Re: [Flightgear-users] instrument approaches in FG
--- Jon Elson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mike Rawlins wrote:
Upon further review, I seem to understand the NDB
approach, and the AP waypoint GUI accepts GPS
waypoints . Regarding these approaches, from what
I
can tell, it's all about the MDA and MAP!
A message on the developers group from Feb 2003
mentions a DME radio, but I can't seem to figure
out
where this is on the radio stack.
DME has it's own frequency, but it is normally
slaved to the
VOR receiver's channel. A VORTAC has a VOR
transmitter and a DME
transponder at the same location (also has a TACAN,
but that's
for military use only.) So, if you set the NAV
receiver for a
nearby VORTAC, the DME will automatically pick up
the
associated DME transponder. (It is possible for the
DME
to lock onto a more distant DME transponder on the
same channel,
but that is a rarity except at high altitude.)
In aircraft that have remote DME indicators, there
is no
DME radio. It is a hidden black box, slaved to
the NAV
channel, and readion distance on the remote
indicator dial.
On some older aircraft, there actually was a DME
box,
with the distance indicator, as well as some
controls and
a light that indicated it was receiving a response
from a
transponder.
Jon
Thanks Jon. But how does one access the DME in
Flightgear? I see that Oakland (KOAK) has a VORTAC,
frequency 116.80. I set NAV1 to 116.80 while on the
runway there, and don't think anything like a DME
engaged. KSFO has a VOR/DME on 155.80. Does one get
distance from this frequency?
A grep of KSFO on ${FG_HOME)/Navaids/nav.dat produced:
12 37.605194 -122.383167 24 10890 1.000
ISIA KSFO 19L DME
12 37.626092 -122.394317 22 10955 1.000
ISFO KSFO 28L DME
12 37.630178 -122.394608 17 11170 2.000
IGWQ KSFO 28R DME
I'm curious why 115.80 does not appear on these lines
with DME.
I've googled on 'flightgear' and 'DME'. To my
surprise, got few hits.
Mike
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Re: [Flightgear-users] instrument approaches in FG
On Thursday, 3 March 2005 17:52, Mike Rawlins wrote: Thanks Jon. But how does one access the DME in Flightgear? I see that Oakland (KOAK) has a VORTAC, frequency 116.80. I set NAV1 to 116.80 while on the runway there, and don't think anything like a DME engaged. KSFO has a VOR/DME on 155.80. Does one get distance from this frequency? Firstly what aircraft are you using? I suggest you use the default 172 which has a DME readout instrument right at the bottom of the radio stack. Not all the aicraft in FG have DME readout instruments. The DME readout instrument in the c172p looks similar to the KDI 572 : https://www3.bendixking.com/static/catalog/viewproductdetails.jsp?pid=280 Set NAV1 to 116.80 and then switch the DME intrument to N1 (NAV1) This will show you the distance to the DME equipment tuned on NAV1 as well as your ground speed towards it and the estimated time enroute. Of course it will only work for VORs/ILSs that are DME equiped. BTW : I did notice a minor bug/problem with the DME instrument - it didn't pick up the new frequency I tuned into NAV1 - I had to flip from N1 to HLD and back to N1 before it would display anything. Paul ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] instrument approaches in FG
--- Paul Surgeon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thursday, 3 March 2005 17:52, Mike Rawlins wrote: Thanks Jon. But how does one access the DME in Flightgear? I see that Oakland (KOAK) has a VORTAC, frequency 116.80. I set NAV1 to 116.80 while on the runway there, and don't think anything like a DME engaged. KSFO has a VOR/DME on 155.80. Does one get distance from this frequency? Firstly what aircraft are you using? I suggest you use the default 172 which has a DME readout instrument right at the bottom of the radio stack. Not all the aicraft in FG have DME readout instruments. OK, got it. I'd completely ignored that part of the radio stack. My bad. Right now I fly (in order of most to least frequent): Cessna 172 B737 j3cub Fokker 100 Fokker 50 Looks like the 737 DME is locked to NAV2??? Speaking of instrument approaches (using 737), I noticed that the AP sees GPS 5-letter waypoints, but the autopilot doesn't smoothly turn to the proper heading but, rather, oscillates across about 20 degrees of heading while slowly moving toward waypoint. Is this pilot error? I know the AP on the 172 works quite nicely Thanks, Mike __ Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/ ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] instrument approaches in FG
Mike Rawlins wrote:
Thanks Jon. But how does one access the DME in
Flightgear? I see that Oakland (KOAK) has a VORTAC,
frequency 116.80. I set NAV1 to 116.80 while on the
runway there, and don't think anything like a DME
engaged. KSFO has a VOR/DME on 155.80. Does one get
distance from this frequency?
(Oh, typo above, you mean 115.80, as you show below.)
The DME transmits on one of 126 channels between 1025 and 1150
MHz, and receives on a corresponding channel between 962-1024
MHz. Obviously, at these frequencies, this is totally line of sight,
so the DME generally does not work on the ground, unless the
VORTAC is RIGHT next to the runway. I don't know how smart
the DME code on FlightGear is, but I'm pretty sure they ARE implementing
some line of sight calculations, or the receiver in the plane would be
getting the software equivalent of all the DME transponders blabbering
at once.
A grep of KSFO on ${FG_HOME)/Navaids/nav.dat produced:
12 37.605194 -122.383167 24 10890 1.000
ISIA KSFO 19L DME
12 37.626092 -122.394317 22 10955 1.000
ISFO KSFO 28L DME
12 37.630178 -122.394608 17 11170 2.000
IGWQ KSFO 28R DME
I'm curious why 115.80 does not appear on these lines
with DME.
