[flexcoders] Re: Flex 2 limitations vs. raw Flash 8 Prof? - STAY AWAY FROM F9 Preview
OK, anything nice I said in the past about the Flash 9 Preview - I take it back. We can't even generate basic components like a TextArea in the Preview. I would have thought that with the availability of the Flex SDK you could tap into the flex components...but no go on that, either. Quite annoying... see http://www.zeuslabs.us/archives/78/can-flash-9-preview-compile-the-flex-framework/ --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Kirk Marple [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ah, very interesting... i heard drag/drop and assumed you were talking about user actions within the application. thanks for the TT reference - that looks like it might be money well-spent. if i don't get to Max, then that looks like a good bet. from everybody's valuable replies, it sure seems like we could proceed with the F9 preview, and pick and choose pieces to build there, and do the shell and the rest of it in Flex. if that's the case, then i think we're going to be good to go. as an aside, we're looking for one or two part-time Flex/Flash devs to help with our project. if anybody's available right now (via telecommuting), please shoot me an email at jobs (at) agnostic-media.com. thanks, Kirk _ From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of fuad_kamal Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 9:20 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Re: Flex 2 limitations vs. raw Flash 8 Prof? In the F9 preview, if you open the components window, whatever is ther e is grayed out - so there is no way to utilize prebuilt components in F9 except via code. The help window/documentation window is completely empty. Basically the F9 preview is the F8 shell, with support for AS3 code. On the up side, they were helpful enough to have the compiler in F9 display warnings particular to AS2 - AS3 conversion issues. I would caution against building an entire RIA in F9 preview; better to stick with flex and use F9 for visually building individual components that require use of the timeline - you can then utilize the compiled swf's in Flex. There is also no such thing as MXML in F9. In Flex 2 you can drag and drop components from a component window, you can create them in mxml or you could instatiate them via AS3. Keep in mind also that all the components in Flex can be skinned, so look feel should not be an issue. You can also easily create new components or extend existing ones. You mentioned that your developer is from a Flash MX background. I found that most of the Flex developers seem to be former Java programmers; developing in Flex is a totally different paradigm than in Flash. I also haven't met a Java programmer yet that didn't find the Flash IDE to be opaque to them. Don't dismay, though - I also came from a Flash environment and had no trouble jumping into a massive flex project...but there was a bit of ramp up time. If your developer is strong in OOP he should have no problem in Flex. You might also consider the Total Training video on Flex 2, it's darn cheap and I never saw a TT video (including the one on Flex) that wasn't extremely comprehensive, and frankly I think their material is beyond compare. -fuad --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com ups.com, Kirk Marple kirk-public@ wrote: hi Fuad, can you dive more into your comment about Outside of pure code though, there's no drag 'n drop functionality in the F9 preview like we have in Flex...? i'm curious what the limitation is there that you're describing. we have a definite need for drag/drop functionality, so i'm worried that this might affect us. thanks, Kirk _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com ups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com ups.com] On Behalf Of fuad_kamal Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 11:16 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com ups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Re: Flex 2 limitations vs. raw Flash 8 Prof? One addenum to that - in theory you can access the same component architecture in the Flash 9 preview as you can in Flex - from your AS3 code. Outside of pure code though, there's no drag 'n drop functionality in the F9 preview like we have in Flex...but I think that's just a preview issue; even the help/doc files are empty in the preview. It certainly is MUCH easier coding AS3 in Flex 2 than the preview, hopefully that gap will lessen with the release version. Anyway you can also write your AS3 code from within Flex2 and then make use of those AS files from F9 preview... --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com ups.com, greg h flexsavvy@ wrote: Kirk, I am going to reply in this one email to your two earlier posts. You started off your first post with we're looking to move our ASP.NEThttp://asp.net/based application suite to Flash
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex 2 limitations vs. raw Flash 8 Prof?
Kirk, Just curious if you will be attending MAX? I got information on the Tuesday and Wednesday evening Birds-of-a-Feather (BoF)sessions. Following are the Flex BoF sessions next week at MAX: TUESDAY 7:00 - 8:15 p.m. -- Flex Frameworks and Methodoligies 8:30 - 10:00 p.m. -- Flex Component Development WEDNESDAY 6:30 - 7:30 p.m.-- Meet The Team: Flex As is always the case, the worst thing about MAX is where two sessions you want to attend conflict. For me, one case is Tuesday 7:00-8:15 pm where theFlex BoF session conflicts with: FlashVideo/Flash Media Server Meet the Team :( g On 10/6/06, Kirk Marple [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ah, very interesting... i heard drag/drop and assumed you were talking about user actions within the application. thanks for the TT reference - that looks like it might be money well-spent. if i don't get to Max, then that looks like a good bet. from everybody's valuable replies, it sure seems like we could proceed with the F9 preview, and pick and choose pieces to build there, and do the shell and the rest of it in Flex. if that's the case, then i think we're going to be good to go. as an aside, we're looking for one or two part-time Flex/Flash devs to help with our project. if anybody's available right now (via telecommuting), please shoot me an email at jobs (at) agnostic-media.com. thanks, Kirk __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Software development tool Software development Software development services Home design software Software development company Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
[flexcoders] Re: Flex 2 limitations vs. raw Flash 8 Prof?
