Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear/Plib periodic stutter notes
* Csaba Halász -- Tuesday 23 October 2007: In FGNasalListener::call the arguments are set up for the call. [...] These end up in naNewGhost, and finally [...] Umm, but the steady increase of refcounters also happens with simple Nasal bindings, where listeners aren't anywhere close. There's only NasalSys::handleCommand() and NasalSys::call() involved, but no naSave/naRelease/etc. (And in listeners the naSave is there to protect the callback function *code* from garbage collection, and this is necessary and can't be given up, as far as I understand. Or the listener function would just be removed, in which case it can, indeed, not cause any harm. But won't work, either. But again: this doesn't seem to be a listener problem, but a more generic one.) m. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear/Plib periodic stutter notes
On Sunday 21 October 2021:52, Melchior FRANZ wrote: Yes, but I think that the randomly appearing subsystems are only victims of other processes -- maybe the stuttering source (which would then have to be in another thread), but probably just other processes on the system, that just pull the CPU down. When the GUI only displays the frame rate in the lower right corner, then I don't see how this subsystem should vary its execution time. And he GUI is regularly in the Timing Alert list. Only without any pattern as far as I can see. The alerts just look like noise to me. m. I've been looking at this with the new timing code yesterday[1]. I still see the interval pausing, and it still seems to grow over time (although I didn't find the time yet to do a long enough flight to be certain). It does seem that GUI is one of those systems that shows increasing peaks in execution time, just like replay, and a few others that I don't recall by name right now. I fully agree that this is probably due to some other process, but I don't believe that it is random. Looking at the summary statistics, some subsystems continue to run very consistently, whereas other systems show this weird behavior. For that reason, we can exclude the possibility that it is caused by other processes on the system, because the source of the delay seems to be affecting very specific processes inside FlightGear. There is a pattern, as shown in these graphs, which I posted earlier: http://durktalsma.xs4all.nl/FlightGear/joystick-timing.png http://durktalsma.xs4all.nl/FlightGear/alloc-replaydata.png Execution time of these systems show gradually increasing peaks over time, interspersed by normal execution time. I suspect that this is a periodic halt as memory reallocation is taking place in another thread, but don't have firm evidence for that yet. The nasal / cmdarg () memory allocation problem could be the cause, but until we know for certain it might be worthwhile to study a few more cases. Such a memory reallocation might explain why a listenerless version[2] of the Seneca doesn't show the interval pause problem, whereas the version with listeners does[3]. Cheers, Durk [1] I hope to commit that sometime later this week / next weekend. [2] Downloadable from http://durktalsma.xs4all.n/SenecaNL.tar.gz (NL stands for No Listener). This is only a partionally functioning aircraft. I commented out all listeners in the Nasal code to see how that would affect performance. The aircraft is still flyable, but you need to switch on the magentos using the mouse, in order to get the engines started. [3] No offense to listeners intended. While researching the cause of the stutters, I've come across some very cool uses of them. Just trying to help to smooth out their performance. :-) - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear/Plib periodic stutter notes
* Csaba Halász -- Tuesday 23 October 2007: Attached patches to sg and fg seem to fix it if tested with Melchior's gctest.nas. BTW: In this script I used /input/joysticks/js/axis[3]/binding as an example for a binding that calls a Nasal function using cmdarg(). But if your axis[3] doesn't do that, then you may have misinterpreted the result of your patch. Not that I've tried it yet ... If I set /input/joysticks/js/axis[3]/binding/script to just 'print(x)', then the refcounter of the binding is not increased. When I set it to 'cmdarg()', then it is. (Normally, it's 'controls.throttleAxis()', which calls cmdarg(), too.) And again: that's only a binding, not a listener, so better don't focus too much on listeners. They trigger the problem as well, but the bug must IMHO be upstream. m. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] backtrace dump
Im not convinced that this is an issue of the ATI problem - the rendering engine is offcourse running, but i am more convinced with some leak in the loading procedure. I have tried loading several different aircrafts and the program each time breaks when it tries to load the file earlier mentioned - no matter if i load the c172 directly as the primary aircraft or it loads it as a scenery object. 2007/10/22, Csaba Halász [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 10/22/07, Tobias Nielsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: please please please, can someone aid me with some ideas - my fav. sim is missing me and im missing it :-) Looks like a variation on the usual ati driver problem. You might want to try this: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_name=4675C5C5.2010104%40av8n.com Good luck. -- Csaba - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Yours kindly Tobias Nielsen - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] backtrace dump
