[Flightgear-devel] FlightGear Flight Pro Sim Statement
? re: http://www.flightgear.org/flightprosim.html I've just tried posting a link to this on facebook to warn all my friends, but unfortunately the information automatically extracted by the facebook sharing mechanism for the page is as follows: __ FlightGear Flight Simulator http://www.flightgear.org/flightprosim.html FlightGear is an open-source flight simulator that was created in 1996. It is released under the GNU General Public License v2, and as such, it is free to use, modify and distribute with few restrictions. It has been developed with the collaboration of a large number of individuals over the last 14+ [NO IMAGE] __ What it needs to be is something more like: __ Flight Pro Sim - FlightGear statement As many people will be aware, there is a (self described) new flight simulator product that is being widely and actively marketed at the moment under various names - Flight Pro Sim, Pro Flight Simulator, etc. These new simulators are simply a rebranding of the FlightGear open-source flight simulator. However, the marketing tactics of the Flight Pro Sim guys have caused more than a bit of confusion with end users. To help provide some clarity and answer some common questions, we (the core FlightGear development team) felt it was appropriate to make a statement, and provide a FAQ. [NICE IMAGE] __ i.e. the title of the page plus the first paragraph. The facebook sharing mechanism is unable to find any images. Is this important? Yes, a link without an image is very unlikely to gain the necessary attention in the crowded 'wall space' of facebook. Would it be possible to change the page to be more facebook friendly as described above? By the way, in writing this post, I've just had the thought that FlightGear Flight Pro Sim statement, if read/seen in isolation, could give the impression that Flight Pro Sim is *part of * the FlightGear project, hence my proposed reworded title above Flight Pro Sim - FlightGear statement. Mally - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3286 - Release Date: 11/28/10 -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FSP facebook ads
?I'd love to post a comment, but I just can't bring myself to click the Like button in order to have the right to do so... Doh! Mally - Original Message - From: Vivian Meazza vivian.mea...@lineone.net To: 'FlightGear developers discussions' flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2010 10:00 PM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] FSP facebook ads Torsten wrote It looks like there are only 2 or 3 different ads, but it took clicking on at least 14-16 of them before they stopped appearing on my fb page - nice, those behind FSP are uploading the same ads over and over, and calling them new ones each time... Looks like some FB users found out that not everything that is expensive is acutally good. This is the link to the group within FB: http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_125975030795919 Torsten (You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.) [A. Lincoln] There are some very pissed-off people out there who have been ripped off by FSP: http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=130223597035052topic=54#topic_top with a bit of luck they might just nail FSP for us :-) Vivian - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3285 - Release Date: 11/28/10 -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FSP facebook ads
?I doubt this is pay-per-click, so just clicking on the ads could be ineffective or couter-effective. However the strategy of reporting the ads is potentially a better one, particularly if enough people get involved I've dispatched two ads this morning via the X button: No 1 Flight Simulator x False advertising: The acknowledged #1 flight simulator by any measure is Microsoft Flight Simulator (No offence intended against FlightGear, I'm sure there are measures against which it is #1 but I wanted to present a clear argument, and besides, it was a little impulsive I will admit). New Flight Simulator x False advertising: This is not a new flight simulator, but the open-source flight simulator FlightGear which has been existence for many many years. This will obviously have no effect if I'm the only one doing this, but it worries me that as Chris says, the frequency of these ads (in all their variations) is increasing. It can only mean that an increasing number of people are actually following the ads up with orders. Mally - Original Message - From: Chris Wilkinson blobster...@yahoo.com.au To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 6:33 AM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] FSP facebook ads I'll route FSP's domains to 127.0.0.0 in my hosts file, then start clicking... My hope is that facebook will actually pay heed to my complaints, and look into the legality of the FSP adverts. That might save us from having to employ someone to do the same. Regards, Chris Wilkinson, YBBN/BNE. From: Ron Jensen w...@jentronics.com To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Tue, 23 November, 2010 1:04:55 PM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] FSP facebook ads On Monday 22 November 2010 14:41:42 Chris Wilkinson wrote: Hi guys/gals, I notice a big step up in frequency of seeing those pesky FSP ads on facebook. Sometimes I'm seeing 2 of them on the same page. My response to those is to click the little 'X' and respond that its either misleading, or click 'other' and give a quick comment that it may not fully meet the terms of the GPL, and is a rip-off of fgfs. It looks like there are only 2 or 3 different ads, but it took clicking on at least 14-16 of them before they stopped appearing on my fb page - nice, those behind FSP are uploading the same ads over and over, and calling them new ones each time... Regards, Chris Wilkinson, YBBN/BNE. Hmm, I just assume it costs them money each time I click on them... So I do. :P Ron -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3273 - Release Date: 11/22/10 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3275 - Release Date: 11/23/10 -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator The Most Realistic Flight Sim Ever
