Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D trees
On Sunday 30 December 2007 12:09:28 LeeE wrote: > It's Interesting to see that they have less impact than billboards > but I wonder if this means that there's a problem FG's billboards > implementation - after all, a billboards are just single (split) > poly objects, albeit ones that rotate to face the viewer. I think it's the transparency in the texture that is the problem. On a related note, the visual realism of Flightgear can be increased if Bi-directional Reflectance Distribution Function (BRDF) can be incoporated when applying textures to vegetation area, especially for area that are at considerable distance from the camera. Basically, this is to simulate the reflectance and transmittance of a canopy when view at different angle, and could give similar results to using million of tree models, without actually using million of tree models. Just an idea, Ampere - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D trees
Am Sonntag, den 30.12.2007, 17:09 + schrieb LeeE: > On Sunday 30 December 2007 09:47, Detlef Faber wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I've been experimenting with 3D Trees to replace the Billboard > > trees. Here are some screenshots: > > > > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/forest1.jpg > > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/forest2.jpg > > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/forest3.jpg > > > > The pictures were taken with V1.0, using a tree density 50 times > > higher than default. This makes NOE flying really interesting :-) > > > > There is an archive with the Models here: > > > > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/trees.zip > > > > It replaces the coniferous-tree and coniferous-tree3 models > > in /data/Models/Trees. Also included is a materials.xml with the > > higher density and without billboarding. > > > > Comments and suggestions are welcome. > > > > > > Greetings > > > > Detlef Faber > > > > > > http://sol2500.net/flightgear > > I think they look pretty good:) > > I've been thinking about doing something very much like this in the > context of a trekking/hiking/orienteering adaptation of FG. > > Are you thinking of LODing the trees as a next step? With, at a > guess, three to five levels of LOD I think this could be an even > more effective feature. Yes that is my intention. Another thing I like to add is the trees react to the season property (no leaves in winter, green leaves in summer, yellow and brown ones in winter). Maybe this could be extended to agricultural zones (plowed/growing crop fields, etc). > > It's Interesting to see that they have less impact than billboards > but I wonder if this means that there's a problem FG's billboards > implementation - after all, a billboards are just single (split) > poly objects, albeit ones that rotate to face the viewer. > > Could it be that the overhead of rotating many simple billboard > objects accounts for the performance hit over an equivalent number > of more complex static models? > I agree with Josh that this is due to the transparency used. There seems to be a bug in the transparency handling, because I didn't get this DList stack overflow with billboarding 3d trees. > Nice work anyway:) > > LeeE > > - > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D trees
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Josh Babcock schrieb: > LeeE wrote: >> On Sunday 30 December 2007 09:47, Detlef Faber wrote: >>> Hello, > >> Could it be that the overhead of rotating many simple billboard >> objects accounts for the performance hit over an equivalent number >> of more complex static models? > > Probably has more to do with the fact that the billboards are not only > UV mapped, but also have an alpha channel. These new ones appear to just > be using OGL materials. I wonder, does OSG do vertex painting? That > would be a great way to make these look better without adding a texture. I'm a bit out of the current 3D programming that FGFS uses... But wouldn't a vertex shader help in this case (for billboarding as well as generic trees)? CU, Christian -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHd9/poWM1JLkHou0RCFCfAKCE2g6AAdHOUffVyPNzt8BtSQSZrgCfYnUW ig9HdTPaKCJWjqD+Twk/t0k= =UOSw -END PGP SIGNATURE- - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D trees
LeeE wrote: > On Sunday 30 December 2007 09:47, Detlef Faber wrote: >> Hello, > > Could it be that the overhead of rotating many simple billboard > objects accounts for the performance hit over an equivalent number > of more complex static models? > > Nice work anyway:) > > LeeE Probably has more to do with the fact that the billboards are not only UV mapped, but also have an alpha channel. These new ones appear to just be using OGL materials. I wonder, does OSG do vertex painting? That would be a great way to make these look better without adding a texture. Josh - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D trees
