Re: [Flightgear-devel] Radar Coverage and Text Display
Geoff On Tue, 2008-10-07 at 21:28 +0200, As a very concerned military simulationist (is there such a word?) I am deeply worried about military radars, indeed the whole radar thing. Every radar has it's own unique qualities - PRR, PRF, discrimination, anti-clutter, etc. From a simulation point of view radar range and target size are extremely important. An AWG-9 is not like an APS-124 nor like a SPS-10 or SPS-40, much less a Headnet C. So what I am getting at is a radar system is not inherent to a platform - but only to itself. And it's ability to find a target is unique. So, please do not lump radars into a all-in-one category. Actually - there are at least three categories: Fire control: SPG-53/AWG-9, etc. Usually they are very narrow beam, high power and provide continuous tracking Track While Scan (TWS): Medium power. Provide targeting and search. Targeting is availble by their high rotation rate (usually one second or less). (SPS-55) Search Radars: Medium Power, slow rotation rate, very long range. In aircraft typically 60 degree coverage - ships usually 360 degree. Range is usually quite long but depends on PRR and PRF. And a fourth might be the new generation of phased array - though granted they are not yet on aircraft (that I know of). Note PRR = Pulse Repetition Rate PRF= Pulse Repetition Frequency Quite frankly, I would like to see radars put into a table so they can be easily modified in/when their data become available. Janes usually offers quite accurate and unclassified data for radar systems. Best wishes for continuing development! I've done some work on this already. I've added a Terrain Warning mode and an Air to Ground mode to the weather radar. These are modelled on the Blue Parrot radar fitted to the Buccaneer, but all the major parameters are configurable in xml. I also extended it to provide a Radar Altimeter. Hidden away in it all is a simplified version of the radar equation. The most significant simplification is that radar waves travel in a straight line. The work has stopped for now. It uses some OSG code which is very heavy in terms of frame rate, and tends to make fg stagger a bit. In addition there isn't enough ground loaded into fg to make the longer ranges meaningful. Further, random objects, such as ships, and bridges etc. are not detectable (which is what I was trying to do in the first place). That said, Terrain Warning is up and running, and can be seen in the Buccaneer in CVS right now. Vivian - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Radar Coverage and Text Display
On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 01:46 +0200, Alexis Bory - xiii wrote: Good news, I'm quite lost in the radar technical world. Hi Alexis - and everyone else who responded. It does not look to me like you are lost in the radar world. The input sent to me seems well thought out. I am glad to see that the Microsoft radars are irrelevant philosophy is not in FG. Having the radars and then having the radars in platforms is what I am most concerned with. Having it built in means less work for what I want to do with my sim which is controlling the interaction between platforms - something that FG per se- should not be doing - as it is more of a server function than an individual flight simulator function. Actually we work on a very basic level, but the aim is having a radar behavior being as near from reality as possible, I mean from a pilot's point of view. Yes, I would agree. This table exists, it is yet based by aircraft type but already includes radar name, range, and other data (originaly by Glazmax/Jettoo and updated by me). Radar types are not yet in the table but could be added easily. The idea of indexing the table upon radar name is also feasible and seems to be a very good idea :-) Yes, I see the table and I will go through it in more detail to see what is there. One of the next application would be the RWR tone which on some systems change with the frequency of the scan or goes continuous when having a steady lock. Yes, the RWR tone is very important - as in the case of attack aircraft they don't have the sophisticated receivers and displays that ships or - for example the AWACS aircraft have. The RWR tells the pilot vital information about fire control radars locking on. In recent writings it has been proposed within the simulation world to give any radar 100% detection ability out to it's maximum range. The only conflict comes into play when the radar is looking down on ground and sea clutter, where reflective returns used to show up on radar scopes. Today's processors are pretty efficient at reducing such clutter. In my own sim, I have not yet removed the probability of detection, though I probably (pun intended) will soon. Vivian Meazza wrote: Hidden away in it all is a simplified version of the radar equation. The most significant simplification is that radar