Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI Carrier with Aircraft, and the last JSBSim version

2008-08-26 Thread gerard robin
On lun 25 août 2008, Jon S. Berndt wrote:
  Hello,
 
 ...
 
  In order to get these data into the JSB FDM, the crude  solution could
  be, to
  include the yasim calculation part into JSBSim.
 
  I feel that won't be the more elegant solution, and i am not sure that
  Jon
  would agree on it.  :)
 
  Though, i am not aware, about the FG source organisation, i dare that
  question:
 
  Won't it be possible to calculate and to give on request ( when we are
  close
  to a  Carrier ) these data.
  I mean, the cats and wires positions ?
 
  Cheers
  --
  Gérard
  http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/

 As posted by Dave in the JSBSim mailing list, I firmly agree: determining
 carrier location and orientation should not be an FDM specific function.
 This needs to be more configurable from the FlightGear side, so any FDM can
 take that information and do with it what it needs to do cat/hook ops.

 Jon




YES, the problem won't be  technical, but mainly a policy problem.

Since that feature is included into YASim , I fear  the answer (again, i got 
it..),  for model which want carrier features, YASim  answer the 
request  :).

I hope that the prize to do it,  will not be too high.

Cheers



-- 
Gérard
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/

J'ai décidé d'être heureux parce que c'est bon pour la santé. 
Voltaire 


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI Carrier with Aircraft, and the last JSBSim version

2008-08-26 Thread gerard robin
On mar 26 août 2008, gerard robin wrote:
 On lun 25 août 2008, Jon S. Berndt wrote:
   Hello,
  
  ...
  
   In order to get these data into the JSB FDM, the crude  solution could
   be, to
   include the yasim calculation part into JSBSim.
  
   I feel that won't be the more elegant solution, and i am not sure that
   Jon
   would agree on it.  :)
  
   Though, i am not aware, about the FG source organisation, i dare that
   question:
  
   Won't it be possible to calculate and to give on request ( when we are
   close
   to a  Carrier ) these data.
   I mean, the cats and wires positions ?
  
   Cheers
   --
   Gérard
   http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/
 
  As posted by Dave in the JSBSim mailing list, I firmly agree: determining
  carrier location and orientation should not be an FDM specific function.
  This needs to be more configurable from the FlightGear side, so any FDM
  can take that information and do with it what it needs to do cat/hook
  ops.
 
  Jon

 YES, the problem won't be  technical, but mainly a policy problem.

 Since that feature is included into YASim , I fear  the answer (again, i
 got it..),  for model which want carrier features, YASim  answer the
 request  :).

 I hope that the prize to do it,  will not be too high.

 Cheers

Sorry, I answer  to myself, :)
Though, more the prize is high, more the chances to obtain it, are large

More seriously.
Won't it be possible to get with a generic Nasal script?

with the closest Carrier:
The Catapults position  with  heading.
The wire positions Left/right position.

Like we have a generic aar.nas (though it is not usable for me, too generic )  
we could have, a carrier.nas.

I am not a Nasal expert, so can't do it.
However,  there is so many Nasal  expert here   ... :)

Regards

-- 
Gérard
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/

J'ai décidé d'être heureux parce que c'est bon pour la santé. 
Voltaire 


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI Carrier with Aircraft, and the last JSBSim version

2008-08-26 Thread Csaba Halász
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 11:23 AM, gerard robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On mar 26 août 2008, gerard robin wrote:
 On lun 25 août 2008, Jon S. Berndt wrote:
  As posted by Dave in the JSBSim mailing list, I firmly agree: determining
  carrier location and orientation should not be an FDM specific function.
  This needs to be more configurable from the FlightGear side, so any FDM
  can take that information and do with it what it needs to do cat/hook
  ops.

