Re: [Flightgear-devel] Consistent aircraft states
On ven 12 octobre 2007, David Megginson wrote: On 12/10/2007, Vivian Meazza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You can have your aircraft any way you want, but don't force it on other designers without some real thought. Start the Spitfire and forget to zero the throttle, you will start on your nose. That doesn't give a good impression to newcomers. I'm actually suggesting the opposite -- instead of having each designer decide, let the users start the aircraft any way *they* want. I think the default should be with the engine on and idling, but that's a separate discussion. The first step is to agree on a global property and start modifying aircraft configs to honour it; then we can debate what the default value of that property should be. All the best, David Only one generic property switch is necessary. We must only, all together decide which name and where (/sim/ ??) With it it the designer can control the model aircraft conditions (property) which are necessary according to the user wishes. With FDM Yasim Aircraft, it can be done easily solve with Nasal script With FDM Jsbsim Aircraft that switch may activate any property which are necessary to have the aircraft in hot configuration. For instance looking at one of my model to have the right flying conditions, i need: Canopy = Down Wing-folds = Off Wing-incidence = Down Electric-power = On Cut-off = Off Engine= running Throttle = 0.6 Landing-gear = Up All these property could be switched according to that Cold/Hot property Cheers -- Gérard http://perso.orange.fr/GRTux/ - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Consistent aircraft states
On 12/10/2007, drew [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have my .fgfsrc file set up so I start on the run-up area just off the main runway at KSFO: --lat=37.612451 --lon=-122.357858 --heading=026 so I have the time to do pre-flight checks (and explore the cockpit and README's of new and unfamiliar a/c) without clogging up the threshold. If you want to be even more realistic, you can start on the GA apron off taxiway C north of firehall #2. From the following diagram, it looks like longitude 122 23.0 W (-122.38) and latitude 37 37.7 N (37.638333) should do the trick, with a heading of around 150 deg T so that you're parked sideways to the FBO: http://flightaware.com/resources/airport/SFO/APD/AIRPORT+DIAGRAM/pdf You can read about the actual Signature FBO here: http://www.airnav.com/airport/KSFO/SIGNATURE All the best, David - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Consistent aircraft states
For what it's worth, I think it's great to have a choice, at start-up, between a cold and hot start (as with the c150). More than half the fun of a sim, as opposed to a game, is the realism of exploring the cockpit for the necessary switches and knobs to get the bloody thing going and airborne. The an2 is one of my favourites - for this very reason. I have my .fgfsrc file set up so I start on the run-up area just off the main runway at KSFO: --lat=37.612451 --lon=-122.357858 --heading=026 so I have the time to do pre-flight checks (and explore the cockpit and README's of new and unfamiliar a/c) without clogging up the threshold. Blue skies, Drew On Saturday 13 October 2007 00:58:09 David Megginson wrote: On 12/10/2007, Vivian Meazza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You can have your aircraft any way you want, but don't force it on other designers without some real thought. Start the Spitfire and forget to zero the throttle, you will start on your nose. That doesn't give a good impression to newcomers. I'm actually suggesting the opposite -- instead of having each designer decide, let the users start the aircraft any way *they* want. I think the default should be with the engine on and idling, but that's a separate discussion. The first step is to agree on a global property and start modifying aircraft configs to honour it; then we can debate what the default value of that property should be. All the best, David - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Consistent aircraft states
David Megginson Sent: 12 October 2007 15:11 To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Consistent aircraft states On 12/10/2007, dave perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Welcome back. I am the one that made all the changes to the Warrior. Starting directions and keyboard switch equivalents are under the help menu-Aircraft help, just like with the pa24-250. It was after you had commented on how you liked what I had done on the pa24 that you sent me your pictures and asked if I wanted to continue developing the Warrior, so I used the pa24 nasal work as a starting point for implementing the Warrior electrical system and switches. You did a great job on it -- I'm very impressed. I still consider the Warrior your aircraft and had communicated to you off list in mid August that I had made updates and changes. I asked for feedback in that note. I assume that you did not disable or bypass the nasal implemented switches with the above change. No, but I did migrate some of the property settings out of the Nasal script and into the XML settings file. I am clearly one that prefers to start with the brakes set and all switches off as that is the way every real flight starts. (An aside: In my experience, it's rare that the parking brake is on when a real light plane is parked, because line staff wouldn't be able to move it around without gaining inside access -- in fact, when I get out of the plane at a remote airport, the first question from line staff is usually not do you need fuel? but is the brake off?. Normally, a plane on an apron is chocked, while a plane in longer-term parking is tied down.) But I also see the advantage of having an easy option to start in the air with switches and fuel valve set for an approach. Perhaps with a little more effort, there is a way to accomplish both. Here are a few usability guidelines that might help: 1. Consistency - all aircraft should start in same default state as far as possible (obviously, a glider doesn't have an engine), so that a user isn't surprised when switching aircraft types. 