waves travel in a straight line. In my world they do too. The amount of bending is very minimal given the relatively short ranges of these radars. Weather (ie cloud and atmospherics) can cause RF energy to bounce and skip sometimes great distances. But for simulation purposes I ignore these as well. In addition there isn't enough ground loaded into fg to make the longer ranges meaningful. Further, random objects, such as ships, and bridges etc. are not detectable (which is what I was trying to do in the first place). That would supposition that every object had a radar cross section/reflectivity assigned to it. Actually, that might not be hard to implement - but it would add another data field to objects. Thanks folks! -- Geoff McLean McLean Research Associates To be good is not enough when you dream of being great. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Radar Coverage and Text Display
On mardi 07 octobre 2008, Alexis Bory - xiii wrote: Manfred Janßen wrote: 1. I try to add some radar coverage cone to the A-10. But at the moment I have no idea, how to start that. Any hints? Hi Manfred, What do you mean by radar coverage ? The A-10 do not have a radar, or may be you are talking about Radar Warning Receiver ? There is no point on adding a radar to the A-10, it would be like adding turbofan to the c172p... The A-10 as a cannon in place of the radar :-) If you want to have a better view on how works the radar in Flightgear, you can have a look at AIBase.cxx, which is the starting point of every computation, then there are two systems: wxradar.cxx and radar2.nas. There is also a per aircraft database, radardist.xml and radardist.nas giving radar performances when the aircraft has a radar and also reflection performances for most of the GA aircrafts, this database is called by radar2.nas but could used by any other system. There is also a current developement for a generic RWR instrument (suitable for A-10, F-16, OV-10, A-6E...) giving a display of azimut, strength and type of radar threats. This use radar2.nas and the database. the RWR should be commited in a few days. Greetings, Alexis Which could be, (more or less) usefull to F-8E in order to replace the 3D specific one which was developed with the Aircraft in the old time, it was limited to 6 'bandit' id (2 AI and 4 MP) -- Gérard http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/ J'ai décidé d'être heureux parce que c'est bon pour la santé. Voltaire - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Radar Coverage and Text Display
Manfred Janßen wrote: 1. I try to add some radar coverage cone to the A-10. But at the moment I have no idea, how to start that. Any hints? Hi Manfred, What do you mean by radar coverage ? The A-10 do not have a radar, or may be you are talking about Radar Warning Receiver ? There is no point on adding a radar to the A-10, it would be like adding turbofan to the c172p... The A-10 as a cannon in place of the radar :-) If you want to have a better view on how works the radar in Flightgear, you can have a look at AIBase.cxx, which is the starting point of every computation, then there are two systems: wxradar.cxx and radar2.nas. There is also a per aircraft database, radardist.xml and radardist.nas giving radar performances when the aircraft has a radar and also reflection performances for most of the GA aircrafts, this database is called by radar2.nas but could used by any other system. There is also a current developement for a generic RWR instrument (suitable for A-10, F-16, OV-10, A-6E...) giving a display of azimut, strength and type of radar threats. This use radar2.nas and the database. the RWR should be commited in a few days. Greetings, Alexis - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Radar Coverage and Text Display
Hi Alexis, it's not bounded to the A-10. The only think I wanna show is the coverage of the radar of the aircraft, let me show you a simple drawing: Thats what I wanna do, just simply show some cone like a radar-lobe. Sorry for my explanation, but english is not my native language. The text you see at the pic is that what my second question meant, it works not in my DLL ( I use FG as a DLL in an other program to display real flight data). Kind Regards Manfred Alexis Bory - xiii schrieb: Manfred Janßen wrote: 1. I try to add some radar coverage cone to the A-10. But at the moment I have no idea, how to start that. Any hints? Hi Manfred, What do you mean by radar coverage ? The A-10 do not have a radar, or may be you are talking about Radar Warning Receiver ? There is no point on adding a radar to the A-10, it would be like adding turbofan to the c172p... The A-10 as a cannon in place of the radar :-) If you want to have a better view on how works the radar in Flightgear, you can have a look at AIBase.cxx, which is the starting point of every computation, then there are two systems: wxradar.cxx and radar2.nas. There is also a per