Re: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash

[stefano]

Sorry for my intromission but...

I can't understand why you are thinking about a "clash"...As stated by some
authors, AJAX is nothing more than a summing up of different technology (i
guess that for some extent It can be called up as an architecture) therefore
I think there is "room" for flash and whatever else (it mainly depends upon
what you have to do, your goals, aims, etc etc)...

...I guess a good starting point for ajax is backbase.com (there is a
community edition if you wanna try out some ajax flavour)...

...just take a look to understand better...It is what I am doing
actually...that means...Can i gain something functional to my aims knowing
the way ajax works and is implemented? How can i come up with something
"public catching" and useful putting together the stuff I Know and the whole
of open standards around the web (content in its varying forms)...

...Still can't understand why many people around are so
flash-frightened...(some argue about excessive cpu usage...but...are they
talking about ads? or RIAs?)...

...anyway...Let's see what is going to come out!!!

Best to all of you while I come back to the boring work I am doing now!

See ya

Stefano

Il giorno 14-11-2005 15:44, John Dowdell, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha
scritto:

>> I can't understand why AFLAX library authors put such unindicative demos
>> to their site. These demos look like good old Flash sources and show no
>> advantage of using AJAX with Flash.
> 
>> AJAX is, as far as Im concerned, irrelevant to flash development
>> because of the veryprocess that AJAX uses is built into flash. Why go
>> back to javascript?
> 
> I'm impressed by the project. Why do we differ? Because you are not the
> audience. You can already do this stuff. You don't need the JavaScript,
> agreed.
> 
> But think about it from someone else's point of view -- think about it
> from the point of view from the person who wants to achieve new
> browser-based goals, and has heard about this "Ajax" that will help
> without having to learn that weird Flash stuff. (You don't think like
> that and I don't think like that, but we can agree that some *do* think
> like that.) Now they see ways that Flash Platform can help them achieve
> their own goals, in a way that they can see themselves accomplishing.
> 
> Is a threat to you and your skills? I don't think so -- Paul's stuff has
> to be generic, to handle a range of similar tasks, with a range of
> varied skills. You can always handroll a neater solution, a more compact
> solution, a more tuned-to-the-needs solution.
> 
> Is ALFAX of help to those of us on this list? I think so... the sooner
> we can kill off those wacky "Ajax will crush Flash!" tangents that some
> of the newbies latch onto, the better, so far as I'm concerned. Does
> this seem attractive to you too...?
> 
> jd
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash

[John Dowdell]

I can't understand why AFLAX library authors put such unindicative demos 
to their site. These demos look like good old Flash sources and show no 
advantage of using AJAX with Flash.


> AJAX is, as far as Im concerned, irrelevant to flash development
> because of the veryprocess that AJAX uses is built into flash. Why go
> back to javascript?

I'm impressed by the project. Why do we differ? Because you are not the 
audience. You can already do this stuff. You don't need the JavaScript, 
agreed.


But think about it from someone else's point of view -- think about it 
from the point of view from the person who wants to achieve new 
browser-based goals, and has heard about this "Ajax" that will help 
without having to learn that weird Flash stuff. (You don't think like 
that and I don't think like that, but we can agree that some *do* think 
like that.) Now they see ways that Flash Platform can help them achieve 
their own goals, in a way that they can see themselves accomplishing.


Is a threat to you and your skills? I don't think so -- Paul's stuff has 
to be generic, to handle a range of similar tasks, with a range of 
varied skills. You can always handroll a neater solution, a more compact 
solution, a more tuned-to-the-needs solution.


Is ALFAX of help to those of us on this list? I think so... the sooner 
we can kill off those wacky "Ajax will crush Flash!" tangents that some 
of the newbies latch onto, the better, so far as I'm concerned. Does 
this seem attractive to you too...?


jd




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Re: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash

[NEILHIGHLEY.COM]

AJAX is based on javascript Ascynch callbacks. Flash can process web
requests asynchronously using Events.

AJAX is, as far as Im concerned, irrelevant to flash development
because of the veryprocess that AJAX uses is built into flash. Why go
back to javascript?

