RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline
This is a good point. I believe Adobe also tried to replicate a bug I was getting on Flex 2 builder, even when we didnt purchase the software yet. I was still testing it out and got excellent support. From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Impudent1 Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 7:47 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline .02 Well my experience is with the other adobe teams. BUT I have had devs/engineers call me on a sunday. On their own dime, to see what we could sort out regarding some persistant but hard to nail bugs. All the teams at adobe I have had the pleasure of working with have all busted themselves to make sure things were working. As for flex, we get a huge commitment just in them answering things on this list, not to mention all the adobe blogs with examples etc. I personally think anyone who cries for 24 hour personal tech service should be paying a hefty price for a yearly agreement ;) Impudent1 LeapFrog Productions __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Software development tool Software development Software development services Home design software Software development company YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline
Almost wish I hadn't asked :) Still it's nice to feel that Adobe are listening. Louie Penaflor wrote: This is a good point. I believe Adobe also tried to replicate a bug I was getting on Flex 2 builder, even when we didn’t purchase the software yet. I was still testing it out and got excellent support. *From:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Impudent1 *Sent:* Wednesday, August 30, 2006 7:47 PM *To:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* Re: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline .02 Well my experience is with the other adobe teams. BUT I have had devs/engineers call me on a sunday. On their own dime, to see what we could sort out regarding some persistant but hard to nail bugs. All the teams at adobe I have had the pleasure of working with have all busted themselves to make sure things were working. As for flex, we get a huge commitment just in them answering things on this list, not to mention all the adobe blogs with examples etc. I personally think anyone who cries for 24 hour personal tech service should be paying a hefty price for a yearly agreement ;) Impudent1 LeapFrog Productions -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline
Are there specific bugs youre looking to be addressed? Based on direct feedback as well as observation from the various public forums weve been pretty pleased with the quality of the release so weve held off on rushing out an updater while we work on things like the Mac release of Flex Builder. Doesnt mean were not fixing bugs, but weve decided to try to address more issues in a longer cycle rather than fewer issues quickly. If theres a specific issue that is blocking your work use the wish form (http://www.adobe.com/go/wish) to submit it and indicate so. There are also plenty of official support options available to help as well (http://www.adobe.com/support/programs/flex/?tab:plans=1) Matt From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Adam Reynolds Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 2:44 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Before I dive headlong into my first full Flex 2 project, can anybody from Adobe give me an update as to when/if there will be a patch for Flex 2? Adam __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Software development tool Software development Software development services Home design software Software development company YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline
Matt or anyone else at Adobe. I agree that the quality of Flex Builder 2 is good . . . . very good . . . . however . . . . I know nothing will probably change since Adobe is the big software company, and I am only a single customer(Flex Builder 2 w/charting), but this position disturbs me. It reminds me of the construction industry when a contractor builds or remodels myhouse. I have paid for the work and I find problems but the contractor is off working on another house and doesn't have the time or resources to fix the problems in a timely manner. To be honest,I could care less about a Mac version . . . . AND I know those wanting a Mac version could care less about a Windows version. So please no bashing from the Mac side. It appears that Adobe has not allocated enough resources to the development team where they can have 2 groups. As I recall, it was said on this forum, soon afterFlex 2 was released the development team received new Macs to begin work on a Mac version. Why did Adobe not already have a plan and resources in place. This type of thing is done all the time. While I do not expect that every single bug be issued a "release patch",it would be very nice and customer friendly to have a bug fix release plan in place and implement that plan. Especially in the first 6-9 months of a major release. I haven't encountered a bug that I know of. But when I do, I willprobably have spent many hours or days thinking I did notwrite the code right only to find out later is was a bug. Wasted time . . . . money. I have said this before, but I would not have a single customer if I told them I could not fix the software they purchased because I was working on another version. I really do not understand why large software companies employ this type of bug fix and update plan. I only hope Adobe will rethink their strategy and implementation of releasing bug fixes. My .02 or actually $ 749 for Flex Builder 2 w/charting. Thanks, Jack From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt ChotinSent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:21 AMTo: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Are there specific bugs youre looking to be addressed? Based on direct feedback as well as observation from the various public forums weve been pretty pleased with the quality of the release so weve held off on rushing out an updater while we work on things like the Mac release of Flex Builder. Doesnt mean were not fixing bugs, but weve decided to try to address more issues in a longer cycle rather than fewer issues quickly. If theres a specific issue that is blocking your work use the wish form (http://www.adobe.com/go/wish) to submit it and indicate so. There are also plenty of official support options available to help as well (http://www.adobe.com/support/programs/flex/?tab:plans=1) Matt From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com] On Behalf Of Adam ReynoldsSent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 2:44 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.comSubject: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Before I dive headlong into my first full Flex 2 project, can anybody from Adobe give me an update as to when/if there will be a patch for Flex 2?Adam __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Software development tool Software development Software development services Home design software Software development company YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline
Jack- I think you misunderstand what Matt said. He didn't say they aren't working on fixes, he said it hasnt been their top priority. If you have an issue, he recommended you contact their support team. I have said this before, but I would not have a single customer if I told them I could not fix the software they purchased because I was working on another version. Again, its not an issue of not being able to fix bugs, many companies have a process in place to allow for handling their customers needs. In the adobe case, if something isnt working as you would expect, there is the support channel. drop them an email or give them a call, and they can help solve the issue you are having. They are the ones who are best able to determine if you are doing something wrong, or if its a bug in the code which needs to be fixed. I wouldnt be at all surprised if their were a number of minor patches available through the support channels. I dont know that there are, but if I were them, and I had a few fixes to specific bugs that havent been reported by the community at large, but instead by a few customers, I would probably give the fixes as needed, rather than make a whole new big push. Then again, thats just my thought process. Sadly, I dont have a whole support team working for me, so i need to deal with bugs in my code as they crop up. At 03:18 PM 8/30/2006, Jack Caldwell wrote: Matt or anyone else at Adobe. I agree that the quality of Flex Builder 2 is good . . . . very good . . . . however . . . . I know nothing will probably change since Adobe is the big software company, and I am only a single customer(Flex Builder 2 w/charting), but this position disturbs me. It reminds me of the construction industry when a contractor builds or remodels my house. I have paid for the work and I find problems but the contractor is off working on another house and doesn't have the time or resources to fix the problems in a timely manner. To be honest, I could care less about a Mac version . . . . AND I know those wanting a Mac version could care less about a Windows version. So please no bashing from the Mac side. It appears that Adobe has not allocated enough resources to the development team where they can have 2 groups. As I recall, it was said on this forum, soon after Flex 2 was released the development team received new Macs to begin work on a Mac version. Why did Adobe not already have