Re: [Flightgear-devel] gpl scenery
Hi Syd Am 26.02.12 02:43, schrieb syd adams: My source of info is here. http://www.navcanada.ca/NavCanada.asp?Language=enContent=ContentDefinitionFiles%5CPublications%5CAeronauticalInfoProducts%5CCanadianAirportCharts%5Cdefault.xml http://www.navcanada.ca/NavCanada.asp?Language=ENContent=ContentDefinitionFiles\Publications\AeronauticalInfoProducts\Notices\default.xml http://geogratis.cgdi.gc.ca/geogratis/en/service/toporama.html. All this stuff is free to look at , but for me this is a grey area , and I preferred not to submit questionable material. This one might be really no problem: GEOGRATIS LICENCE AGREEMENT FOR UNRESTRICTED USE OF DIGITAL DATA [...] Subject to this Agreement, Canada hereby grants to the Licensee a non-exclusive, fully paid, royalty-free right and licence to exercise all Intellectual Property Rights in the Data. This includes the right to use, incorporate, sublicense (with further right of sublicensing), modify, improve, further develop, and distribute the Data; and to manufacture and / or distribute Derivative Products. [...] Use of the Data shall not be construed as an endorsement by Canada of any Derivative Products. The Licensee shall identify the source of the Data, in the following manner, where any of the Data are redistributed, or contained within Derivative Products: © Department of Natural Resources Canada. All rights reserved. Cheers, Yves -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] gpl scenery
Am 26.02.12 01:41, schrieb Stefan Gofferje: I am fairly certain, that in the creation of the current apt.dat, some official material was used as reference. Indeed, the official material was the public DAFIF database, unfortunately not available anymore. Cheers, Yves -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] gpl scenery
Hi, First of all: I am not a lawyer, but nevertheless I did counsel a patent lawyer in the past about GPL and its implications. As Yves already wrote: The WMS data seems not to be a problem. IMHO we may have a problem with the Navcanada data, since it contains the Notice All rights reserved (Emphasis by me on _All_). Since we are using a derivative work, this is subject to a license conflict. Clause 7 of the GPL than applies: we are not allowed to distribute these data. Greetings Olaf Flebbe Am 26.02.2012 um 02:43 schrieb syd adams: My source of info is here. http://www.navcanada.ca/NavCanada.asp?Language=enContent=ContentDefinitionFiles%5CPublications%5CAeronauticalInfoProducts%5CCanadianAirportCharts%5Cdefault.xml I also own the Canadian Flight Supplimental book purchased during flight training, which contains all the charts plus extras. The site states that these charts may be reproduced for the sole purpose of assisting pilots during aircraft ground movement operations.I'm not reproducing them , Im looking at them for more accurate measurments. I agree with Vivian , if this is non-compliant then every aircraft needs to be removed. This was my wms source , http://geogratis.cgdi.gc.ca/geogratis/en/service/toporama.html. All this stuff is free to look at , but for me this is a grey area , and I preferred not to submit questionable material. Just thought someone would have a better idea on the subject than i do. Cheers -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] gpl scenery
Thanks for the input , they reflect my own feeling ... I'm more comfortable using the WMS data. I did contact NAV CANADA long go about using the aerodrome charts.The response seemed to be that they would happy to discuss licencing fees , but i think i was misunderstood . That ended the subject for me Cheers -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] gpl scenery
This discussion about scenery reminded me of a few things , one of them is me not understanding what Martin is working towards...I probably should pay closer attention .Sorry Martin. I've been very interested in seeing an improvement in scenery , but i think covering it up with shaders is the wrong way to go , that's why we have a texture database/landclasses/etc .Not meaning to discredit anyone's work , i just think it's unnecessary and just one more step in slowing FG down. One reason i gave up , (i havent seen a default canadian airport with correct taxiways yet), is that I dont know what the FG community considers GPL compliant. I use Aerodrome charts for reference , and then modify the existing scenery tiles by the measurements written on those charts. Ive used Qgis with shapefiles from a canadian wms server as a background image to tweak the shapefiles from http://mapserver.flightgear.org/ .I assumed these were non-gpl work habits so never bothered offering to submit them. I guess my question is what method is acceptable ? To my way of thinking these methods are no different than modelling an aircraft by studying many images of that aircraft Just looking for more clarification about how a scenery developer SHOULD proceed. My lofty goal once upon a time was to fix all the canadian airports , but it seemed that we are still continuing to use Robin's apt.dat file rather than a custom FG file , and its a LOT of work to get good results. Im guessing there's a lot of well done custom scenery out there , but I wont install it if its in some obscure 'hangar'. If my assumptions are incorrect , my apologies , just shows how out of touch i am with Scenery development :) Cheers -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] gpl scenery
Hi Syd Am 25.02.12 17:04, schrieb syd adams: I use Aerodrome charts for reference , and then modify the existing scenery tiles by the measurements written on those charts. Ive used Qgis with shapefiles from a canadian wms server as a background image to tweak the shapefiles from http://mapserver.flightgear.org/ .I assumed these were non-gpl work habits so never bothered offering to submit them. When you’re referencing NAV CANADA charts here, I fear this charts and your work can’t be published under GPL terms, because you don’t get this charts for free and commercial use is prohibited explicitly. Cheers, Yves -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] gpl scenery
Can we all get a grip on this.. I dont mind spearheading for the want of the word.. a new research project.. The intention is to ascertain.. On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 7:49 PM, HB-GRAL flightg...@sablonier.ch wrote: Hi Syd Am 25.02.12 17:04, schrieb syd adams: I use Aerodrome charts for reference , and then modify the existing scenery tiles by the measurements written on those charts. Ive used Qgis with shapefiles from a canadian wms server as a background image to tweak the shapefiles from http://mapserver.flightgear.org/ .I assumed these were non-gpl work habits so never bothered offering to submit them. When you’re referencing NAV CANADA charts here, I fear this charts and your work can’t be published under GPL terms, because you don’t get this charts for free and commercial use is prohibited explicitly. Cheers, Yves -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] gpl scenery
