[Fis] Simple Axiomatic Model for Information Science
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Hi all,
I posted this earlier, but seems it got lost in the shuffle.
Perhaps it is so self-evident, and that there is nothing really much
to argue with, so no one said anything. Though if that is the case,
then maybe it is worthwhile to take as a common basis we can all work
with.
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0. A belief is an independent-clause (sentence).
0a) You can call it an information packet or w/e you prefer.
1. Truth is a private belief.
1a) A person has a cluster of harmonious beliefs which form a template
for sieving input.
1b) Beliefs which align with the template are "True".
1c) Beliefs which are not applicable to the template are noise or
confusing.
1d) Beliefs which conflict with the template are either discarded, or
the template is modified to align with them. (to avoid cognitive
dissonance).
2. Knowledge consists of experienced beliefs, typically those that
have been subsumed by the template. For instance "false" belief could
subsume as beliefs held by an other community.
3. Real are the mutual beliefs of a community of people.
3a) facts are elements of the real.
3b) By Integrated Information Theory, even protons have some
consciousness. for example an atom communicates it's beliefs about
it's location and frequency when probed by a photon. So the beliefs of
"inanimate matter" must also be taken into consideration of what is
real. The beliefs of inanimate matter, as measured by mechanical and
electronic tools are typically what is described as "objective reality".
4. Dialogue is the exchange of beliefs.
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## compatibility
The independent-clause basis is compatible with that a certain piece
of writing is not information in and of itself, but only when it is
processed by someone/something that can make sense of it -- otherwise
it is merely noise.
## explanatory power
This helps explain why humans and computers need to have a libraries
or previous template in order to process certain information. As
otherwise it just falls through the sieve.
## predictive power
similarly it predicts what kind of information would work for a given
information processing system, and what would be shrugged off as noise.
And gives a well defined path to making information accessible --
by adding in the libraries to make it possible for the sieve to catch.
## stateless function example
Now a stateless function wouldn't be able to demonstrate all that,
since it doesn't have memory. But it can demonstrate a subset.
For instance a function P that accepts integers and adds one.
function plusOne(input) {
var template = input | 0;
return template + 1;
}
1.
plusOne(1) would give you 2.
plusOne(1.2) wouldn't work since it contradicts the template, so you'd
have garbage output, or no output.
2. 3.
It doesn't have knowledge as it lacks state,
4. it can dialogue or communicate it's output to another function via
it's return value.
## simple state function example
Now if we take a more complex example, a simple state function P' that
adds the input to an accumulator, and then outputs the result;
var accumulator = 0;
function plusGather(input) {
var template = input | 0;
accumulator += template;
return accumulator + template;
}
1.
again here the template would lose some information from any
non-integer input.
2.
it now has some knowledge, and it integrates what it gets through it's
template.
3.
doesn't have beliefs about the external world
4. can still dialogue in the same manner
## simple proton object example
Now lets make a simplified proton object.
var energy = 0;
var reflectArray = [3, 8, 9];
const fermion = 0;
const photon = 1;
function proton(type, frequency) {
if (type !== fermion && type !== photon) return [];
if (type === photon) {
if (reflectArray.indexOf(frequency) >= 0) {
return [photon, frequency];
} else {
energy += frequency;
}
} else if ( type === fermion) { // a bump from another atom
energy = (energy + frequency)/2; // average frequency
return [fermion, energy];
}
}
1. so now anything that's not either a fermion or a photon will be
ignored.
2. photons unless reflected increase the internal energy, thus
contributing to knowledge. Additionally could add a section that
after a certain energy level it would make a setTimeout to release
extra energy as photons.
3. it is capable of interacting with fermions, so if it gets bumped
then it averages their energy and returns the result, so the bumping
fermion can adjust it's internal energy state also.
4. it communicates through return values.
Obviously this is a hyper simplified example.
But in nature it is somewhat similar, in that fermions exchange boson
information packets or independent-clauses that help them co-ordinate
activities and interact with each other.