On Sunday 30 December 2007 09:47, Detlef Faber wrote: > Hello, > > I've been experimenting with 3D Trees to replace the Billboard > trees. Here are some screenshots: > > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/forest1.jpg > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/forest2.jpg > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/forest3.jpg > > The pictures were taken with V1.0, using a tree density 50 times > higher than default. This makes NOE flying really interesting :-) > > There is an archive with the Models here: > > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/trees.zip > > It replaces the coniferous-tree and coniferous-tree3 models > in /data/Models/Trees. Also included is a materials.xml with the > higher density and without billboarding. > > Comments and suggestions are welcome. > > > Greetings > > Detlef Faber > > > http://sol2500.net/flightgear I think they look pretty good:) I've been thinking about doing something very much like this in the context of a trekking/hiking/orienteering adaptation of FG. Are you thinking of LODing the trees as a next step? With, at a guess, three to five levels of LOD I think this could be an even more effective feature. It's Interesting to see that they have less impact than billboards but I wonder if this means that there's a problem FG's billboards implementation - after all, a billboards are just single (split) poly objects, albeit ones that rotate to face the viewer. Could it be that the overhead of rotating many simple billboard objects accounts for the performance hit over an equivalent number of more complex static models? Nice work anyway:) LeeE - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D trees
--- Detlef Faber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: > > Am Sonntag, den 30.12.2007, 12:38 +0100 schrieb > Heiko Schulz: > > Hi, > > > > Looks good - so the difficult seems to be in the > > moment with billboard-trees. > > > > I tried it with some higher values: > > 6000 > > > ... > > 25 > > Beware, lower values here give higher tree coverage. > Lowest possible > value is 1000. > > > > > I noticed a impact about 90-30% of fps with Dual > AMD > > Athlon 2,8GHz, 4GB Ram, Gainward 8800 GT. > > > > With the values by Detlef I noticed no impact. > > > > Did domeone try this with the new Autogen by > Stuart in > > OSG? I would like to know if the perfomance is > better > > there... > > > > Regards > > HHS > > > > > > still in work: > http://www.hoerbird.net/galerie.html > > But already done: > http://www.hoerbird.net/reisen.html > > Hi, there was a misspelling by me: I wanted to have more trees, so I lowerd the value. So "higher value" is wrong here ;-) I only wanted to test more realistic-looking forest- I think there is still a lot of possibility for improvement ( would like to see a realistic dense of trees without having trouble with fps) Regards HHS still in work: http://www.hoerbird.net/galerie.html But already done: http://www.hoerbird.net/reisen.html Heute schon einen Blick in die Zukunft von E-Mails wagen? www.yahoo.de/mail - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D trees
Am Sonntag, den 30.12.2007, 12:38 +0100 schrieb Heiko Schulz: > Hi, > > Looks good - so the difficult seems to be in the > moment with billboard-trees. > > I tried it with some higher values: > 6000 > ... > 25 Beware, lower values here give higher tree coverage. Lowest possible value is 1000. > > I noticed a impact about 90-30% of fps with Dual AMD > Athlon 2,8GHz, 4GB Ram, Gainward 8800 GT. > > With the values by Detlef I noticed no impact. > > Did domeone try this with the new Autogen by Stuart in > OSG? I would like to know if the perfomance is better > there... > > Regards > HHS > > > still in work: http://www.hoerbird.net/galerie.html > But already done: http://www.hoerbird.net/reisen.html > > > Machen Sie Yahoo! zu Ihrer Startseite. Los geht's: > http://de.yahoo.com/set > > - > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D trees
Hi, Looks good - so the difficult seems to be in the moment with billboard-trees. I tried it with some higher values: 6000 ... 25 I noticed a impact about 90-30% of fps with Dual AMD Athlon 2,8GHz, 4GB Ram, Gainward 8800 GT. With the values by Detlef I noticed no impact. Did domeone try this with the new Autogen by Stuart in OSG? I would like to know if the perfomance is better there... Regards HHS still in work: http://www.hoerbird.net/galerie.html But already done: http://www.hoerbird.net/reisen.html Machen Sie Yahoo! zu Ihrer Startseite. Los geht's: http://de.yahoo.com/set - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D trees