aircraft database, radardist.xml and radardist.nas giving radar performances when the aircraft has a radar and also reflection performances for most of the GA aircrafts, this database is called by radar2.nas but could used by any other system. There is also a current developement for a generic RWR instrument (suitable for A-10, F-16, OV-10, A-6E...) giving a display of azimut, strength and type of radar threats. This use radar2.nas and the database. the RWR should be commited in a few days. Greetings, Alexis - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- - Manfred Janßen Eckfehler Leegstücken 11a 26605 Aurich Fon: +49 49 41 60 19 360 Fax: +49 49 41 99 19 221 My status skype:mjanssen%2Ede?call Get Skype http://www.skype.com/go/download and call me for free. -- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Radar and Text Display
Wow. I didn't know that radar was implemented in Flightgear. I would like to add it to all the Fighter Jets. Are there any instructions? -Ummon Hi there, I have actually two questions. 1. I try to add some radar coverage cone to the A-10. But at the moment I have no idea, how to start that. Any hints? 2. Can anybody tell me, where Anders changed the codee to display the property data on the screen? I only need some 'inspiration' ;-) to change it for the way I need that ;-) Kind Regards Manfred -- - Manfred Jan?en My status skype:mjanssen%2Ede?call Get Skype http://www.skype.com/go/download and call me for free. -- - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Radar Coverage and Text Display
On 7 Oct 2008, at 07:49, Manfred Janßen wrote: I try to add some radar coverage cone to the A-10. But at the moment I have no idea, how to start that. Any hints? It's not relevant now, but once I get my NAV display operating correctly, it'll be fairly simple to make it work as a radar display - I already need that to support a TCAS overlay. I will probably review the wx-radar code at that point as well, since all these things are effectively layers of data that make up the complete display in a modern system, but can be displayed stand-alone in an older cockpit. However, this is definitely a medium-term thing, so if you want something soon, the solutions proposed by other people are better. James - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Radar and Text Display
Ummon Karpe wrote: Wow. I didn't know that radar was implemented in Flightgear. I would like to add it to all the Fighter Jets. Are there any instructions? Hi Ummon, Not yet but I'm working on instruction for radar2.nas. Note there is two main systems now, radar2.nas may look nicer at the first glance but need huge animations files and rely on Nasal and has a tendency to add some mess in the ai/model/ tree. I'm the author. You can see the result in the f-14b. wxradar is writen in C++ and looks code wise cleaner. You can see it running on the harrier or the lightning and many other aircrafts. Vivian would better speak on this one than I can. Don't go to fast in implementing those systems as they may change and progress a lot in the near future. Just look at both of them, do tests, report... Good luck, Alexis - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Radar Coverage and Text Display
Manfred Janßen wrote: Hi Alexis, it's not bounded to the A-10. The only think I wanna show is the coverage of the radar of the aircraft, let me show you a simple drawing: Ok with the image that you sent me off list I understand. You can add a visible shape in place of what could be the radar vision cone like any other model. You first need a scaled cone (you may use a smaller one and scale it at run time*) this cone could be semi transparent. This has to be done in blender or any modeling sofware and exported as .ac I use AC3D (which is not free). Then include your model inside the main aircraft model like we do usually for 3d instruments. Have a look at $DATA/Aircraft/A-10/Models/A-10-model.xml you will find lot of instruments, your cone will be done the same way. You can have more help on IRC irc.flightgear.org #flightgear Greetings Alexis * this is another story but I'm sure you can :-) - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Radar Coverage and Text Display