They also modify their int
Re: [Fis] mind-mind
n.html&data=02%7C01%7Csji%40pharmacy. rutgers.edu%7Cbf7631e0dff442f73d7508d5216fa58b%7Cb92d2b234d35447093ff69a ca6632ffe%7C1%7C0%7C636451685771465824&sdata=N%2F5Hj%2FvBN5SFKXEltkcE2H4 N6RYM%2BWo8%2FLTWin1XSX4%3D&reserved=0 > > >> Dear Alex and FIS Colleagues, >> >> Thank you for the nice remark. >> >> I had listen about such hypothesis but till now I had no >> participate in any experiment of transferring ideas mind-mind. >> Maybe you had taken place in such experiments. Please, give link >> to publications in scientific issues about this very interesting >> phenomenon. >> >> Simple question: If it is possible to transfer ideas mind-mind, >> why you use FIS List to send your ideas to us? >> >> Friendly greetings Krassimir >> >> PS: Unfortunately, this is my second post for this week and I >> please to excuse me for answering the next posts after week. >> >> >> >> From: Alex Hankey Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2017 12:21 PM To: >> Krassimir Markov Cc: FIS Webinar Subject: Re: [Fis] About 10 >> Principles >> >> RE: P1. Information is information, neither matter nor energy. >> >> M1. Information is a class of reflections in material entities. >> Not every reflection is information. Only subjectively >> comprehended reflections are information. >> >> ME: Ideas can be transmitted directly from Mind to Mind - as in >> Rupert Sheldrake's 7th Sense Communication. Lots of Quantitative >> Evidence that Materialists Prefer to Ignore. >> >> The Experience Information model of the Cognitive States shows >> that such Information States Are Not Material Entities. They are >> based round instabilities in Networks of Neurons. >> >> The ability to model Seventh Sense Communication means that this >> phenomenon becomes one of Four Separate Ways to Generate >> Empirical Evidence in support of them. >> >> Hence Information is Not Matter or Energy. >> >> This is but one example of how Principles 1 to 5 can be >> supported. > > ___ Fis mailing list > Fis@listas.unizar.es > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistas .unizar.es%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ffis&data=02%7C01%7Csji%40pha rmacy.rutgers.edu%7Cbf7631e0dff442f73d7508d5216fa58b%7Cb92d2b234d3544709 3ff69aca6632ffe%7C1%7C0%7C636451685771465824&sdata=qJBaUqZfyayrhfOTzhnS4 GC%2B3x5Hm6FI0ls%2F2HmrSmE%3D&reserved=0 > > > > ___ Fis mailing list > Fis@listas.unizar.es > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > - -- Logan Streondj, A dream of Gaia's future. twitter: https://twitter.com/streondj You can use encrypted email with me, how to: https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/en/ key fingerprint: BD7E 6E2A E625 6D47 F7ED 30EC 86D8 FC7C FAD7 2729 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQIwBAEBCAAaBQJZ+ygWExxzdHJlb25kakBnbWFpbC5jb20ACgkQhtj8fPrXJyn/ xA/+MELCQ1IIMTVd54qdZWMhzd2JF4SSNj9EFwaF7nnnvQoXjoxXkMbPwwfb8O+S T44puAjwF3Q5YSczSWtbwxHYdlEEJMY/4iKmTP1GM2C0KAJIc5qHpA30lR2pn+WI 13ono6zHQjciEmsS503bY0FvFywrE4Fj8Z/AgTjRUMA7cQODaThKDL6o9N7iodtV 8RWLCdkuGvPPXGnEhyYvE2PcVSy8PxKw3NIyehJf9tC4YZpWGjAo5abgoMaIi3m3 XtYFn/mVXQchRy3q2I4V63Mu+oOUfZBqwyzm8RNIuCOuaTwWf6AX9VMPk0M6Wizd TobID8o1x+XrWRJJu2fKEiH42S/LAqszzdO4NQKA0xOwPtyu85qKgE3Gjk+EPxa+ rlsPoBaaDwH4QWSjp2HIfqC7JymSbAd5G89lYFKSyO3xB46fnQDFfqoTExq8yHRZ ZdY7zhI/o8WRIdr0/SB1xDx1ulFEKvC1Tae9zFe24gKLFnlhrWjvcllOQ+hLhhY7 APJkJhXiHhIr4VCcWGytvxqMg+QmCBCdE8roWHXTHeZnRmBoKmeWZpzdI7Rbowat m9mXnnwQvCJB368mEJZWdXl5hoV0sQD2rblA/cR1R9Fhx8GRUP/I1D9HdxMwXM9T wLxCcNTgPE1ZVHitBUu75YfvStu6g7n/PdeUqBW2NHbdMs0= =31sy -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
Re: [Fis] About 10 Principles
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Hi Krassimir and all, Thank you for the warm welcome. I did hear about how there was a an exciting debate going on here about the definition of information and apparently the principles of information. I've glanced through the archives and see there have been many great ideas proposed. I thought I would add my own perspective to it. I am from a computer programming background, so data would be a more natural word than reflections. However I also made an auxlang (Pyash) which has a vocabulary that intersected about 30k English words, left me with about 8k words to work with, in it there is no word for information, or data, however there is a word for description, belief, truth, real and knowledge. I'd like to give my axiomatic perspective of the principles on information science. 