I might be misunderstanding something here, but currently the generic
groundcache code returns catapults and wires:

// Return the nearest catapult to the given point
// pt in wgs84 coordinates.
double get_cat(double t, const SGVec3d pt,
   SGVec3d end[2], SGVec3d vel[2]);

// Return 1 if the hook intersects with a wire.
// That test is done by checking if the quad spanned by the points pt*
// intersects with the line representing the wire.
// If the wire is caught, the cache will trace this wires endpoints until
// the FDM calls release_wire().
bool caught_wire(double t, const SGVec3d pt[4]);

// Return the location and speed of the wire endpoints.
bool get_wire_ends(double t, SGVec3d end[2], SGVec3d vel[2]);

// Tell the cache code that it does no longer need to care for
// the wire end position.
void release_wire(void);

The FDM only has to use this information. I have done that for the
wires, but I don't understand the catapult model so couldn't do the
cats.

-- 
Csaba/Jester

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] UNC, Argentina:JSBsim Compilation

2008-08-26 Thread Csaba Halász
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 6:08 AM, Gonzalo Rubio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The objetive of the project is to
 fly both the real plane and the simulator at the same time and together with
 and adquisition data system compare both reality and virtual performance.

I believe Curt does similar things.

 The reason i`m writing is because i dont have experience in C++
 code compilation, i`ve downloaded the source code, but still have problems
 to achieve a correct compilation.

 Could anyone please explain me how you are doing to do this and guide me
 trough the process?

You are welcome to join us in the #flightgear IRC channel for
real-time help with compilation.

-- 
Csaba/Jester

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[Flightgear-devel] Air Refueling was AI Carrier with Aircraft, and the last JSBSim version

2008-08-26 Thread gerard robin
On mar 26 août 2008, Melchior FRANZ wrote:
 I intend to merge Generic/aar.nas with Nasal/fuel.nas (which are almost
 the same already), and to offer a simple interface for special needs.
 The detection of a tanker (not necessarily a flying one) is a generic
 job, and so is refueling. The part that may differ is what happens with
 fuel that entered the aircraft. And for that we could just write the
 fuel amount to a property. An aircraft could then attach a listener to
 that which takes the fuel and does whatever it likes, and finally resets
 the property to zero.

 m.


Hello Melchior,

The specific air refueling and or fuel.nas makes problems if the Aircraft has 
some specific tank management, for instance Crusader has a specific transfer 
tank  which feed the others, Blackbird has an other process in order to 
manage the balance  and so on.

In addition to it, we may want to start or not the refuel according to some 
specific animation , or electrical conditions or etc

As, i told before, depending on the FDM we can, more or less, include part of 
these specific features into the FDM itself, JSBSim is able to take it. 
It is  able to work from the property/systems/refuel/contact/property.
Unfortunately since FG (some time ago  1 year may be 2 ) has got some 
modifications  regarding the original aar. we need to activate that 
property/systems/refuel/contact/property. from a Nasal script.


If we don't mind about these customized process, the aar.nas is a very good 
tool which makes the life, to models developers, very nice, 
having farniente  :)

Cheers

NB: 
Regarding the new type probe/boom which is defined into 
into  the model.xml with nasal, won't it be possible to define it, into the 
demo.xml file instead of it ?

I know that the shape of the probe versus boom are not the same , 
however it will be easier to define a tanker KC135 with boom or probe 
according to the needs,
An other refueling_demo.xml file with KC135 with probe
 

-- 
Gérard
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/

J'ai décidé d'être heureux parce que c'est bon pour la santé. 
Voltaire 


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] GIT

2008-08-26 Thread Melchior FRANZ
* Curtis Olson -- 8/21/2008 5:46 PM:
 I also really like how svn handles group and  user authentication ...
 it does it outside of the unix account system which makes the system
 much easier to manage.

Unix permissions are well understood and not hard to handle. They are
the most straightforward way to handle user rights. Not surprising,
given that that's what they were invented for. But there are two
add-ons for git to manage user permissions via a single system account.
(I sent you a private mail about them a few weeks ago.) 



 From the standpoint of taking small steps, I think it makes sense to
 migrate towards svn, and then we can still keep the git discussion open
 as a separate issue.