In the F9 preview, if you open the components window, whatever is ther e is grayed out - so there is no way to utilize prebuilt components in F9 except via code. The help window/documentation window is completely empty. Basically the F9 preview is the F8 shell, with support for AS3 code. On the up side, they were helpful enough to have the compiler in F9 display warnings particular to AS2 - AS3 conversion issues. I would caution against building an entire RIA in F9 preview; better to stick with flex and use F9 for visually building individual components that require use of the timeline - you can then utilize the compiled swf's in Flex. There is also no such thing as MXML in F9. In Flex 2 you can drag and drop components from a component window, you can create them in mxml or you could instatiate them via AS3. Keep in mind also that all the components in Flex can be skinned, so look feel should not be an issue. You can also easily create new components or extend existing ones. You mentioned that your developer is from a Flash MX background. I found that most of the Flex developers seem to be former Java programmers; developing in Flex is a totally different paradigm than in Flash. I also haven't met a Java programmer yet that didn't find the Flash IDE to be opaque to them. Don't dismay, though - I also came from a Flash environment and had no trouble jumping into a massive flex project...but there was a bit of ramp up time. If your developer is strong in OOP he should have no problem in Flex. You might also consider the Total Training video on Flex 2, it's darn cheap and I never saw a TT video (including the one on Flex) that wasn't extremely comprehensive, and frankly I think their material is beyond compare. -fuad --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Kirk Marple [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi Fuad, can you dive more into your comment about Outside of pure code though, there's no drag 'n drop functionality in the F9 preview like we have in Flex...? i'm curious what the limitation is there that you're describing. we have a definite need for drag/drop functionality, so i'm worried that this might affect us. thanks, Kirk _ From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of fuad_kamal Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 11:16 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Re: Flex 2 limitations vs. raw Flash 8 Prof? One addenum to that - in theory you can access the same component architecture in the Flash 9 preview as you can in Flex - from your AS3 code. Outside of pure code though, there's no drag 'n drop functionality in the F9 preview like we have in Flex...but I think that's just a preview issue; even the help/doc files are empty in the preview. It certainly is MUCH easier coding AS3 in Flex 2 than the preview, hopefully that gap will lessen with the release version. Anyway you can also write your AS3 code from within Flex2 and then make use of those AS files from F9 preview... --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com ups.com, greg h flexsavvy@ wrote: Kirk, I am going to reply in this one email to your two earlier posts. You started off your first post with we're looking to move our ASP.NEThttp://asp.net/based application suite to Flash. So I assume that your team has no deep competency with either Flex or Flash. Is this correct? For developing RIAs, I suggest you make Flex 2 your default choice with a side investigation of how to use Flash 9 (or for now Flash 8 Pro with the Flash Pro 9 ActionScript 3.0 Previewhttp://labs. http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flash9as3preview/ adobe.com/technologies/flash9as3preview/ ). There are a number of points of comparison between Flex and Flash. When developing RIAs one that is very relevant is the choice between using the prebuilt component framework in Flex 2 vs building your own components in Flash 8 or 9. Also, the whole development process is very different. Will you be having your ASP.NET http://asp.net/ developers cross training? If so Flex 2 likely will prove to be more familiar and easier for them to come up to speed on quickly. Flash authoring, on the other hand, uses paradigms that likely are unfamiliar to more traditional developers such as is taught in university computer science programs. For a quick sense of how Flash development may look to traditional coders, in this following article see the section under the heading: We Call This 'The Timeline.' No, Wait, Come Back! www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/articles/flash_perspective.html Regarding video-heavy applications I see no inherent advantage of Flash over Flex (or vice versa). One potential disadvantage of Flex 2 is that it is ActionScript 3 only. But this is only a disadvantage if you have existing Flash ActionScript 2 components, because as Robert hinted in his post at run time AS3 and AS2
RE: [flexcoders] Re: Flex 2 limitations vs. raw Flash 8 Prof?