I wish all this marketing hyperbole in regards to web 2.0 and AJAX
would blow away. At least users without javascript on their browsers
(or not even using a browser) can run flash asynchronously..oh yeah,
and its cross platform. Anyway, I cant see a reason to use flex to do
this particular thing either. Talk about sledgehammers and nuts..

Neil

On 11/10/05, Michael Klishin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jaye Morris wrote:
> > http://casario.blogs.com/mmworld/2005/11/aflax_a_javascr.html
> >
>
> I can't understand why AFLAX library authors put such unindicative demos
> to their site. These demos look like good old Flash sources and show no
> advantage of using AJAX with Flash. Just no client-server iteraction at
> all...
>
> --
> Michael "Antares" Klishin,
>
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Web: www.novemberain.com
>
> Non progredi est regredi
> ___
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Re: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash

[Michael Klishin]

Jaye Morris wrote:

http://casario.blogs.com/mmworld/2005/11/aflax_a_javascr.html



I can't understand why AFLAX library authors put such unindicative demos 
to their site. These demos look like good old Flash sources and show no 
advantage of using AJAX with Flash. Just no client-server iteraction at 
all...


--
Michael "Antares" Klishin,

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.novemberain.com

Non progredi est regredi
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FW: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash

[Weldon MacDonald]

 
 Amen, but you have to keep up with the abstract discussions in
order to best deal with the real world problems. If you keep forcing new
solutions out of the same mould, your probably not creating the best
solutions.
In many ways Flash and Ajax compete, but Flash can also be an integral part
of Ajax. While Flash has many advantages, handling text rich content isn't
one of them. If your developing something that needs asynchrony for some
elements, but also includes a lot of text, you may have to mix things up. As
you say it depends on the problem.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Dowdell
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 11:17 AM
To: Flashcoders mailing list
Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash

Weldon MacDonald wrote:
> Where does Flash fit in with the Ajax paradigm?

A lot depends on what "the Ajax paradigm" might be ;-)

I know that Flash and JavaScript have coexisted for about a decade now, and
that both are necessary clientside technologies. Both will also improve and
evolve, at their different rates of adoption and predictability.

In such discussions I usually look for the particular job under
consideration -- the tasks that must be done, the audience that must be
engaged, the client who knows the message they're trying to convey. The
technologies must serve these realworld needs to be useful, so I'm skeptical
of abstract technology discussions, unattached to a realworld need.

jd






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Re: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash

[Jaye Morris]

http://casario.blogs.com/mmworld/2005/11/aflax_a_javascr.html

On 11/7/05, Weldon MacDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Where does Flash fit in with the Ajax paradigm? As a competitor, or as an
> integrated part. The answer seems to be both, but I'm interested in how
> working developers see it.
>
>


--
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// www.jayezero.com 
// [EMAIL PROTECTED]
// [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash

[Devin Arnold]

I use Ajax and Flash within Windows Media Center interface...it works
very very nicely.

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Re: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash

[John Dowdell]

Weldon MacDonald wrote:

Where does Flash fit in with the Ajax paradigm?


A lot depends on what "the Ajax paradigm" might be ;-)

I know that Flash and JavaScript have coexisted for about a decade now, 
and that both are necessary clientside technologies. Both will also 
improve and evolve, at their different rates of adoption and 
predictability.


In such discussions I usually look for the particular job under 
consideration -- the tasks that must be done, the audience that must be 
engaged, the client who knows the message they're trying to convey. The 
technologies must serve these realworld needs to be useful, so I'm 
skeptical of abstract technology discussions, unattached to a realworld 
need.


jd






--
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Weblog: http://www.macromedia.com/go/blog_jd
Aggregator: http://www.macromedia.com/go/weblogs
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RE: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash

[Mike Mountain]

Yep.

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf 
> Of Marco Romeny
> Sent: 07 November 2005 14:32
> To: Flashcoders mailing list
> Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash
> 
> You mean map24.com (which powers rac.co.uk).
> 
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Re: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash

[Marco Romeny]

You mean map24.com (which powers rac.co.uk).