Who knows. Could be whoever coded the data base, or could be the FAA
has reasons to not want that particular VOR to be used for navigation
at KSFO. VORs are quite strange under conditions of reflections
and refraction, as well as interference from other transmitters. There
are some areas where particular VORs give VERY incorrect readings.
Due to the higher frequencies and pulsed transmission, the DME generally
is pretty reliable.
Jon
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Re: [Flightgear-users] instrument approaches in FG
Jon Elson wrote:
Mike Rawlins wrote:
Thanks Jon. But how does one access the DME in
Flightgear? I see that Oakland (KOAK) has a VORTAC,
frequency 116.80. I set NAV1 to 116.80 while on the
runway there, and don't think anything like a DME
engaged. KSFO has a VOR/DME on 155.80. Does one get
distance from this frequency?
(Oh, typo above, you mean 115.80, as you show below.)
The DME transmits on one of 126 channels between 1025 and 1150
MHz, and receives on a corresponding channel between 962-1024
MHz. Obviously, at these frequencies, this is totally line of sight,
so the DME generally does not work on the ground, unless the
VORTAC is RIGHT next to the runway. I don't know how smart
the DME code on FlightGear is, but I'm pretty sure they ARE implementing
some line of sight calculations, or the receiver in the plane would be
getting the software equivalent of all the DME transponders blabbering
at once.
A grep of KSFO on ${FG_HOME)/Navaids/nav.dat produced:
12 37.605194 -122.383167 24 10890 1.000
ISIA KSFO 19L DME
12 37.626092 -122.394317 22 10955 1.000
ISFO KSFO 28L DME
12 37.630178 -122.394608 17 11170 2.000
IGWQ KSFO 28R DME
I'm curious why 115.80 does not appear on these lines
with DME.
Who knows. Could be whoever coded the data base, or could be the FAA
has reasons to not want that particular VOR to be used for navigation
at KSFO. VORs are quite strange under conditions of reflections
and refraction, as well as interference from other transmitters. There
are some areas where particular VORs give VERY incorrect readings.
Due to the higher frequencies and pulsed transmission, the DME generally
is pretty reliable.
Jon
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Note that the 3 sites you got are DMEs associated with localizers on
specific runways, not VORs. Leaving off the K and search for the SFO
VOR may be closer to what you want.
--
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Computers, like air conditioners, work poorly with Windows open.
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[Flightgear-users] instrument approaches in FG
My query is mostly related to navigation, but since I'm using FG (not currently a reality pilot), I'll ask here. I'd like to practice instrument approaches in IMC. At this time situational awareness is pretty good using VORs, and I do a nice ILS approach/landing down to minimums (no high crosswinds!) flying the needles. Is it possible to do GPS or VOR/DME approaches in flightgear? For former I'm guessing no, although not sure since there is the lat/lon on heads-up display. How about VOR/DME? As I understand, these are done by intercepting a VOR radial, flying over the VOR, and then timing to calculate distance. Not sure how one decends glideslope in real flying situations. How does one approach/decend using NDB. The field near me (KDAW; Skyhaven; Rochester, NH) has a NDB approach: http://www.airnav.com/depart?http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0501/05978N33.PDF what happens in IMC after flying the to the NDB? I plan to read more about IMC flying soon, and just want to maximize learning potential. I'm considering flight school at this time :-) Mike __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] instrument approaches in FG
Upon further review, I seem to understand the NDB approach, and the AP waypoint GUI accepts GPS waypoints . Regarding these approaches, from what I can tell, it's all about the MDA and MAP! A message on the developers group from Feb 2003 mentions a DME radio, but I can't seem to figure out where this is on the radio stack. Mike --- Mike Rawlins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My query is mostly related to navigation, but since I'm using FG (not currently a reality pilot), I'll ask here. I'd like to practice instrument approaches in IMC. At this time situational awareness is pretty good using VORs, and I do a nice ILS approach/landing down to minimums (no high crosswinds!) flying the needles. Is it possible to do GPS or VOR/DME approaches in flightgear? For former I'm guessing no, although not sure since there is the lat/lon on heads-up display. How about VOR/DME? As I understand, these are done by intercepting a VOR radial, flying over the VOR, and then timing to calculate distance. Not sure how one decends glideslope in real flying situations. How does one approach/decend using NDB. The field near me (KDAW; Skyhaven; Rochester, NH) has a NDB approach: http://www.airnav.com/depart?http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0501/05978N33.PDF what happens in IMC after flying the to the NDB? I plan to read more about IMC flying soon, and just want to maximize learning potential. I'm considering flight school at this time :-) Mike __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d __ Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/ ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] instrument approaches in FG
Mike Rawlins wrote: Upon further review, I seem to understand the NDB approach, and the AP waypoint GUI accepts GPS waypoints . Regarding these approaches, from what I can tell, it's all about the MDA and MAP! A message on the developers group from Feb 2003 mentions a DME radio, but I can't seem to figure out where this is on the radio stack. DME has it's own frequency, but it is normally slaved to the VOR receiver's channel. A VORTAC has a VOR transmitter and a DME transponder at the same location (also has a TACAN, but that's for military use only.) So, if you set the NAV receiver for a nearby VORTAC, the DME will automatically pick up the associated DME transponder. (It is possible for the DME to lock onto a more distant DME transponder on the same channel, but that is a rarity except at high altitude.) In aircraft that have remote DME indicators, there is no DME radio. It is a hidden black box, slaved to the NAV channel, and readion distance on the remote indicator dial. On some older aircraft, there actually was a DME box, with the distance indicator, as well as some controls and a light that indicated it was receiving a response from a transponder. Jon ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