On Tue, 2008-10-07 at 21:28 +0200, As a very concerned military simulationist (is there such a word?) I am deeply worried about military radars, indeed the whole radar thing. Every radar has it's own unique qualities - PRR, PRF, discrimination, anti-clutter, etc. From a simulation point of view radar range and target size are extremely important. An AWG-9 is not like an APS-124 nor like a SPS-10 or SPS-40, much less a Headnet C. So what I am getting at is a radar system is not inherent to a platform - but only to itself. And it's ability to find a target is unique. So, please do not lump radars into a all-in-one category. Actually - there are at least three categories: Fire control: SPG-53/AWG-9, etc. Usually they are very narrow beam, high power and provide continuous tracking Track While Scan (TWS): Medium power. Provide targeting and search. Targeting is availble by their high rotation rate (usually one second or less). (SPS-55) Search Radars: Medium Power, slow rotation rate, very long range. In aircraft typically 60 degree coverage - ships usually 360 degree. Range is usually quite long but depends on PRR and PRF. And a fourth might be the new generation of phased array - though granted they are not yet on aircraft (that I know of). Note PRR = Pulse Repetition Rate PRF= Pulse Repetition Frequency Quite frankly, I would like to see radars put into a table so they can be easily modified in/when their data become available. Janes usually offers quite accurate and unclassified data for radar systems. Best wishes for continuing development! -- Geoff McLean McLean Research Associates To be good is not enough when you dream of being great. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Radar Coverage and Text Display
Geoff wrote: On Tue, 2008-10-07 at 21:28 +0200, As a very concerned military simulationist (is there such a word?) I am deeply worried about military radars, indeed the whole radar thing. Hi Geoff Good news, I'm quite lost in the radar technical world. Every radar has it's own unique qualities - PRR, PRF, discrimination, anti-clutter, etc. From a simulation point of view radar range and target size are extremely important. An AWG-9 is not like an APS-124 nor like a SPS-10 or SPS-40, much less a Headnet C. So what I am getting at is a radar system is not inherent to a platform - but only to itself. And it's ability to find a target is unique. So, please do not lump radars into a all-in-one category. This is not what we want to do. Actually we work on a very basic level, but the aim is having a radar behavior being as near from reality as possible, I mean from a pilot's point of view. Quite frankly, I would like to see radars put into a table so they can be easily modified in/when their data become available. This table exists, it is yet based by aircraft type but already includes radar name, range, and other data (originaly by Glazmax/Jettoo and updated by me). Radar types are not yet in the table but could be added easily. The idea of indexing the table upon radar name is also feasible and seems to be a very good idea :-) One of the next application would be the RWR tone which on some systems change with the frequency of the scan or goes continuous when having a steady lock. Anyway you can have a look at the table (attached file). Be indulgent as we are not specialists. The table is already in CVS: $DATA/Aircraft/Instruments-3d/radardist/radardist.xml In our implementation algorithms are quite mostly guess... Your help would be appreciated. Best wishes for continuing development! Thanks. Alexis ?xml version=1.0? PropertyList !-- Radar Visibility Calculator Datas -- !-- Jettoo (glazmax) and xiii (Alexis Bory) -- !-- Aircraft name, RCS(m2), 4th root of RCS, radar type, max. radar range(km), max. radar range target seize(RCS)m2, 4th root of radar RCS -- instrumentation radar-performance data aircraft n=0 namegeneric/name rcs-sq-meter5/rcs-sq-meter rcs-4th-root1.49/rcs-4th-root radar-typenone/radar-type max-radar-rng-km0/max-radar-rng-km max-target-sq-meter0/max-target-sq-meter max-target-4th-root0/max-target-4th-root ecm-type-num00/ecm-type-num /aircraft aircraft n=1 name707/name rcs-sq-meter80/rcs-sq-meter rcs-4th-root2.34/rcs-4th-root radar-typenone/radar-type max-radar-rng-km0/max-radar-rng-km max-target-sq-meter0/max-target-sq-meter max-target-4th-root0/max-target-4th-root!-- guess -- ecm-type-num00/ecm-type-num /aircraft aircraft n=2 name737-300/name rcs-sq-meter50/rcs-sq-meter rcs-4th-root2.11/rcs-4th-root radar-typenone/radar-type max-radar-rng-km0/max-radar-rng-km max-target-sq-meter0/max-target-sq-meter max-target-4th-root0/max-target-4th-root!-- guess -- ecm-type-num00/ecm-type-num /aircraft aircraft n=3 name747/name rcs-sq-meter100/rcs-sq-meter rcs-4th-root2.34/rcs-4th-root radar-typenone/radar-type max-radar-rng-km0/max-radar-rng-km max-target-sq-meter0/max-target-sq-meter max-target-4th-root0/max-target-4th-root!-- guess -- ecm-type-num00/ecm-type-num /aircraft aircraft n=4 name n=0787/name name n=1777/name rcs-sq-meter35/rcs-sq-meter rcs-4th-root1.86/rcs-4th-root radar-typeWXR-2100/radar-type max-radar-rng-km160/max-radar-rng-km max-target-sq-meter100/max-target-sq-meter max-target-4th-root3.16/max-target-4th-root!-- guess -- ecm-type-num00/ecm-type-num /aircraft aircraft n=5 nameA24-Viking/name rcs-sq-meter2/rcs-sq-meter rcs-4th-root1.19/rcs-4th-root radar-typenone/radar-type max-radar-rng-km0/max-radar-rng-km max-target-sq-meter0/max-target-sq-meter max-target-4th-root0/max-target-4th-root!-- guess -- ecm-type-num00/ecm-type-num /aircraft aircraft n=6 nameA-10/name rcs-sq-meter25/rcs-sq-meter rcs-4th-root2.23/rcs-4th-root radar-typenone/radar-type max-radar-rng-km0/max-radar-rng-km max-target-sq-meter0/max-target-sq-meter max-target-4th-root0/max-target-4th-root ecm-type-num00/ecm-type-num /aircraft aircraft n=7 nameA300/name rcs-sq-meter80/rcs-sq-meter rcs-4th-root2.23/rcs-4th-root radar-typenone/radar-type max-radar-rng-km0/max-radar-rng-km max-target-sq-meter0/max-target-sq-meter max-target-4th-root0/max-target-4th-root!-- guess -- ecm-type-num00/ecm-type-num /aircraft aircraft n=8 nameA320/name rcs-sq-meter50/rcs-sq-meter rcs-4th-root1.96/rcs-4th-root radar-typenone/radar-type max-radar-rng-km0/max-radar-rng-km
