Re: Age and Language (was Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?)

2011-06-22 Thread Steve Wart
Still, databases and file systems are both based on concepts that predate electronic computers. When Windows and Macs came along the document metaphor became prevalent, but in practice this was always just a user friendly name for a file. The layers and layers of slightly broken metaphors never

Re: Age and Language (was Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?)

2011-06-22 Thread BGB
On 6/22/2011 5:08 PM, Steve Wart wrote: Still, databases and file systems are both based on concepts that predate electronic computers. When Windows and Macs came along the document metaphor became prevalent, but in practice this was always just a user friendly name for a file. The layers and

Re: Age and Language (was Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?)

2011-06-22 Thread Julian Leviston
On 23/06/2011, at 10:08 AM, Steve Wart wrote: So how can you make simple languages simple to use? Developers have been rejecting complex GUIs in favour of plain text. If Google and Apple are right, every program component isn't a file on a disk, but rather some network accessible resource.

Re: Age and Language (was Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?)

2011-06-22 Thread Max OrHai
The emergence of ubiquitous internet media and the distribution architecture we've built around it has shifted attention to the communication needs of people. Many are employed in the Web industry and others unemployed... market forces come into play. It's all possible because of established (and

Re: Age and Language (was Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?)

2011-06-22 Thread Julian Leviston
On 23/06/2011, at 12:35 PM, Max OrHai wrote: People who want a small language should be prepared to be somewhat idiosyncratic, if they want to express big or complex programs. I mean 'language' here not just in terms of a programming language definition but rather to mean all constructs

Re: Age and Language (was Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?)

2011-06-22 Thread Max OrHai
I wish that emacs / vi, GBD, and the Unix shell had anything close to the n00b mode provided by Squeak in terms of inline documentation, tool tips, menus etc.. But, yeah, Squeak has serious problems, and you're absolutely right that it's too hard to tinker with the core of it, just like every