HB-GRAL wrote -Original Message- From: [mailto:flightg...@sablonier.ch] Sent: 25 February 2012 19:49 To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] gpl scenery Hi Syd Am 25.02.12 17:04, schrieb syd adams: I use Aerodrome charts for reference , and then modify the existing scenery tiles by the measurements written on those charts. Ive used Qgis with shapefiles from a canadian wms server as a background image to tweak the shapefiles from http://mapserver.flightgear.org/ .I assumed these were non-gpl work habits so never bothered offering to submit them. When you're referencing NAV CANADA charts here, I fear this charts and your work can't be published under GPL terms, because you don't get this charts for free and commercial use is prohibited explicitly. I think you are over-doing this one. If the charts are just used as a reference or source, and not republished in some way, then the 3d model produced is analogous to the 3d model of an aircraft produced with reference to 3 view drawings. Syd is only using them to check the positions of parts of his work. Syd's finished work is original, the copyright is owned by him, and can have any licence he cares to give it IMO. BTW - if I am wrong - then almost all the work on all our 3d models cannot be GPL. Vivian -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] gpl scenery
Am 26.02.12 00:30, schrieb Vivian Meazza: HB-GRAL wrote -Original Message- From: [mailto:flightg...@sablonier.ch] Sent: 25 February 2012 19:49 To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] gpl scenery Hi Syd Am 25.02.12 17:04, schrieb syd adams: I use Aerodrome charts for reference , and then modify the existing scenery tiles by the measurements written on those charts. Ive used Qgis with shapefiles from a canadian wms server as a background image to tweak the shapefiles from http://mapserver.flightgear.org/ .I assumed these were non-gpl work habits so never bothered offering to submit them. When you're referencing NAV CANADA charts here, I fear this charts and your work can't be published under GPL terms, because you don't get this charts for free and commercial use is prohibited explicitly. I think you are over-doing this one. If the charts are just used as a reference or source, and not republished in some way, then the 3d model produced is analogous to the 3d model of an aircraft produced with reference to 3 view drawings. Syd is only using them to check the positions of parts of his work. Syd's finished work is original, the copyright is owned by him, and can have any licence he cares to give it IMO. BTW - if I am wrong - then almost all the work on all our 3d models cannot be GPL. Vivian Hi Vivian No, I am not over-doing this one I think. The charts are republished this way, and charts could not be transformed to a GPL source by a personal-referencing-and-copyright-project by Syd. I am referencing the copyright and restriction of NAV CANADA (in case!), and his statement about using (unknown) wms sources for scenery projects ... Cheers, Yves -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] gpl scenery
On 02/26/2012 02:21 AM, HB-GRAL wrote: No, I am not over-doing this one I think. The charts are republished this way, and charts could not be transformed to a GPL source by a personal-referencing-and-copyright-project by Syd. I am referencing the copyright and restriction of NAV CANADA (in case!), and his statement about using (unknown) wms sources for scenery projects ... This seems to be pretty tough lawyer stuff, so I think, unless one here is a lawyer with focus on copyright law, we won't get a solution, no matter how much we discuss. I would like to suggest that somebody from the FG core (scenery) team contacts the Free Software Foundation. They have specialized lawyers and they do exactly this (among other stuff) - provide legal advice to Open Source projects. My suggestion would be, that somebody from the core (scenery) project requests advice from the FSF and following that, a precise guide or code of conduct for scenery developer will be written. That should remove anything that's unclear and give a good deal of safety and security for (would-be) scenery designers as well as for the project itself. E.g. I'm using official airport charts of the Finnish Aviation Authority (public domain) and aerial images of the National Land Survey Authority as referencing material for my EFTP project and to my understanding and according to information I received from the National Land Survey by phone, only the redistribution of the material itself would be a problem but not of anything I produce while only using the material as a reference. However, as written elsewhere, this might very well differ from country to country. If you think practically, this also makes some kind of sense, because I doubt heavily that the current apt.dat was created by volunteers, walking through every airport and measuring all data themselves. I am fairly certain, that in the creation of the current apt.dat, some official material was used as reference. Tervehdys Suomesta / greetings from Finland, Stefan -- Stefan Gofferje | Web: http://stefan.gofferje.net/ (sgofferj/OH-SW) | Projects: http://www.saakeskus.fi/ | Com1: IAX2/k-tanco.louhen-sudet.fi/stefan FG OSBS, Opensuse 12.1, GeForce GTX560, Phenom X4 3200, 8GB RAM -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] gpl scenery
My source of info is here. http://www.navcanada.ca/NavCanada.asp?Language=enContent=ContentDefinitionFiles%5CPublications%5CAeronauticalInfoProducts%5CCanadianAirportCharts%5Cdefault.xml I also own the Canadian Flight Supplimental book purchased during flight training, which contains all the charts plus extras. The site states that these charts may be reproduced for the sole purpose of assisting pilots during aircraft ground movement operations.I'm not reproducing them , Im looking at them for more accurate measurments. I agree with Vivian , if this is non-compliant then every aircraft needs to be removed. This was my wms source , http://geogratis.cgdi.gc.ca/geogratis/en/service/toporama.html. All this stuff is free to look at , but for me this is a grey area , and I preferred not to submit questionable material. Just thought someone would have a better idea on the subject than i do. Cheers -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
