Re: [Fis] FW: fis Digest, Vol 570, Issue 2
Bill,
if you go to
http://www.capurro.de/info5.html
you will find on p. 225 ff my interpretation of MacKay's information
concept in the context of other theories of that time
See particularly footnote 440: "Information: that which determines form"
and "that which justifies representational activity".
best
Rafael
> Dear All,
> I visited the von Foerster / Pask Cybernetics Archive in Vienna (which
> includes many MacKay texts) and went into depth related to MacKay in the
> spring of last year. It is very interesting to read his ideas about
> information as compared to the Shannon and Weaver's approach/definition.
>
> Does anyone know of a paper that systematically compares and contrasts their
> work - MacKay with S&W ? Perhaps this is yet to be done...
>
> Sincerely,
> Bill Seaman
>
> On Apr 14, 2013, at 8:24 AM, John Collier wrote:
>
>> I am afraid that it was my fault. I thought I recalled a quote, but actually
>> it is an interpretation of Mackay. Sorry about that. Amazing that it spread
>> so much, but that probably reflects that it is endemic in Mackay's work.
>>
>> John
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On
>> Behalf Of Xueshan Yan
>> Sent: 14 April 2013 10:53 AM
>> To: fis@listas.unizar.es
>> Subject: Re: [Fis] fis Digest, Vol 570, Issue 2
>>
>> Dear Pedro, Dear Joseph,
>>
>> About the Milton Keynes Conference, i.e., about DTMD definition, we saw this
>> quote long long ago, but there two different sayings: One is "Information is
>> a distinction that makes a difference" from Donald M. MacKay in his
>> "Information, Mechanism and Meaning" (1969), and another is "Information is
>> a difference that makes a difference" from Gregory Bateson in his "Steps to
>> an Ecology of Mind" (1972).
>>
>> Although I have checked it page by page in Donald M.
>> MacKay's book but can't found it, whereas it is easy to find "Information is
>> a difference that makes a difference" in Gregory Bateson's "Steps to an
>> Ecology of Mind" at page 230, 361, 339, etc., who can tell the accurate
>> priority about DTMD?
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Xueshan
>> 16:49, April 14, 2013 Peking University
>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es
>>> [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On Behalf Of
>>> fis-requ...@listas.unizar.es
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 12:00 AM
>>> To: fis@listas.unizar.es
>>> Subject: fis Digest, Vol 570, Issue 2
>>>
>>> Send fis mailing list submissions to
>>> fis@listas.unizar.es
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>
>> https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help'
>> to
>>> fis-requ...@listas.unizar.es
>>>
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>> fis-ow...@listas.unizar.es
>>>
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
>>> specific than "Re: Contents of fis digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>>1. Re: FIS News (Moscow 2013) (joe.bren...@bluewin.ch)
>>>2. Re: FIS News (Moscow 2013) (PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN
>> FERNANDEZ)
>>>3. Re: FIS News (Moscow 2013) (Gyorgy Darvas)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 17:11:58 + (GMT+00:00)
>>> From: "joe.bren...@bluewin.ch"
>>> Subject: Re: [Fis] FIS News (Moscow 2013)
>>> To: ,
>>> Message-ID:
>> <15776686.90091365786718476.javamail.webm...@bluewin.ch>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Pedro,
>>>
>>> Glad to hear from you. Your silence was, of course, expressive,
>>> containing much information . . .
>>>
>>> Now all of us will be waiting impatiently to learn about
>> the
>>> the new, exciting themes that were discussed at the Milton
>>> Keynes Conference.
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Joseph
>>>
>>> Message d'origine
>>> De: pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es
>>> Date: 12.04.2013 11:02
>>> À:
>>> Objet: [Fis] FIS News (Moscow 2013)
>>>
>>> Dear FIS Friends,
>>>
>>> Apologies for my long silence. As I have already said
>> several
>>> times, my science management duties are killing not only
>> my
>>> time but also my nerve (well, not completely!). Imagine
>> what
>>> is happening with the financing and organization of
>> Spanish
>>> science these years...
>>>
>>> Anyhow, a couple of good news about our common Information
>>> Science endeavor. First, there has been an excellent conference in
>>> Milton Keynes, organized by the Open University, about Information
>>> ("the difference that makes
>> a
>>> difference"). Quite exciting discussions on our most dear themes, and
>>> some new ones that we have rarely addressed
>> here.
>>> The organizers, a very active team indeed, are cordially invited to
>>> lead a discussion session in our FIS list to continue with the
>>> conceptual explorations addressed in
>> their
>>> conference.