ah, very interesting... i heard "drag/drop" and assumed you were talking about user actions within the application. thanks for the TT reference - that looks like it might be money well-spent. if i don't get to Max, then that looks like a good bet. from everybody's valuable replies, it sure seems like we could proceed with the F9 preview, and pick and choose pieces to build there, and do the shell and the rest of it in Flex. if that's the case, then i think we're going to be good to go. as an aside, we're looking for one or two part-time Flex/Flash devs to help with our project. if anybody's available right now (via telecommuting), please shoot me an email at jobs (at) agnostic-media.com. thanks, Kirk From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of fuad_kamalSent: Friday, October 06, 2006 9:20 AMTo: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: [flexcoders] Re: Flex 2 limitations vs. raw Flash 8 Prof? In the F9 preview, if you open the components window, whatever is there is grayed out - so there is no way to utilize prebuilt components inF9 except via code. The help window/documentation window iscompletely empty. Basically the F9 preview is the F8 shell, withsupport for AS3 code. On the up side, they were helpful enough tohave the compiler in F9 display warnings particular to AS2 - AS3conversion issues. I would caution against building an entire RIA inF9 preview; better to stick with flex and use F9 for visuallybuilding individual components that require use of the timeline - youcan then utilize the compiled swf's in Flex. There is also no suchthing as MXML in F9.In Flex 2 you can drag and drop components from a component window,you can create them in mxml or you could instatiate them via AS3. Keep in mind also that all the components in Flex can be skinned, solook feel should not be an issue. You can also easily create newcomponents or extend existing ones.You mentioned that your developer is from a Flash MX background. Ifound that most of the Flex developers seem to be former Javaprogrammers; developing in Flex is a totally different paradigm thanin Flash. I also haven't met a Java programmer yet that didn't findthe Flash IDE to be "opaque" to them. Don't dismay, though - I alsocame from a Flash environment and had no trouble jumping into amassive flex project...but there was a bit of ramp up time. If yourdeveloper is strong in OOP he should have no problem in Flex. Youmight also consider the Total Training video on Flex 2, it's darncheap and I never saw a TT video (including the one on Flex) thatwasn't extremely comprehensive, and frankly I think their material isbeyond compare.-fuad--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com, "Kirk Marple" kirk-public@... wrote: hi Fuad, can you dive more into your comment about "Outside of pure code though, there's no drag 'n drop functionality in the F9 preview like we have in Flex..."? i'm curious what the limitation is there that you're describing. we have a definite need for drag/drop functionality, so i'm worried that this might affect us. thanks, Kirk _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com] On Behalf Of fuad_kamal Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 11:16 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Re: Flex 2 limitations vs. raw Flash 8 Prof? One addenum to that - in theory you can access the same component architecture in the Flash 9 preview as you can in Flex - from your AS3 code. Outside of pure code though, there's no drag 'n drop functionality in the F9 preview like we have in Flex...but I think that's just a preview issue; even the help/doc files are empty in the preview. It certainly is MUCH easier coding AS3 in Flex 2 than the preview, hopefully that gap will lessen with the release version. Anyway you can also write your AS3 code from within Flex2 and then make use of those AS files from F9 preview... --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.comups.com, "greg h" flexsavvy@ wrote: Kirk, I am going to reply in this one email to your two earlier posts.You started off your first post with "we're looking to move our ASP.NEThttp://asp.net/based application suite to Flash". So I assume that your team has no deep competency with either Flex or Flash. Is this correct? For developing RIAs, I suggest you make Flex 2 your default choice with a side investigation of how to use Flash 9 (or for now Flash 8 Pro with the Flash Pro 9 ActionScript 3.0 Previewhttp://labs. http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flash9as3preview/ adobe.com/technologies/flash9as3preview/ ). There are a number of points of comparison between Flex and Flash.When developing RIAs one that is very relevant is the choice between using the prebuilt component framework in Flex 2 vs building your own components in Flash 8 or 9.Also, the whole development proce
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex 2 limitations vs. raw Flash 8 Prof?
what you decide, please do post back to this list and let us know what you decided (and maybe even why :-) hth, g On 10/4/06, Kirk Marple [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: interesting... one of the issues brought up to me was how to get the nice cinematic feel w/ scripted animations, etc. in Flex. i was told that only simple looping animations were possible because we couldn't mix Flex running AS3 with scripted movies with AS2. maybe the new AS3 preview will solve that, since we could script animations using AS3 in regular Flash 8 Professional. am i totally off-base here in what i've been told? thanks, Kirk From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nick CollinsSent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 1:58 PMTo: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex 2 limitations vs. raw Flash 8 Prof? The fact of the matter is that it's not an either/or situation. You should use both. For the logic and coding you definitely want to be using Flex with SVN for obvious reasons, and for building the skins of the UI components to create the cinematic experience you want to be using Flash. On 10/4/06, Renaun Erickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A big one for me is Developer workflow. Try sharing FLA's between acouple of developers. Using MXML and AS with CVS/SVN you can get tonsof work done with out working about who has the latest file. Grantedyou could do this with Flash 8 professional and external AS files butthat is also messy in its own right.Renaun--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com , Kirk Marple [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: we're looking to move our ASP.NET based application suite to Flash,and have been investigating the use of Flex 2 vs. just straight Flash 8 Pro. can anyone provide any feedback on what limitations you've seen when developing an RIA in Flex 2 vs. just straight Flash 8? we're trying to evaluate the pros/cons on going one way vs another. specifically, we like the Flex 2 layout capabilities and the ability to easily deal with XML and REST web services, but we seem to beconstrained by the lack of scripted animations (from what i've heard) and abilityto have a cinematic look/feel compared to Flash 8. also, it's video-heavy application and need the ability to do dynamic video assembly andplayback. thanks for any input! Kirk -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ Kirk Marple Chief Software Architect, VP of Engineering Agnostic Media, Inc. e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: www.agnostic-media.com http://www.agnostic-media.com/ __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Software development tool Software development Software development services Home design software Software development company Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
[flexcoders] Re: Flex 2 limitations vs. raw Flash 8 Prof?
