's mostly server development. One from main points I started to work on new driver was to help transition from old to new API, and to allow our QA to work with features available only trough it. I don't know if it's possible to provide such feature (even with embedded-only) in wire-protocol-based connectivity packages like JayBird or .NET Provider, but I guess if it would be doable, their maintainers would eventually implement it. Ok, shit happens, so what we will do now? Leave it to Firebird 5 that is who knows how many years in future, or would we try to provide it sooner? Personally, I think that remote scrollable cursors are just an improvement that could be introduced in any version, including maintenance ones, and are worth to be provided anytime sooner than in v5.0. regards Pavel Cisar Personally, I use the new pascal API every day and have been waiting for this implementation for a long time because it is essential for all lib devs without that they do not even start. -- Norbert Saint Georges http://tetrasys.fi Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] New API and scrollable cursors
27.04.2020 20:53, Pavel Cisar wrote: Ok, shit happens, so what we will do now? Leave it to Firebird 5 that is who knows how many years in future, or would we try to provide it sooner? Personally, I think that remote scrollable cursors are just an improvement that could be introduced in any version, including maintenance ones, and are worth to be provided anytime sooner than in v5.0. Sooner, of course. The problem here is that the remote protocol version should be raised. Even if we fail to include this improvement into v4 RC, we could at least reserve the necessary op-codes for the FB4's protocol version (16) and introduce the feature in v4.1. Dmitry Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] New API and scrollable cursors
Dne 27. 04. 20 v 18:09 Dmitry Yemanov napsal(a): 27.04.2020 17:34, Pavel Cisar wrote: The remote protocol support was simply forgotten because nobody asked for that for years. Mea culpa, I was too busy with the replication stuff. Obviously, not so many people use the new API... and even less people use new features introduced there. Well, users would use new API if connectivity package they use would use it. AFAIK only IBX2 provided new API layer as an option till now. Obviously Firebird & FreePascal/Delphi developers did not bother to change from old to new layer, did not use v3 or scroll in it, or used scrollable cursors in embedded-only applications. Unfortunately, Python is not a language of choice for embedded - it's mostly server development. One from main points I started to work on new driver was to help transition from old to new API, and to allow our QA to work with features available only trough it. I don't know if it's possible to provide such feature (even with embedded-only) in wire-protocol-based connectivity packages like JayBird or .NET Provider, but I guess if it would be doable, their maintainers would eventually implement it. Ok, shit happens, so what we will do now? Leave it to Firebird 5 that is who knows how many years in future, or would we try to provide it sooner? Personally, I think that remote scrollable cursors are just an improvement that could be introduced in any version, including maintenance ones, and are worth to be provided anytime sooner than in v5.0. regards Pavel Cisar Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] New API and scrollable cursors
27.04.2020 17:34, Pavel Cisar wrote: Well, I can confirm that IT WORKS *ONLY* in embedded mode. Yes, this is how FB3 was released. The DSQL/API support was added late during the development cycle and IIRC I had issues with the existing batching (prefetch) code in the remote client. Thus it was delayed. Could someone points me to any piece of documentation, Jira entry or even public e-mail that reveals such constraint to mere mortals using Firebird engine? Because I feel like a complete idiot now, and I want to know if it's because I can't read or because I'm too trusting (I can't find such constraint in FB 3.0.0-3.0.5 Release Notes or any piece of documentation in FB 3 distribution). I was sure it was documented, but I cannot find it right now. Looks like being completely overlooked :-( Also, Alex confirmed that this is still not implemented in FB v4 trunk. Because I'm probably not the only one disappointed by this discovery, I really can't wait to hear an explanation and future prospects. The remote protocol support was simply forgotten because nobody asked for that for years. Mea culpa, I was too busy with the replication stuff. Obviously, not so many people use the new API... and even less people use new features introduced there. Dmitry Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] New API and scrollable cursors
Dne 27. 04. 20 v 15:31 Dmitry Sibiryakov napsal(a): 27.04.2020 15:23, Pavel Cisar wrote: Or is the impression that this feature is not actually implemented really true? Yes it is true though should work in embedded mode. Well, I can confirm that IT WORKS *ONLY* in embedded mode. Could someone points me to any piece of documentation, Jira entry or even public e-mail that reveals such constraint to mere mortals using Firebird engine? Because I feel like a complete idiot now, and I want to know if it's because I can't read or because I'm too trusting (I can't find such constraint in FB 3.0.0-3.0.5 Release Notes or any piece of documentation in FB 3 distribution). Also, Alex confirmed that this is still not implemented in FB v4 trunk. Because I'm probably not the only one disappointed by this discovery, I really can't wait to hear an explanation and future prospects. best regards Pavel Cisar Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] New API and scrollable cursors
Dmitry Sibiryakov a écrit : 27.04.2020 15:23, Pavel Cisar wrote: Or is the impression that this feature is not actually implemented really true? Yes it is true though should work in embedded mode. is it functional in embedded? are you sure ? -- Norbert Saint Georges http://tetrasys.fi Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] New API and scrollable cursors
27.04.2020 15:23, Pavel Cisar wrote: Or is the impression that this feature is not actually implemented really true? Yes it is true though should work in embedded mode. -- WBR, SD. Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