>>>
>>> And t
Re: [Fis] FW: fis Digest, Vol 570, Issue 2
Dear All,
I visited the von Foerster / Pask Cybernetics Archive in Vienna (which
includes many MacKay texts) and went into depth related to MacKay in the spring
of last year. It is very interesting to read his ideas about information as
compared to the Shannon and Weaver's approach/definition.
Does anyone know of a paper that systematically compares and contrasts their
work - MacKay with S&W ? Perhaps this is yet to be done...
Sincerely,
Bill Seaman
On Apr 14, 2013, at 8:24 AM, John Collier wrote:
> I am afraid that it was my fault. I thought I recalled a quote, but actually
> it is an interpretation of Mackay. Sorry about that. Amazing that it spread
> so much, but that probably reflects that it is endemic in Mackay's work.
>
> John
>
> -Original Message-
> From: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On
> Behalf Of Xueshan Yan
> Sent: 14 April 2013 10:53 AM
> To: fis@listas.unizar.es
> Subject: Re: [Fis] fis Digest, Vol 570, Issue 2
>
> Dear Pedro, Dear Joseph,
>
> About the Milton Keynes Conference, i.e., about DTMD definition, we saw this
> quote long long ago, but there two different sayings: One is "Information is
> a distinction that makes a difference" from Donald M. MacKay in his
> "Information, Mechanism and Meaning" (1969), and another is "Information is a
> difference that makes a difference" from Gregory Bateson in his "Steps to an
> Ecology of Mind" (1972).
>
> Although I have checked it page by page in Donald M.
> MacKay's book but can't found it, whereas it is easy to find "Information is
> a difference that makes a difference" in Gregory Bateson's "Steps to an
> Ecology of Mind" at page 230, 361, 339, etc., who can tell the accurate
> priority about DTMD?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Xueshan
> 16:49, April 14, 2013 Peking University
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es
>> [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On Behalf Of
>> fis-requ...@listas.unizar.es
>> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 12:00 AM
>> To: fis@listas.unizar.es
>> Subject: fis Digest, Vol 570, Issue 2
>>
>> Send fis mailing list submissions to
>> fis@listas.unizar.es
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>
> https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help'
> to
>> fis-requ...@listas.unizar.es
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> fis-ow...@listas.unizar.es
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
>
>> specific than "Re: Contents of fis digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: FIS News (Moscow 2013) (joe.bren...@bluewin.ch)
>> 2. Re: FIS News (Moscow 2013) (PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN
> FERNANDEZ)
>> 3. Re: FIS News (Moscow 2013) (Gyorgy Darvas)
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 17:11:58 + (GMT+00:00)
>> From: "joe.bren...@bluewin.ch"
>> Subject: Re: [Fis] FIS News (Moscow 2013)
>> To: ,
>> Message-ID:
> <15776686.90091365786718476.javamail.webm...@bluewin.ch>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Pedro,
>>
>> Glad to hear from you. Your silence was, of course, expressive,
>> containing much information . . .
>>
>> Now all of us will be waiting impatiently to learn about
> the
>> the new, exciting themes that were discussed at the Milton
>
>> Keynes Conference.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>> Message d'origine
>> De: pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es
>> Date: 12.04.2013 11:02
>> À:
>> Objet: [Fis] FIS News (Moscow 2013)
>>
>> Dear FIS Friends,
>>
>> Apologies for my long silence. As I have already said
> several
>> times, my science management duties are killing not only
> my
>> time but also my nerve (well, not completely!). Imagine
> what
>> is happening with the financing and organization of
> Spanish
>> science these years...
>>
>> Anyhow, a couple of good news about our common Information
>
>> Science endeavor. First, there has been an excellent conference in
>> Milton Keynes, organized by the Open University, about Information
>> ("the difference that makes
> a
>> difference"). Quite exciting discussions on our most dear themes, and
>> some new ones that we have rarely addressed
> here.
>> The organizers, a very active team indeed, are cordially invited to
>> lead a discussion session in our FIS list to continue with the
>> conceptual explorations addressed in
> their
>> conference.