. The Flash team will be there in force. And a large part of the community developing in both will be there too. Just to give you a flavor, here are 4 sessions that seem pretty on point to your requirement: - Flex for Flash Designers: How Flex and Flash Work Togetherhttp://www.adobe.com/events/max/sessions/cd208w.html. A variation of this session is already available streaming on the net here: www2.sys-con.com/webinararchive.cfm?registered=onpid=wc_rwf6_s06warden With the presenter's notes here: www.jessewarden.com/archives/2006/09/flex_seminar_pr.html - Best Practices for Developing Flash Applicationshttp://www.adobe.com/events/max/sessions/wd211w.htmlby the author of the Flash MX 2004 V2 MediaPlayback component. Three months ago the presenter published an article on Guidelines for Flash application developmenthttp://www.adobe.com/devnet/flash/articles/ria_dev_guidelines.html - Mixing Web Video with Live Broadcast TV: Flex and Flash Media Server Teamed up for the Ultimate Engaging Experience http://www.adobe.com/events/max/sessions/vs110w.html - Leveraging Flex 2 and Flash Player 9 for Truly Cinematic Experiences http://www.adobe.com/events/max/sessions/ri210w.html Regardless what you decide, please do post back to this list and let us know what you decided (and maybe even why :-) hth, g On 10/4/06, Kirk Marple [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: interesting... one of the issues brought up to me was how to get the nice cinematic feel w/ scripted animations, etc. in Flex. i was told that only simple looping animations were possible because we couldn't mix Flex running AS3 with scripted movies with AS2. maybe the new AS3 preview will solve that, since we could script animations using AS3 in regular Flash 8 Professional. am i totally off-base here in what i've been told? thanks, Kirk -- *From:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Nick Collins *Sent:* Wednesday, October 04, 2006 1:58 PM *To:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex 2 limitations vs. raw Flash 8 Prof? The fact of the matter is that it's not an either/or situation. You should use both. For the logic and coding you definitely want to be using Flex with SVN for obvious reasons, and for building the skins of the UI components to create the cinematic experience you want to be using Flash. On 10/4/06, Renaun Erickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A big one for me is Developer workflow. Try sharing FLA's between a couple of developers. Using MXML and AS with CVS/SVN you can get tons of work done with out working about who has the latest file. Granted you could do this with Flash 8 professional and external AS files but that is also messy in its own right. Renaun --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com, Kirk Marple kirk-public@ wrote: we're looking to move our ASP.NET based application suite to Flash, and have been investigating the use of Flex 2 vs. just straight Flash 8 Pro. can anyone provide any feedback on what limitations you've seen when developing an RIA in Flex 2 vs. just straight Flash 8? we're trying to evaluate the pros/cons on going one way vs another. specifically, we like the Flex 2 layout capabilities and the ability to easily deal with XML and REST web services, but we seem to be constrained by the lack of scripted animations (from what i've heard) and ability to have a cinematic look/feel compared to Flash 8. also, it's video-heavy application and need the ability to do dynamic video assembly and playback. thanks for any input! Kirk -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ Kirk Marple Chief Software Architect, VP of Engineering Agnostic Media, Inc. e: kirk@ w: www.agnostic-media.com http://www.agnostic-media.com/ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex 2 limitations vs. raw Flash 8 Prof?