?Looks familiar? http://www.proflightsimulator.com/index3.html Not to be confused with FlightProSim (obviously). Mally - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3259 - Release Date: 11/15/10 -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightProSim advert on FaceBook
?Hi Chris I have reservations about this. It could easily backfire on you personally or turn out to be a traumatic event, particularly if it turns out to be more of a confrontation than a reasonable discussion. What are the odds of the latter do you think? I think the same could be achieved (at least partially) by sending the guy individual messages or an agreed collective letter on behalf of all of the FG community, but having said that, I do actually agree that face-to-face can ultimately be the most effective option - but at the same time, with somone who is completely unknown, it is a risk. It's possible of course that the gentleman in question is reading the forum, in which case I would just ask that he take some time to reflect seriously about the ethics of what he is doing, and attempt to find within his better nature the capacity to change the way he is going about this. From my viewpoint, it is not about giving a bit back. The main issues for me are that potential purchasers should be able to make a fully informed choice, that they should know completely what they are buying, and that he should comply fully with the GPL, i.e. by charging a fee ONLY for the physical act of transferring a copy of FG and optionally for a warranty if he wants to provide the same. If he did this and made it clear that this was what he was doing in his main web page/advertising, i.e. clearly informing potential purchasers that they were paying for these services rather than buying a product, then I would be very happy to see him succeed in his venture, and I'm sure he would be providing a valuable service. Mally - Original Message - From: Chris Wilkinson blobster...@yahoo.com.au To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 5:59 AM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightProSim advert on FaceBook This looks to be more of a moral issue than a legal one. I'll tell you what I'll do about this. I was born and raised in Christchurch, where this guy operates from, and I will be visiting the city in a months time. Perhaps I should pay the guy a visit? I wanna know where this guy gets off taking all YOUR hard work, and PROFITING from it, with NOTHING returned to the flightgear community. The legality of his actions could be debated in a court of law forever, but perhaps a bit of face time to directly express the sentiments of the flightgear community with the dude might convince him that there are REAL people who consider his actions immoral - you guys are more than just names attached to code commits on the internet, and I think this guy needs to be reminded that without your efforts his little endeavour would amount to NOTHING. I'm sure with some 'friendly persuasion' I can convince the guy to give a bit back. After all if he can help the efforts to improve flightgear, that will have a flow-on effect for him. He scratch our back, we scratch his... Regards, Chris Wilkinson, YBBN/BNE. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3251 - Release Date: 11/11/10 -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightProSim advert on FaceBook
?John, I fully agree. I despair that everyone seems to be saying this guy's operation is fully legal, almost like it's more convenient to assume that than to fight it. I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me that the GPL wording on the allowable scope of commercial activity is very clear, and this guy appears to be going well beyond it, or at least, there seems to be a very good case for questioning it. So now you have identified a body of lawyers who can help at no cost. (This is fantastic btw). The question is whether anyone here really wants to test the issue are whether they are happy to carry on being pissed off about it and not even take the opportunity to get an expert opinion. Frankly, I don't think we're fulfilling our responsibility to potential users of FlightGear if we don't do everything in OUR power to protect them from whatever FlightSimPro represents, and yes, it does reflect badly on the community, particularly if our collective response is to bury our heads in the sand and allow it to carry on unchallenged These adverts on Facebook are becoming more and more prolific, so this is an issue that is not really just a sideline. This is a advertising campaign with potentially a massive reach. Mally PS. It's just struck me that even his advert headline is misleading NEW Flight Simulator (my emphasis). PPS. I will check (if I can) if any code attributable to me is in the source. I think not, I was just debugging for someone else who had the code checked out iirc. - Original Message - From: J. Holden stattosoftw...@yahoo.com To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 4:28 PM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightProSim advert on FaceBook For the love of... Whatever your opinion on the legality of what they are doing, this is indeed a problem and reflects negatively on the community. Ignoring it will not make it go away. We need to know what we can do. Please, please, someone with a copyright interest in the software please contact the lawyers at http://www.softwarefreedom.org/ I am not saying this for fun. Cheers John -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3251 - Release Date: 11/11/10 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3251 - Release Date: 11/11/10 -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightProSim advert on FaceBook