On 11/7/05, Mike Mountain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Correction
>
> www.rac.co.uk
>
> Best mapping tool going
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Mike Mountain
> > Sent: 07 November 2005 12:37
> > To: 'Flashcoders mailing list'
> > Subject: RE: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash
> >
> > Success won't be down to just ease of development or
> > features, it will depend on backing from early adopters. Most
> > sites that you'd think would benefit form an RIA (banking,
> > shopping, auctions etc.) are still using fairly old (read
> > reliable) set ups. They are more IA's than RIA's - sure we're
> > seeing a few mapping tools and webmail apps using flash, ajax
> > and even java applets (www.rac.com - best mapping tool going)
> > but most serious apps where people are spending money are
> > done the old way.
> >
> > Watch Google, Amazon, Ebay, play.com and Yahoo (a macromedia
> > partner so it's fairly easy to guess where they're going to go).
> >
> > It'll also depends on the backing of developers and designers
> > - Flash is so ubiquitous now thanks to lots of designers
> > thinking 'cool' and then tagging a really annoying intro to
> > the front of a site (remember eye4u anyone?) - it got the
> > player out there.
> >
> > Ajax won't go away, neither will Flash, as for Sparkle and
> > Flex2? Who knows - they both sound so promising but that
> > means nothing.
> >
> > M
> >
> >
> >
> >
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--
+++
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Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 917 945 2978
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RE: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash

[Glenn J. Miller]

First of all, sorry to all for the noise and bandwidth waste here, but I
just couldn't resist...

>From an old M$ platform devs (15+ yrs - all manner of languages)
perspective, ANYTHING that is 'cross-platform' from the Redmond crew is
gonna turn out to be anything but. Their biggest talking point used to be
leveraging 'the rich client interface' of the Windoze OS with their
proprietary API tools and frameworks. Well, the Boyz at MM have all but put
that to rest. Now Redmond is freakin out because they don't have a direct
competitor, so a FUD-Mission in certainly in order (read Sparkles 'feature
set'). On top of that, anyone remember the 'Cool' project M$ embarked on ~
the year 2000? Same business they're attempting w/ Sparkle - good luck. My
grandfather once told me "You can always paint an old barn to look new..."
Hrmmm... Same old barn, new 'paint job'...

The 'serious apps' (read Enterprise) use tried and true methods because of
the data access support, IMHO. Just take a look back and read over Visual
Basics long history as an example. That tool didn't get critical mass until
data access technologies were introduced ~ VB3 (mid 90's). Up until then,
mainframe dumb terminal interfaces ('firehose') were the rule of the day.
Macromedia is opening up HUGE doors here to the Enterprise as their tools
fully mature, and it's up to developers (read us) to kick those doors
down...

Keep in mind, you wanna use the right tool for the job. But Macromedia is
making it very difficult indeed to not consider their tool offerings when
decision-time comes...

Just my $0.03 (adjusted for inflation), however, your actual mileage may
vary...

--
Dok
Skyymap Inc. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike
Mountain
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 7:37 AM
To: Flashcoders mailing list
Subject: RE: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash

Success won't be down to just ease of development or features, it will
depend on backing from early adopters. Most sites that you'd think would
benefit form an RIA (banking, shopping, auctions etc.) are still using
fairly old (read reliable) set ups. They are more IA's than RIA's - sure
we're seeing a few mapping tools and webmail apps using flash, ajax and even
java applets (www.rac.com - best mapping tool going) but most serious apps
where people are spending money are done the old way.

Watch Google, Amazon, Ebay, play.com and Yahoo (a macromedia partner so it's
fairly easy to guess where they're going to go).

It'll also depends on the backing of developers and designers - Flash is so
ubiquitous now thanks to lots of designers thinking 'cool' and then tagging
a really annoying intro to the front of a site (remember eye4u
anyone?) - it got the player out there. 

Ajax won't go away, neither will Flash, as for Sparkle and Flex2? Who knows
- they both sound so promising but that means nothing.