On Tuesday 23 October 2007 03:40, Tobias Nielsen wrote: Im not convinced that this is an issue of the ATI problem - the rendering engine is offcourse running, but i am more convinced with some leak in the loading procedure. Run it with the debug level set to bulk and if the crash is the same pastebin a link of your log files here. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Links FYI
FYI Only ! http://stage6.divx.com/user/koreilly/video/1519746/Sky-Control-(Air-Traffic-Control-Documentary) Aerotro PS, I uploaded a Hi Quality remix of Parts 1A 1B 2 here of my first movie ep's http://stage6.divx.com/user/Ortorea/video/1770438/Oleg's-Adventures-Parts-1A-1B-And-2-Compiled-Hi-Quality Online FlightGear Simulator Tracker Page. http://mpserver04.flightgear.org http://www.flightgear.org- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Noobie - Interested in multi-dispay
Folks, I am interested in simulating an electro-optics ball (like you have hanging off of a news helicopter). I'll need two displays, one to fly the aircraft and the other to operate the ball. The second display will not affect the flight of the aircraft, but I will need to be able to point the ball in different directions and do a bunch of interactive stuff with it. I understand that FlightGear supports multiple displays (as per the manual). Where should I start? Which chunks of code are important to me? Any suggestions? I've been browsing the CVS and am in the process of setting up my computer for working with the source. It's an XP box, and I plan to use Eclipse 3.2 as my dev environment. I have another box for the second display too. Mike Y - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Macintosh directory separator
Actually it was ':'. OS X is UNIX, so use '/'. You'll only need ':' if you're trying to support OS 9 or earlier. On 10/22/07, Jon S. Berndt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At one time, the ; character was used to separate directory names. Is this still the case? Does support need to be maintained for that? Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Hans Fugal Fugal Computing - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] backtrace dump
Okay, here is one gigantic file dump... Be awere that i have added a few extra lines of debug since i wanted to try to locate the problem. But i assume that you will be able to see your way out of it.. http://www.mip.sdu.dk/~tobibobi/dump.tar.gz 2007/10/23, Robert Black [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Tuesday 23 October 2007 03:40, Tobias Nielsen wrote: Im not convinced that this is an issue of the ATI problem - the rendering engine is offcourse running, but i am more convinced with some leak in the loading procedure. Run it with the debug level set to bulk and if the crash is the same pastebin a link of your log files here. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Yours kindly Tobias Nielsen - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] backtrace dump
On 10/23/07, Tobias Nielsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Im not convinced that this is an issue of the ATI problem Maybe, but any backtrace involving DrawArrayLengths rings the alarm bell for me :) -- Csaba - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear/Plib periodic stutter notes
Hi Casaba, On Tuesday 23 October 2007 04:53, Csaba Halász wrote: I am not familiar with the nasal system, so this might be completely wrong. Also, I am not sure this has anything to do with the stuttering. But it seems to be a memory leak, though. I just applied the two patches to my local source tree, and I am *very happy* to announce that the interval pauses are completely gone! I just finished one, about one hour long, test flight using the Seneca on a trajectory that would normally induce unbearable pausing after about 20 to 30 minutes. Not only did I not see any interval pauses, I also didn't see a single subsystem warning anymore (except for a few known cases). Like, Melchior, I believe that Andy should have a final look at your patch, but it seems like it is very close to fixing a very long standing bug. The important thing is that we've touched the very heart of the problem. This has been one of the tougher bugs to track down, but looking back, it's very rewarding to see it fixed. I'd really like to thank everybody who has contributed to the process. Cheers, Durk - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Positioning Point of View and controlling direction I look
More questions! So how do I change the direction in which I am viewing and the position that I am viewing from? I did not see them in the list of properties, which seemed like a good guess on where they'd be. The camera balls on aircraft typically are hanging below the fuselage. *** Mike Yukish, Ph.D. Head, Manufacturing Product Process Design Department Applied Research Lab/Penn State University [EMAIL PROTECTED] Office: (814) 863-7143 Cell: (814) 777-4614 - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear/Plib periodic stutter notes
