Re: [Flightgear-devel] Microsoft artwork (!) in the 707 panel
2. To repaint the parts I took from the package There I have one questions: When I go to the aircarft museum and take some cockpit photos. CanI use them for panel painting (like the 737 panel) ?? You will need permission from the museum or aircraft owner to use the photo commercially. At least in Germany. This is not necessary if you are able to take the photo from a place outside of the museum or aircraft. (Of course in this case, this could be very difficult to take photos from a cockpit when you are outside of the aircraft) Best Regards, Oliver C. -- NEU: Telefon-Flatrate fürs dt. Festnetz! GMX Phone_Flat: 9,99 Euro/Mon.* Für DSL-Nutzer. Ohne Providerwechsel! http://www.gmx.net/de/go/telefonie ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Microsoft artwork (!) in the 707 panel
Hello, Oliver Correll schrieb: 2. To repaint the parts I took from the package There I have one questions: When I go to the aircarft museum and take some cockpit photos. Can I use them for panel painting (like the 737 panel) ?? You will need permission from the museum or aircraft owner to use the photo commercially. At least in Germany. I'm not sure whether commercially is the right word for this. IANAL, but the German legal term is AFAIK geschäftsmäßig, which basically means anything one a regular basis, not necessarily requiring an exchange of money between provider and client. This seems to include distribution of such a photo as part of a panel for open download from the internet. Remember: IANAL. Regards, Ralf ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Microsoft artwork (!) in the 707 panel
On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 21:09:53 +0200, Georg wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hans-Georg Wunder schrieb: ... - Do we have a place to store aircrafts with uncompliant aircrafts ??? Hi Hans-Georg, there is an AVSIM category in the file library named FlightGear with 4 sub-categories: - base distribution, - source code, -scenery and terrain and miscellaneous files. You could place anything there as it is your problem and risk and not related to FlightGear if there are copyright problems but I think this is not prudent and useful. And you would be pretty lonely there as only 1 (!) file is there, in the wrong category and with obvious copyright infringements as the 747 repaint is a commercial movie theme. ..seriously, 0 is enough for trouble makers. http://groklaw.net/ Despite the bad place I will upload a tool to AVSIM as the license of the compiler is a non profit and personal one and I don't want any problems for FlightGear. In Germany it is pretty clear that I am allowed to give this *.exe to other people as long as I do not take money with it. But what's about other parts of the world? I don't know. ..you wanna ask please help me find the copyright owners to these files on putting _any_ of these online. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Microsoft artwork (!) in the 707 panel
Andy Ross wrote: Hans-Georg Wunder wrote: In the package there is a GPL-license. If this is enough, then everything is OK regarding the panel. Unfortunately, due to clear evidence of (minor, admittedly) copyright violation, this is not enough. The issue isn't license compatibility, it is copyright ownership. John Carty cannot legally grant a license to artwork he does not own. We need to be 100% sure that the people granting the license (GPL or otherwise) own the copyright. I wrote John a mail and told him, what Iam going to do, but I got no answer. At this point, I think a statement from Mr. Carty is really the only thing that will be acceptable. It's possible he didn't understand the rules, and generated some of the artwork via screenshots of other aircraft in MSFS. That's a showstopper for us. Now there three ways to go to get the panel GPL compliant: 1. To write a mail to Mr. carty an wait for an anwser (I got no anwser to my first mail, so I only have a small hope) 2. To repaint the parts I took from the package There I have one questions: When I go to the aircarft museum and take some cockpit photos. Can I use them for panel painting (like the 737 panel) ?? Is someone out there who has a 707 panel photo me ; ?? (There is no aircraft museum in Germany with a 707, AFAIK) - Do we have a place to store aircrafts with uncompliant aircrafts ??? Kind regards Hans-Georg Obviously Innis's model and FDM configuration are fine. But my strong suggestion is not to commit the panel until we can trace the history of every image in it. Andy ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Microsoft artwork (!) in the 707 panel
Hans-Georg Wunder wrote: Now there three ways to go to get the panel GPL compliant: There still seems to be a misunderstanding. The issue here is not a minor technicality regarging open source license compatibility. It is that this package got caught using artwork to which the author does not own the copyright! This is not GPL incompliance, this is called copyright infringement. It is possible that the little icons were the only Microsoft artwork at issue, but there is no way we can know that unless we know exactly how the artwork in the 707 package was generated. Especially for us, because the mechanism behing the GPL is based on the idea of copyright protection, it is extremely important that we remain clean of perceived problems. When I go to the aircarft museum and take some cockpit photos. Can I use them for panel painting (like the 737 panel) ?? Generally yes. There is a long tradition (much longer than computers or aircraft have been around) of people creating and distributed simulated representations of objects using the real thing as a reference. That doesn't mean that you *can't* be asked to stop, of course, but that it seems unlikely that you will. Note, however, that many museums have a no cameras policy (which has nothing to do with copyright law, although it is intended to protect their exhibits' uniqueness). So you may need to be sneaky when you take the photos. :) - Do we have a place to store aircrafts with uncompliant aircrafts ??? I have no objection to making separate distributions of aircraft with minor license incompatibilities. But under no circumstances should the FlightGear project distribute or link to content with known copyright problems, sorry. Andy ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Microsoft artwork (!) in the 707 panel