/flashcoders Should you want to solicit comments from Flash/Flex video specialists, you might also want to put your post up over on the FlashMedia list: http://www.flashcomguru.com/flashmedialist/ http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders And by the way, can you spare 3 days later this month? If so you really should come to MAXhttp://www.adobe.com/events/max/agenda/by_track.html#rias! It will be the ideal forum for you to hammer out a definitive plan of action. The Flex 2 team will be there in force. The Flash team will be there in force. And a large part of the community developing in both will be there too. Just to give you a flavor, here are 4 sessions that seem pretty on point to your requirement: - Flex for Flash Designers: How Flex and Flash Work Togetherhttp://www.adobe.com/events/max/sessions/cd208w.html. A variation of this session is already available streaming on the net here: www2.sys-con.com/webinararchive.cfm?registered=onpid=wc_rwf6_s06warden With the presenter's notes here: www.jessewarden.com/archives/2006/09/flex_seminar_pr.html - Best Practices for Developing Flash Applicationshttp://www.adobe.com/events/max/sessions/wd211w.htmlby the author of the Flash MX 2004 V2 MediaPlayback component. Three months ago the presenter published an article on Guidelines for Flash application developmenthttp://www.adobe.com/devnet/flash/articles/ria_dev_guidelines.html - Mixing Web Video with Live Broadcast TV: Flex and Flash Media Server Teamed up for the Ultimate Engaging Experience http://www.adobe.com/events/max/sessions/vs110w.html - Leveraging Flex 2 and Flash Player 9 for Truly Cinematic Experiences http://www.adobe.com/events/max/sessions/ri210w.html Regardless what you decide, please do post back to this list and let us know what you decided (and maybe even why :-) hth, g On 10/4/06, Kirk Marple [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: interesting... one of the issues brought up to me was how to get the nice cinematic feel w/ scripted animations, etc. in Flex. i was told that only simple looping animations were possible because we couldn't mix Flex running AS3 with scripted movies with AS2. maybe the new AS3 preview will solve that, since we could script animations using AS3 in regular Flash 8 Professional. am i totally off-base here in what i've been told? thanks, Kirk -- *From:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Nick Collins *Sent:* Wednesday, October 04, 2006 1:58 PM *To:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex 2 limitations vs. raw Flash 8 Prof? The fact of the matter is that it's not an either/or situation. You should use both. For the logic and coding you definitely want to be using Flex with SVN for obvious reasons, and for building the skins of the UI components to create the cinematic experience you want to be using Flash. On 10/4/06, Renaun Erickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A big one for me is Developer workflow. Try sharing FLA's between a couple of developers. Using MXML and AS with CVS/SVN you can get tons of work done with out working about who has the latest file. Granted you could do this with Flash 8 professional and external AS files but that is also messy in its own right. Renaun --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com, Kirk Marple kirk-public@ wrote: we're looking to move our ASP.NET based application suite to Flash, and have been investigating the use of Flex 2 vs. just straight Flash 8 Pro. can anyone provide any feedback on what limitations you've seen when developing an RIA in Flex 2 vs. just straight Flash 8? we're trying to evaluate the pros/cons on going one way vs another. specifically, we like the Flex 2 layout capabilities and the ability to easily deal with XML and REST web services, but we seem to be constrained by the lack of scripted animations (from what i've heard) and ability to have a cinematic look/feel compared to Flash 8. also, it's video-heavy application and need the ability to do dynamic video assembly and playback. thanks for any input! Kirk -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ Kirk Marple Chief Software Architect, VP of Engineering Agnostic Media, Inc. e: kirk@ w: www.agnostic-media.com http://www.agnostic-media.com/ -- diabetic? http://www.diabetesforums.comAlbert Einstein - It's not that I'm so smart, it's just that I stay with problems longer. __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS
RE: [flexcoders] Re: Flex 2 limitations vs. raw Flash 8 Prof?
hi Greg, i really appreciate this detailed reply - this is a huge help to my decision-making process. historically, we've done ASP.NET/C# work, with some Flash MX development (Flash control in HTML). i recently hired a new user experience guy who is very strong in Flash dev, but doesn't yet have experience in Flex or AS3. we've been discussing the pros/cons of Flex/Flash, and that's where the original question to the list originated. we're on a short timeline, but we have a high bar to meet in terms of functionality and look/feel. i totally get the benefits of Flex as a quicker way to get the shell of the application built, but i'm concerned about that last 10% where we'll visually differentiate ourselves from every other Flex app outthere. visually, we're in the ballpark of Vongo (www.vongo.com)or JumpCut(www.jumpcut.com) video and media management applications. search/browse interface, thumbnails, in-place video previews, etc., but we're looking to raise the bar in terms of cinematic animations - smoothly animated filmstrips, drag/drop of thumbnails into the filmstrip, video clip editing. our back-end is .NET web services that expose a REST interface. i'm OK running on the bleeding-edge a bit with AS3, since we can still target Flash 9 player now. we're at the start of a new product suite, so moving forward i wouldn't want to be stuck with legacy limitations of AS2. i'd rather eat that risk at the start of the product cycle. it sounds like, if we use AS3 for scripted animations, we can integrate that cleanly with the Flex 2/AS3 application shell. myself and my UE guy areplanning to be at MAX this month - so i think that'll be a great way to get face time with Macromedia folks and dive deeper into these questions. thanks, Kirk From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of greg hSent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 10:42 AMTo: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex 2 limitations vs. raw Flash 8 Prof? Kirk,I am going to reply in this one email to your two earlier posts.You started off your first post with "we're looking to move our ASP.NET based application suite to Flash". So I assume that your team has no deep competency with either Flex or Flash. Is this correct? For developing RIAs, I suggest you make Flex 2 your default choice with a side investigation of how to use Flash 9 (or for now Flash 8 Pro with the Flash Pro 9 ActionScript 3.0 Preview).There are a number of points of comparison between Flex and Flash. When developing RIAs one that is very relevant is the choice between using the prebuilt component framework in Flex 2 vs building your own components in Flash 8 or 9.Also, the whole development process is very different. Will you