? I despair that everyone seems to be saying this guy's operation is fully legal, [...] This might be your feeling, but does not properly reflect what's been written on this very list. If you're approaching legal affairs with assumptions _that_ vague and imprecise as the above 'summary', then you'll fail way before things have started. I've been making very specific legal points in my previous posts, none of which have been replied to specifically.. unless I've missed the relevant replies. I think that's what I'm finding frustrating. Yes, if we can get away from vagueness and imprecision, great, that's what we need. However we seem to be locked into thinking the legality hinges *only* on whether or not the source code is supplied complete with relevant notices (it is) and ignoring other important terms in the GPL. (Which I won't repeat here yet again). Mally - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3251 - Release Date: 11/11/10 -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightProSim advert on FaceBook
? Also, not sure if this was already mentioned. The person isn't only selling FG. He does the same with a lot of other GPLed software. Again, Google shows many similar sites - all with the same contact address in NZ. And I guess we'd find even more if we looked closer. Certainly looks like he's making his living from scams like this... http://www.flightprosim.com/disclaimer/ http://3dastronomer.net/terms-conditions http://www.3dboatdesign.com/disclaimer/ http://www.easybudgeter.com/disclaimer/ http://www.filesquasher.com/disclaimer/ http://singing-superstar.com/disclaimer/ It looks like, one way or another, the people over at Celestia have got whoever this person is to include a section at the bottom of the main page of 3dastronomer.com entitled Flexible and Open License Software which includes disclosure that the software is based on Celestia. If they could be persuaded to do the same for FPS it would go a long way to addressing my main concerns, namely that the public are not being fully informed before making a purchase. Mally - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3251 - Release Date: 11/11/10 -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightProSim advert on FaceBook
?Arnt ..url to your facebook page? Would be the useful one url I meant. ;o) Effectively, once I'm logged in, the URL to my personal facebook page is still just http://www.facebook.com/ . Unless you're logged in as me, you're not going to see what I see on the page anyway, and there's no way that even I can get the page to show me the advert again. Each refresh and it's something different. ..nope, url to your screenshot? Well I've not posted it online. I've already quoted the text in full, and there's a picture of a Cessna iirc. Not really a lot to be gained from seeing the advert itself, so I'm not sure it's worth the hassle of me uploading it somewhere. I can send you a copy privately by email if you like. Mally - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3249 - Release Date: 11/10/10 -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightProSim advert on FaceBook
?? However, they are offering some added value by selling FG on DVD, ..how? That may be another violation of the GPL. This is specifically allowed by the GPL which allows for charging for media, reproduction and distribution costs. This amazing software package is Yours Risk Free for only $47.00 Are they not more selling a software package rather than charging a fee for the physical act of transferring a copy, which along with offering warranty protection for a fee, is all that would seem to be specifically allowed in terms of commercial activity relating to FlightGear according to the relevant GPL? I won't make any judgement, but I would advise anyone interested to take a look at their main web page and draw their own conclusions. They also state that FPS is copyrighted and protected under the United States and other World Wide Copyright Laws. Can someone claim their own copyright in this way over a product based substantially or wholly on a GPL source? You tell me... Mally - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3248 - Release Date: 11/10/10 -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightProSim advert on FaceBook
? My question is, _do_ they offer the source as required under the GPL? Yes, they offer the full source code. Does this offer meet the full requirements of how it is to be delivered? I've no idea, but I do recall seeing a particular clause which I thought may not have been met. I don't have time right now to go back and look again, but I will if people here think there is any mileage in following any of this up. Mally - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3248 - Release Date: 11/10/10 -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] FlightProSim advert on FaceBook
?I've just had an advert for FlightSimPro prominently displayed on my FaceBook home page: QUOTE New Flight Simulator flightprosim.com Learning how to work the new flight simulator is very easy. You get 100% freedom, amazing scenery and a sophisticated Sky Model. UNQUOTE What is the current state of play with this from a legal point of view, and what is the current feeling towards this 'product' within the FlightGear community? Apologies if this has already been discussed, but maybe a high-profile ad campaign on FaceBook justifies a little more reflection? From an initial scan through their site and the GPL licence, it seems to me that there are some legal areas are at least worthy of investigation, and that says nothing of the ethics. Oh, and if I click the x button to the right of the ad, I get the option to report it to FaceBook. Do I have any specific grounds for doing this other than my general sense of distaste? Mally - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3246 - Release Date: 11/09/10 -- The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth: New Video Whitepaper David G. Thomson, author of the best-selling book Blueprint to a Billion shares his insights and actions to help propel your business during the next growth cycle. Listen Now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/SAP-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightProSim advert on FaceBook
