Hi Thiago
To me, there is not nearly enough context to publish this outside this list. I
like arguments and complaints that are well supported. I don't like the all too
general practice on the web of mere opinions about any and all things.
One of the most interesting aspects to me about the
Hi Benoît
I don't know of an another attempt to build a whole system with wide properties
in DSLs. But it wouldn't surprise me if there were some others around. It
requires more design effort, and the tools to make languages need to be
effective and as easy as possible, but the payoffs are
On 25 July 2011 09:47, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote:
Hi Thiago
To me, there is not nearly enough context to publish this outside this list.
I like arguments and complaints that are well supported. I don't like the
all too general practice on the web of mere opinions about any and all
On 26/07/2011, at 12:03 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
In contrast, as you mentioned, TCP/IP protocol which is backbone of
today's internet having much better design.
But i think this is a general problem of software evolution. No matter
how hard you try, you cannot foresee all kinds of
On 2011-07-25, at 12:47 AM, Alan Kay wrote:
For example, some of our next version of Etoys for children could be done in
JS, but not all -- e.g. the Kedama massively parallel programmable particle
system made by Yoshiki cannot be implemented to run fast enough in JS. It
needs something
On 25 July 2011 16:16, Julian Leviston jul...@leviston.net wrote:
On 26/07/2011, at 12:03 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
Interestingly that many today's trendy and popular things (which we
know today as web) were invented as a temporary solution without any
systematic approach.
I think that i
On 25 July 2011 17:40, Yoshiki Ohshima yosh...@vpri.org wrote:
Well said, Igor!
At Mon, 25 Jul 2011 16:03:57 +0200,
Igor Stasenko wrote:
It is really a pity, that we have a systems which has no trust from users
side.
Following the logic, maybe making provably secure system is not
Why all those emerging technologies is just reproducing the same
which were available for desktop apps for years?
Doesn't it rings a bell that it is something fundamentally wrong with
this technology?
Which technology? The technical software one or the human
organization social one?
On 25 July 2011 18:29, Wesley Smith wesley.h...@gmail.com wrote:
Why all those emerging technologies is just reproducing the same
which were available for desktop apps for years?
Doesn't it rings a bell that it is something fundamentally wrong with
this technology?
Which technology? The
Dear Alan,
Dear List,
the following very recent announcement might be of interest to this
discussion:
http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.dev.platform/browse_thread/thread/7668a9d46a43e482
To quote Andreas et al.:
Mozilla believes that the web can displace proprietary,
Dear Alan,
Dear List,
the following very recent announcement might be of interest to this
discussion:
http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.dev.platform/browse_thread/thread/7668a9d46a43e482
To quote Andreas et al.:
Mozilla believes that the web can displace proprietary,
On 2011-07-25, at 9:25 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
But don't you see a problem:
it evolving from simple 'kiddie' scripting language into a full
fledged system.
First off, JS was done in a hurry, but by Brendan Eich who was hired by
Netscape because he had implemented languages before and knew
Hi Alan,
thanks for elaborating. I guess I had seen some of those criticisms before but
not connected them with actual design flaws.
While there is certainly room for criticism, it seems hard to dispute that the
WWW is a remarkably successful artifact, a vast and unprecedented global
On 25 July 2011 19:01, Dethe Elza de...@livingcode.org wrote:
On 2011-07-25, at 9:25 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
But don't you see a problem:
it evolving from simple 'kiddie' scripting language into a full
fledged system.
First off, JS was done in a hurry, but by Brendan Eich who was hired by
So, i think it is more a lack of vision, than technical/security issues.
There might not have been a technical vision in the www but there is I
think a political statement which is that the information must be
open. Papers like The Rule of Least Power [1] make it very clear.
This is, in my
On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote:
The main idea here is that a windowing 2.5 D UI can compose views from many
sources into a page. The sources can be opaque because they can even do
their own rendering if needed. Since the sources can run in protected
On 25.07.2011, at 19:13, Jakob Praher wrote:
Dear Alan,
Dear List,
the following very recent announcement might be of interest to this
discussion:
http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.dev.platform/browse_thread/thread/7668a9d46a43e482
To quote Andreas et al.:
Mozilla believes
On Monday 25 July 2011 11:03:57 Igor Stasenko wrote:
But i think this is a general problem of software evolution. No matter
how hard you try, you cannot foresee all kinds of interactions,
features and use cases for your system, when you designing it from the
beginning.
Because 20 years ago,
On 07/25/2011 09:35 PM, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
I did ask in that thread about exposing the CPU, a la NativeClient. (It's a
usenet group so you can post without subscribing, nice)
Short answer is that they don't see a need for it.
I somehow have mixed feelings about NaCL. I think that safe
On 7/25/2011 12:59 PM, David Barbour wrote:
On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Igor Stasenko siguc...@gmail.com
mailto:siguc...@gmail.com wrote:
how different our systems would be, if guys who started it 20
years back would think a bit about future?
The guys who spend their time
On 26/07/2011, at 1:33 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
On 25 July 2011 16:16, Julian Leviston jul...@leviston.net wrote:
On 26/07/2011, at 12:03 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
Interestingly that many today's trendy and popular things (which we
know today as web) were invented as a temporary solution
On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 3:20 PM, BGB cr88...@gmail.com wrote:
too bad there is no standardized bytecode or anything though, but then I
guess it would at this point be more like browser-integrated Flash or
something, as well as be potentially more subject to awkward versioning
issues, or the
On 26/07/2011, at 1:43 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
(quotes are broken)
On 25 July 2011 16:26, Julian Leviston jul...@leviston.net wrote:
On 26/07/2011, at 12:03 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
In contrast, as you mentioned, TCP/IP protocol which is backbone of
today's internet having much
I agree there are better ways to do things than NaCl, but Yoshiki was able to
get Squeak running in it, and that was a milestone benchmark that points the
way
for better systems than Squeak.
Cheers,
Alan
From: Jakob Praher j...@hapra.at
To: fonc@vpri.org
On 26/07/2011, at 12:20 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
You lost me here. My attitude to Ruby is same as to Perl: lets take
bit from here, bit from there, mix well everything and voila! , we
having new programming language.
It may be good for cooking recipe, but definitely not very good for
On 26/07/2011, at 12:20 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
But for programming its a bit different: you giving to people a tool
which they will use to craft their own products. And depending on how
good/bad this tool are, the end product's quality will vary.
And also, it would be too good to be
On 26/07/2011, at 12:20 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
Say, for example, like making a telephone that is vastly more easy to use
than all other telephones on the planet. Now, for tech geeks, it's not
really *that* much easier to use... For example, when the iPhone came out, I
got one, and the
On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 4:40 PM, Julian Leviston jul...@leviston.netwrote:
I guess my question is... what's stopping an alternative, replacement,
backwardly-compatible protocol from taking over where http and https
leave off?
HTTP and HTTPS are not very good protocols if your goals relate to
The argument about mass popularity is good if all you want to do is triumph
in
the consumer products business (c.f. many previous raps I've done about the
anthropological human universals and how and why technological amplifiers for
them have been and will be very popular).
This is because
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