Re: [Flightgear-devel] Forums integration thought
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Stockill wrote: Alex Perry wrote: I know our development culture is built around mailing lists. I'm sure the FlightGear community will be decisively split between forums versus mailing lists if I ask people's preferences ... so I'm not expecting a consensus here. Is this anything that is worth exploring? I'd also hate to look in two places. On the other hand, changing how we present the mailing list archives so they look like a forum _and_ allow replying if you have logged in ... would be really useful. Logging in implies an account whose email address has been verified in the same way that mailman does. So it can't be used for spamming unless you could easily have spammed with the mailman list system. Mailman has the facility to gate mailing lists to usenet groups. There's also a PHP based news client, which presents it all just like a forum. gmane.org is already doing doing that for the flightgear lists. Is what they provide forum-like enough? Tim -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFbqSkeDhWHdXrDRURAmdTAJ9Ru4LLenB/r7RFvG85I6SpeiYHcgCgr7Wp 5g9+7uh3MPWbEBe53i2Pxhw= =FTkQ -END PGP SIGNATURE- - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Forums integration thought
I know our development culture is built around mailing lists. I'm sure the FlightGear community will be decisively split between forums versus mailing lists if I ask people's preferences ... so I'm not expecting a consensus here. Is this anything that is worth exploring? I'd also hate to look in two places. On the other hand, changing how we present the mailing list archives so they look like a forum _and_ allow replying if you have logged in ... would be really useful. Logging in implies an account whose email address has been verified in the same way that mailman does. So it can't be used for spamming unless you could easily have spammed with the mailman list system. --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Forums integration thought
On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 09:27:29 -0800, Alex wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I know our development culture is built around mailing lists. I'm sure the FlightGear community will be decisively split between forums versus mailing lists if I ask people's preferences ... so I'm not expecting a consensus here. Is this anything that is worth exploring? I'd also hate to look in two places. On the other hand, changing how we present the mailing list archives so they look like a forum _and_ allow replying if you have logged in ... would be really useful. Logging in implies an account whose email address has been verified in the same way that mailman does. So it can't be used for spamming unless you could easily have spammed with the mailman list system. ..I too like this way of doing it. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Forums integration thought
On Wednesday 29 November 2006 13:29, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 09:27:29 -0800, Alex wrote in message I'd also hate to look in two places. On the other hand, changing how we present the mailing list archives so they look like a forum _and_ allow replying if you have logged in ... would be really useful. Logging in implies an account whose email address has been verified in the same way that mailman does. So it can't be used for spamming unless you could easily have spammed with the mailman list system. ..I too like this way of doing it. Same here. Ampere - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Forums integration thought
On 11/29/06, Ampere K. Hardraade wrote: On Wednesday 29 November 2006 13:29, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 09:27:29 -0800, Alex wrote in message I'd also hate to look in two places. On the other hand, changing how we present the mailing list archives so they look like a forum _and_ allow replying if you have logged in ... would be really useful. Logging in implies an account whose email address has been verified in the same way that mailman does. So it can't be used for spamming unless you could easily have spammed with the mailman list system. ..I too like this way of doing it. Same here. This sounds good and I've seen one place that had this set up (egroups?) but I've not run across open-source software package that can actually do this and I'm not at a point in my life where I have time to write a custom list archiver/bbs hybrid system myself. I don't know ... I'm not sold on the idea of forums exactly, but I do sense that a different group of users will probably latch onto the forums and feel a lot more comfortable using them versus email lists. I think that email lists are intimidating to some people ... and perhaps forums are intimidating or seem like a pain to other people. Maybe there's something to be said about forcing/funneling all the discussions through one mechanism, but on the other hand there's something to be said about giving people options and letting them choose what they are most comfortable with. I just realize I have said absolutely nothing. :-) I think I'm going to let them run just a bit longer and then maybe we can an idea if enough people think they are useful and are using them. Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olson - University of Minnesota - FlightGear Project http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ http://www.flightgear.org Unique text: 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Forums integration thought
Curt wrote: I just realize I have said absolutely nothing. :-) I think I'm going to let them run just a bit longer and then maybe we can an idea if enough people think they are useful and are using them. If the community is split into two different camps, communication is going to suffer, plain and simple. I can receive email wherever I am and reply or not. I can set up filters and rules in my email program to sort the email posts. If the mails to the FlightGear-devel lists are archived in a forum, that's fine. If posts to a forum are likewise echoed to the -devel list, that's fine. In other words, if there are two ways to view a single communication venue, that's fine. But if there are two completely independent venues to discuss issues (say, the Users list), that would be very, very bad. It really defeats the purpose of having any kind of discussion group/list/forum at all. Jon - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Forums integration thought