?Arnt I think I have maybe one or two lines of code in FG... I helped fix a bug many moons ago. But I like to keep my interest in case there's anything I can offer in the future. Anyway, it's not really about that, and maybe in fact I should not concern myself with this issue given that I really have effectively no direct interest. It still bugs me to see they way this is being touted though. Does anyone else have any thoughts? Regarding the URL, simple it's www.facebook.com (as you know) but FaceBook is far from a static page, all composed on the fly and dynamically thereafter using ajax and whatever, so there's no URL I can usefully give you. The advert is no longer there for me, though I do have a saved copy of the page with it on, plus a screenshot. Has anyone else seen it? Mally - Original Message - From: Arnt Karlsen a...@c2i.net To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Cc: Mally ma...@tklm.freeserve.co.uk Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightProSim advert on FaceBook On Tue, 9 Nov 2010 15:33:45 -, Mally wrote in message 659018fab24b48ae85bc8d943d15e...@chuchote: ?I've just had an advert for FlightSimPro prominently displayed on my FaceBook home page: ..url? QUOTE New Flight Simulator flightprosim.com Learning how to work the new flight simulator is very easy. You get 100% freedom, amazing scenery and a sophisticated Sky Model. UNQUOTE What is the current state of play with this from a legal point of view, and what is the current feeling towards this 'product' within the FlightGear community? Apologies if this has already been discussed, but maybe a high-profile ad campaign on FaceBook justifies a little more reflection? From an initial scan through their site and the GPL licence, it seems to me that there are some legal areas are at least worthy of investigation, and that says nothing of the ethics. Oh, and if I click the x button to the right of the ad, I get the option to report it to FaceBook. Do I have any specific grounds for doing this other than my general sense of distaste? ..if you have written any FG code, then you own it, it's called copyright, and it forms the legal teeth of the GPL. If flightprosim.com offers your source code under the GPL, they may be in compliance with the GPL. If they don't, and distribute etc your code only as binaries under some proprietary EULA without your permission, they are in criminal violation of copyright law. ..and then we have Facebook's role in this. My advice is, hire a lawyer. ;o) My understanding is Facebook will want to help seize _your_ money from flightprosim.com, and then there's the tremble damages and legal costs. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth: New Video Whitepaper David G. Thomson, author of the best-selling book Blueprint to a Billion shares his insights and actions to help propel your business during the next growth cycle. Listen Now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/SAP-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3246 - Release Date: 11/09/10 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3246 - Release Date: 11/09/10 -- The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth: New Video Whitepaper David G. Thomson, author of the best-selling book Blueprint to a Billion shares his insights and actions to help propel your business during the next growth cycle. Listen Now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/SAP-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ridding Multiplayer of Abusers
?How about two systems? An introductory/open system, and a second system available only to those people who have not abused the first? (I won't go into practical details, it's just the basic idea I'm tentatively proposing. It could be a complete non-runner for fundamental reasons I'm not aware of)/. Mally - Original Message - From: Curtis Olson curtol...@gmail.com To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 1:39 PM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ridding Multiplayer of Abusers It would not be dissimilar from the forum, or the wiki or any other CMS. All those systems need to deal with user management and authentication, and as soon as the flightgear MP starts ruling the world, we'll probably see spambots too. Once we start attracting spammers then do we still consider it a free world where a social solution and peer pressure is the best option? You are right though that it could be a large project. On the other hand, there is a lot of systems that do authentication ... maybe there are some modules available that we could just plug in and use that wouldn't require starting from scratch? I'm not saying this is what we *should* do, I was merely suggesting that it's a possible route we could take, and perhaps with some small tweaks to the MP protocol we could easily support authenticated servers. Would it be bad if a user had a choice between the open free for all we currently have and a more constrained and managed system (that someone has taken the time to build and continues to manage.) Regards, Curt. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 7:30 AM, Martin Spott wrote: Curtis Olson wrote: Another thought. I know it would be a huge effort to setup a system with user id's and passwords, self registration, [...] ^ To be honest, I'd expect those who deliberately are being rude will just create a new account after they've been locked out. This requires someone to perform continuous maintenance on the system. If you/we are really serious about setting up an authentication system, then there's probably no other suitable means expect from introducing some initial test/exam which, as well, requires a huge effort to set up and maintain. That would be a project on its own. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Download new Adobe(R) Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 The new Adobe(R) Flex(R) 4 and Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 (formerly Flex(R) Builder(TM)) enable the development of rich applications that run across multiple browsers and platforms. Download your free trials today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org - http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/curt/http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/personal/curt/ -- Download new Adobe(R) Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 The new Adobe(R) Flex(R) 4 and Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 (formerly Flex(R) Builder(TM)) enable the development of rich applications that run across multiple browsers and platforms. Download your free trials today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1136 / Virus Database: 422/3207 - Release Date: 10/19/10 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1136 / Virus Database: 422/3207 - Release Date: 10/19/10 -- Download new Adobe(R) Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 The new Adobe(R) Flex(R) 4 and Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 (formerly Flex(R) Builder(TM)) enable the development of rich applications that run across multiple browsers and platforms. Download your free trials today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ridding Multiplayer of Abusers