>>
>> And the second news is about an imminent FIS CONFERENCE, MOSCOW 2013,
>> the Sixth FIS, and the 1st of the ISIS organization. It will be held
>> this May, from 21 to 24 in Moscow. This time the Russian organizers
>> have followed a singular procedure, a relatively closed conference
> centered
>> in the diffusion of information science in the Russian scientific
>> community. At the time being, to my knowledge
> (I
>> could not f
[Fis] FW: fis Digest, Vol 570, Issue 2
I am afraid that it was my fault. I thought I recalled a quote, but actually it
is an interpretation of Mackay. Sorry about that. Amazing that it spread so
much, but that probably reflects that it is endemic in Mackay's work.
John
-Original Message-
From: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On
Behalf Of Xueshan Yan
Sent: 14 April 2013 10:53 AM
To: fis@listas.unizar.es
Subject: Re: [Fis] fis Digest, Vol 570, Issue 2
Dear Pedro, Dear Joseph,
About the Milton Keynes Conference, i.e., about DTMD definition, we saw this
quote long long ago, but there two different sayings: One is "Information is a
distinction that makes a difference" from Donald M. MacKay in his "Information,
Mechanism and Meaning" (1969), and another is "Information is a difference that
makes a difference" from Gregory Bateson in his "Steps to an Ecology of Mind"
(1972).
Although I have checked it page by page in Donald M.
MacKay's book but can't found it, whereas it is easy to find "Information is a
difference that makes a difference" in Gregory Bateson's "Steps to an Ecology
of Mind" at page 230, 361, 339, etc., who can tell the accurate priority about
DTMD?
Best wishes,
Xueshan
16:49, April 14, 2013 Peking University
> -Original Message-
> From: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es
> [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On Behalf Of
> fis-requ...@listas.unizar.es
> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 12:00 AM
> To: fis@listas.unizar.es
> Subject: fis Digest, Vol 570, Issue 2
>
> Send fis mailing list submissions to
> fis@listas.unizar.es
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>
https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help'
to
> fis-requ...@listas.unizar.es
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> fis-ow...@listas.unizar.es
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
> specific than "Re: Contents of fis digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Re: FIS News (Moscow 2013) (joe.bren...@bluewin.ch)
>2. Re: FIS News (Moscow 2013) (PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN
FERNANDEZ)
>3. Re: FIS News (Moscow 2013) (Gyorgy Darvas)
>
>
>
--
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 17:11:58 + (GMT+00:00)
> From: "joe.bren...@bluewin.ch"
> Subject: Re: [Fis] FIS News (Moscow 2013)
> To: ,
> Message-ID:
<15776686.90091365786718476.javamail.webm...@bluewin.ch>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Pedro,
>
> Glad to hear from you. Your silence was, of course, expressive,
> containing much information . . .
>
> Now all of us will be waiting impatiently to learn about
the
> the new, exciting themes that were discussed at the Milton
> Keynes Conference.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Joseph
>
> Message d'origine
> De: pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es
> Date: 12.04.2013 11:02
> À:
> Objet: [Fis] FIS News (Moscow 2013)
>
> Dear FIS Friends,
>
> Apologies for my long silence. As I have already said
several
> times, my science management duties are killing not only
my
> time but also my nerve (well, not completely!). Imagine
what
> is happening with the financing and organization of
Spanish
> science these years...
>
> Anyhow, a couple of good news about our common Information
> Science endeavor. First, there has been an excellent conference in
> Milton Keynes, organized by the Open University, about Information
> ("the difference that makes
a
> difference"). Quite exciting discussions on our most dear themes, and
> some new ones that we have rarely addressed
here.
> The organizers, a very active team indeed, are cordially invited to
> lead a discussion session in our FIS list to continue with the
> conceptual explorations addressed in
their
> conference.
>
> And the second news is about an imminent FIS CONFERENCE, MOSCOW 2013,
> the Sixth FIS, and the 1st of the ISIS organization. It will be held
> this May, from 21 to 24 in Moscow. This time the Russian organizers
> have followed a singular procedure, a relatively closed conference
centered
> in the diffusion of information science in the Russian scientific
> community. At the time being, to my knowledge
(I
> could not follow very well the process), only the members
of
> the ISIS board have been enlisted as foreign participants.
> But given that there will be several absences, interested
FIS
> parties might ask about their possible participation.
> The schedule is too tight for travels, visas etc, and
again I
> have to apologize for not having posted this info before (info glut!).
> In any case, am sure that our colleague Konstantin Kolin (
> koli...@mail.ru ), leading organizer,
and
> member of the Russian Academy of Science, will be happy to
> respond to interested parties and help them to accelerate
the process.
>
> Best wishes to all
>
> ---Pedro
>
> -
> Pedro C. Marijuán
> Grupo