Hans-Georg Wunder schrieb: ... - Do we have a place to store aircrafts with uncompliant aircrafts ??? Hi Hans-Georg, there is an AVSIM category in the file library named FlightGear with 4 sub-categories: - base distribution, - source code, -scenery and terrain and miscellaneous files. You could place anything there as it is your problem and risk and not related to FlightGear if there are copyright problems but I think this is not prudent and useful. And you would be pretty lonely there as only 1 (!) file is there, in the wrong category and with obvious copyright infringements as the 747 repaint is a commercial movie theme. Despite the bad place I will upload a tool to AVSIM as the license of the compiler is a non profit and personal one and I don't want any problems for FlightGear. In Germany it is pretty clear that I am allowed to give this *.exe to other people as long as I do not take money with it. But what's about other parts of the world? I don't know. Therefore AVSIM is a good place as long as there are any doubts to protect FlightGear. In your case, I would at least think about not giving your work away as aircraft designers of other flightsims very often copy even panels or sideviews out of other sims via screenshot and make it a basis of their own work. I can give a lot of samples where FLY! II panels and sideviews are taken for aircrafts of other sims (although FLY! isn't sold anymore the stuff is copyrighted!). Some designers don't think about these things or .. Therefore, if you can't get an answer from the author of the original panel, try to get other stuff. This is painful due to the lot of work you spent but on the long run it would be better for you and FlightGear to have a panel which could go into the basic 707 aircraft. Regards Georg EDDW ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Microsoft artwork (!) in the 707 panel
On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 17:06:40 -0400, Jim wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: From: Andy Ross Hans-Georg Wunder wrote: In the package there is a GPL-license. If this is enough, then everything is OK regarding the panel. Unfortunately, due to clear evidence of (minor, admittedly) copyright violation, this is not enough. The issue isn't license compatibility, it is copyright ownership. John Carty cannot legally grant a license to artwork he does not own. We need to be 100% sure that the people granting the license (GPL or otherwise) own the copyright. I wrote John a mail and told him, what Iam going to do, but I got no answer. At this point, I think a statement from Mr. Carty is really the only thing that will be acceptable. It's possible he didn't understand the rules, and generated some of the artwork via screenshots of other aircraft in MSFS. That's a showstopper for us. Obviously Innis's model and FDM configuration are fine. But my strong suggestion is not to commit the panel until we can trace the history of every image in it. Andy's view on this is the same as my own. If OSS developers learned a lesson from SCO it is this. Although it is hard to see now, some day FGFS or a derivative is likely to be a real threat to whatever is left of the future MSFS desktop market and the last thing we want to do is give some bunch of copyright lawyers a toehold. ..aye. http://groklaw.net/ We're not too worried about tSCOG anymore, ;o) but we do peel off layer by layer onion peel style who's done what etc and who's next and why and how etc. ;o) So, John Carty, your statement, please. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Microsoft artwork (!) in the 707 panel
Hans-Georg Wunder wrote: In the package there is a GPL-license. If this is enough, then everything is OK regarding the panel. Unfortunately, due to clear evidence of (minor, admittedly) copyright violation, this is not enough. The issue isn't license compatibility, it is copyright ownership. John Carty cannot legally grant a license to artwork he does not own. We need to be 100% sure that the people granting the license (GPL or otherwise) own the copyright. I wrote John a mail and told him, what Iam going to do, but I got no answer. At this point, I think a statement from Mr. Carty is really the only thing that will be acceptable. It's possible he didn't understand the rules, and generated some of the artwork via screenshots of other aircraft in MSFS. That's a showstopper for us. Obviously Innis's model and FDM configuration are fine. But my strong suggestion is not to commit the panel until we can trace the history of every image in it. Andy ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Microsoft artwork (!) in the 707 panel
From: Andy Ross Hans-Georg Wunder wrote: In the package there is a GPL-license. If this is enough, then everything is OK regarding the panel. Unfortunately, due to clear evidence of (minor, admittedly) copyright violation, this is not enough. The issue isn't license compatibility, it is copyright ownership. John Carty cannot legally grant a license to artwork he does not own. We need to be 100% sure that the people granting the license (GPL or otherwise) own the copyright. I wrote John a mail and told him, what Iam going to do, but I got no answer. At this point, I think a statement from Mr. Carty is really the only thing that will be acceptable. It's possible he didn't understand the rules, and generated some of the artwork via screenshots of other aircraft in MSFS. That's a showstopper for us. Obviously Innis's model and FDM configuration are fine. But my strong suggestion is not to commit the panel until we can trace the history of every image in it. Andy's view on this is the same as my own. If OSS developers learned a lesson from SCO it is this. Although it is hard to see now, some day FGFS or a derivative is likely to be a real threat to whatever is left of the future MSFS desktop market and the last thing we want to do is give some bunch of copyright lawyers a toehold. Best, Jim ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