Re: [Flightgear-devel] radar x-shift and y-shift patch
On Fri 1 June 2007 06:11, syd sandy wrote: On Thu, 31 May 2007 21:06:20 -0700 syd sandy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry forgot to change subject line the first time ... Hi all, Ive attached patches that normalize radar x-shift and y-shift to /instrumentation/radar/range, which makes animation much simpler , one just needs to scale these values by the radar screen radius... If everyone is in agreement to this change, and commit it , let me know if anyone else is currently using the x-shift and y-shift in animations , and I'll be happy to fix them . I'm still looking, in case I have more work ahead :)... Cheers, Syd Hello, Syd Is not it any , update/improvement from Vivian, in preparation ? Regards -- Gérard - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] radar x-shift and y-shift patch
On Fri, 1 Jun 2007 14:05:57 +0200 gh.robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri 1 June 2007 06:11, syd sandy wrote: On Thu, 31 May 2007 21:06:20 -0700 syd sandy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry forgot to change subject line the first time ... Hi all, Ive attached patches that normalize radar x-shift and y-shift to /instrumentation/radar/range, which makes animation much simpler , one just needs to scale these values by the radar screen radius... If everyone is in agreement to this change, and commit it , let me know if anyone else is currently using the x-shift and y-shift in animations , and I'll be happy to fix them . I'm still looking, in case I have more work ahead :)... Cheers, Syd Hello, Syd Is not it any , update/improvement from Vivian, in preparation ? Regards -- Gérard Sorry , I don't understand the question ... Vivian, have you already done/doing something similar ? All my change does is normalize the x and y-shift to 1 at the radar range limit , regardless of what that might be... syd sandy [EMAIL PROTECTED] - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Radar improvement
On Fri 11 May 2007 19:13, Vivian Meazza wrote: Actually, the problem doesn't lie within the code affected by this improvement - the offending file is Instrumentation/od_gauge.cxx, and AFAIKS see the problem is in osg, not in our code. When that is fixed, the radar, improved or otherwise will work fine. Vivian Vivian, That is nice, your explanation means that your improvement can be submitted. Now we are confident that Martin or Melchior will give the green light. And so everybody could get profit of that Radar improvement. Regards -- Gérard - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Radar improvement
* Vivian Meazza -- Thursday 10 May 2007: I discussed the improved radar with Melchior, he is very reluctant to include it because it is plib only. Yes, I said that I wouldn't like to commit plib-only features. It's ok to have new features in fg/osg that aren't backported to fg/plib, but the other way around is not acceptable. But if, as you say, the patch works in theory for both branches, and the only reason why it wouldn't work in fg/osg at the moment is, because one feature is currently not working there (but eventually will), then I see no problem. There's just one thing: Mathias should review the code and decide if it fits in the framework that he's envisioning. What we don't want is people moaning about a list of regressions in the first fg/osg release, or loading yet more work on Mathias, or dumping stuff into fg/osg that only gets in the way ATM. It's, of course, not ok to add some new, semi-broken feature and to expect Mathias or Tim to make it work in fg/osg. (We'll do that later all the time, but not now! :-) m. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Radar improvement
gh.robin wrote: Their is a radar improvement, which has been developed recently by Vivian. [...] That update has not been released into CVS. Any pointer ? Why don't you simply post a follow-up to his announcement, so people don't have to start searching, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Radar improvement