M



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RE: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash

[Mike Mountain]

Correction

www.rac.co.uk

Best mapping tool going

> -Original Message-
> From: Mike Mountain 
> Sent: 07 November 2005 12:37
> To: 'Flashcoders mailing list'
> Subject: RE: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash
> 
> Success won't be down to just ease of development or 
> features, it will depend on backing from early adopters. Most 
> sites that you'd think would benefit form an RIA (banking, 
> shopping, auctions etc.) are still using fairly old (read 
> reliable) set ups. They are more IA's than RIA's - sure we're 
> seeing a few mapping tools and webmail apps using flash, ajax 
> and even java applets (www.rac.com - best mapping tool going) 
> but most serious apps where people are spending money are 
> done the old way.
> 
> Watch Google, Amazon, Ebay, play.com and Yahoo (a macromedia 
> partner so it's fairly easy to guess where they're going to go).
> 
> It'll also depends on the backing of developers and designers 
> - Flash is so ubiquitous now thanks to lots of designers 
> thinking 'cool' and then tagging a really annoying intro to 
> the front of a site (remember eye4u anyone?) - it got the 
> player out there. 
> 
> Ajax won't go away, neither will Flash, as for Sparkle and 
> Flex2? Who knows - they both sound so promising but that 
> means nothing.
> 
> M
> 
> 
> 
> 
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RE: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash

[Mike Mountain]

Success won't be down to just ease of development or features, it will
depend on backing from early adopters. Most sites that you'd think would
benefit form an RIA (banking, shopping, auctions etc.) are still using
fairly old (read reliable) set ups. They are more IA's than RIA's - sure
we're seeing a few mapping tools and webmail apps using flash, ajax and
even java applets (www.rac.com - best mapping tool going) but most
serious apps where people are spending money are done the old way.

Watch Google, Amazon, Ebay, play.com and Yahoo (a macromedia partner so
it's fairly easy to guess where they're going to go).

It'll also depends on the backing of developers and designers - Flash is
so ubiquitous now thanks to lots of designers thinking 'cool' and then
tagging a really annoying intro to the front of a site (remember eye4u
anyone?) - it got the player out there. 

Ajax won't go away, neither will Flash, as for Sparkle and Flex2? Who
knows - they both sound so promising but that means nothing.

M



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Re: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash

[Andreas Rønning]

Nick Weekes wrote:


The Windows Presentation Foundation (the 'plug-in' for avalon) will be cross
platform... 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andreas
Rønning
Sent: 07 November 2005 12:18
To: Flashcoders mailing list
Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash

Nick Weekes wrote:

 

I think a more interesting (albeit OT) comparison would be Flex v MS 
Avalon/Sparkle...



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike 
Mountain

Sent: 07 November 2005 12:04
To: Flashcoders mailing list
Subject: RE: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash

Prolly going to get shot down for this - but I don't see the point of 
using Flash and Ajax together - flash can do everything Ajax can and 
more, so if you're going to use flashthen 'use' flash.


M



   


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Weldon 
MacDonald

Sent: 07 November 2005 11:55
To: 'Flashcoders mailing list'
Subject: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash


Where does Flash fit in with the Ajax paradigm? As a competitor, or as 
an integrated part. The answer seems to be both, but I'm interested in 
how working developers see it.





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No contest. Flex is cross platform.

- Andreas
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Sure it will ;) "microsoft cross platform" is an oxymoron. Everything 
they've done that has been across multiple platforms has exhibited 
differing designs throughout. What is on platform A is not what is on 
platform B. In any regard, avalon is a longhorn tech in the same way 
quartz is an osx tech. Anything being cross platform in that regard is 
going to be a compromised solution.


In any case, MS is looking at having to propagate a new plugin in a 
flash friendly market. In the most basic of terms, i'd say flash has a 
head start ms is going to have a terrible time trying to follow, no 
matter how clever their forms look.


But what do i know. OT anyway :)

- Andreas
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RE: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash

[Nick Weekes]

The Windows Presentation Foundation (the 'plug-in' for avalon) will be cross
platform... 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andreas
Rønning
Sent: 07 November 2005 12:18
To: Flashcoders mailing list
Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash

Nick Weekes wrote:

>I think a more interesting (albeit OT) comparison would be Flex v MS 
>Avalon/Sparkle...
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike 
>Mountain
>Sent: 07 November 2005 12:04
>To: Flashcoders mailing list
>Subject: RE: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash
>
>Prolly going to get shot down for this - but I don't see the point of 
>using Flash and Ajax together - flash can do everything Ajax can and 
>more, so if you're going to use flashthen 'use' flash.
>
>M
>
>  
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Weldon 
>>MacDonald
>>Sent: 07 November 2005 11:55
>>To: 'Flashcoders mailing list'
>>Subject: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash
>>
>>
>>Where does Flash fit in with the Ajax paradigm? As a competitor, or as 
>>an integrated part. The answer seems to be both, but I'm interested in 
>>how working developers see it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>
No contest. Flex is cross platform.