a plan and resources in place. This type of thing is done all the time. While I do not expect that every single bug be issued a release patch, it would be very nice and customer friendly to have a bug fix release plan in place and implement that plan. Especially in the first 6-9 months of a major release. I haven't encountered a bug that I know of. But when I do, I will probably have spent many hours or days thinking I did not write the code right only to find out later is was a bug. Wasted time . . . . money. I have said this before, but I would not have a single customer if I told them I could not fix the software they purchased because I was working on another version. I really do not understand why large software companies employ this type of bug fix and update plan. I only hope Adobe will rethink their strategy and implementation of releasing bug fixes. My .02 or actually $ 749 for Flex Builder 2 w/charting. Thanks, Jack From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [ mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Matt Chotin Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:21 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Are there specific bugs youre looking to be addressed? Based on direct feedback as well as observation from the various public forums weve been pretty pleased with the quality of the release so weve held off on rushing out an updater while we work on things like the Mac release of Flex Builder. Doesnt mean were not fixing bugs, but weve decided to try to address more issues in a longer cycle rather than fewer issues quickly. If theres a specific issue that is blocking your work use the wish form (http://www.adobe.com/go/wish) to submit it and indicate so. There are also plenty of official support options available to help as well ( http://www.adobe.com/support/programs/flex/?tab:plans=1) Matt From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [ mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Adam Reynolds Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 2:44 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Before I dive headlong into my first full Flex 2 project, can anybody from Adobe give me an update as to when/if there will be a patch for Flex 2? Adam __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Software development
RE: [Junk E-Mail - LOW] RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline
Who says they're not going to roll out MacOScompatibility and bug fixes for Windows all in one package? Just like when the ColdFusion team was doing MacOS work... it applied to the Windows Linux versions too. Shan From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack CaldwellSent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 2:18 PMTo: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: [Junk E-Mail - LOW] RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Matt or anyone else at Adobe. I agree that the quality of Flex Builder 2 is good . . . . very good . . . . however . . . . I know nothing will probably change since Adobe is the big software company, and I am only a single customer(Flex Builder 2 w/charting), but this position disturbs me. It reminds me of the construction industry when a contractor builds or remodels myhouse. I have paid for the work and I find problems but the contractor is off working on another house and doesn't have the time or resources to fix the problems in a timely manner. To be honest,I could care less about a Mac version . . . . AND I know those wanting a Mac version could care less about a Windows version. So please no bashing from the Mac side. It appears that Adobe has not allocated enough resources to the development team where they can have 2 groups. As I recall, it was said on this forum, soon afterFlex 2 was released the development team received new Macs to begin work on a Mac version. Why did Adobe not already have a plan and resources in place. This type of thing is done all the time. While I do not expect that every single bug be issued a "release patch",it would be very nice and customer friendly to have a bug fix release plan in place and implement that plan. Especially in the first 6-9 months of a major release. I haven't encountered a bug that I know of. But when I do, I willprobably have spent many hours or days thinking I did notwrite the code right only to find out later is was a bug. Wasted time . . . . money. I have said this before, but I would not have a single customer if I told them I could not fix the software they purchased because I was working on another version. I really do not understand why large software companies employ this type of bug fix and update plan. I only hope Adobe will rethink their strategy and implementation of releasing bug fixes. My .02 or actually $ 749 for Flex Builder 2 w/charting. Thanks, Jack From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Matt ChotinSent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:21 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.comSubject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Are there specific bugs youre looking to be addressed? Based on direct feedback as well as observation from the various public forums weve been pretty pleased with the quality of the release so weve held off on rushing out an updater while we work on things like the Mac release of Flex Builder. Doesnt mean were not fixing bugs, but weve decided to try to address more issues in a longer cycle rather than fewer issues quickly. If theres a specific issue that is blocking your work use the wish form (http://www.adobe.com/go/wish) to submit it and indicate so. There are also plenty of official support options available to help as well (http://www.adobe.com/support/programs/flex/?tab:plans=1) Matt From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com] On Behalf Of Adam ReynoldsSent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 2:44 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.comSubject: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Before I dive headlong into my first full Flex 2 project, can anybody from Adobe give me an update as to when/if there will be a patch for Flex 2?Adam --No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/432 - Release Date: 8/29/2006 __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Software development tool Software development Software development services Home design software Software development company YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/432 - Release Date: 8/29/2006
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline
Jeff: I fully understood what Matt was saying. That's just it . . . . it is not a top priority. The issue is that Adobe is fixing the bugs, but not releasing them. We as developers have to try to figure it out then call support, etc. That could take hours or days of my time. It's wasted time and money. I am like you, I don't have a large support staff either. My position, for over 27 years,has always been . . . . find a bug send ALL customers a fix ASAP. Not waiting for a customer to call me. Again, in the first 6-9 months after a major release, I think there should be a different release plan in place. Thanks, Jack From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeff TapperSent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 2:32 PMTo: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com; flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Jack-I think you misunderstand what Matt said. He didn't say they aren't working on fixes, he said it hasnt been their top priority. If you have an issue, he recommended you contact their support team. I have said this before, but I would not have a single customer if I told them I could not fix the software they purchased because I was working on another version.Again, its not an issue of not being able to fix bugs, many companies have a process in place to allow for handling their customers needs. In the adobe case, if something isnt working as you would expect, there is the support channel. drop them an email or give them a call, and they can help solve the issue you are having. They are the ones who are best able to determine if you are doing something wrong, or if its a bug in the code which needs to be fixed. I wouldnt be at all surprised if their were a number of minor patches available through the support channels. I dont know that there are, but if I were them, and I had a few fixes to specific bugs that havent been reported by the community at large, but instead by a few customers, I would probably give the fixes as needed, rather than make a whole new big push. Then again, thats just my thought process. Sadly, I dont have a whole support team working for me, so i need to deal with bugs in my code as they crop up.At 03:18 PM 8/30/2006, Jack Caldwell wrote: Matt or anyone else at Adobe.I agree that the quality of Flex Builder 2 is good . . . . very good . . . . however . . . .I know nothing will probably change since Adobe is the big software company, and I am only a single customer(Flex Builder 2 w/charting), but this position disturbs me.It reminds me of the construction industry when a contractor builds or remodels my house. I have paid for the work and I find problems but the contractor is off working on another house and doesn't have the time or resources to fix the problems in a timely manner.To be honest, I could care less about a Mac version . . . . AND I know those wanting a Mac version could care less about a Windows version. So please no bashing from the Mac side.It appears that Adobe has not allocated enough resources to the development team