* Durk Talsma -- Tuesday 23 October 2007: The important thing is that we've touched the very heart of the problem. No, the important thing is that the bug was not in the listener code, as I said from the beginning. ;-) The Seneca is special in that it attaches listeners to YASim internal properties, which are updated multiple times per frame, unlike most other listeners, which run *at most* once per frame, but actually very rarely. I hope that the stuttering is fixed for all. And in any case should the Seneca fix its listener use. For example, by using on-change-only listeners, or using a simple loop which checks the interesting values once per frame. I'm available for consulting if necessary. :-) m. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear/Plib periodic stutter notes
Csaba Halász schrieb: ... I am not familiar with the nasal system, so this might be completely wrong. Also, I am not sure this has anything to do with the stuttering. But it seems to be a memory leak, though. Hi Csaba, your patches did the trick, wonderful! Just as a feedback: after applying the diffs and compiling I made a long flight with the Seneca from EDDV (Hannover) to EDDW (Bremen) with two touch and go (to stress the system with many objects), along the river Weser and the coast to Cuxhaven, then landing at ETMN (Nordholz). There are really a lot (!) of objects placed at that route, mostly STATIC but also many SHARED ones due to the ongoing development. I started in EDDV with around 65 frames (due to a lot of objects from the nearly finished EDDV airport scenario), had a generally very smooth flight and landed after all that flighttime with 70 frames at Nordholz (only the scenery loading system caused some short framerate depressions, but that is another story). This is the practical proof for me that stuttering problem is solved!!! :-) Congratulations and thanks to you Csaba for finally solving it BUT ALSO to all the other developers who spent a lot of their time hunting after it. This is a nice day as not only a usable FlightGear for longer flights is reborn but it opens the door for the 0.9.11 release, many user are waiting for it as we have read over and over again the last months in the FG Forums. Georg EDDW - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear/Plib periodic stutter notes
Vivian Meazza schrieb: Not here, I'm afraid. Very good frame rates using the Buccaneer (70+) but there are still noticeable pauses over land. None over the ocean tiles. The pauses, or hesitations do not seem to be associated with any Subsystem Timing Alert, of which there are almost none. Regards, Vivian Hi Vivian, mmmh, as it really works for me as I already posted I want to add that my test still was made with Sync to VBlank on AND all AI stuff swiched off in the preferences.xml. AI stuff might now work without resulting in stuttering, I have to test it, but I doubt that I can omit the Sync switch, this seems to be another special problem. Did you think of that? Regards Georg - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear/Plib periodic stutter notes
Hi, Couldn't test it, waiting that someones will do a precompiled binary for windows. But it sounds good, very good though at least there are still some perfomance issues. I think of AI and the loading of the scenery tiles. What Vivian is writing sounds for me like the stutters of loading of objects. If I use Random Objects FGFS is hardly to use, even I decrease the count of objects. It would be good if Vivian could send his choosen settings for comparing. HHS --- Georg Vollnhals [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Vivian Meazza schrieb: Not here, I'm afraid. Very good frame rates using the Buccaneer (70+) but there are still noticeable pauses over land. None over the ocean tiles. The pauses, or hesitations do not seem to be associated with any Subsystem Timing Alert, of which there are almost none. Regards, Vivian Hi Vivian, mmmh, as it really works for me as I already posted I want to add that my test still was made with Sync to VBlank on AND all AI stuff swiched off in the preferences.xml. AI stuff might now work without resulting in stuttering, I have to test it, but I doubt that I can omit the Sync switch, this seems to be another special problem. Did you think of that? Regards Georg - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel Heute schon einen Blick in die Zukunft von E-Mails wagen? www.yahoo.de/mail - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Positioning Point of View and controlling direction I look
On Tuesday 23 October 2007 14:47, Mike Yukish wrote: So how do I change the direction in which I am viewing and the position that I am viewing from? I did not see them in the list of properties, which seemed like a good guess on where they'd be. The camera balls on aircraft typically are hanging below the fuselage. Try: /sim/view/x-offset-m /sim/view/y-offset-m /sim/view/z-offset-m Ampere - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
