A big +1 for the Head Start Design Patterns book.
A must read for anyone wanting to write clean functional code. Saves
days of reinventing poorly crafted wheels.
Ron
Bob Wohl wrote:
This thread has been a good read. Over the years I've been tasked to write
multiple server languages and I've
Thank you for that, it was very interesting.
It was certainly faster for those operations.
opcodes which aren't available in AS3
It doesn't seem possible that those opcodes, for direct memory access,
are not used by Adobe.
Why would that be?
John
Meinte van't Kruis wrote:
Joa Ebert's
sandbox? Am guessing direct memory access maybe disallowed because
people could try to exploit buffer overflows...
John McCormack wrote:
Thank you for that, it was very interesting.
It was certainly faster for those operations.
opcodes which aren't available in AS3
It doesn't seem possible
Glen Pike wrote:
sandbox? Am guessing direct memory access maybe disallowed because
people could try to exploit buffer overflows...
You think that they honestly allows unbounded random memory access? They
don't. It is restricted to the reservated memory area.
It looks as if the memory is protected anyway, according to:
http://ncannasse.fr/blog/adobe_alchemy ...
As a reminder, the Alchemy pipeline is the following : .c file *-*
LLVM intermediate bytecode *-* AVM2 bytecode
However, in general, doing so reduces a lot the performances. Especially
since
John McCormack wrote:
It looks as if the memory is protected anyway, according to:
http://ncannasse.fr/blog/adobe_alchemy ...
As a reminder, the Alchemy pipeline is the following : .c file *-*
LLVM intermediate bytecode *-* AVM2 bytecode
However, in general, doing so reduces a lot the
So the performance gains will end up in AS3, sometime:
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Alchemy:FAQ
Why can't the ActionScript compiler generate byte code that executes as
quickly as Alchemy?
Compiling with LLVM tools (included as part of Alchemy) allows compile
and link time
I was also thinking in the lines of alchemy, and the amazing stuff people
pull of using that.
Seeing the whole apparat project of Joa Ebert or the stuff Nicolas Cannasse
pulls off...
When reading about that, I think a bit of a c++ or even assembler knowledge
would've
helped a great deal, since
Now there's something for flash to aspire to, yeah?
Becoming an assembly language and browser language in one.
Would help with the whole iphone thing wouldn't it? lol
Speed and performance wise i mean. Becoming a semi-native language.
if they do that and say AS4 becomes a assembly+ language,
Meinte van't Kruis wrote:
Seeing the whole apparat project of Joa Ebert or the stuff Nicolas Cannasse
Are their projects available to see?
implementing some alchemy to speed things up.
As far as I understand it, the C++ code is still converted into Flash's
byte codes, so any performance
Joa Ebert's apparat can be found here:
http://blog.joa-ebert.com/2009/08/11/apparat-is-now-open-source/
http://blog.joa-ebert.com/2009/08/11/apparat-is-now-open-source/As far as
Cannassa is concerned, he is best known for Haxe, which uses alchemy opcodes
here and
there(with his flash.memory
alchemy is only good if you don't need to pass information back and forth
from AS3 to C alot of times.
So for instance, you would want to keep processing as long as you can within
alchemy, before passing
it back to AS3. A good example is JPEG encoding (and decoding done by
ByteArray.org), where
Dave Watts wrote:
Perhaps you can explain how AS3 is narrow. For years Pascal was THE
language to learn programming then eventually it migrated to Java and I
don't consider AS3 to be a limited language or narrow in it's outlook. I
think it's rather a good and accessible first language to learn.
Duly noted. I dont think I am so much worried that I should know C#
in order to know or learn AS3, but more,
if I do take on C#, that I can incorporate my skills and be able to
expand beyond the barriers so-to-speak
as a flash developer and programer. Also, because I am told that they
are
Karl DeSaulniers wrote:
Duly noted. I dont think I am so much worried that I should know C# in
order to know or learn AS3, but more,
if I do take on C#, that I can incorporate my skills and be able to
expand beyond the barriers so-to-speak
as a flash developer and programer. Also, because I am
I'd say, learn a lower-level language. I've worked with some guys with an
assembly and c++ background, and they really knew how to squeeze the last
drops of performance out of a flash app.
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 11:11 AM, Paul Andrews p...@ipauland.com wrote:
Karl DeSaulniers wrote:
Duly
Taka Kojima wrote:
it's not necessarily the language that makes a developer, it's the conceptual
understanding of everything else, design patterns, syntax, best practices,
I would agree with that.
What 2nd language to choose depends upon what you aim to do...
I program in C++ for my own
Meinte van't Kruis wrote:
I'd say, learn a lower-level language. I've worked with some guys with an
assembly and c++ background, and they really knew how to squeeze the last
drops of performance out of a flash app.
That's far less of a concern for most Flash applications and faster
The people (like me) that have passed through the assembly and C++
route have done so not as a way to become better AS3 developers but
because our situations required that we program assembler and C++.
Those skills help us with AS3 but aren't an efficient route to take.
Don't go there.
Dave Watts wrote:
So would you say it would be advantageous for aspiring Flash programers to
learn C#?
Or leave it alone, not needed? I hear they are very similar as well.
I was wondering what the benefits would be.
AS3 and C# are very similar, yes.
I think it's advantageous for aspiring
Interesting. I have heard of haXe but never investigated.
Thanks,
Karl
On Jan 4, 2010, at 5:59 PM, Ron Wheeler wrote:
Dave Watts wrote:
So would you say it would be advantageous for aspiring Flash
programers to
learn C#?
