Re: [Fis] POSTS ON TERRY' S BOOK - PRESENTED BY DEACON
Dear Gordana, Hector and colleagues, I keep thinking that the theme of absences is really fundamental for advancing the foundations of information science, but I am disappointed by the way Terry has oriented the book. Both style and contents are inadequate for my taste. He continues to do what he did in previous papers, highly promising ones (as some parties discussed in past messages we had in the list); pointing to exciting new absential aspects but finally focusing in the physical ones (without much new enlightenment). In my opinion the most appropriate direction to advance an absential calculus of sorts is the language of SYMMETRY. Several parties in this list have already discussed the theme (me included). Symmetry breaking and symmetry restoration and related formal tools are the way to tackle the absential dimension in the genuine informational entities: cells, nervous systems, societies (and the vacuum!!). To reiterate that the fundamental point is not about computation, but about self-construction. Those absences refer to gaps, functional voids in the self-construction cycles/processes of those entities --there might be 'natural computation' associated, eg, in cellular signaling systems, but finally the ruling aspect is about self-maintenance and reproduction. We could also enlist McLuhan in this critical position regarding the physicalist-computationalist interpretations, I think. So, after a glance in the whole book, I am now in the detailed reading of Chapter 4, with mounting disappointment... Incomplete Book!! Deeper exploration needed!! best ---Pedro Gordana Dodig-Crnkovic escribió: Dear Hector, This might be a good way, Terry Deacon presenting his book: http://fora.tv/2012/04/18/Incomplete_Nature_How_Mind_Emerged_From_Matter What I find fascinating with this book is the whole dynamical framework, from thermodynamics, to morphodynamics and teleodynamics. See also: http://www.american.edu/cas/economics/info-metrics/pdf/upload/Beavers-Oct-2011-presentation.pdf For sure, Deacon is not computationalist and his ideas of information and computation are pretty classical ones. But it does not matter in this context. For a computationalist all three kinds of dynamics are computational processes, and corresponding structures are informational structures. With best wishes, Gordana -Original Message- From: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On Behalf Of Hector Zenil Sent: den 27 april 2012 22:40 To: Pedro C. Marijuan Cc: fis@listas.unizar.es Subject: Re: [Fis] POSTS ON TERRY' S BOOK Could someone summarize why Terrence Deacon's book is such a presumed breakthrough judging by the buzz it has generated among FIS enthusiasts? Thanks. On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Pedro C. Marijuan pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es wrote: Dear colleagues, Krassimir Markov's suggestion is excellent. Next year we could have a FIS conference in his place, centered in the exploration of the new info avenue drafted by Terrence Deacon's book, and started by Stuart Kauffman and others. Previously my suggestion is that we have a regular discussion session (like the many ones had in this list). A couple of voluntary chairs, and an opening text would be needed. Sure Bob Logan could handle this (perhaps off list) and we would have a fresh discussion session for the coming months. Technical Note: the current messages are not entering in the list; the filter is rejecting them as there are too many addresses together. Please, send the fis address single, and all the others separated or as as Cc. Otherwise I will have to enter them one by one. best ---Pedro (fis list coordination) - Pedro C. Marijuán Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud Avda. Gómez Laguna, 25, Pl. 11ª 50009 Zaragoza, Spain Telf: 34 976 71 3526 ( 6818) Fax: 34 976 71 5554 pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ - ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis -- - Pedro C. Marijuán Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud Avda. Gómez Laguna, 25, Pl. 11ª 50009 Zaragoza, Spain Telf: 34 976 71 3526 ( 6818) Fax: 34 976 71 5554 pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ - ___ fis mailing list fis
Re: [Fis] POSTS ON TERRY' S BOOK - PRESENTED BY DEACON
Dear colleagues, Differently from The Symbolic Species, Incomplete Nature is too naturalistic for my taste. It seems to me that the incompleteness and absences are consequential to selection mechanisms operating. Selections can operate recursively and lead to hyper-selection, trajectory formation (some selections can be selected for stabilization), or regime formation (some stabilizations can be selected for globalization). Adding reflection to systems (such as in symbolic species) adds layers of selection; for example, by distinguishing between meaning-processing and information-processing. Selection mechanisms can only be hypothesized (as genotypical to systems). A naturalistic approach will not capture this knowledge-based layer of discursive selections, in my opinion. Perhaps, I missed the message. Best wishes, Loet _ Loet Leydesdorff Professor, University of Amsterdam Amsterdam School of Communications Research (ASCoR), Kloveniersburgwal 48, 1012 CX Amsterdam. Tel.: +31-20- 525 6598; fax: +31-842239111 l...@leydesdorff.net mailto:l...