be having your ASP.NET developers cross training? If so Flex 2 likely will prove to be more familiar and easier for them to come up to speed on quickly. Flash authoring, on the other hand, uses paradigms that likely are unfamiliar to more traditional developers such as is taught in university computer science programs. For a quick sense of how Flash development may look to traditional coders, in this following article see the section under the heading: "We Call This 'The Timeline.' No, Wait, Come Back!"www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/articles/flash_perspective.htmlRegarding "video-heavy applications" I see no inherent advantage of Flash over Flex (or vice versa).One potential disadvantage of Flex 2 is that it is ActionScript 3 only. But this is only a disadvantage if you have existing Flash ActionScript 2 components, because as Robert hinted in his post at run time AS3 and AS2 components are limited in their ability to talk to each other. Aside from that, however, the advantages of AS3 over AS2 are enormous.Regarding the specific issue you stated that "we couldn't mix Flex running AS3 with scripted movies with AS2", that is only partly true. As of Flash Player 9 (FP9), there are two Actionscript Virtual Machines (AVM). AS3 pcode runs in FP9's new AVM2, and the pcode from AS2 and earlier run in AVM1. At runtime, code can be running in both AVM1 and AVM2 at the same time, but they can not pass values directly between the AVMs. Though they can pass values through external APIs (in his post Robert mentioned localconnection). So, though you CAN "mix Flex running AS3 with scripted movies with AS2", there are limitations. Thus this is one case where shops with legacy AVM1 code may have an incentive to convert their legacy code to AS3. For a great walkthrough of what is new with FP9, AS3 and the AVM2 check out this presentation by Gary Grossman, lead developer on the Flash Player team and an Adobe Senior Scientist. http://seminars.breezecentral.com/p64058844/On another issue, your posts are the first I have heard anyone raising concerns about "one of the issues brought up to me was how to get the ni
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex 2 limitations vs. raw Flash 8 Prof?
Don't forget Flash 9 is in not so far the future, you got the preview version to play with now, and the final might come up early next year, by then, all the code you wrote in AS3 will worth the effort, no more flash-flex communication problem, no more timeline problem. On 10/6/06, Kirk Marple [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi Greg, i really appreciate this detailed reply - this is a huge help to my decision-making process. historically, we've done ASP.NET/C# work, with some Flash MX development (Flash control in HTML). i recently hired a new user experience guy who is very strong in Flash dev, but doesn't yet have experience in Flex or AS3. we've been discussing the pros/cons of Flex/Flash, and that's where the original question to the list originated. we're on a short timeline, but we have a high bar to meet in terms of functionality and look/feel. i totally get the benefits of Flex as a quicker way to get the shell of the application built, but i'm concerned about that last 10% where we'll visually differentiate ourselves from every other Flex app outthere. visually, we're in the ballpark of Vongo ( www.vongo.com)or JumpCut(www.jumpcut.com) video and media management applications. search/browse interface, thumbnails, in-place video previews, etc., but we're looking to raise the bar in terms of cinematic animations - smoothly animated filmstrips, drag/drop of thumbnails into the filmstrip, video clip editing. our back-end is .NET web services that expose a REST interface. i'm OK running on the bleeding-edge a bit with AS3, since we can still target Flash 9 player now. we're at the start of a new product suite, so moving forward i wouldn't want to be stuck with legacy limitations of AS2. i'd rather eat that risk at the start of the product cycle. it sounds like, if we use AS3 for scripted animations, we can integrate that cleanly with the Flex 2/AS3 application shell. myself and my UE guy areplanning to be at MAX this month - so i think that'll be a great way to get face time with Macromedia folks and dive deeper into these questions. thanks, Kirk From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greg hSent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 10:42 AMTo: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex 2 limitations vs. raw Flash 8 Prof? Kirk,I am going to reply in this one email to your two earlier posts.You started off your first post with we're looking to move our ASP.NET based application suite to Flash. So I assume that your team has no deep competency with either Flex or Flash. Is this correct? For developing RIAs, I suggest you make Flex 2 your default choice with a side investigation of how to use Flash 9 (or for now Flash 8 Pro with the Flash Pro 9 ActionScript 3.0 Preview).There are a number of points of comparison between Flex and Flash. When developing RIAs one that is very relevant is the choice between using the prebuilt component framework in Flex 2 vs building your own components in Flash 8 or 9.Also, the whole development process is very different. Will you be having your ASP.NET developers cross training? If so Flex 2 likely will prove to be more familiar and easier for them to come up to speed on quickly. Flash authoring, on the other hand, uses paradigms that likely are unfamiliar to more traditional developers such as is taught in university computer science programs. For a quick sense of how Flash development may look to traditional coders, in this following article see the section under the heading: We Call This 'The Timeline.' No, Wait, Come Back!www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/articles/flash_perspective.html Regarding video-heavy applications I see no inherent advantage of Flash over Flex (or vice versa).One potential disadvantage of Flex 2 is that it is ActionScript 3 only. But this is only a disadvantage if you have existing Flash ActionScript 2 components, because as Robert hinted in his post at run time AS3 and AS2 components are limited in their ability to talk to each other. Aside from that, however, the advantages of AS3 over AS2 are enormous.Regarding the specific issue you stated that we couldn't mix Flex running AS3 with scripted movies with AS2, that is only partly true. As of Flash Player 9 (FP9), there are two Actionscript Virtual Machines (AVM). AS3 pcode runs in FP9's new AVM2, and the pcode from AS2 and earlier run in AVM1. At runtime, code can be running in both AVM1 and AVM2 at the same time, but they can not pass values directly between the AVMs. Though they can pass values through external APIs (in his post Robert mentioned localconnection). So, though you CAN mix Flex running AS3 with scripted movies with AS2, there are limitations. Thus this is one case where shops with legacy AVM1 code may have an incentive to convert their legacy code to AS3. For a great walkthrough of what is new with FP9, AS3 and the AVM2 check out this presentation by Gary
RE: [flexcoders] Re: Flex 2 limitations vs. raw Flash 8 Prof?