On 11/29/06, Jon S. Berndt wrote: If the community is split into two different camps, communication is going to suffer, plain and simple. I can receive email wherever I am and reply or not. I can set up filters and rules in my email program to sort the email posts. If the mails to the FlightGear-devel lists are archived in a forum, that's fine. If posts to a forum are likewise echoed to the -devel list, that's fine. In other words, if there are two ways to view a single communication venue, that's fine. But if there are two completely independent venues to discuss issues (say, the Users list), that would be very, very bad. It really defeats the purpose of having any kind of discussion group/list/forum at all. All good points, but consider that we aren't really starting anything new here. There are FlightGear forums that exist already (i.e. Avsim) where useful discussion occurs and where people actually expect to post questions or comments and get help and feedback. So the forum thing is already in play, I'd just like to see if I can consolodate it under one roof rather than being spread around the world. There's things I like about mailing lists and things I like about web based forums. Someday I'm going to follow in the footsteps of Knuth and refuse to use email or forums at all. When I get a secretary (probably in a future life) their first task will be to start printing out all my emails for me. :-) Curt. -- Curtis Olson - University of Minnesota - FlightGear Project http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ http://www.flightgear.org Unique text: 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Forums integration thought
On 11/29/06, Jon S. Berndt wrote: If the community is split into two different camps, communication is going to suffer, plain and simple. I can receive email wherever I am and reply or not. I can set up filters and rules in my email program to sort the email posts. If the mails to the FlightGear-devel lists are archived in a forum, that's fine. If posts to a forum are likewise echoed to the -devel list, that's fine. In other words, if there are two ways to view a single communication venue, that's fine. But if there are two completely independent venues to discuss issues (say, the Users list), that would be very, very bad. It really defeats the purpose of having any kind of discussion group/list/forum at all. All good points, but consider that we aren't really starting anything new here. There are FlightGear forums that exist already (i.e. Avsim) where useful discussion occurs and where people actually expect to post questions or comments and get help and feedback. So the forum thing is already in play ... Curt. True, the forum thing is already in play, and communication is likewise already suffering because of it. I know this from experience. I'll be doing a Google search and find a reference to JSBSim, for instance, with questions in it that simply go unanswered. I don't have a problem with people discussing FlightGear or JSBSim or whatever in a forum in Avsim, for instance, but it should be stated and understood that if the question cannot be answered there, then the official mailing list should be turned to. I'd just hate to see people pick and choose one venue over the other, and pretty soon one Subject Matter Expert disappears from view from those who have chosen the other venue. I'd hate to see the mailing lists watered down, diluted. Jon - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Forums integration thought
Jon S. Berndt wrote: On 11/29/06, *Jon S. Berndt* wrote: If the community is split into two different camps, communication is going to suffer, plain and simple. I can receive email wherever I am and reply or not. I can set up filters and rules in my email program to sort the email posts. If the mails to the FlightGear-devel lists are archived in a forum, that's fine. If posts to a forum are likewise echoed to the -devel list, that's fine. In other words, if there are two ways to view a single communication venue, that's fine. But if there are two completely independent venues to discuss issues (say, the Users list), that would be very, very bad. It really defeats the purpose of having any kind of discussion group/list/forum at all. All good points, but consider that we aren't really starting anything new here. There are FlightGear forums that exist already (i.e. Avsim) where useful discussion occurs and where people actually expect to post questions or comments and get help and feedback. So the forum thing is already in play ... Curt. True, the forum thing is already in play, and communication is likewise already suffering because of it. I know this from experience. I'll be doing a Google search and find a reference to JSBSim, for instance, with questions in it that simply go unanswered. I don't have a problem with people discussing FlightGear or JSBSim or whatever in a forum in Avsim, for instance, but it should be stated and understood that if the question cannot be answered there, then the official mailing list should be turned to. I'd just hate to see people pick and choose one venue over the other, and pretty soon one Subject Matter Expert disappears from view from those who have chosen the other venue. I'd hate to see the mailing lists watered down, diluted. Jon I like the forum because, being web-based, I can keep an eye on it at work and (occasionally if workload permits) answer questions that I would normally have to wait until I got home. I like the mailing lists because the full post is emailed to me and I can apply rules that sort the FG-User and FG-Devel posts in to their respective folders. I like the mailing lists because to monitor the mailing lists I need only one application open, the email client (Thunderbird for me), whereas with forums I need a browser open too. I agree that having split formats is not desirable. I like the idea of different forums as I can track the ones that are high priority to me (ones that I can actively participate in because of limitations in ability) but when I check those forums I can also keep an eye on other forums that might not be of immediate interest but contain issues of interest (mush the same way as Curt's CVS emails give me an overview of what's going on in CVS. in conclusion --- at the moment I don't know --- lets keep the forum going for a while longer and see if the 16 registered users grows. I notice the Devel forum has been locked, presumably because the overwhelming negative response from prominent developers... can't think of a benefit directly but that seems like a neat feature and there is my $NZ0.03 (= $US0.02) worth. Cheers Dene NZWN - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Forums integration thought
On Thursday 30 November 2006 06:20, Jon S. Berndt wrote: Curt wrote: I just realize I have said absolutely nothing. :-) I think I'm going to let them run just a bit longer and then maybe we can an idea if enough people think they are useful and are using them. If the community is split into two different camps, communication is going to suffer, plain and simple. I can receive email wherever I am and reply or not. I can set up filters and rules in my email program to sort the email posts. If the mails to the FlightGear-devel lists are archived in a forum, that's fine. If posts to a forum are likewise echoed to the -devel list, that's fine. In other words, if there are two ways to view a single communication venue, that's fine. But if there are two completely independent venues to discuss issues (say, the Users list), that would be very, very bad. It really defeats the purpose of having any kind of discussion group/list/forum at all. Yep a mail gateway to such forums would do the trick. To be honest, I do not see an advantage of inventing and driving such a gateway in favour of using a mailing list that is already set up. Greetings Mathias - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