Martin gh.robin wrote: Their is a radar improvement, which has been developed recently by Vivian. [...] That update has not been released into CVS. Any pointer ? Why don't you simply post a follow-up to his announcement, so people don't have to start searching, Martin. -- I discussed the improved radar with Melchior, he is very reluctant to include it because it is plib only. The existing radar and the improved version are disabled in osg. FWIW the diffs are here: ftp://abbeytheatre2.org.uk/fgfs/instrumentation/ And there are some screenshots here: ftp://abbeytheatre2.org.uk/fgfs/Screen-shots/radar2.jpg ftp://abbeytheatre2.org.uk/fgfs/Screen-shots/radar1.jpg The improved radar is capable of displaying raw radar contacts and or data for any AI Object in the environment (ships, aircraft, ballistic objects etc.), the radar horizon is calculated, and the Radar Equation is applied to determine detection ranges. Some assumptions are made about RCS. The map mode has been implemented, and the plan and weather modes retained, although the latter needs further work before I'm totally happy with it. Father improvements could be made in the area of RCS - we really need to access the type of AI Aircraft to make appropriate adjustments in the RCS, and I would like to add a fluctuation of the RCS as well. ATM it models a simple pulse radar, but I can simulate other types such as Doppler as a future enhancement. And, sorry, no terrain, that in the too-difficult tray right now. Oh, and I forgot - it also displays TACAN data. I've delayed making any announcement while I've been looking at its implementation in osg, but I think that's a way off yet. It's fun anyway :-) Vivian - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Radar improvement
Vivian Meazza wrote: I discussed the improved radar with Melchior, he is very reluctant to include it because it is plib only. Well, personally I'd agree with him on that one, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Radar improvement
Martin Vivian Meazza wrote: I discussed the improved radar with Melchior, he is very reluctant to include it because it is plib only. Well, personally I'd agree with him on that one, Martin. Well, there you go then, you won't get it in the next release. And I will do no more work on it until such time as osg is fixed, and that doen't look like being any time soon. Vivian - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Radar improvement
Harald JOHNSEN wrote: Martin Spott wrote: Vivian Meazza wrote: I discussed the improved radar with Melchior, he is very reluctant to include it because it is plib only. Well, personally I'd agree with him on that one, The next fg version is a version based on plib and will be the official version for at least one year. Do you think that it's not worth to add new things that will be used for a so long period ? Yes - because I still have the hope that we manage to get a release out of the door earlier next time, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Radar improvement
Martin Spott Harald JOHNSEN wrote: Martin Spott wrote: Vivian Meazza wrote: I discussed the improved radar with Melchior, he is very reluctant to include it because it is plib only. Well, personally I'd agree with him on that one, The next fg version is a version based on plib and will be the official version for at least one year. Do you think that it's not worth to add new things that will be used for a so long period ? Yes - because I still have the hope that we manage to get a release out of the door earlier next time, That is illogical - if the next release is soonish, it is likely that osg will still not be fixed. So plib improvements are contingent on osg improvements. Oh, and the improved radar can be applied to osg, it's just disabled, as is the current one, so no change there. Vivian - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Radar improvement
Hi, Vivian Meazza schrieb am 11.05.2007 00:18: That is illogical - if the next release is soonish, it is likely that osg will still not be fixed. So plib improvements are contingent on osg improvements. Oh, and the improved radar can be applied to osg, it's just disabled, as is the current one, so no change there. Vivian I didn't get the point. What is the argument against commiting the improved radar? Maik - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] radar
* Csaba Halász -- Wednesday 04 April 2007: Next incarnation :) Committed, thanks. I've only tested with the T38 and Lightning. Radar on the former worked, and on the latter didn't. But maybe I just missed some important detail. :-) m. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] radar
On Wednesday 04 April 2007 10:54:27 Melchior FRANZ wrote: * Csaba Halász -- Wednesday 04 April 2007: Next incarnation :) Committed, thanks. I've only tested with the T38 and Lightning. Radar on the former worked, and on the latter didn't. But maybe I just missed some important detail. :-) I applied this patch, and then looked at the Lightning radar - I found the problem and fixed it! I am just awaiting AJ to get into IRC to pass by him to ensure it is OK. Nick - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] radar
Hi!