hi Fuad, can you dive more into your comment about "Outside of pure code though, there's no drag 'n dropfunctionality in the F9 preview like we have in Flex..."? i'm curious what the limitation is there that you're describing. we have a definite need for drag/drop functionality, so i'm worried that this might affect us. thanks,Kirk From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of fuad_kamalSent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 11:16 AMTo: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: [flexcoders] Re: Flex 2 limitations vs. raw Flash 8 Prof? One addenum to that - in theory you can access the same componentarchitecture in the Flash 9 preview as you can in Flex - from your AS3code. Outside of pure code though, there's no drag 'n dropfunctionality in the F9 preview like we have in Flex...but I thinkthat's just a preview issue; even the help/doc files are empty in thepreview. It certainly is MUCH easier coding AS3 in Flex 2 than thepreview, hopefully that gap will lessen with the release version. Anyway you can also write your AS3 code from within Flex2 and thenmake use of those AS files from F9 preview...--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com, "greg h" [EMAIL PROTECTED].. wrote: Kirk, I am going to reply in this one email to your two earlier posts. You started off your first post with "we're looking to move our ASP.NEThttp://asp.net/based application suite to Flash". So I assume that your team has no deep competency with either Flex or Flash. Is this correct? For developing RIAs, I suggest you make Flex 2 your default choicewith a side investigation of how to use Flash 9 (or for now Flash 8 Prowith the Flash Pro 9 ActionScript 3.0 Previewhttp://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flash9as3preview/ ). There are a number of points of comparison between Flex and Flash. When developing RIAs one that is very relevant is the choice betweenusing the prebuilt component framework in Flex 2 vs building your owncomponents in Flash 8 or 9. Also, the whole development process is very different. Will you behaving your ASP.NET http://asp.net/ developers cross training? If so Flex 2 likely will prove to be more familiar and easier for them to come up to speed on quickly. Flash authoring, on the other hand, usesparadigms that likely are unfamiliar to more traditional developers such as istaught in university computer science programs. For a quick sense of how Flash development may look to traditional coders, in this followingarticle see the section under the heading: "We Call This 'The Timeline.' No, Wait, Come Back!" www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/articles/flash_perspective.html Regarding "video-heavy applications" I see no inherent advantage ofFlash over Flex (or vice versa). One potential disadvantage of Flex 2 is that it is ActionScript 3only. But this is only a disadvantage if you have existing Flash ActionScript 2 components, because as Robert hinted in his post at run time AS3 and AS2 components are limited in their ability to talk to each other. Aside from that, however, the advantages of AS3 over AS2 are enormous. Regarding the specific issue you stated that "we couldn't mix Flexrunning AS3 with scripted movies with AS2", that is only partly true. As ofFlash Player 9 (FP9), there are two Actionscript Virtual Machines (AVM). AS3 pcode runs in FP9's new AVM2, and the pcode from AS2 and earlier run in AVM1. At runtime, code can be running in both AVM1 and AVM2 at the same time, but they can not pass values directly between the AVMs. Though they can pass values through external APIs (in his post Robert mentioned localconnection). So, though you CAN "mix Flex running AS3 withscripted movies with AS2", there are limitations. Thus this is one casewhere shops with legacy AVM1 code may have an incentive to convert their legacycode to AS3. For a great walkthrough of what is new with FP9, AS3 and the AVM2 check out this presentation by Gary Grossman, lead developer on theFlash Player team and an Adobe Senior Scientist. http://seminars.breezecentral.com/p64058844/ On another issue, your posts are the first I have heard anyone raising concerns about "one of the issues brought up to me was how to getthe nice cinematic feel w/ scripted animations, etc. in Flex." Whether youauthor in Flash or Flex it all compiles down to the same pcode. It really is just dependent on the skills of your developers. Furthermore, as Nicksaid in his reply, "You should use both." And "it's not an either/orsituation." I actually would love it if you could have your source on this concernpost back on this thread with more details. The broad community of "Flash Platform" developers continue to grapple with how get the most outof the vast and amazing tools that Adobe has given us :-) Should you want to solicit comments that may favor Flash more overFlex, you mi
[flexcoders] Re: Flex 2 limitations vs. raw Flash 8 Prof?