@leydesdorff.net ; http://www.leydesdorff.net/ ; http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYJ http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYJhl=en hl=en From: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On Behalf Of Pedro C. Marijuan Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 11:35 AM To: Gordana Dodig-Crnkovic Cc: fis@listas.unizar.es Subject: Re: [Fis] POSTS ON TERRY' S BOOK - PRESENTED BY DEACON Dear Gordana, Hector and colleagues, I keep thinking that the theme of absences is really fundamental for advancing the foundations of information science, but I am disappointed by the way Terry has oriented the book. Both style and contents are inadequate for my taste. He continues to do what he did in previous papers, highly promising ones (as some parties discussed in past messages we had in the list); pointing to exciting new absential aspects but finally focusing in the physical ones (without much new enlightenment). In my opinion the most appropriate direction to advance an absential calculus of sorts is the language of SYMMETRY. Several parties in this list have already discussed the theme (me included). Symmetry breaking and symmetry restoration and related formal tools are the way to tackle the absential dimension in the genuine informational entities: cells, nervous systems, societies (and the vacuum!!). To reiterate that the fundamental point is not about computation, but about self-construction. Those absences refer to gaps, functional voids in the self-construction cycles/processes of those entities --there might be 'natural computation' associated, eg, in cellular signaling systems, but finally the ruling aspect is about self-maintenance and reproduction. We could also enlist McLuhan in this critical position regarding the physicalist-computationalist interpretations, I think. So, after a glance in the whole book, I am now in the detailed reading of Chapter 4, with mounting disappointment... Incomplete Book!! Deeper exploration needed!! best ---Pedro Gordana Dodig-Crnkovic escribió: Dear Hector, This might be a good way, Terry Deacon presenting his book: http://fora.tv/2012/04/18/Incomplete_Nature_How_Mind_Emerged_From_Matter What I find fascinating with this book is the whole dynamical framework, from thermodynamics, to morphodynamics and teleodynamics. See also: http://www.american.edu/cas/economics/info-metrics/pdf/upload/Beavers-Oct-20 11-presentation.pdf For sure, Deacon is not computationalist and his ideas of information and computation are pretty classical ones. But it does not matter in this context. For a computationalist all three kinds of dynamics are computational processes, and corresponding structures are informational structures. With best wishes, Gordana -Original Message- From: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On Behalf Of Hector Zenil Sent: den 27 april 2012 22:40 To: Pedro C. Marijuan Cc: fis@listas.unizar.es Subject: Re: [Fis] POSTS ON TERRY' S BOOK Could someone summarize why Terrence Deacon's book is such a presumed breakthrough judging by the buzz it has generated among FIS enthusiasts? Thanks. On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Pedro C. Marijuan mailto:pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es wrote: Dear colleagues, Krassimir Markov's suggestion is excellent. Next year we could have a FIS conference in his place, centered in the exploration of the new info avenue drafted by Terrence Deacon's book, and started by Stuart Kauffman and others. Previously my suggestion is that we have a regular discussion session (like the many ones had in this list). A couple of voluntary chairs, and an opening text would be needed. Sure Bob Logan could handle this (perhaps off list) and we would have a fresh discussion session for the coming months. Technical Note: the current messages
Re: [Fis] POSTS ON TERRY' S BOOK - PRESENTED BY DEACON
Dear Gordana, Pedro ans FIS colleagues, Now I am too busy with the summer conferences and have no time to explain in deep what I think about Terry’s book. Shortly I can say that many already clear phenomena in the book are presented as “just invented or to be invented”. At the first place the idea of “constraint” which is well know phenomena of valences and processes of resolving them. Yes, Pedro, the “symmetry” is the right way because it closely correlate with well known “reflection” :-) And from many years there exist “Theory of reverberation” concerned to it. The conference is just the place where we may discuss all ideas. Friendly regards Krassimir From: Gordana Dodig-Crnkovic Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 1:08 PM To: Pedro C. Marijuan Cc: fis@listas.unizar.es Subject: Re: [Fis] POSTS ON TERRY' S BOOK - PRESENTED BY DEACON Dear Pedro, I am sure that Terry Deacon would agree with you – the book is incomplete, and it leaves host of open questions. But that is what makes it attractive. It is a book that moves and provokes thoughts. So the idea to organize a conference about Incomplete Nature is a very good idea. All the best, Gordana Dr Dr Gordana Dodig Crnkovic, Associate Professor School of Innovation, Design and Engineering Mälardalen University Sweden http://www.mrtc.mdh.se/~gdc/ Organizer of the Symposium on Natural/Unconventional Computing, the Turing Centenary World Congress of AISB/IACAP https://sites.google.com/site/naturalcomputingaisbiacap2012 From: Pedro C. Marijuan [mailto:pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es] Sent: den 4 maj 2012 11:35 To: Gordana Dodig-Crnkovic Cc: Hector Zenil; fis@listas.unizar.es Subject: Re: [Fis] POSTS ON TERRY' S BOOK - PRESENTED BY DEACON Dear Gordana, Hector and colleagues, I keep thinking that the theme of absences is really fundamental for advancing the foundations of information science, but I am disappointed by the way Terry has oriented the book. Both style and contents are inadequate for my taste. He continues to do what he did in previous papers, highly promising ones (as some parties discussed in past messages we had in the list); pointing to exciting new absential aspects but finally focusing in the physical ones (without much new enlightenment). In my opinion the most appropriate direction to advance an absential calculus of sorts is the language of SYMMETRY. Several parties in this list have already discussed the theme (me included). Symmetry breaking and symmetry restoration and related formal tools are the way to tackle the absential dimension in the genuine informational entities: cells, nervous systems, societies (and the vacuum!!). To reiterate that the fundamental point is not about computation, but about self-construction. Those absences refer to gaps, functional voids in the self-construction cycles/processes of those entities --there might be 'natural computation' associated, eg, in cellular signaling systems, but finally the ruling aspect is about self-maintenance and reproduction. We could also enlist McLuhan in this critical position regarding the physicalist-computationalist interpretations, I think. So, after a glance in the whole book, I am now in the detailed reading of Chapter 4, with mounting disappointment... Incomplete Book!! Deeper exploration needed!! best ---Pedro Gordana Dodig-Crnkovic escribió: Dear Hector, This might be a good way, Terry Deacon presenting his book:http://fora.tv/2012/04/18/Incomplete_Nature_How_Mind_Emerged_From_Matter What I find fascinating with this book is the whole dynamical framework,from thermodynamics, to morphodynamics and teleodynamics.See also: http://www.american.edu/cas/economics/info-metrics/pdf/upload/Beavers-Oct-2011-presentation.pdf For sure, Deacon is not computationalist and his ideas of information and computation are pretty classical ones.But it does not matter in this context. For a computationalist all three kinds of dynamics are computational processes,and corresponding structures are informational structures. With best wishes,Gordana -Original Message-From: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On Behalf Of Hector ZenilSent: den 27 april 2012 22:40To: Pedro C. MarijuanCc: fis@listas.unizar.esSubject: Re: [Fis] POSTS ON TERRY' S BOOK Could someone summarize why Terrence Deacon's book is such a presumedbreakthrough judging by the buzz it has generated among FISenthusiasts? Thanks. On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Pedro C. Marijuanmailto:pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es wrote: Dear colleagues, Krassimir Markov's suggestion is excellent. Next year we could have aFIS conference in his place, centered in the exploration of the new infoavenue drafted by Terrence Deacon's book, and started by Stuart Kauffmanand others. Previously my suggestion is that we have a regulardiscussion session (like
Re: [Fis] POSTS ON TERRY' S BOOK - PRESENTED BY DEACON
On 04 May 2012, at 11:35, Pedro C. Marijuan wrote: Dear Gordana, Hector and colleagues, I keep thinking that the theme of absences is really fundamental for advancing the foundations of information science, but I am disappointed by the way Terry has oriented the book. Both style and contents are inadequate for my taste. He continues to do what he did in previous papers, highly promising ones (as some parties discussed in past messages we had in the list); pointing to exciting new absential aspects but finally focusing in the physical ones (without much new enlightenment). In my opinion the most appropriate direction to advance an absential calculus of sorts is the language of SYMMETRY. Several parties in this list have already discussed the theme (me included). Symmetry breaking and symmetry restoration and related formal tools are the way to tackle the absential dimension in the genuine informational entities: cells, nervous systems, societies (and the vacuum!!). To reiterate that the fundamental point is not about computation, but about self-construction. Those absences refer to gaps, functional voids in the self-construction cycles/processes of those entities --there might be 'natural computation' associated, eg, in cellular signaling systems, but finally the ruling aspect is about self-maintenance and reproduction. We could also enlist McLuhan in this critical position regarding the physicalist-computationalist interpretations, I think. I dare to insist that computationalism and physicalism are in complete opposition. If computationalism is correct then physicalism is provably false, and if physicalism is correct then computationalism is provably false. The widespread confusion between materialism and mechanism (or physicalism and computationalism) arises from a reductionist view on the machines themselves. -- Bruno Marchal So, after a glance in the whole book, I am now in the detailed reading of Chapter 4, with mounting disappointment... Incomplete Book!! Deeper exploration needed!! best ---Pedro