Am Sonntag, den 30.12.2007, 11:42 +0100 schrieb Detlef Faber: > Am Sonntag, den 30.12.2007, 02:08 -0800 schrieb Syd&Sandy: > > On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:47:39 +0100 > > Detlef Faber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > I've been experimenting with 3D Trees to replace the Billboard trees. > > > Here are some screenshots: > > > > > > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/forest1.jpg > > > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/forest2.jpg > > > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/forest3.jpg > > > > > > The pictures were taken with V1.0, using a tree density 50 times higher > > > than default. This makes NOE flying really interesting :-) > > > > > > There is an archive with the Models here: > > > > > > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/trees.zip > > > > > > It replaces the coniferous-tree and coniferous-tree3 models > > > in /data/Models/Trees. Also included is a materials.xml with the higher > > > density and without billboarding. > > > > > > Comments and suggestions are welcome. > > > > > > > > > Greetings > > > > > > Detlef Faber > > > > > > > > > http://sol2500.net/flightgear > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > > > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. > > > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ > > > ___ > > > Flightgear-devel mailing list > > > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > > > > Wow ...looks promising > > How do quad trees perform ? > > I know here the osgforest runs slightly faster with quad trees than > > billboarded trees ... > > > > With the 3D trees at this density I get a framerate of 50 - 60 fps on a > single core Turion MT-30, 1 GB and a Nvidia Geforce 6600. > > With Billboard trees the framerate drops to 20-30 fps. > and I get lots of WARNING: DList stack overflow! which I don't get with the 3D trees. > > > Cheers > > > > > - > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D trees
Am Sonntag, den 30.12.2007, 02:08 -0800 schrieb Syd&Sandy: > On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:47:39 +0100 > Detlef Faber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > I've been experimenting with 3D Trees to replace the Billboard trees. > > Here are some screenshots: > > > > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/forest1.jpg > > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/forest2.jpg > > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/forest3.jpg > > > > The pictures were taken with V1.0, using a tree density 50 times higher > > than default. This makes NOE flying really interesting :-) > > > > There is an archive with the Models here: > > > > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/trees.zip > > > > It replaces the coniferous-tree and coniferous-tree3 models > > in /data/Models/Trees. Also included is a materials.xml with the higher > > density and without billboarding. > > > > Comments and suggestions are welcome. > > > > > > Greetings > > > > Detlef Faber > > > > > > http://sol2500.net/flightgear > > > > > > > > - > > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. > > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ > > ___ > > Flightgear-devel mailing list > > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > > Wow ...looks promising > How do quad trees perform ? > I know here the osgforest runs slightly faster with quad trees than > billboarded trees ... > With the 3D trees at this density I get a framerate of 50 - 60 fps on a single core Turion MT-30, 1 GB and a Nvidia Geforce 6600. With Billboard trees the framerate drops to 20-30 fps. > Cheers > - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D trees
On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:47:39 +0100 Detlef Faber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello, > > I've been experimenting with 3D Trees to replace the Billboard trees. > Here are some screenshots: > > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/forest1.jpg > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/forest2.jpg > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/forest3.jpg > > The pictures were taken with V1.0, using a tree density 50 times higher > than default. This makes NOE flying really interesting :-) > > There is an archive with the Models here: > > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/trees.zip > > It replaces the coniferous-tree and coniferous-tree3 models > in /data/Models/Trees. Also included is a materials.xml with the higher > density and without billboarding. > > Comments and suggestions are welcome. > > > Greetings > > Detlef Faber > > > http://sol2500.net/flightgear > > > > - > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel Wow ...looks promising ! How do quad trees perform ? I know here the osgforest runs slightly faster with quad trees than billboarded trees ... Cheers -- Syd&Sandy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] 3D trees
Hello, I've been experimenting with 3D Trees to replace the Billboard trees. Here are some screenshots: http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/forest1.jpg http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/forest2.jpg http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/forest3.jpg The pictures were taken with V1.0, using a tree density 50 times higher than default. This makes NOE flying really interesting :-) There is an archive with the Models here: http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/trees.zip It replaces the coniferous-tree and coniferous-tree3 models in /data/Models/Trees. Also included is a materials.xml with the higher density and without billboarding. Comments and suggestions are welcome. Greetings Detlef Faber http://sol2500.net/flightgear - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