A big one for me is Developer workflow. Try sharing FLA's between a couple of developers. Using MXML and AS with CVS/SVN you can get tons of work done with out working about who has the latest file. Granted you could do this with Flash 8 professional and external AS files but that is also messy in its own right. Renaun --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Kirk Marple [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: we're looking to move our ASP.NET based application suite to Flash, and have been investigating the use of Flex 2 vs. just straight Flash 8 Pro. can anyone provide any feedback on what limitations you've seen when developing an RIA in Flex 2 vs. just straight Flash 8? we're trying to evaluate the pros/cons on going one way vs another. specifically, we like the Flex 2 layout capabilities and the ability to easily deal with XML and REST web services, but we seem to be constrained by the lack of scripted animations (from what i've heard) and ability to have a cinematic look/feel compared to Flash 8. also, it's video-heavy application and need the ability to do dynamic video assembly and playback. thanks for any input! Kirk -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ Kirk Marple Chief Software Architect, VP of Engineering Agnostic Media, Inc. e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: www.agnostic-media.com http://www.agnostic-media.com/ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex 2 limitations vs. raw Flash 8 Prof?
The fact of the matter is that it's not an either/or situation. You should use both. For the logic and coding you definitely want to be using Flex with SVN for obvious reasons, and for building the skins of the UI components to create the cinematic experience you want to be using Flash. On 10/4/06, Renaun Erickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A big one for me is Developer workflow. Try sharing FLA's between a couple of developers. Using MXML and AS with CVS/SVN you can get tons of work done with out working about who has the latest file. Granted you could do this with Flash 8 professional and external AS files but that is also messy in its own right. Renaun --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Kirk Marple [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: we're looking to move our ASP.NET based application suite to Flash, and have been investigating the use of Flex 2 vs. just straight Flash 8 Pro. can anyone provide any feedback on what limitations you've seen when developing an RIA in Flex 2 vs. just straight Flash 8? we're trying to evaluate the pros/cons on going one way vs another. specifically, we like the Flex 2 layout capabilities and the ability to easily deal with XML and REST web services, but we seem to be constrained by the lack of scripted animations (from what i've heard) and ability to have a cinematic look/feel compared to Flash 8. also, it's video-heavy application and need the ability to do dynamic video assembly and playback. thanks for any input! Kirk -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ Kirk Marple Chief Software Architect, VP of Engineering Agnostic Media, Inc. e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: www.agnostic-media.com http://www.agnostic-media.com/ __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Software development tool Software development Software development services Home design software Software development company Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
RE: [flexcoders] Re: Flex 2 limitations vs. raw Flash 8 Prof?
interesting... one of the issues brought up to me was how to get the nice cinematic feel w/ scripted animations, etc. in Flex. i was told that only simple looping animations were possible because we couldn't mix Flex running AS3 with scripted movies with AS2. maybe the new AS3 preview will solve that, since we could script animations using AS3 in regular Flash 8 Professional. am i totally off-base here in what i've been told? thanks, Kirk From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick CollinsSent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 1:58 PMTo: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex 2 limitations vs. raw Flash 8 Prof? The fact of the matter is that it's not an either/or situation. You should use both. For the logic and coding you definitely want to be using Flex with SVN for obvious reasons, and for building the skins of the UI components to create the "cinematic experience" you want to be using Flash. On 10/4/06, Renaun Erickson [EMAIL PROTECTED]com wrote: A big one for me is Developer workflow. Try sharing FLA's between acouple of developers. Using MXML and AS with CVS/SVN you can get tonsof work done with out working about who has the latest file. Grantedyou could do this with Flash 8 professional and external AS files butthat is also messy in its own right.Renaun--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com, "Kirk Marple" kirk-public@... wrote: we're looking to move our ASP.NET based application suite to Flash,and have been investigating the use of Flex 2 vs. just straight Flash 8 Pro. can anyone provide any feedback on what limitations you've seen when developing an RIA in Flex 2 vs. just straight Flash 8? we're trying to evaluate the pros/cons on going one way vs another. specifically, we like the Flex 2 layout capabilities and the ability to easily deal with XML and REST web services, but we seem to beconstrained by the lack of scripted animations (from what i've heard) and abilityto have a "cinematic" look/feel compared to Flash 8. also, it's video-heavy application and need the ability to do dynamic video assembly andplayback. thanks for any input! Kirk -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ Kirk Marple Chief Software Architect, VP of Engineering Agnostic Media, Inc. e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: www.agnostic-media.com http://www.agnostic-media.com/ __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Software development tool Software development Software development services Home design software Software development company Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