Gordana Dodig-Crnkovic escribió: Dear Hector, This might be a good way, Terry Deacon presenting his book: http://fora.tv/2012/04/18/Incomplete_Nature_How_Mind_Emerged_From_Matter What I find fascinating with this book is the whole dynamical framework, from thermodynamics, to morphodynamics and teleodynamics. See also: http://www.american.edu/cas/economics/info-metrics/pdf/upload/Beavers-Oct-2011-presentation.pdf For sure, Deacon is not computationalist and his ideas of information and computation are pretty classical ones. But it does not matter in this context. For a computationalist all three kinds of dynamics are computational processes, and corresponding structures are informational structures. With best wishes, Gordana -Original Message- From: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es ] On Behalf Of Hector Zenil Sent: den 27 april 2012 22:40 To: Pedro C. Marijuan Cc: fis@listas.unizar.es Subject: Re: [Fis] POSTS ON TERRY' S BOOK Could someone summarize why Terrence Deacon's book is such a presumed breakthrough judging by the buzz it has generated among FIS enthusiasts? Thanks. On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Pedro C. Marijuan pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es wrote: Dear colleagues, Krassimir Markov's suggestion is excellent. Next year we could have a FIS conference in his place, centered in the exploration of the new info avenue drafted by Terrence Deacon's book, and started by Stuart Kauffman and others. Previously my suggestion is that we have a regular discussion session (like the many ones had in this list). A couple of voluntary chairs, and an opening text would be needed. Sure Bob Logan could handle this (perhaps off list) and we would have a fresh discussion session for the coming months. Technical Note: the current messages are not entering in the list; the filter is rejecting them as there are too many addresses together. Please, send the fis address single, and all the others separated or as as Cc. Otherwise I will have to enter them one by one. best ---Pedro (fis list coordination) - Pedro C. Marijuán Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud Avda. Gómez Laguna, 25, Pl. 11ª 50009 Zaragoza, Spain Telf: 34 976 71 3526 ( 6818) Fax: 34 976 71 5554 pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ - ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https
[Fis] POSTS ON TERRY' S BOOK - PRESENTED BY DEACON
Dear Hector, This might be a good way, Terry Deacon presenting his book: http://fora.tv/2012/04/18/Incomplete_Nature_How_Mind_Emerged_From_Matter What I find fascinating with this book is the whole dynamical framework, from thermodynamics, to morphodynamics and teleodynamics. See also: http://www.american.edu/cas/economics/info-metrics/pdf/upload/Beavers-Oct-2011-presentation.pdf For sure, Deacon is not computationalist and his ideas of information and computation are pretty classical ones. But it does not matter in this context. For a computationalist all three kinds of dynamics are computational processes, and corresponding structures are informational structures. With best wishes, Gordana -Original Message- From: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On Behalf Of Hector Zenil Sent: den 27 april 2012 22:40 To: Pedro C. Marijuan Cc: fis@listas.unizar.es Subject: Re: [Fis] POSTS ON TERRY' S BOOK Could someone summarize why Terrence Deacon's book is such a presumed breakthrough judging by the buzz it has generated among FIS enthusiasts? Thanks. On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Pedro C. Marijuan pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es wrote: Dear colleagues, Krassimir Markov's suggestion is excellent. Next year we could have a FIS conference in his place, centered in the exploration of the new info avenue drafted by Terrence Deacon's book, and started by Stuart Kauffman and others. Previously my suggestion is that we have a regular discussion session (like the many ones had in this list). A couple of voluntary chairs, and an opening text would be needed. Sure Bob Logan could handle this (perhaps off list) and we would have a fresh discussion session for the coming months. Technical Note: the current messages are not entering in the list; the filter is rejecting them as there are too many addresses together. Please, send the fis address single, and all the others separated or as as Cc. Otherwise I will have to enter them one by one. best ---Pedro (fis list coordination) - Pedro C. Marijuán Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud Avda. Gómez Laguna, 25, Pl. 11ª 50009 Zaragoza, Spain Telf: 34 976 71 3526 ( 6818) Fax: 34 976 71 5554 pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ - ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
Re: [Fis] POSTS ON TERRY' S BOOK