Or leave it alone, not needed? I hear they are very similar as well.
Glen Pike wrote:
You do something wrong in C / C++ you could end up with a BSOD, or a
broken CD Writer (ahem).
Sorry, the (ahem) made me laugh!
I got into Flash ActionScript because it was the fastest and easiest
way of getting something to show on the screen
Yep.
I hated Visual Studio
I
Paul Andrews wrote:
Dave Watts wrote:
Perhaps you can explain how AS3 is narrow. For years Pascal was THE
language to learn programming then eventually it migrated to Java
and I
don't consider AS3 to be a limited language or narrow in it's
outlook. I
think it's rather a good and accessible
Actually, I think performance should be on top of the priority list for any
Flash developer.
Unresponsive flash apps are the number one irritation imho.
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 12:19 PM, Paul Andrews p...@ipauland.com wrote:
Meinte van't Kruis wrote:
I'd say, learn a lower-level language. I've
Meinte van't Kruis wrote:
Actually, I think performance should be on top of the priority list for any
Flash developer.
Unresponsive flash apps are the number one irritation imho.
LOL, I have yet to write one and I have yet to use any techniques from
my assembler or C++ days. In most cases
I think Adobe is rather missing a trick in not having a stand-alone version
of Actionscript.
Really? AS3 is really just an environment-specific implementation of
the latest JS specifications, along with class libraries that make
sense in Flash Player. I don't think it really brings anything to
Also, because I am told that they are similar, will it may make it easier to
learn
C# if I already know AS3?
I found it easier to learn AS3, knowing some C# and Java - all three
are quite similar, although I think C# is a little more like AS3 than
Java is.
Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
This thread has been a good read. Over the years I've been tasked to write
multiple server languages and I've learned a great deal from that. PHP, ASP,
.NET, Java and now Grails. I haven't mastered any of them but I can
understand them, write them and do it correctly. I suppose my next language
Glen Pike wrote:
Slightly OT, but how many guys here can do AS3 C++?
The other interesting thing would be to find out if you did AS3 or C++
first. I am betting the older guys learnt C++ first, but again, I might be
wrong.
I'm one of those older guys who learned C++ first. Well,
So would you say it would be advantageous for aspiring Flash
programers to learn C#?
Or leave it alone, not needed? I hear they are very similar as well.
I was wondering what the benefits would be.
Karl
On Jan 4, 2010, at 4:20 PM, Kerry Thompson wrote:
Glen Pike wrote:
Slightly OT, but
So would you say it would be advantageous for aspiring Flash programers to
learn C#?
Or leave it alone, not needed? I hear they are very similar as well.
I was wondering what the benefits would be.
AS3 and C# are very similar, yes.
I think it's advantageous for aspiring programmers to learn
: [Flashcoders] hen's teeth...
So would you say it would be advantageous for aspiring Flash programers to
learn C#?
Or leave it alone, not needed? I hear they are very similar as well.
I was wondering what the benefits would be.
AS3 and C# are very similar, yes.
I think it's advantageous
Anybody I know that I consider good at programming in a certain language, is
proficient in at least 2 other languages as well... kinda goes without
saying, but most programmers do know more than one language. After all, it's
not necessarily the language that makes a developer, it's the conceptual
Dave Watts wrote:
So would you say it would be advantageous for aspiring Flash programers to
learn C#?
Or leave it alone, not needed? I hear they are very similar as well.
I was wondering what the benefits would be.
I would get comfortable with AS3 and programming in general before
I would get comfortable with AS3 and programming in general before
attempting to tackle a second language.
I don't really agree with this. Learning a domain-specific language
like AS3 teaches a fairly narrow view of programming and how it works.
It's always useful to learn other languages,
When you say domain specific, do you mean the difference between
viewing on the web vs. viewing in an application?
I know C# is an application language. You can not use PHP in
constructing an application? Is this what you mean by domain specific?
Karl
On Jan 4, 2010, at 5:31 PM, Dave Watts
When you say domain specific, do you mean the difference between viewing on
the web vs. viewing in an application?
I know C# is an application language. You can not use PHP in constructing an
application? Is this what you mean by domain specific?
I mean that a domain-specific programming
Dave Watts wrote:
I would get comfortable with AS3 and programming in general before
attempting to tackle a second language.
I don't really agree with this. Learning a domain-specific language
like AS3 teaches a fairly narrow view of programming and how it works.
Perhaps you can
but I got Colins book for Christmas :)) and a 12 yr. old Chivas Regal to sit
down with ;)
Chivas and coding don't mix well! At least, not in my own experience.
Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
Perhaps you can explain how AS3 is narrow. For years Pascal was THE
language to learn programming then eventually it migrated to Java and I
don't consider AS3 to be a limited language or narrow in it's outlook. I
think it's rather a good and accessible first language to learn.
AS3 is designed
I started with ActionScript and learned some PHP along the way. I found PHP
pretty simple to learn but I always found it tedious to work with. I
eventually picked up Ruby and really fell in love with it. The concepts were
easy to learn coming from an AS background.
Recently I've started to learn
I'm thinking your probably right though, the hangover may kill me.
Just make sure you sip it, right.
I just meant that it is going to be a long night when I do get started.
Karl
On Jan 4, 2010, at 6:41 PM, Dave Watts wrote:
but I got Colins book for Christmas :)) and a 12 yr. old Chivas
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