?Forgive my ignorance, but what happens at the moment? Does nobody say anything to the abusers? Doesn't peer pressure, good example and setting guidelines present a more realistic solution (realistic by comparison with what happens in real world aviation I mean) rather than coming up with an automated system of blocking and control? Mally - Original Message - From: syd adams adams@gmail.com To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ridding Multiplayer of Abusers That stuff is unnecessary and in real life you'd probably get your license yanked if you were caught using foul language on the radio. Here, in Canada , its a $5000 fine and/or a year in jail.That,s a pretty good deterrent :). -- Download new Adobe(R) Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 The new Adobe(R) Flex(R) 4 and Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 (formerly Flex(R) Builder(TM)) enable the development of rich applications that run across multiple browsers and platforms. Download your free trials today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1136 / Virus Database: 422/3206 - Release Date: 10/19/10 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1136 / Virus Database: 422/3206 - Release Date: 10/19/10 -- Download new Adobe(R) Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 The new Adobe(R) Flex(R) 4 and Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 (formerly Flex(R) Builder(TM)) enable the development of rich applications that run across multiple browsers and platforms. Download your free trials today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear v2.0.0 short description
?I have the impression that this press release is written initially from a developer's perspective rather than addressing users and prospective users. It opens with FlightGear 2.0.0. reflects the maturation of the OpenSceneGraph port which probably will not mean a lot to the majority of people who will come into contact with FlightGear, even though the subsequent detail contains many items that would be of more general interest. I guess what I'm saying is that it would be worth thinking about who the press releases are being written for as well as who they are written by, and maybe the same sort of thinking would apply to determining what constitutes a major release? Just my thoughts Mally - Original Message - From: Durk Talsma durkt...@gmail.com To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 9:11 AM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear v2.0.0 short description On 13 Oct 2010, at 09:58, Martin Spott wrote: Well, in case of doubt I'd probably just ask those people, who decided that it's been worth incrementing the major release number for this very relase - they should know best ;-) Eeuh, that would have been me (amongst others). The full press release I had written for 2.0. can be found here though: http://www.flightgear.org/version.html Cheers, Durk -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today. http://p.sf.net/sfu/beautyoftheweb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3193 - Release Date: 10/12/10 19:37:00 -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today. http://p.sf.net/sfu/beautyoftheweb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] A useles philosophical observation
?Actually I think it remains useful even without getting into specifics. In order for suspension of disbelief to trick the human brain into thinking a simulation is plausible, there has to be a consistent level of representation of the real world, whether that's a low level, intermediate, or high. If you stick a blocky, flat-textured object into a near-perfectly rendered landscape, suddenly it becomes unbelievable, you cannot pretend any more that it is real. Likewise a perfectly rendered aircraft against a blocky, flat-textured landscape for example. It's the incongruities which jar. The trick is to try to take everything up to the next level at the same time, but clearly unless you're prepared to hold everything back for a major synchronised release every 2-3 years, that's not going to happen. So really, this general principal is more important (philosophically) than the detail of specifically which points are currently considered weak. They were probably state-of-the-art when they were first implemented, just as it happens, they out of sync with the rest, and will surely catch up (or overtake!) in the normal course of development. Mally - Original Message - From: thorsten.i.r...@jyu.fi To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 11:35 AM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] A useles philosophical observation I was experimenting with the new water shader and local weather, and I could not help myself thinking how sad it is, that the more perfect the simulation gets, the more noticeable the remaining weak points become. Well, it would turn into a useful philosophical observation once you could tell us what you see as the weak points, then we could have a discussion how to address them... Cheers, * Thorsten -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.856 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3158 - Release Date: 09/25/10 07:34:00 -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