where they can have 2 groups. As I recall, it was said on this forum, soon after Flex 2 was released the development teamreceived new Macs to begin work on a Mac version.Why did Adobe not already have a plan and resources in place. This type of thing is done all the time.While I do not expect that every single bug be issued a "release patch", it would be very nice and customer friendly to have a bug fix release plan in place and implement that plan. Especially in the first 6-9 months ofa major release.I haven't encountered a bug that I know of. But when I do, I will probably have spent many hours or days thinking I did not write the code right only to find out later is was a bug. Wasted time . . . . money.I have said this before, but I would not have a single customer if I told them I could not fix the software they purchased because I was working on another version.I really do not understand why large software companies employ this type of bug fix and update plan.I only hope Adobe will rethink their strategy and implementation of releasing bug fixes.My .02 or actually $ 749 for Flex Builder 2 w/charting.Thanks,Jack From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com [ mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Matt ChotinSent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:21 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.comSubject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timelineAre there specific bugs youre looking to be addressed? Based on direct feedback as well as observation from the various public forums weve been pretty pleased with the quality of the release so weve held off on rushing out an updater while we work on things like the Mac release of Flex Builder. Doesnt mean were not fixing bugs, but weve decided to try to address more issues in a longer cycle rather than fewer issues
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline
On 8/30/06, Jack Caldwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeff: I fully understood what Matt was saying. That's just it . . . . it is not a top priority. The issue is that Adobe is fixing the bugs, but not releasing them.Jack,With any big software project, there are **always** bugs. Typically hundreds. You *never* get down to zero and rarely even into the dozens. The question is how many of them are there and how important are they. You cant put a new release out every time there is a bug. So you have to decide when a good time to do it is. If there are major and important bugs to fix, you put a release out. But you cant do that weekly. Thats why its important for them to know if there are any showstopper or really important bugs. So Matt's question was important. Are there any bad bugs that they dont know about? It makes total sense to me, if there are no major bugs, to wait and put out a new release in 4 or 5 months. New releases are organizationally traumatic. And they are also not risk free. It is always possible to introduce new bad bugs while fixing old not so important ones. So waiting a while and being sure everything is right with a full QA cycle is not a bad thing at all. Doing that around a major change like mac support (which will also effect the windows version because its the same codebase) seems like the right thing to do if there are no major problems. RegardsHank __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Software development tool Software development Software development services Home design software Software development company YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
RE: [Junk E-Mail - LOW] RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline
"My position, for over 27 years,has always been . . . . find a bug send ALL customersa fix ASAP." If you do that, then when do you get time to develop new versions of the product? At some point you have to make a tradeoff... Adobe's tradeoff was to get the Windows version out the door sooner rather than later, andthen add other OS compatibility afterwards. They were pretty clear about that even during the beta. Shan From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack CaldwellSent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 3:00 PMTo: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: [Junk E-Mail - LOW] RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Jeff: I fully understood what Matt was saying. That's just it . . . . it is not a top priority. The issue is that Adobe is fixing the bugs, but not releasing them. We as developers have to try to figure it out then call support, etc. That could take hours or days of my time. It's wasted time and money. I am like you, I don't have a large support staff either. My position, for over 27 years,has always been . . . . find a bug send ALL customers a fix ASAP. Not waiting for a customer to call me. Again, in the first 6-9 months after a major release, I think there should be a different release plan in place. Thanks, Jack From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff TapperSent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 2:32 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.comSubject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Jack-I think you misunderstand what Matt said. He didn't say they aren't working on fixes, he said it hasnt been their top priority. If you have an issue, he recommended you contact their support team. I have said this before, but I would not have a single customer if I told them I could not fix the software they purchased because I was working on another version.Again, its not an issue of not being able to fix bugs, many companies have a process in place to allow for handling their customers needs. In the adobe case, if something isnt working as you would expect, there is the support channel. drop them an email or give them a call, and they can help solve the issue you are having. They are the ones who are best able to determine if you are doing something wrong, or if its a bug in the code which needs to be fixed. I wouldnt be at all surprised if their were a number of minor patches available through the support channels. I dont know that there are, but if I were them, and I had a few fixes to specific bugs that havent been reported by the community at large, but instead by a few customers, I would probably give the fixes as needed, rather than make a whole new big push. Then again, thats just my thought process. Sadly, I dont have a whole support team working for me, so i need to deal with bugs in my code as they crop up.At 03:18 PM 8/30/2006, Jack Caldwell wrote: Matt or anyone else at Adobe.I agree that the quality of Flex Builder 2 is good . . . . very good . . . . however . . . .I know nothing will probably change since Adobe is the big software company, and I am only a single customer(Flex Builder 2 w/charting), but this position disturbs me.It reminds me of the construction industry when a contractor builds or remodels my house. I have paid for the work and I find problems but the contractor is off working on another house and doesn't have the time or resources to fix the problems in a timely manner.To be honest, I could care less about a Mac version . . . . AND I know those wanting a Mac version could care less about a Windows version. So please no bashing from the Mac side.It appears that Adobe has not allocated enough resources to the development team where they can have 2 groups. As I recall, it was said on this forum, soon after Flex 2 was released the development teamreceived new Macs to begin work on a Mac version.Why did Adobe not already have a plan and resources in place. This type of thing is done all the time.While I do not expect that every single bug be issued a "release patch", it would be very nice and customer friendly to have a bug fix release plan in place and implement that plan. Especially in the first 6-9 months ofa major release.I haven't encountered a bug that I know of. But when I do, I will probably have spent many hours or days thinking I did not write the code right only to find out later is was a bug. Wasted time . . . . money.I have said this before, but I would not have a single customer if I told them I could not fix the software they purchased because I was working on another version.I really do not understand why large software companies employ this type of bug fix and update plan.I only hope Adobe will rethink their strategy and implementation of releasing bug fixes.My .02 or actually $ 749 for Flex Builder 2 w/charting.T
RE: [Junk E-Mail - LOW] RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline
Yes, that is the plan. At the same time the Mac release comes out we will be upgrading the Windows release with bug fixes. Mac and Windows will be synchronized at that point moving forward. Hank has stated my position very nicely with regard to the other points. Matt From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Shannon Hicks Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 12:45 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Junk E-Mail - LOW] RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Who says they're not going to roll out MacOScompatibility and bug fixes for Windows all in one package? Just like when the ColdFusion team was doing MacOS work... it applied to the Windows Linux versions too. Shan From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jack Caldwell Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 2:18 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com Subject: [Junk E-Mail - LOW] RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Matt or anyone else at Adobe. I agree that the quality of Flex Builder 2 is good . . . . very good . . . . however . . . . I know nothing will probably change since Adobe is the big software company, and I am only a single customer(Flex Builder 2 w/charting), but this position disturbs me. It reminds me of the construction industry when a contractor builds or remodels myhouse. I have paid for the work and I find problems but the contractor is off working on another house and doesn't have the time or resources to fix the problems in a timely manner. To be honest,I could care less about a Mac version . . . . AND I know those wanting a Mac version could care less about a Windows version. So please no bashing from the Mac side. It appears that Adobe has not allocated enough resources to the development team where they can have 2 groups. As I recall, it was said on this forum, soon afterFlex 2 was released the development team received new Macs to begin work on a Mac version. Why did Adobe not already have a plan and resources in place. This type of thing is done all the time. While I do not expect that every single bug be issued a release patch,it would be very nice and customer friendly to have a bug fix release plan in place and implement that plan. Especially in the first 6-9 months of a major release. I haven't encountered a bug that I know of. But when I do, I willprobably have spent many hours or days thinking I did notwrite the code right only to find out later is was a bug. Wasted time . . . . money. I have said this before, but I would not have a single customer if I told them I could not fix the software they purchased because I was working on another version. I really do not understand why large software companies employ this type of bug fix and update plan. I only hope Adobe will rethink their strategy and implementation of releasing bug fixes. My .02 or actually $ 749 for Flex Builder 2 w/charting. Thanks, Jack From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Matt Chotin Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:21 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Are there specific bugs youre looking to be addressed? Based on direct feedback as well as observation from the various public forums weve been pretty pleased with the quality of the release so weve held off on rushing out an updater while we work on things like the Mac release of Flex Builder. Doesnt mean were not fixing bugs, but weve decided to try to address more issues in a longer cycle rather than fewer issues quickly. If theres a specific issue that is blocking your work use the wish form (http://www.adobe.com/go/wish) to submit it and indicate so. There are also plenty of official support options available to help as well (http://www.adobe.com/support/programs/flex/?tab:plans=1) Matt From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com] On Behalf Of Adam Reynolds Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 2:44 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Before I dive headlong into my first full Flex 2 project, can anybody from Adobe give me an update as to when/if there will be a patch for Flex 2? Adam -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/432 - Release Date: 8/29/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/432 - Release Date: 8/29/2006 __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Software development tool
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline
Jack, I don't think you appreciate what a nightmare that would be for any development company. The sheer overhead of doing what you suggest would be immense. I don't know of a software company of any kind that operates like that. I think you've had the wrong position for 27 years.. Paul - Original Message - From: Jack Caldwell To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 8:59 PM Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Jeff: I fully understood what Matt was saying. That's just it . . . . it is not a top priority. The issue is that Adobe is fixing the bugs, but not releasing them. We as developers have to try to figure it out then call support, etc. That could take hours or days of my time. It's wasted time and money. I am like you, I don't have a large support staff either. My position, for over 27 years,has always been . . . . find a bug send ALL customers a fix ASAP. Not waiting for a customer to call me. Again, in the first 6-9 months after a major release, I think there should be a different release plan in place. Thanks, Jack From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeff TapperSent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 2:32 PMTo: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com; flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Jack-I think you misunderstand what Matt said. He didn't say they aren't working on fixes, he said it hasnt been their top priority. If you have an issue, he recommended you contact their support team. I have said this before, but I would not have a single customer if I told them I could not fix the software they purchased because I was working on another version.Again, its not an issue of not being able to fix bugs, many companies have a process in place to allow for handling their customers needs. In the adobe case, if something isnt working as you would expect, there is the support channel. drop them an email or give them a call, and they can help solve the issue you are having. They are the ones who are best able to determine if you are doing something wrong, or if its a bug in the code which needs to be fixed. I wouldnt be at all surprised if their were a number of minor patches available through the support channels. I dont know that there are, but if I were them, and I had a few fixes to specific bugs that havent been reported by the community at large, but instead by a few customers, I would probably give the fixes as needed, rather than make a whole new big push. Then again, thats just my thought process. Sadly, I dont have a whole support team working for me, so i need to deal with bugs in my code as they crop up.At 03:18 PM 8/30/2006, Jack Caldwell wrote: Matt or anyone else at Adobe.I agree that the quality of Flex Builder 2 is good . . . . very good . . . . however . . . .I know nothing will probably change since Adobe is the big software company, and I am only a single customer(Flex Builder 2 w/charting), but this position disturbs me.It reminds me of the construction industry when a contractor builds or remodels my house. I have paid for the work and I find problems but the contractor is off working on another house and doesn't have the time or resources to fix the problems in a timely manner.To be honest, I could care less about a Mac version . . . . AND I know those wanting a Mac version could care less about a Windows version. So please no bashing from the Mac side.It appears that Adobe has not allocated enough resources to the development team where they can have 2 groups. As I recall, it was said on this forum, soon after Flex 2 was released the development teamreceived new Macs to begin work on a Mac version.Why did Adobe not already have a plan and resources in place. This type of thing is done all the time.While I do not expect that every single bug be issued a "release patch", it would be very nice and customer friendly to have a bug fix release plan in place and implement that plan. Especially in the first 6-9 months ofa major release.I haven't encountered a bug that I know of. But when I do, I will probably have spent many hours or days thinking I did not write the code right only to find out later is was a bug. Wasted time . . . . money.I have said this before, but I would not have a single customer if I told them I could not fix the software they purchased because I was working on another version.I really do not understand why large software companies employ this type of bug fix and update plan.I only hope Adobe will rethink their strategy and implementation of releasing bug fixes.My .02 or actually $ 749 for Flex Builder 2 w/charting.T
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline
Paul: Well . . . . . I must be doing something right . . . . for 27 years. If you read my post completely I said I did not expect Adobe to be as quick on fixes as I have been. It would only be a nightmare, if they did not plan properly. Maybe I just know how to plan and implement at a faster pace. But thanks just the same. Jack From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul AndrewsSent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 3:55 PMTo: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Jack, I don't think you appreciate what a nightmare that would be for any development company. The sheer overhead of doing what you suggest would be immense. I don't know of a software company of any kind that operates like that. I think you've had the wrong position for 27 years.. Paul - Original Message - From: Jack Caldwell To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 8:59 PM Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Jeff: I fully understood what Matt was saying. That's just it . . . . it is not a top priority. The issue is that Adobe is fixing the bugs, but not releasing them. We as developers have to try to figure it out then call support, etc. That could take hours or days of my time. It's wasted time and money. I am like you, I don't have a large support staff either. My position, for over 27 years,has always been . . . . find a bug send ALL customers a fix ASAP. Not waiting for a customer to call me. Again, in the first 6-9 months after a major release, I think there should be a different release plan in place. Thanks, Jack