0. A belief is an independent-clause (sentence). 0a) You can call it an information packet or w/e you prefer. 1. Truth is a private belief. 1a) A person has a cluster of harmonious beliefs which form a template for sieving input. 1b) Beliefs which align with the template are "True". 1c) Beliefs which are not applicable to the template are noise or confusing. 1d) Beliefs which conflict with the template are either discarded, or the template is modified to align with them. (to avoid cognitive dissonance). 2. Knowledge consists of experienced beliefs, typically those that have been subsumed by the template. For instance "false" belief could subsume as beliefs held by an other community. 3. Real are the mutual beliefs of a community of people. 3a) By Integrated Information Theory, even protons have some consciousness. for example an atom communicates it's beliefs about it's location and frequency when probed by a photon. So the beliefs of "inanimate matter" must also be taken into consideration of what is real. The beliefs of inanimate matter, as measured by mechanical and electronic tools are typically what is described as "objective reality". 4. Dialogue is the exchange of beliefs. On 2017-10-31 10:07 AM, Krassimir Markov wrote: > Dear FIS Colleagues, > > What is the proper attitude to the ocean of the data we create and > perceive? Each of us has our own template. > The Modern Societies Every group of Infoses, > people in particular, forms a society if there is an agreement for > communication interactions. An important element of this agreement > is the availability of a common data base. Each group has their own reality (though most intersect with objective reality). > Scientists do not assume anything in advance While that may be ideal, it's difficult to achieve as each scientist has their own template of the world. > and try to make reasoning based only on repeatable and controlled > experiments. For sure, I think the scientific method is what makes science. Repeatable controlled experiments are what lead to practical innovation. > I hope, the FIS List is a scientific forum and all posts nave to be > based on repeatable and controlled experiments! For sure. So for example the above principles, can have some experiments. For the belief template, can use a toUpper function as a straw example, it will convert any input that is the lower-case ASCII range, an upper-case ASCII range, and either discard or return any other inputs, as they don't fit it's template. A more complicated function may be able to process a greater range of inputs. string.h is a community of persons that believe series of integers end in 0's. C-strings are real to them. Though there is an issue with those examples, mainly that since they are state-less feed-forward functions they aren't conscious. Perhaps you can come up with some better examples or counter-examples? > P1. Information is information, neither matter nor energy. > > M1. Information is a class of reflections in material entities. Not > every reflection is information. Only subjectively comprehended > reflections are information. I also prefer M1 here. Though I'd say that "subjectively comprehended reflections" is an example of exclusively integrated information (to use IIT terminology). - -- Logan Streondj, A dream of Gaia's future. twitter: https://twitter.com/streondj You can use encrypted email with me, how to: https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/en/ key fingerprint: BD7E 6E2A E625 6D47 F7ED 30EC 86D8 FC7C FAD7 2729 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQIwBAEBCAAaBQJZ+MPcExxzdHJlb25kakBnbWFpbC5jb20ACgkQhtj8fPrXJylr 2Q/+Jx4o4NcGLvwnYxP0RvaHpzaoIkqBZ/3oIjulsx0NXJDSpqZ6I1Ymcw8fRFTy 8/hOEMoFYc+oW6K3K+HunW8W43qmVKdng63Kupo565Dt9BWRP10LNpqCNmpRPDNh +14rPnjRRpfHuAGgU7RoWkHjZxsT5+2589i7eorRvwmPY+TuTd14DVY2SUcc/hYB lEGUsFrNVh9YZEcIgIgxMxdkAvwI326snVk7sIVaY+886FSQbN5RU058vun6Bsn0 D3j4jy9XBKi82Q7z+hY5Ysp73SASazjglkh
[Fis] Funding Idea: Unifying QIT IIT and maybe MT