In theory, yes. In practice I doubt it. Once we switched to SVN you will
consider it good enough and won't seriously look at GIT again. Even
our broken CVS setup was considered good enough for years, until today,
although the creator of a directory now owns it, and you have to
manually fix the permissions to let anyone else write to it. You didn't
have time to fix that. For years.

I don't like SVN much. Sure, change sets and moving files are something
that we'd really need. But I find the .svn dirs messy and not trustworthy.
Once I got a network interruption during updating, and I could not resume.
(No, svn cleanup didn't help.) I had to check out everything again.

But then again, I still don't really know how well GIT would work for
us. It's perfect for text files -- for code. But it would make me a bit
nervous if an aircraft developer commits several pointless updates of 
5MB sound files. GIT can't compress that. We'd collect the whole pile
on our disks. How much would disk space requirements grow each year?

m.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Air Refueling was AI Carrier with Aircraft, and the last JSBSim version

2008-08-26 Thread gerard robin
On mar 26 août 2008, Melchior FRANZ wrote:
 * gerard robin -- 8/26/2008 2:32 PM:
  The specific air refueling and or fuel.nas makes problems if the Aircraft
  has some specific tank management, for instance Crusader has a specific
  transfer tank  which feed the others, Blackbird has an other
  process in order to manage the balance  and so on.

 With the generic interface an aircraft could just refuse to take any fuel,
 based on electrical system, or whatever. The idea again is something like
 this in fuel.nas (with merged in aar.nas):

   fuel_interface.setDoubleValue(offered_amount);
   var accepted_amount = fuel_interface.getValue();
   if (!accepted_amount)
   return;
   if (accepted_amount  0)
   fill_tanks(accepted_amount);
   subtract_from_tanker(abs(accepted_amount));

 Normally, no listener is attached to node fuel_interface, so the value
 will be the same after reading in again, and all that was offered in this
 cycle will be filled into all active tanks, just as it's the case now. But
 an aircraft could attach a listener to that node:

   setlistener(fuel_interface, func(n) {
   if (don_t_feel_like_tanking) {
   n.setDoubleValue(0);# no thanks; offer rejected
   } else {
   var amount = n.getValue();
   do_fancy_stuff_with(amount);
   n.setDoubleValue(-amount);  # we took *and* distributed it
   }
   });

 ... or something.



Today i am not the best to evaluate your proposal, many others could say what 
they want.
May be coming here, i will complicate things which are, i guess, requested 
simple. 
Generic is generic   :)


  As, i told before, depending on the FDM we can, more or less, include
  part of these specific features into the FDM itself, JSBSim is able to
  take it.

 Yeah, I bet one could code Tetris within a JSBSim config file. Whether it
 makes sense is a different matter.  ;-)

hmmm   Tetris,  not sure. :)  

  Regarding the new type probe/boom which is defined into into the
  model.xml with nasal, won't it be possible to define it, into the
  demo.xml file instead of it ?

 The refueling type must be known over MP/AI. It must also work for
 aircraft piloted by a human. The demo XML file is the wrong place for
 that. And then the refueling capacities are properties of the tanker,
 not of a particular scenario. I agree, however, that using one model
 for either refueling type (and select-animating the boom/probe model
 based on that) would be a good idea.

 m.

Oh right i forgot MP.

The other alternative could be to create an other 
data/Models/Geometry/KC135/KC135_probe.xml file with the 
nasal .setValue(probe), 
We need, too, a other additional demo.xml file.

We save the  .ac file  which remain the same:)





-- 
Gérard
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/

J'ai décidé d'être heureux parce que c'est bon pour la santé. 
Voltaire 


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] UNC, Argentina:JSBsim Compilation

2008-08-26 Thread Curtis Olson
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 7:02 AM, Csaba Halász wrote:

 On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 6:08 AM, Gonzalo Rubio wrote:
 
  The objetive of the project is to
  fly both the real plane and the simulator at the same time and together
 with
  and adquisition data system compare both reality and virtual performance.