Dear Colleagues, On 27 Apr 2012, at 23:32, Steven Ericsson-Zenith wrote: Dear Hector, What, exactly, is your objection to it[Terrence Deacon's book]? It's anti-reductionism (that I would object to also) or it's claim that Turing computation is insufficient (to which I have no objection)? Turing computation is provably insufficient to define the truth, and many other things, about ... the Turing machine's themselves. So the expression Turing computation is insufficient is ambiguous. My very basic objection to Deacon's idea is that if we assume mechanism, i.e. the idea that the brain (or some generalization of it) is Turing emulable, then mind cannot emerge from matter, but matter has to emerge from the mind, itself emerging from number relations. So matter does not emerge from the human mind, but from all number's mind. Number's mind can be defined by what number's do, relatively to a universal number. A universal numbers is basically a relative code of a computer. If phi_i is a fixed enumeration of the partial recursive functions, a number u is universal if phi_u(x,y) = phi_x(y), with (x,y) some fixed bijection from NxN to N (N is the set of natural numbers). Note that an expression like ph_i(j) = k, can be entirely stated in elementary (first order) arithmetic. In particular the existence of universal number is a theorem of arithmetic. The generality of the notion of universal needs Church's thesis (or equivalent one by Turing or Post). So, with the digital mechanist thesis, computer science and information sciences appears to be more fundamental than the physical sciences, and this in a constructive way: you can derive physics from (intensional) number theory. This makes the computationalist theory scientific, that is empirically refutable. The logic of the observable propositions has already been derived, (accepting comp + the classical theory of knowledge) and up to now, it fits rather well with quantum logic, although it is still an open problem if we can derive the existence of quantum computing in our neighborhood. I have often heard of rumors that a flaw has been found in the derivation, but usually, when I succeeded to get such claims communicated, it contains elementary error in logic and/or computer science (if not crackpot statement like the assertion that the mind- body problem is solved, which I do no more try to debunk). The result can be shocking for fundamentalist Aristotelians, obviously, who believe dogmatically in Aristotle metaphysical notion of *primary* matter, and have developed a tradition to put the mind- body problem (or the first-person/third person relation problem) under the rug. On the contrary, it should please, I think, to people open to the idea that reality might be more informational than substantial. I have begun some explanations here, notably from posts by Loet and Robin, but it is a bit hard to do this, with the two posts per week rule, and I suggest, if interested, to read the paper I have referred too, and which can be downloaded from my url (see below). You can then ask any question on the everything list, or on the FOAR list, where its is currently explained, and where I take time to debunk or correct arguments, and with some luck I can ameliorate the exposition, or correct minor flaws (see below). So if you study the papers, and have any question, it might be simpler to address them there. But if there is no flaw, it is necessarily matter and physics which emerges from the mind, and not the contrary. Like with Everett QM, the theory explains very well why it *looks* different. Its main weakness is that it leads to complex open problem in number theory and computer science. Of course, all this does not prevent Terry's book to contain very interesting remarks and analyses, and my critics here bears only on his most fundamental preconception. Sincere respects, - Bruno Marchal PS: A short but complete paper: http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/publications/SANE2004MARCHALAbstract.html FOAR mailing list: http://groups.google.com/group/foar?hl=en Dr. Steven Ericsson-Zenith Institute for Advanced Science Engineering http://iase.info On Apr 27, 2012, at 1:39 PM, Hector Zenil wrote: Could someone summarize why Terrence Deacon's book is such a presumed breakthrough judging by the buzz it has generated among FIS enthusiasts? Thanks. On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Pedro C. Marijuan pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es wrote: Dear colleagues, Krassimir Markov's suggestion is excellent. Next year we could have a FIS conference in his place, centered in the exploration of the new info avenue drafted by Terrence Deacon's book, and started by Stuart Kauffman and others. Previously my suggestion is that we have a regular discussion session (like the many ones had in this list). A couple of voluntary chairs,
[Fis] POSTS ON TERRY' S BOOK
Dear colleagues, Krassimir Markov's suggestion is excellent. Next year we could have a FIS conference in his place, centered in the exploration of the new info avenue drafted by Terrence Deacon's book, and started by Stuart Kauffman and others. Previously my suggestion is that we have a regular discussion session (like the many ones had in this list). A couple of voluntary chairs, and an opening text would be needed. Sure Bob Logan could handle this (perhaps off list) and we would have a fresh discussion session for the coming months. Technical Note: the current messages are not entering in the list; the filter is rejecting them as there are too many addresses together. Please, send the fis address single, and all the others separated or as as Cc. Otherwise I will have to enter them one by one. best ---Pedro (fis list coordination) - Pedro C. Marijuán Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud Avda. Gómez Laguna, 25, Pl. 11ª 50009 Zaragoza, Spain Telf: 34 976 71 3526 ( 6818) Fax: 34 976 71 5554 pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ - ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