From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff TapperSent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 2:32 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.comSubject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Jack-I think you misunderstand what Matt said. He didn't say they aren't working on fixes, he said it hasnt been their top priority. If you have an issue, he recommended you contact their support team. I have said this before, but I would not have a single customer if I told them I could not fix the software they purchased because I was working on another version.Again, its not an issue of not being able to fix bugs, many companies have a process in place to allow for handling their customers needs. In the adobe case, if something isnt working as you would expect, there is the support channel. drop them an email or give them a call, and they can help solve the issue you are having. They are the ones who are best able to determine if you are doing something wrong, or if its a bug in the code which needs to be fixed. I wouldnt be at all surprised if their were a number of minor patches available through the support channels. I dont know that there are, but if I were them, and I had a few fixes to specific bugs that havent been reported by the community at large, but instead by a few customers, I would probably give the fixes as needed, rather than make a whole new big push. Then again, thats just my thought process. Sadly, I dont have a whole support team working for me, so i need to deal with bugs in my code as they crop up.At 03:18 PM 8/30/2006, Jack Caldwell wrote: Matt or anyone else at Adobe.I agree that the quality of Flex Builder 2 is good . . . . very good . . . . however . . . .I know nothing will probably change since Adobe is the big software company, and I am only a single customer(Flex Builder 2 w/charting), but this position disturbs me.It reminds me of the construction industry when a contractor builds or remodels my house. I have paid for the work and I find problems but the contractor is off working on another house and doesn't have the time or resources to fix the problems in a timely manner.To be honest, I could care less about a Mac version . . . . AND I know those wanting a Mac version could care less about a Windows version. So please no bashing from the Mac side.It appears that Adobe has not allocated enough resources to the development team where they can have 2 groups. As I recall, it was said on this forum, soon after Flex 2 was released the development teamreceived new Macs to begin work on a Mac version.Why did Adobe not already have a plan and resources in place. This type of thing is done all the time.While I do not expect that every single bug be issued a "release patch", it would be very nice and customer friendly to have a bug fix release plan in place and implement that plan. Especially in the first 6-9 months ofa major release.I haven't encountered a bug that I know of. But when I do, I will probably have spent many hours or days
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline
Hank: I know there will ** always **be bugs. Nobody writes bug free code. If small software companies can implement quick fixes then with proper planning, due diligence and implementation so can large software companies. Oh, by the way smaller software companies have QA too. Again, no offense to the Mac community, but I work in Windows and I only care about the Windows product. It doesn't really matter what I think because the mind set of large software companies is not one of agility as would be the case for smaller software companies. But it could be. There is another word I could use for the mind set of larger software companies, but I will leave that for another time. Adobe is not going to change it's mind, but I felt compelled to at least try. Thanks, Jack From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of hank williamsSent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 3:12 PMTo: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline On 8/30/06, Jack Caldwell [EMAIL PROTECTED]com wrote: Jeff: I fully understood what Matt was saying. That's just it . . . . it is not a top priority. The issue is that Adobe is fixing the bugs, but not releasing them. Jack,With any big software project, there are **always** bugs. Typically hundreds. You *never* get down to zero and rarely even into the dozens. The question is how many of them are there and how important are they. You cant put a new release out every time there is a bug. So you have to decide when a good time to do it is. If there are major and important bugs to fix, you put a release out. But you cant do that weekly. Thats why its important for them to know if there are any showstopper or really important bugs. So Matt's question was important. Are there any bad bugs that they dont know about? It makes total sense to me, if there are no major bugs, to wait and put out a new release in 4 or 5 months. New releases are organizationally traumatic. And they are also not risk free. It is always possible to introduce new bad bugs while fixing old not so important ones. So waiting a while and being sure everything is right with a full QA cycle is not a bad thing at all. Doing that around a major change like mac support (which will also effect the windows version because its the same codebase) seems like the right thing to do if there are no major problems. RegardsHank __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Software development tool Software development Software development services Home design software Software development company YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline
I figure Adobe Labs would be a great middle ground for this sort of thing Put the fixes out there for the early adopters (with the appropriate warnings) and then make official releases less often. After all, its not like these fixes are Player revisions. From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hank williams Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:12 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline On 8/30/06, Jack Caldwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeff: I fully understood what Matt was saying. That's just it . . . . it is not a top priority. The issue is that Adobe is fixing the bugs, but not releasing them. Jack, With any big software project, there are **always** bugs. Typically hundreds. You *never* get down to zero and rarely even into the dozens. The question is how many of them are there and how important are they. You cant put a new release out every time there is a bug. So you have to decide when a good time to do it is. If there are major and important bugs to fix, you put a release out. But you cant do that weekly. Thats why its important for them to know if there are any showstopper or really important bugs. So Matt's question was important. Are there any bad bugs that they dont know about? It makes total sense to me, if there are no major bugs, to wait and put out a new release in 4 or 5 months. New releases are organizationally traumatic. And they are also not risk free. It is always possible to introduce new bad bugs while fixing old not so important ones. So waiting a while and being sure everything is right with a full QA cycle is not a bad thing at all. Doing that around a major change like mac support (which will also effect the windows version because its the same codebase) seems like the right thing to do if there are no major problems. Regards Hank __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Software development tool Software development Software development services Home design software Software development company YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline
Tom: Great suggestion. Thanks, Jack From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom LeeSent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:15 PMTo: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline I figure Adobe Labs would be a great middle ground for this sort of thing Put the fixes out there for the early adopters (with the appropriate warnings) and then make official releases less often. After all, its not like these fixes are Player revisions. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com] On Behalf Of hank williamsSent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:12 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.comSubject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline On 8/30/06, Jack Caldwell [EMAIL PROTECTED]com wrote: Jeff: I fully understood what Matt was saying. That's just it . . . . it is not a top priority. The issue is that Adobe is fixing the bugs, but not releasing them. Jack,With any big software project, there are **always** bugs. Typically hundreds. You *never* get down to zero and rarely even into the dozens. The question is how many of them are there and how important are they. You cant put a new release out every time there is a bug. So you have to decide when a good time to do it is. If there are major and important bugs to fix, you put a release out. But you cant do that weekly. Thats why its important for them to know if there are any showstopper or really important bugs. So Matt's question was important. Are there any bad bugs that they dont know about? It makes total sense to me, if there are no major bugs, to wait and put out a new release in 4 or 5 months. New releases are organizationally traumatic. And they are also not risk free. It is always possible to introduce new bad bugs while fixing old not so important ones. So waiting a while and being sure everything is right with a full QA cycle is not a bad thing at all. Doing that around a major change like mac support (which will also effect the windows version because its the same codebase) seems like the right thing to do if there are no major problems. RegardsHank __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Software development tool Software development Software development services Home design software Software development company YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline
Given what they are doing, this might be hard as they are making changes to accomodate the mac that I am sure are often causing breaking the build. That is just a guess of course but if the mac support is as hard as I think it is they would have to fork the build in order to do this. Oh and the other problem is that the *would* have to support it. But that said, its not a bad idea. Its just that the devil is in the details.RegardsHankOn 8/30/06, Tom Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I figure Adobe Labs would be a great middle ground for this sort of thing – Put the fixes out there for the early adopters (with the appropriate warnings) and then make official releases less often. After all, it's not like these fixes are Player revisions. From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hank williams Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:12 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline On 8/30/06, Jack Caldwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeff: I fully understood what Matt was saying. That's just it . . . . it is not a top priority. The issue is that Adobe is fixing the bugs, but not releasing them. Jack, With any big software project, there are **always** bugs. Typically hundreds. You *never* get down to zero and rarely even into the dozens. The question is how many of them are there and how important are they. You cant put a new release out every time there is a bug. So you have to decide when a good time to do it is. If there are major and important bugs to fix, you put a release out. But you cant do that weekly. Thats why its important for them to know if there are any showstopper or really important bugs. So Matt's question was important. Are there any bad bugs that they dont know about? It makes total sense to me, if there are no major bugs, to wait and put out a new release in 4 or 5 months. New releases are organizationally traumatic. And they are also not risk free. It is always possible to introduce new bad bugs while fixing old not so important ones. So waiting a while and being sure everything is right with a full QA cycle is not a bad thing at all. Doing that around a major change like mac support (which will also effect the windows version because its the same codebase) seems like the right thing to do if there are no major problems. Regards Hank __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Software development tool Software development Software development services Home design software Software development company YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline
On 8/30/06, Jack Caldwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hank: I know there will ** always **be bugs. Nobody writes bug free code. If small software companies can implement quick fixes then with proper planning, due diligence and implementation so can large software companies.You missed my point, which is that I am sure in Flex Builder there are hundreds of bugs that they have *decided* not to fix because it isnt worth it right now. There are other bugs they have fixed that they have *decided* its not important enough to push out right away. Your *specific* input could change that if you have an important bug that could change that calculus. But you have yet to offer any specifics. Its all a bit theoretical and therefore this discussion doesnt make a lot of sense since you cant make decisions like these without discussing the actual bugs (as I am sure they do daily at Adobe). Oh, by the way smaller software companies have QA too. I dont know where this came from as I never said anything about this subject at all.Regards,Hank __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Software development tool Software development Software development services Home design software Software development company YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline
Jack, I suspect that you don't run a company of quite the same size of Adobe. f you have one or two customers you can just issue a fix as soon as you've done QA. When you have thousands you have major distribution and support overheads that get more costly as you go on. It's not a question of knowing how to plan, it's big number logistics. Your not the only one whose been in software development for 27 yearseither.. Paul - Original Message - From: Jack Caldwell To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:10 PM Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Paul: Well . . . . . I must be doing something right . . . . for 27 years. If you read my post completely I said I did not expect Adobe to be as quick on fixes as I have been. It would only be a nightmare, if they did not plan properly. Maybe I just know how to plan and implement at a faster pace. But thanks just the same. Jack From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul AndrewsSent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 3:55 PMTo: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Jack, I don't think you appreciate what a nightmare that would be for any development company. The sheer overhead of doing what you suggest would be immense. I don't know of a software company of any kind that operates like that. I think you've had the wrong position for 27 years.. Paul - Original Message - From: Jack Caldwell To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 8:59 PM Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Jeff: I fully understood what Matt was saying. That's just it . . . . it is not a top priority. The issue is that Adobe is fixing the bugs, but not releasing them. We as developers have to try to figure it out then call support, etc. That could take hours or days of my time. It's wasted time and money. I am like you, I don't have a large support staff either. My position, for over 27 years,has always been . . . . find a bug send ALL customers a fix ASAP. Not waiting for a customer to call me. Again, in the first 6-9 months after a major release, I think there should be a different release plan in place. Thanks, Jack From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff TapperSent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 2:32 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.comSubject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Jack-I think you misunderstand what Matt said. He didn't say they aren't working on fixes, he said it hasnt been their top priority. If you have an issue, he recommended you contact their support team. I have said this before, but I would not have a single customer if I told them I could not fix the software they purchased because I was working on another version.Again, its not an issue of not being able to fix bugs, many companies have a process in place to allow for handling their customers needs. In the adobe case, if something isnt working as you would expect, there is the support channel. drop them an email or give them a call, and they can help solve the issue you are having. They are the ones who are best able to determine if you are doing something wrong, or if its a bug in the code which needs to be fixed. I wouldnt be at all surprised if their were a number of minor patches available through the support channels. I dont know that there are, but if I were them, and I had a few fixes to specific bugs that havent been reported by the community at large, but instead by a few customers, I would probably give the fixes as needed, rather than make a whole new big push. Then again, thats just my thought process. Sadly, I dont have a whole support team working for me, so i need to deal with bugs in my code as they crop up.At 03:18 PM 8/30/2006, Jack Caldwell wrote: Matt or anyone else at Adobe.I agree that the quality of Flex Builder 2 is good . . . . very good . . . . however . . . .I know nothing will probably change since Adobe is the big software company, and I am only a single customer(Flex Builder 2 w/charting), but this position disturbs me.It reminds me of the construction industry when a contractor builds or remodels my house. I have paid for the work and I find problems but the contractor is off working on another house and doesn't have the time or resources to fix the problems in a timely manner.To be honest, I could care less about a Mac version
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline
Paul: I have 200+ customers. But as I said before, this isn't going to change anything, so in the future I will just keep my opinions to myself. Thanks for your opinion. Jack From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul AndrewsSent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:40 PMTo: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Jack, I suspect that you don't run a company of quite the same size of Adobe. f you have one or two customers you can just issue a fix as soon as you've done QA. When you have thousands you have major distribution and support overheads that get more costly as you go on. It's not a question of knowing how to plan, it's big number logistics. Your not the only one whose been in software development for 27 yearseither.. Paul - Original Message - From: Jack Caldwell To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:10 PM Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Paul: Well . . . . . I must be doing something right . . . . for 27 years. If you read my post completely I said I did not expect Adobe to be as quick on fixes as I have been. It would only be a nightmare, if they did not plan properly. Maybe I just know how to plan and implement at a faster pace. But thanks just the same. Jack From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul AndrewsSent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 3:55 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.comSubject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Jack, I don't think you appreciate what a nightmare that would be for any development company. The sheer overhead of doing what you suggest would be immense. I don't know of a software company of any kind that operates like that. I think you've had the wrong position for 27 years.. Paul - Original Message - From: Jack Caldwell To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 8:59 PM Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Jeff: I fully understood what Matt was saying. That's just it . . . . it is not a top priority. The issue is that Adobe is fixing the bugs, but not releasing them. We as developers have to try to figure it out then call support, etc. That could take hours or days of my time. It's wasted time and money. I am like you, I don't have a large support staff either. My position, for over 27 years,has always been . . . . find a bug send ALL customers a fix ASAP. Not waiting for a customer to call me. Again, in the first 6-9 months after a major release, I think there should be a different release plan in place. Thanks, Jack From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff TapperSent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 2:32 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.comSubject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Jack-I think you misunderstand what Matt said. He didn't say they aren't working on fixes, he said it hasnt been their top priority. If you have an issue, he recommended you contact their support team. I have said this before, but I would not have a single customer if I told them I could not fix the software they purchased because I was working on another version.Again, its not an issue of not being able to fix bugs, many companies have a process in place to allow for handling their customers needs. In the adobe case, if something isnt working as you would expect, there is the support channel. drop them an email or give them a call, and they can help solve the issue you are having. They are the ones who are best able to determine if you are doing something wrong, or if its a bug in the code which needs to be fixed. I wouldnt be at all surprised if their were a number of minor patches available through the support channels. I dont know that there are, but if I were them, and I had a few fixes to specific bugs that havent been reported by the community at large, but instead by a few customers, I would probably give the fixes as needed, rather than make a whole new big push. Then again, thats just my thought process. Sadly, I dont have a whole support team working for me, so i need to deal with bugs in my code as they crop up.At 03:18 PM 8/30/2006, Jack Caldwell wrote: Matt or anyone else at Adobe.I agree that the quality of Flex Builder 2 is good . . . . very good . . . . however . . . .I know nothing will probably change since Adobe is the big software company, and I am only a single customer(Flex Builder 2 w/charting
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline
Jack, You're welcome to express your opinions, even if they aren't the same as mine. Opinions are good. Paul - Original Message - From: Jack Caldwell To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:50 PM Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Paul: I have 200+ customers. But as I said before, this isn't going to change anything, so in the future I will just keep my opinions to myself. Thanks for your opinion. Jack From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul AndrewsSent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:40 PMTo: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Jack, I suspect that you don't run a company of quite the same size of Adobe. f you have one or two customers you can just issue a fix as soon as you've done QA. When you have thousands you have major distribution and support overheads that get more costly as you go on. It's not a question of knowing how to plan, it's big number logistics. Your not the only one whose been in software development for 27 yearseither.. Paul - Original Message - From: Jack Caldwell To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:10 PM Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Paul: Well . . . . . I must be doing something right . . . . for 27 years. If you read my post completely I said I did not expect Adobe to be as quick on fixes as I have been. It would only be a nightmare, if they did not plan properly. Maybe I just know how to plan and implement at a faster pace. But thanks just the same. Jack From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul AndrewsSent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 3:55 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.comSubject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Jack, I don't think you appreciate what a nightmare that would be for any development company. The sheer overhead of doing what you suggest would be immense. I don't know of a software company of any kind that operates like that. I think you've had the wrong position for 27 years.. Paul - Original Message - From: Jack Caldwell To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 8:59 PM Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Jeff: I fully understood what Matt was saying. That's just it . . . . it is not a top priority. The issue is that Adobe is fixing the bugs, but not releasing them. We as developers have to try to figure it out then call support, etc. That could take hours or days of my time. It's wasted time and money. I am like you, I don't have a large support staff either. My position, for over 27 years,has always been . . . . find a bug send ALL customers a fix ASAP. Not waiting for a customer to call me. Again, in the first 6-9 months after a major release, I think there should be a different release plan in place. Thanks, Jack From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff TapperSent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 2:32 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.comSubject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Jack-I think you misunderstand what Matt said. He didn't say they aren't working on fixes, he said it hasnt been their top priority. If you have an issue, he recommended you contact their support team. I have said this before, but I would not have a single customer if I told them I could not fix the software they purchased because I was working on another version.Again, its not an issue of not being able to fix bugs, many companies have a process in place to allow for handling their customers needs. In the adobe case, if something isnt working as you would expect, there is the support channel. drop them an email or give them a call, and they can help solve the issue you are having. They are the ones who are best able to determine if you are doing something wrong, or if its a bug in the code which needs to be fixed. I wouldnt be at all surprised if their were a number of minor patches available through the support channels. I dont know that there are, but if I were them, and I had a few fixes to specific bugs that havent been reported by the community at large
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline
.02 Well my experience is with the other adobe teams. BUT I have had devs/engineers call me on a sunday. On their own dime, to see what we could sort out regarding some persistant but hard to nail bugs. All the teams at adobe I have had the pleasure of working with have all busted themselves to make sure things were working. As for flex, we get a huge commitment just in them answering things on this list, not to mention all the adobe blogs with examples etc. I personally think anyone who cries for 24 hour personal tech service should be paying a hefty price for a yearly agreement ;) Impudent1 LeapFrog Productions -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline
Trust me Adobe is very anal when it comes to releasing bug free software. And the risk that 1 bug fix could introduce 2 more bugs is a big concern. When companies, hell whole industries,are betting their multi-million dollar businesses on your product you have to be overly cautious and careful. Personally I'm glad they over test. You wouldn't believe how big of deal quality is to the QA team there, trying to get them bend the rules a little is impossible. We should all buy them beer (Lot's and Lot's of Beer!) For instance it takes over 2 weeks to run all of the regressions on all ofthe supported platforms for Adobe to ship a release (alpha, beta, or final) of ColdFusion. Touch one line of code and the regressions have to start all over. And Flex has a growing regression suite it needs to run, I wouldn't be surprised if it hasn't already surpassed 2 weeks for a full regression test. Especially considering that there are multiple products that are all intertwined. For example, a bug fix in the player has to be tested againstthe FDS server and Actionscript in theSDK to make sure nothing has been broken.Imagine the mess, if millions of people started updatingtheir flash players to the latest version andsites like You Tube or MySpace quit working. And if there is a new "bug fix" every few days, or even once a week,the regressions would never complete,and eventually un-tested buggy software would be released, and then we would stop trusting the hot fixes coughMicrosoft/cough. This is whyyou/they have to stop the fix and release cycle periodically, fixlotsof bugs, test test test, and then release an official point release. Otherwise there would be a mutiny in support and they would all give up and quit and there would be no one there to help us. It's a whole binge and purge cycle really. Anyway, the real reason I replied to this thread to post this link.A must read for anyone who writes software and has to manage bugs. http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,1781895,00.html--nimer - Original Message From: Louie Penaflor [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 6:45:20 PMSubject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline I believe that Adobe is very eccentric when it comes to business models. They are the 700 lb girl. They aren’t anywhere and will be around for awhile, so they can make decisions that might upset people but we will just have to deal with them. I’m not saying it’s always a bad thing. I also believe that they have some “loyalty” to the Mac platform. Usually their suite of products are released first on the Mac platform. What worried me about this merger is if Adobe would make decsions that weren’t viewed as “correct” by some people in the industry and that they could change the focus of flash completely. Who knows. I just hope they won’t destroy such a good tech. I believe one of the problems is that Flash is just a buggy technology to begin with and that is something I’ve come to accept. If I wouldn’t deal with it, then I wouldn’t be developing in it J From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com [mailto:flexcoders@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jack CaldwellSent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:50 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.comSubject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Paul: I have 200+ customers. But as I said before, this isn't going to change anything, so in the future I will just keep my opinions to myself. Thanks for your opinion. Jack From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com [mailto:flexcoders@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Paul AndrewsSent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:40 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.comSubject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Jack, I suspect that you don't run a company of quite the same size of Adobe. f you have one or two customers you can just issue a fix as soon as you've done QA. When you have thousands you have major distribution and support overheads that get more costly as you go on. It's not a question of knowing how to plan, it's big number logistics. Your not the only one whose been in software development for 27 yearseither.. Paul - Original Message - From: Jack Caldwell To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:10 PM Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Paul: Well . . . . . I must be doing something right . . . . for 27 years. If you read my post completely I said I did not expect Adobe to be as quick on fixes as I have been. It would only be a nightmare, if they did not plan properly. Maybe I just know how to plan and implement at a faster pace. But thanks just the same. Jack From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com [mailto:flexcoders@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Paul AndrewsSent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 3:55 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.comSubject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Jack, I don't think you appreciate what a nightmare that would be for any development company.
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline
Anyway, the real reason I replied to this thread to post this link.A must read for anyone who writes software and has to manage bugs. http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,1781895,00.html A great article. But I disagree that its for people who write software and manage bugs, because (almost) everyone who writes software knows these things. If only the outsiders could read it without being scared to bits! Regards,Hank __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Software development tool Software development Software development services Home design software Software development company YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline
Hi, I think folks over interpreted Matt's email. Please cut him (and us) some slack. We will do patch releases. We are staffed to do patch releases. We do need to aggregate up bugs and do them in a thoughtfull fashion because any fix can break something else. We base what we fix and when we do such releases on customer feedback--if we need to we might put out one immediately after a new release or we might go 6 months. It depends on the issues our customers are facing. But we are indeed staffed and have resources to be able to do patches and you will see patches for Flex. I don't have a specific date for you because we haven't finalized everything that will be in it yet. It doesn't make sense to do a lot of tiny patches because the overhead of regression testing a release of the software is enormous so we will do fewer, medium sized patches instead. This is true for the Player team, the Compiler team, the SDK team, the tool team and the server team. Each of these teams might do patches on a different cycle of course depending on need. In general, we are most conservative about changes to the Player because the risk of "injections" is highest here with software that quickly goes out to 100s of millions of people. Jack, you suggest we should have a patch in the first "6-9 months after a release". While we don't have a final schedule in place, that is a reasonable timeframe from my perspective too. Please don't jump to conclusions (and jump on Matt)--we don't need to rethink our strategy here, on the contrary, we seem to be in agreement. -David SVP, Adobe From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack CaldwellSent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 3:18 PMTo: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Matt or anyone else at Adobe. I agree that the quality of Flex Builder 2 is good . . . . very good . . . . however . . . . I know nothing will probably change since Adobe is the big software company, and I am only a single customer(Flex Builder 2 w/charting), but this position disturbs me. It reminds me of the construction industry when a contractor builds or remodels myhouse. I have paid for the work and I find problems but the contractor is off working on another house and doesn't have the time or resources to fix the problems in a timely manner. To be honest,I could care less about a Mac version . . . . AND I know those wanting a Mac version could care less about a Windows version. So please no bashing from the Mac side. It appears that Adobe has not allocated enough resources to the development team where they can have 2 groups. As I recall, it was said on this forum, soon afterFlex 2 was released the development team received new Macs to begin work on a Mac version. Why did Adobe not already have a plan and resources in place. This type of thing is done all the time. While I do not expect that every single bug be issued a "release patch",it would be very nice and customer friendly to have a bug fix release plan in place and implement that plan. Especially in the first 6-9 months of a major release. I haven't encountered a bug that I know of. But when I do, I willprobably have spent many hours or days thinking I did notwrite the code right only to find out later is was a bug. Wasted time . . . . money. I have said this before, but I would not have a single customer if I told them I could not fix the software they purchased because I was working on another version. I really do not understand why large software companies employ this type of bug fix and update plan. I only hope Adobe will rethink their strategy and implementation of releasing bug fixes. My .02 or actually $ 749 for Flex Builder 2 w/charting. Thanks, Jack From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt ChotinSent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:21 AMTo: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeline Are there specific bugs youre looking to be addressed? Based on direct feedback as well as observation from the various public forums weve been pretty pleased with the quality of the release so weve held off on rushing out an updater while we work on things like the Mac release of Flex Builder. Doesnt mean were not fixing bugs, but weve decided to try to address more issues in a longer cycle rather than fewer issues quickly. If theres a specific issue that is blocking your work use the wish form (http://www.adobe.com/go/wish) to submit it and indicate so. There are also plenty of official support options available to help as well (http://www.adobe.com/support/programs/flex/?tab:plans=1) Matt From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com] On Behalf Of Adam ReynoldsSent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 2:44 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.comSubject: [flexcoders] Flex 2 patch timeli
