Re: [Flightgear-devel] another vivid example for the guru syndrome :-] (was: Buildiing/running the ATC network test)
[WAY OFFTOPIC !] Erik Hofman wrote: Boris Koenig wrote: leave it alone, then it's NOT your business, but rather the folks from opentnl.org should take care of such issues ... With such an attitude you might be better off subscribing to fgfs-users and not fgfs-devel. Thanks for that hint Erik - as always, I appreciate your opinion, indeed, you might remember: I'm subscribed to both lists ;-) And I bet I wouldn't have half that much fun if I were *only* subscribed to the user-list :-) Back to the TNL topic: there have been quite some lengthy (private) discussions about whether to really use TNL or not - because OF their current lack of cross-platform support. You couldn't know that - you chose to reply anyway, and the two of us know why you did so ;-) So far we didn't get our hands on docs about how to create these platform modules to make the TNL support other platforms, too - so the only thing that I said - like I did already do privately - was that we shouldn't concentrate too much on using the TNL if it finally turns out to be unfeasible to make use of the TNL at all - having *portability* as one of the major goals. Essentially, because it might turn out to be a waste of time in the end... Likewise, it could be considered a waste of time to respond to things where you aren't fully involved Erik, regardless of the valuable opinions that you want to share :-) So in this context, I'd like to remind you of a private mail exchange that we had a couple of weeks ago: NOW you *are* encouraged to interpret exactly THAT meaning into the above paragraph ;-) Also, please keep in mind that your advice doesn't logically connect very well to my actual recommendation, simply because it wasn't about FlightGear development, but rather about openTNL development. Two different projects, if I am not terribly mistaken ? Of course, I understand what you're basically trying to suggest, but don't let this become a flame war about software development philosophies in general - I was only saying that there's no good reason to REALLY concentrate on the TNL as long as some things haven't been ruled out. In that regard, please take into account that every minute spent on other (i.e. NON-FlightGear-) projects, is one potential minute less for the (FlightGear-) project itself :-) And I am very sure that you'll remember times when you found yourself pondering about similar thoughts Erik ? So, don't try to convince me that my thoughts are non-conforming with the attitude of developers in general - that'd be ridiculous, I think. Instead of having to watch *some* people here continually starting attempts to live out their guru syndrome and thereby repeatedly proofing HOW 'welcome' new potential contributors are to this project, it would probably be much more beneficial for the project itself if some of _us_ could agree to react in a much more laid-back fashion to things that they don't like to read... possibly even reacting in a way that doesn't suggest that we just passed puberty ? Some people here seem even to be literally WAITING for people to say/post something that they can *mis-interpret* ... It's somewhat sad, although this is pretty interesting from a psychological point of view ;-) Alternatively, we could agree to use private mail, instead of putting harm to the project itself by provoking immature debates publicly on the project's mailing list - making the project or rather the community of developers less attractive for other people. Maybe, we need to set up a flightgear-fights mailing list !? ;-) Not everybody may enjoy these debates as much as I do :-) Boris P.S.: Believe me folks, I know exactly what it feelks like - I've gone through all this, too - not necessarily on (public) mailing list, though. ;-) ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] another vivid example for the guru syndrome :-]
Boris Koenig wrote: Maybe, we need to set up a flightgear-fights mailing list !? ;-) You are missing the point. The GPL (and the Free Software Foundation) is all about the spirit to go and fix things that are broken to your opinion and not about saying it's their problem, let them fix it. After all it was only a comment from which you could have learned something (about Free Software for instance). Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] another vivid example for the guru syndrome :-]
Erik Hofman wrote: You are missing the point. The GPL (and the Free Software Foundation) is all about the spirit to go and fix things that are broken to your opinion and not about saying it's their problem, let them fix it. After all it was only a comment from which you could have learned something (about Free Software for instance). I think the spirit of free software is to create the best application we can, help each other out as much as possible, collectively learn a few thing, benefit from each other's experience, etc. etc. However, we are all volunteers working with (sometimes very) limited spare time. We each have our own priorities and we don't have to answer to a boss who set's our priorities and we aren't selling the product so we don't have to answer to customers demanding specific features. The point Eric is trying to make is that if a end user or Jr. Developer would like help with a feature that doesn't fit within other developer's priorities or available time, then they are often on their own. They have access to all the same tools and code and resources as the core development team has. If someone wants to fund me full time to do FlightGear development and project management, I'm certain I could be orders of magnitude more responsive. Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt HumanFIRST Program http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ FlightGear Project http://www.flightgear.org Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] another vivid example for the guru syndrome :-]
Curtis L. Olson wrote: If someone wants to fund me full time to do FlightGear development and project management, I'm certain I could be orders of magnitude more responsive. add my name to the list ;-) okay, I'll be updating the tar files for OpenATC field test to enable the security features and data encryption and I'm trying to clean up those make files. If you are thinking of joining in, you might want to download the tar files and have a go at the build. Boris is also working on a few changes and cleaning up the make. The net is full of nasty (expletive deleted) looking for opportunities to hack into you system for whatever reason. Since we're not using any sort of versioning or CVS control for this quick and dirty test, you might consider the next point to check you have the correct software. If you do plan to participate, please look in the TNL library at the netConnection.cpp module at line #778 for two logprintf statements and in the controller and pilot programs around line #455, you should see the following: gMasterServerConnection-connect(theInterface, masterAddress, true, true); the last two boolean arguments turn on the security stuff and at line #307 or so in the RPC m2cArrange ConnectAccepted() conn-connectArranged(getInterface(), fullPossibleAddresses, nonce, serverNonce, theSharedData,true, true, true); The OpenTNL library has a some problems that need work to improve it's portability, but as far as the design. capabilites, and implementation it's about as good as it gets in the open-source world. Regards John W. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