Next incarnation :)
This time I have added a valid property to make it explicit which
entries are, duh, valid :)
I have moved the destruction administration for AI objects into the
AIManager, I think that's where it belongs (since the construction is
also there, and nobody else should know or influence that). For this
purpose I had to make the property node available, either by storing
in the AIManager, or (and this is what I did) by exposing it in
AIBase.
When an AI object dies the new valid property will be set to false.
Also I have added code setting 3 properties to sensible defaults so
that current a/c have a chance of working without modifications.
Additionally, this patch removes a chunk of the previous version that
accidentally made it into CVS.
Greets,
Csaba
Index: AIBase.cxx
===
RCS file: /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/AIModel/AIBase.cxx,v
retrieving revision 1.74
diff -u -r1.74 AIBase.cxx
--- AIBase.cxx 1 Apr 2007 12:39:20 - 1.74
+++ AIBase.cxx 4 Apr 2007 01:29:06 -
@@ -85,13 +85,7 @@
if (parent) {
model_removed-setStringValue(props-getPath());
-parent-removeChild(props-getName(), props-getIndex(), false);
}
-
-// so that radar does not have to do extra checks
-props-setBoolValue(radar/in-range, false);
-props-removeChild(id, 0);
-
}
delete fp;
fp = 0;
@@ -507,6 +501,10 @@
return serviceable;
}
+SGPropertyNode* FGAIBase::_getProps() const {
+return props;
+}
+
void FGAIBase::_setAltitude( double _alt ) {
setAltitude( _alt );
}
Index: AIBase.hxx
===
RCS file: /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/AIModel/AIBase.hxx,v
retrieving revision 1.62
diff -u -r1.62 AIBase.hxx
--- AIBase.hxx 30 Mar 2007 22:51:52 - 1.62
+++ AIBase.hxx 4 Apr 2007 01:29:07 -
@@ -184,6 +184,7 @@
double _get_speed_north_fps() const;
bool _getServiceable() const;
+SGPropertyNode* _getProps() const;
const char* _getPath();
const char* _getCallsign();
Index: AIManager.cxx
===
RCS file: /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/AIModel/AIManager.cxx,v
retrieving revision 1.75
diff -u -r1.75 AIManager.cxx
--- AIManager.cxx 2 Apr 2007 12:47:26 - 1.75
+++ AIManager.cxx 4 Apr 2007 01:29:07 -
@@ -122,7 +122,17 @@
tmgr-release((*ai_list_itr)-getID());
--mNumAiModels;
--(mNumAiTypeModels[(*ai_list_itr)-getType()]);
- (*ai_list_itr)-unbind();
+ FGAIBase *base = *ai_list_itr;
+ SGPropertyNode *props = base-_getProps();
+
+ props-setBoolValue(valid, false);
+ base-unbind();
+
+ // HACK: try not to break too many things
+ props-setIntValue(id, -1);
+ props-setBoolValue(radar/in-range, false);
+ props-setIntValue(refuel/tanker, false);
+
ai_list_itr = ai_list.erase(ai_list_itr);
} else {
fetchUserState();
@@ -150,7 +160,7 @@
//more than 1 mp-aircrafts in the property tree we should optimize
the mp-server
{
p = root-getNode(typeString, i, false);
-if (!p) break;
+if (!p || !p-getBoolValue(valid, false)) break;
if (p-getIntValue(id,-1)==model-getID())
{
p-setStringValue(callsign,***invalid node***); //debug only,
should never set!
@@ -166,6 +176,7 @@
|| model-getType()==FGAIBase::otMultiplayer
|| model-getType()==FGAIBase::otStatic);
model-bind();
+ p-setBoolValue(valid, true);
}
-
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] radar
Dear Vivian, Ron and other interested parties ;)
Attached you will find the revised radar patch (still against the
original CVS copy)
Release notes:
1) SGPropertyNode::getIntValue(const char*, int) and company only
return the default value for not-existent nodes. For an existing node
of type SGPropertyNode::NONE they will happily return 0. This is why
the check that I used in the previous patch did not always work.