 I believe Curt does similar things.


I've done something similar, but only with a pretty crude level of detail.
Still, I'm fairly proud of the results.

The first UAV platform I worked with was a Sig Rascal 110 (110 wing span.)
With the help of aeromatic and one of the JSBSim developers (David?) we
developed an initial approximate JSBsim model for the Rascal, and then based
on my real life flight experience, I refined some of the model
characteristics to get more realistic adverse yaw, roll rates, more
realistic pitch moment relative to throttle change, etc.

I then used this simulator model to develop a set of autopilot
configurations (stages, gains, throw limits, etc.).

At the same time, I was developing a flight computer that used the
flightgear autopilot code (and property system, and xml parser.)  By the
time the flight computer was ready for real flight tests, I had moved on to
an electric powered senior telemaster (8' wing span) for my development
platform.  The two airframes were similar enough, that the gains and setup
developed with the Rascal simulator model worked out of the box on the real
telemaster.  I had stable wing leveling and stable pitch hold on my very
first real world attempt with the Senior Telemaster.  I was very proud of
that result.  The dynamics of the rascal and telemaster are different
enough, that I had to do a bunch of subsequent tuning to optimize my
controller, but the fact that it was convergent on the first try was really
cool.  (Worst case scenario is that the controller diverges and you begin
shedding airframe parts in flight.) :-)

For the future, I want to experiment with incorporating the nasal script
engine into my flight computer.  With that in place, I want to be able to
write scripts to auto fly various flight test scenarios.  The goal here
would be to develop a set of very accurate and repeatable flight test
profiles that are flown by the flight computer (as directed by the script
engine at a high level).  I think this would be a very useful and very
powerful for characterizing the dynamics of a UAV.  There's a chicken/egg
issue here, but if you develop and refine the simulation model in parallel
to developing and refining your autopilot configuration, I think you could
boot strap yourself pretty quickly.  And if we start building up a set of
proven autopilot configurations for a variety of platforms, there will be an
increasing likelihood that just about anyone can find a working start
configuration, and then be able to refine it from there.

Regards,

Curt.
-- 
Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Air Refueling was AI Carrier with Aircraft, and the last JSBSim version

2008-08-26 Thread Arnt Karlsen
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 16:03:32 +0200, gerard wrote in message 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:

  Yeah, I bet one could code Tetris within a JSBSim config file.
  Whether it makes sense is a different matter.  ;-)  
 
 hmmm   Tetris,  not sure. :)  

..err, if it can be done, or, if it makes sense? ;o)


-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o)
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Air Refueling was AI Carrier with Aircraft, and the last JSBSim version

2008-08-26 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 Yeah, I bet one could code Tetris within a JSBSim config file. Whether
 it makes sense is a different matter.  ;-)
 
 m.


Heh. :-)

Actually, the point I am interested in is that JSBSim has the capability to
apply externally generated forces and moments to the aircraft. I suspect
YASim has a similar capability. This is not JSBSim unique - it's simply a
good practice. No FDM should have to handle all unique capabilities such as
hook/catapult/tow rope, etc.  It makes much more sense to handle simple
forces and moments and let the calling application sort out the reasoning.
Does that make sense?

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI Carrier with Aircraft, and the last JSBSim version

2008-08-26 Thread gerard robin
On mar 26 août 2008, Melchior FRANZ wrote:
 * gerard robin -- 8/26/2008 11:23 AM:
  Won't it be possible to get with a generic Nasal script?
 
  with the closest Carrier:
  The Catapults position  with  heading.
  The wire positions Left/right position.

 Could be problematic. The involved subsystems are handled at different
 places in the main loop, which can easily cause synchronization problems.
 (aircraft - FDM update, carrier position - AI update, Nasal loops -
 event handler, visuals - view manager update). As Czaba wrote, letting
 the FDM do that (in connection with the fgfs interface code) is more
 promising.


SNIP
 m.