2. Configurability - it should be not only possible but very easy for a user to override the default state without editing XML or Nasal files. 3. Simplicity - the default state should be the easiest one for new users. Experienced users will have an easier time changing the default. I suggest that we introduce a new global property, such as /sim/start-state, which can be set to (say) parked, in-air, or idling. The configuration files for every aircraft could respect that property, so that if you set it to parked, *every* aircraft (even the default 172) would start parked, etc. (we could even put it on the apron instead of the runway if we add parking coordinates to the airports file). I think idling should be the default the first time someone runs FlightGear, since it's standard with all flight sims and by far the easiest for new users, but one menu selection should be able to switch to parked for people (like you) who prefer to go through the startup and taxiing routine every time. All the best, You can have your aircraft any way you want, but don't force it on other designers without some real thought. Start the Spitfire and forget to zero the throttle, you will start on your nose. That doesn't give a good impression to newcomers. On the other hand, there are quite a number of ac which seem to need some tlc. Several JSBSim ac want to start on their backs here post recent updates. Vivian - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Consistent aircraft states
On 12/10/2007, dave perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Welcome back. I am the one that made all the changes to the Warrior. Starting directions and keyboard switch equivalents are under the help menu-Aircraft help, just like with the pa24-250. It was after you had commented on how you liked what I had done on the pa24 that you sent me your pictures and asked if I wanted to continue developing the Warrior, so I used the pa24 nasal work as a starting point for implementing the Warrior electrical system and switches. You did a great job on it -- I'm very impressed. I still consider the Warrior your aircraft and had communicated to you off list in mid August that I had made updates and changes. I asked for feedback in that note. I assume that you did not disable or bypass the nasal implemented switches with the above change. No, but I did migrate some of the property settings out of the Nasal script and into the XML settings file. I am clearly one that prefers to start with the brakes set and all switches off as that is the way every real flight starts. (An aside: In my experience, it's rare that the parking brake is on when a real light plane is parked, because line staff wouldn't be able to move it around without gaining inside access -- in fact, when I get out of the plane at a remote airport, the first question from line staff is usually not do you need fuel? but is the brake off?. Normally, a plane on an apron is chocked, while a plane in longer-term parking is tied down.) But I also see the advantage of having an easy option to start in the air with switches and fuel valve set for an approach. Perhaps with a little more effort, there is a way to accomplish both. Here are a few usability guidelines that might help: 1. Consistency - all aircraft should start in same default state as far as possible (obviously, a glider doesn't have an engine), so that a user isn't surprised when switching aircraft types. 2. Configurability - it should be not only possible but very easy for a user to override the default state without editing XML or Nasal files. 3. Simplicity - the default state should be the easiest one for new users. Experienced users will have an easier time changing the default. I suggest that we introduce a new global property, such as /sim/start-state, which can be set to (say) parked, in-air, or idling. The configuration files for every aircraft could respect that property, so that if you set it to parked, *every* aircraft (even the default 172) would start parked, etc. (we could even put it on the apron instead of the runway if we add parking coordinates to the airports file). I think idling should be the default the first time someone runs FlightGear, since it's standard with all flight sims and by far the easiest for new users, but one menu selection should be able to switch to parked for people (like you) who prefer to go through the startup and taxiing routine every time. All the best, David - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Consistent aircraft states
On 12/10/2007, gerard robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Only one generic property switch is necessary. We must only, all together decide which name and where (/sim/ ??) [snip] For instance looking at one of my model to have the right flying conditions, i need: Canopy = Down Wing-folds = Off Wing-incidence = Down Electric-power = On Cut-off = Off Engine= running Throttle = 0.6 Landing-gear = Up All these property could be switched according to that Cold/Hot property The sim can also decide where/how to place the aircraft (if not otherwise specified) based on the value. For example, by default, we could place the aircraft 1,000 ft above the airport at cruise speed if the value were in-air, on the runway threshold (as now) if the value were idling, and on the apron (assuming we have coordinates) if the value were parked. All the best, David - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Consistent aircraft states
I am clearly one that prefers to start with the brakes set and all switches off as that is the way every real flight starts. (An aside: In my experience, it's rare that the parking brake is on when a real light plane is parked, because line staff wouldn't be able to move it around without gaining inside access -- in fact, when I get out of the plane at a remote airport, the first question from line staff is usually not do you need fuel? but is the brake off?. Normally, a plane on an apron is chocked, while a plane in longer-term parking is tied down.) Also, if the brakes were applied for long periods of time, they might fuse to the discs, requiring replacement of both. (just my $0.05 worth, with inflation and tax) Bill - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