Rather than changing this behaviour (which could break who-knows-what)
I have just rewritten the check in my patch.
2) As to why the KC135 is different from the T38 (or rather the other
way around). Look in aar.nas and you will find that it iterates over
all models and checks the id node to see if it is valid. Unfortunately
this will create the missing id node with type none, leading to the
problem above. Also note that the various switches under
/instrumentation/radar (especially mode-control) must be set properly
in order to get anything displayed. Funnily enough, this does not
occur with the T38 because the aar code there is broken. There is
supposed to be a common aar.nas somewhere to replace it. But that's
another story.
3) I have changed the AIBase destructor to just delete the id rather
than the node. (I'd rather set the type to none but couldn't figure
out how to do that). This way existing bindings will not be lost and
the AIManager will re-use these nodes. As a convenience, I also set
the radar/in-range property to false, so that radar does not have to
do an extra check on the id.
4) As noted above, aar.nas already uses a check on the id as a means
to establish the validity of a model. Presumably it is done this way
in other places as well. So I have given up my plan to add a valid
property for this purpose.
5) The xml files are unchanged.
Comments and testing welcome.
Greets,
Csaba
Index: AIBase.cxx
===
RCS file: /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/AIModel/AIBase.cxx,v
retrieving revision 1.72
diff -u -b -w -r1.72 AIBase.cxx
--- AIBase.cxx 13 Jan 2007 09:04:07 - 1.72
+++ AIBase.cxx 27 Mar 2007 02:34:46 -
@@ -77,11 +77,10 @@
globals-get_scenery()-get_scene_graph()-removeChild(aip.getSceneGraph());
}
if (props) {
-SGPropertyNode* parent = props-getParent();
-if (parent) {
model_removed-setStringValue(props-getPath());
-parent-removeChild(props-getName(), props-getIndex(), false);
-}
+ // so that radar does not have to do extra checks
+ props-setBoolValue(radar/in-range, false);
+ props-removeChild(id, 0);
}
delete fp;
fp = 0;
Index: AIManager.cxx
===
RCS file: /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/AIModel/AIManager.cxx,v
retrieving revision 1.73
diff -u -b -w -r1.73 AIManager.cxx
--- AIManager.cxx 26 Feb 2007 11:47:05 - 1.73
+++ AIManager.cxx 27 Mar 2007 02:34:46 -
@@ -149,10 +149,11 @@
{
p = root-getNode(typeString, i, false);
if (!p) break;
-if (p-getIntValue(id,-1)==model-getID())
+const SGPropertyNode* id_node = p-getNode(id);
+if (!id_node || id_node-getType() == SGPropertyNode::NONE) break;
+if (id_node-getIntValue() == model-getID())
{
p-setStringValue(callsign,***invalid node***); //debug only,
should never set!
-
}
}
p = root-getNode(typeString, i, true);
-
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] radar
On Sun, 2007-03-25 at 02:14 +0100, Csaba Halász wrote: Hello people! Looks like radar has been broken since Revision 1.72 of AIManager.cxx some 4 months back. The radar supports a fixed number of aircraft, and the nodes for these are created at initialization. The aforementioned 1.72 revision however ignores these, and creates others. Attached simple patch (in radar.diff) should fix it, by considering any slot without an id unused. The number of allocated slots are somewhat limited but creating them dynamically does not seem to be an easy task. As a workaround I hacked together a little awk script that generates a configuration xml for any given number. (radar.awk and radar.in.xml). A pre-built radar.xml for 8 AI and 32 MP planes is included. XML is huge, but I have not run into any problems yet. YMMV. I also poked around a little more and added target selection and altitude display. (As I understand it, the altitude was only displayed for the first slot.) For this I modified 2 textures, radar_frame.rgb and radar_misc.rgb. In the latter I used some seemingly empty space for the target boxes. The target selection could be beefed up with a little nasal, so that only existing in-range targets are selected. Grab the tarball here: http://w3.enternet.hu/jester/fgfs/radar-20070325.tgz Hopefully I didn't break anything. Let me know what you think. Greets, Csaba (alias Jester) The radar works again! Thanks Jester! Ron - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