Yes and No,

You are right with the wires, if their is any time delay i won't work 
correctly., and the AC will stop out of the carrier area.

With Catapult it is less a  problem, with answering time delay, i mean it 
should work.
Catapults features need only to know the starting position with a more or 
less value precision: a carrier with 20 km speed does 5.6 meter per second  
= 0.50 1/10 sec = 0.05 1/100 sec

The heading won't be  a difficulty,  the  heading of the carrier  is not 
quickly moving.




-- 
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http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/

J'ai décidé d'être heureux parce que c'est bon pour la santé. 
Voltaire 


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] segfault at LFPG

2008-08-26 Thread Durk Talsma
On Sunday 24 August 2008 04:38:36 Csaba Halász wrote:
 At least 3 of us get immediate segfault most of the time if starting
 at LFPG. I got various backtraces, mostly from OSG.
 Sometimes there is a warning similar to this:
 Warning: deleting still referenced object 0xb2de7f08 of type
 'PN3osg10ReferencedE'
 the final reference count was 0, memory corruption possible.

 Also, a ton of Use of global in material animation is no longer
 supported messages, don't know if that has anything to do with it.

 Anybody else seeing this? Any ideas?

FWIW, I;m seeing an occasional segfault. Today, I managed to trap it using 
gdb. below is the complete stack trace. IIRC, 2D texture loading has been 
giving occasional problems. This particular error occurred in my new traffic 
manager version of Flightgear. It doesn't seem to make much of a difference, I 
guess.