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Hi All, If you are interested in spirit/soul and Information Theory, I may have an idea that could help you get funding for your research. Particularly in Hindu/Buddhist nations but maybe also in silicon valley. If you are a die-hard materialist can probably skip this thread. The basic idea is making a mathematical/theoretical framework for uploading and-or reincarnation. This could garner the whole field a lot of attention, and offer something falsifiable with practical predictive power. If unified with M-Theory it could help answer the question of "where are the other dimensions?" IDEAS Idea-one, is based on no-delete principle of Quantum Information Theory (QIT), particularly when joined with Integrated Information Theory (IIT). For example when some information is exclusively integrated in a body, then that information can't be deleted[1] as that would be a loss of entropy. Similarly if that integrated information is split, it would also lower entropy, as it would then be multiple simpler pieces of information. Thus that integrated information container (soul) would need to migrate elsewhere upon body-death. Idea-two, with M-theory we could say that it migrates to the information-world (soul-world), which is co-located with this one, but on several of those extra-dimensions M-theory says exist. While based on semi-classified time-travel data[2][3][4] one would have to conclude there are multiple dimensions of time. Based on in-between-life regression[5], one would have to conclude there is also an information-world where people's information primarily resides, only a part of it filtering into/outof any given incarnation. MARKETING Due to confirmation bias and belief perseverance this research probably couldn't be conducted at most YOLO (you only live once) institutions of the materialist, Christian or Islamic persuasion. Though once there is some initial published research, they may provide funding for disproving it. Also if you happen to be near silicon valley, can try to get funding from tech billionaires that are interested in uploading, or reincarnating into machines. PREDICTIONS One possibly prediction is if we take the no-cloning theorem of quantum information theory then could surmise that a physical attempt at a copy would not be sufficient for uploading to occur. Though perhaps the math could point to what would be sufficient. FALSIFICATION/VERIFICATION One could do FMRI scans of someone doing either an in-between-life regression or past-life regression, with a control group of people told to fabricate a story. And then can see if the same brain regions light up. If there are consistent differences, could investigate what brain regions are involved and if some kind of technological analog can be made for verifying it. Such a device if effective can then go on to be used to potentially verify M-Theory. DISCLAIMER My grasp of math is very limited. BONUS The "semi-classified" time-travel information is classified as conspiracy theory in the main stream. Based on the extreme lack of creativity is most fiction (most sci-fi consists of humans, doing contemporary stuff, with a few environmental differences), it is my hypothesis that most sources of complex information have a source. I don't know if there is any way of quantifying that, but if there was it could be an interesting pursuit. RESOURCES [1] No-deleting and no-cloning principles as consequences of conservation of quantum information <https://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0306044> [2] Philadelphia Experiment [3] Montauk Project [4] Project Pegasus [5] The Newton Institute for Life Between Lives Hypnotherapy https://www.newtoninstitute.org/ - -- Logan Streondj, A dream of Gaia's future. twitter: https://twitter.com/streondj You can use encrypted email with me, how to: https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/en/ key fingerprint: BD7E 6E2A E625 6D47 F7ED 30EC 86D8 FC7C FAD7 2729 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQIwBAEBCAAaBQJZ96boExxzdHJlb25kakBnbWFpbC5jb20ACgkQhtj8fPrXJykG Lw//S4dQxOkkIXPO/Rrr0kN+qjxaYkSDyoM7pLl+b6EKwzgMYOR/i5bCNbJiitre puOR7uifZbR+tMAUPCxYHxK08xFB8AnGVEvI/q6t6mK93Y1MCHfFIZ5vadg7zxI3 sKhGmcfMNAlw7ViMkbBD2bSV3KSEAfgV6Wzg2bnCu6aEqfS29nBavRtXQBOkHGbu vWoXUMrHEeIMFmeV2mddLOdbkksTXX5ZIeGsNtlPYZtCO8JerO9EWTyXVinrZSL2 sN37GSMQprRPso/ttc8IgtUXHFaYt2JlAMsYJvG2Kj4Bban9DmqkKmOIua5LMSdM HvCZEFZ+ATLEvIQSzKVtiA1edwrXL5vFrYlTlU6PVvshHqzA2lo3Dg7MLrx4NJdI hM8hRfJuWbmQc9u4GAAaQC+xIiUh3aYXpYeL/uEACW9KqC2Xiw5I/BRCfxBPobBE oe12BZRXzUZxM6b5sYnAYBubnEDT8j8YpZSaL+5heVq8f9VhdMbOoGTQYiwgBNyN 3cBD0Iv/isB4khMbBa8F3NPGhLIjfBGgVjfM0e0uNM0nhfCi3AOOjaHnMQv+gljO PgiTKCiGfjDj6KdBvxMaVcy5LDbY6nqAj21P09Kckgx3y7kkB+BY7eJvcoPDwB6d 5nwXdQuFmy9Ux1xuBgrwrW9peWO71W+33bgQYc1NBXfXf44= =PQgc -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