- Andreas
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Re: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash

[Andreas Rønning]

Nick Weekes wrote:


I think a more interesting (albeit OT) comparison would be Flex v MS
Avalon/Sparkle...


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike
Mountain
Sent: 07 November 2005 12:04
To: Flashcoders mailing list
Subject: RE: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash

Prolly going to get shot down for this - but I don't see the point of using
Flash and Ajax together - flash can do everything Ajax can and more, so if
you're going to use flashthen 'use' flash.

M 

 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Weldon 
MacDonald

Sent: 07 November 2005 11:55
To: 'Flashcoders mailing list'
Subject: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash


Where does Flash fit in with the Ajax paradigm? As a competitor, or as 
an integrated part. The answer seems to be both, but I'm interested in 
how working developers see it.





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No contest. Flex is cross platform.

- Andreas
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RE: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash

[Nick Weekes]

I think a more interesting (albeit OT) comparison would be Flex v MS
Avalon/Sparkle...


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike
Mountain
Sent: 07 November 2005 12:04
To: Flashcoders mailing list
Subject: RE: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash

Prolly going to get shot down for this - but I don't see the point of using
Flash and Ajax together - flash can do everything Ajax can and more, so if
you're going to use flashthen 'use' flash.

M 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Weldon 
> MacDonald
> Sent: 07 November 2005 11:55
> To: 'Flashcoders mailing list'
> Subject: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash
> 
> 
> Where does Flash fit in with the Ajax paradigm? As a competitor, or as 
> an integrated part. The answer seems to be both, but I'm interested in 
> how working developers see it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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RE: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash

[Nick Weekes]

I agree Mike, asynchronous data transfer is one thing, but then Ajax falls
to pieces (imho) compared to the richness of the flash/flex API's.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike
Mountain
Sent: 07 November 2005 12:04
To: Flashcoders mailing list
Subject: RE: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash

Prolly going to get shot down for this - but I don't see the point of using
Flash and Ajax together - flash can do everything Ajax can and more, so if
you're going to use flashthen 'use' flash.

M 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Weldon 
> MacDonald
> Sent: 07 November 2005 11:55
> To: 'Flashcoders mailing list'
> Subject: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash
> 
> 
> Where does Flash fit in with the Ajax paradigm? As a competitor, or as 
> an integrated part. The answer seems to be both, but I'm interested in 
> how working developers see it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
> 
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Re: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash

[Andreas Rønning]

Mike Mountain wrote:


Prolly going to get shot down for this - but I don't see the point of
using Flash and Ajax together - flash can do everything Ajax can and
more, so if you're going to use flashthen 'use' flash.

M 

 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf 
Of Weldon MacDonald

Sent: 07 November 2005 11:55
To: 'Flashcoders mailing list'
Subject: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash


Where does Flash fit in with the Ajax paradigm? As a 
competitor, or as an integrated part. The answer seems to be 
both, but I'm interested in how working developers see it.





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Flex2. Eod.

- Andreas
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RE: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash

[Mike Mountain]

Prolly going to get shot down for this - but I don't see the point of
using Flash and Ajax together - flash can do everything Ajax can and
more, so if you're going to use flashthen 'use' flash.

M 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf 
> Of Weldon MacDonald
> Sent: 07 November 2005 11:55
> To: 'Flashcoders mailing list'
> Subject: [Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash
> 
> 
> Where does Flash fit in with the Ajax paradigm? As a 
> competitor, or as an integrated part. The answer seems to be 
> both, but I'm interested in how working developers see it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Flashcoders mailing list
> Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
> 
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[Flashcoders] Ajax and Flash

[Weldon MacDonald]

Where does Flash fit in with the Ajax paradigm? As a competitor, or as an
integrated part. The answer seems to be both, but I'm interested in how
working developers see it.




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