Cheers,
Durk



#0  0x7f3d24ca20e1 in osg::StateSet::compare () from 
/usr/local/lib64/libosg.so.43
#1  0x7f3d253467e0 in osgDB::SharedStateManager::find () from 
/usr/local/lib64/libosgDB.so.43
#2  0x7f3d25347488 in osgDB::SharedStateManager::process () from 
/usr/local/lib64/libosgDB.so.43
#3  0x7f3d25347688 in osgDB::SharedStateManager::apply () from 
/usr/local/lib64/libosgDB.so.43
#4  0x7f3d253466f1 in osgDB::SharedStateManager::share () from 
/usr/local/lib64/libosgDB.so.43
#5  0x0090554c in SGLoadTexture2D (staticTexture=true, path=value 
optimized out, options=value optimized out, wrapu=false, wrapv=true)
at model.cxx:68
---Type return to continue, or q return to quit---
#6  0x008d1d96 in SGMaterial::assignTexture (this=value optimized 
out, state=0x74e3910, [EMAIL PROTECTED], _wrapu=true, _wrapv=48,
_mipmap=value optimized out) at 
../../../simgear/scene/model/model.hxx:37
#7  0x008d1eed in SGMaterial::get_state (this=0x74e2d80, n=value 
optimized out) at mat.cxx:236
#8  0x008e7412 in SGLoadBTG ([EMAIL PROTECTED], matlib=0x725a3c0, 
calc_lights=true, use_random_objects=true, use_random_vegetation=true)
at obj.cxx:394
#9  0x008dbb2d in SGReaderWriterBTG::readNode (this=0xd31140, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED], options=0x741d2b0) at SGReaderWriterBTG.cxx:73
#10 0x008dc51e in 
simgear::ModelRegistryCallbacksimgear::DefaultProcessPolicy, 
simgear::NoCachePolicy, simgear::NoOptimizePolicy, simgear::NoCopyPo---Type 
return to continue, or q return to quit---
licy, simgear::NoSubstitutePolicy::loadUsingReaderWriter 
([EMAIL PROTECTED], opt=0x741d2b0) at 
../../../simgear/scene/model/ModelRegistry.hxx:115
#11 0x008dc857 in 
simgear::ModelRegistryCallbacksimgear::DefaultProcessPolicy, 
simgear::NoCachePolicy, simgear::NoOptimizePolicy, simgear::NoCopyPolicy, 
simgear::NoSubstitutePolicy::readNode (this=0xd310d0, [EMAIL PROTECTED], 
opt=0x741d2b0) at ../../../simgear/scene/model/ModelRegistry.hxx:91
#12 0x00909e9f in simgear::ModelRegistry::readNode (this=0xd304d0, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED], opt=0x741d2b0) at ModelRegistry.cxx:500
#13 0x7f3d2532d599 in osgDB::readNodeFile () from 
/usr/local/lib64/libosgDB.so.43
#14 0x008df059 in simgear::TileEntry::obj_load ([EMAIL PROTECTED], 
geometry=0x7f3d1805cb00, is_base=true, options=0x1) at TileEntry.cxx:237
#15 0x008e1ae0 in simgear::TileEntry::loadTileByName 
([EMAIL PROTECTED], options=0x741d2b0) at TileEntry.cxx:419
---Type return to continue, or q return to quit---
#16 0x008f7edd in simgear::ReaderWriterSTG::readNode (this=0xd30f60, 
fileName=value optimized out, options=0x741d2b0) at ReaderWriterSTG.cxx:71
#17 0x008dc51e in 
simgear::ModelRegistryCallbacksimgear::DefaultProcessPolicy, 
simgear::NoCachePolicy, simgear::NoOptimizePolicy, simgear::NoCopyPolicy, 
simgear::NoSubstitutePolicy::loadUsingReaderWriter ([EMAIL PROTECTED], 
opt=0x741d2b0) at ../../../simgear/scene/model/ModelRegistry.hxx:115
#18 0x008dc857 in 
simgear::ModelRegistryCallbacksimgear::DefaultProcessPolicy, 
simgear::NoCachePolicy, simgear::NoOptimizePolicy, simgear::NoCopyPolicy, 
simgear::NoSubstitutePolicy::readNode (this=0xd31030, [EMAIL PROTECTED], 
opt=0x741d2b0) at ../../../simgear/scene/model/ModelRegistry.hxx:91
#19 0x00909e9f in simgear::ModelRegistry::readNode (this=0xd304d0, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED], opt=0x741d2b0) at ModelRegistry.cxx:500
#20 0x7f3d25302880 in 
osgDB::DatabasePager::DatabaseThread::dpReadRefNodeFile () from 
/usr/local/lib64/libosgDB.so.43
---Type return to continue, or q return to quit---
#21 0x7f3d25308c76 in osgDB::DatabasePager::DatabaseThread::run () from 
/usr/local/lib64/libosgDB.so.43
#22 0x7f3d248d9eb0 in OpenThreads::ThreadPrivateActions::StartThread () 
from /usr/local/lib64/libOpenThreads.so.11
#23 0x7f3d28297040 in start_thread () from /lib64/libpthread.so.0
#24 0x7f3d23efa0cd in clone () from /lib64/libc.so.6
(gdb) bt
#0  0x7f3d24ca20e1 in osg::StateSet::compare () from 
/usr/local/lib64/libosg.so.43
#1  0x7f3d253467e0 in osgDB::SharedStateManager::find 

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Another OpenSource FlightSim based on OSG

2008-08-26 Thread LeeE
On Monday 25 August 2008, Heiko Schulz wrote:
 Hi,

 Just a quick note:
 Today I found another OpenSource FlightSim which uses OSG. It is
 under GPL-licence, and has as features like:

 Carrier landing mission.
 Motion blur (-motion-blur).
 Sky dome.
 Sound effects (PLIB)
 Particle-system (improved explosions).
 Collision-detection.
 Can download satellite imagery and render spherical Earth using
 OSSIM.

 It uses our aircrafts, and looks quite nice. Maybe the source
 codes there are interesting for further developing of FlightGear?

 Look at: http://www.palomino3d.org/

 Cheers
 HHS

 still in work: http://www.hoerbird.net/galerie.html
 But already done: http://www.hoerbird.net/reisen.html

That's interesting.  I noticed that he hasn't got all the animations 
working yet and I couldn't find anything about the FDMs, but the 
ground cover imagery looks good.

LeeE

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