Hi Ivan,
Please forgive the speculativeness and abstruseness of my response to your
question ... but it's the best I can do!
The question that's really being asked here is, 'What is the future of
computing?' -- and I'm not sure it is possible to answer that question in
the abstract, just in the
BGB a écrit :
people need to live their lives, and to do this, they need a job and
money (and a house, car, ...).
As individuals, in our current society, yes. We can strive for other
solutions, however. A analogy with computing would be to say people
need an http//html browser to search the
BGB cr88...@gmail.com writes:
but you can't really afford a house without a job, and can't have a
job without a car (so that the person can travel between their job and
their house).
Job is an invention of the Industrial era. AFAIK, our great great grand
parents had houses.
I don't really
David-Sarah Hopwood david-sa...@jacaranda.org writes:
On 17/07/12 02:15, BGB wrote:
so, typically, males work towards having a job, getting lots money, ... and
will choose
females based mostly how useful they are to themselves (will they be
faithful, would they
make a good parent, ...).
Pascal J. Bourguignon a écrit :
BGB cr88...@gmail.com writes:
dunno, I learned originally partly by hacking on pre-existing
codebases, and by cobbling things together and seeing what all did and
did not work (and was later partly followed by looking at code and
writing functionally similar
On 7/17/2012 9:04 AM, Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote:
David-Sarah Hopwood david-sa...@jacaranda.org writes:
On 17/07/12 02:15, BGB wrote:
so, typically, males work towards having a job, getting lots money, ... and
will choose
females based mostly how useful they are to themselves (will they be
On 7/17/2012 11:12 AM, Loup Vaillant wrote:
Pascal J. Bourguignon a écrit :
BGB cr88...@gmail.com writes:
dunno, I learned originally partly by hacking on pre-existing
codebases, and by cobbling things together and seeing what all did and
did not work (and was later partly followed by looking
[Despite my better judgement I'm going to respond to this even though it is
seriously off-topic.]
On 17/07/12 17:18, BGB wrote:
an issue though is that society will not tend to see a person as they are as
a person, but
will rather tend to see a person in terms of a particular set of
On 7/17/2012 9:47 PM, David-Sarah Hopwood wrote:
[Despite my better judgement I'm going to respond to this even though it is
seriously off-topic.]
in all likelihood, the topic will probably end pretty soon anyways.
don't really know how much more can really be said on this particular
subject
Iian Neill iian.d.ne...@gmail.com writes:
And I suspect the fact that BASIC was an interpreted language had a
lot to do with fostering experimentation play.
BASIC wasn't interpreted. Not always. What matters is not interpreter
or compiler, but to have an INTERACTIVE environment, vs. a BATCH
Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote:
Iian Neill iian.d.ne...@gmail.com writes:
And I suspect the fact that BASIC was an interpreted language had a
lot to do with fostering experimentation play.
BASIC wasn't interpreted. Not always. What matters is not interpreter
or compiler, but to have an
Loup Vaillant l...@loup-vaillant.fr writes:
Pascal J. Bourguignon a écrit :
Unfortunately, [CS is] not generalized yet, like mathematics of history.
Did you mean history of mathematics? Or something like this?
http://www.ted.com/talks/jean_baptiste_michel_the_mathematics_of_history.html
Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net writes:
Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote:
Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net writes:
And seems to have turned into something about needing to recreate the
homebrew computing milieu, and everyone learning to program - and
perhaps why don't more
On 7/15/2012 2:48 PM, Tomasz Rola wrote:
Not really. Install Python, run interpreter and in black window type:
print Hello worldEnter
and you are done.
Or, install Racket, run it and in the interpreter subwindow type
(display Hello world)Enter
and you are done again. Even better, Racket
Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net writes:
Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote:
Indeed. The French National Education is answering to that question
with its educational programme, and the newly edited manual.
https://wiki.inria.fr/sciencinfolycee/TexteOfficielProgrammeISN
On 7/16/2012 8:00 AM, Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote:
Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net writes:
Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote:
Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net writes:
And seems to have turned into something about needing to recreate the
homebrew computing milieu, and everyone
On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 2:20 PM, Miles Fidelman
mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote:
question becomes: is this a separate discipline, or is it something to be
incorporated into math and science?
This question is examined at length here: http://www.ageofsignificance.org/
(Unfortunately something
BGB cr88...@gmail.com writes:
general programming probably doesn't need much more than pre-algebra
or maybe algebra level stuff anyways, but maybe touching on other
things that are useful to computing: matrices, vectors, sin/cos/...,
the big sigma notation, ...
Definitely. Programming needs
Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote:
No, no, no. That's the point of our discussion. There's a need to
increase computer-literacy, actually programming-literacy of the
general public.
The situation where everybody would be able (culturally, with a basic
knowing-how, an with the help of the right
On 7/16/2012 11:22 AM, Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote:
BGB cr88...@gmail.com writes:
general programming probably doesn't need much more than pre-algebra
or maybe algebra level stuff anyways, but maybe touching on other
things that are useful to computing: matrices, vectors, sin/cos/...,
the big
Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net writes:
Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote:
No, no, no. That's the point of our discussion. There's a need to
increase computer-literacy, actually programming-literacy of the
general public.
The situation where everybody would be able (culturally, with a
Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote:
Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net writes:
Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote:
No, no, no. That's the point of our discussion. There's a need to
increase computer-literacy, actually programming-literacy of the
general public.
The situation where everybody would
BGB cr88...@gmail.com writes:
and, one can ask: does your usual programmer actually even need to
know who the past US presidents were and what things they were known
for? or the differences between Ruminant and Equine digestive systems
regarding their ability to metabolize cellulose?
maybe
Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net writes:
Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote:
Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net writes:
Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote:
No, no, no. That's the point of our discussion. There's a need to
increase computer-literacy, actually programming-literacy of the
On 7/16/2012 8:59 PM, David-Sarah Hopwood wrote:
On 17/07/12 02:15, BGB wrote:
so, typically, males work towards having a job, getting lots money, ... and
will choose
females based mostly how useful they are to themselves (will they be faithful,
would they
make a good parent, ...).
Hi Ivan,
I don't mean to imply that the Eighties was necessarily a Golden Age
of home-brewed programming, or that it even instilled the best programming
practises -- i.e., BASIC -- but I think an argument can be made that
programming literacy -- even bad literacy -- was much more general at that
On 7/14/2012 5:11 PM, Iian Neill wrote:
Ivan,
I have some hope for projects like the Raspberry Pi computer, which aims to
replicate the 'homebrew' computing experience of the BBC Micro in Britain in
the 1980s. Of course, hardware is only part of the equation -- even versatile
hardware that
On Sun, 15 Jul 2012, Miles Fidelman wrote:
I keep coming back to the notion that transparent tools are really
important - there's something about impedance matching between what
we're trying to do and the tools we use. All too often, computer tools
seem to make things harder, not easier -
Iian Neill wrote:
Although there are plenty of blogs and forums on programming out there, it's
really sad that there isn't some mass medium for programming literacy -- and
I suspect that a big part of it is that, despite its many documented flaws,
BASIC
at least had a small and graspable
On Sun, 15 Jul 2012, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Ok. I have to rise to this :-)
[...]
See, I'm an engineer, but I write a LOT for a living - proposals,
papers, presentations, etc. When I'm trying to think through a logical
presentation of information, a good outliner helps a lot. Worrying
Tomasz Rola wrote:
Oh, I mean, yes, everybody can learn to program, but how many have any
kind of their own ideas for their own programs? Of all Lego (ab)users, how
many build their own constructs while the rest is content with copying
stuff? Of all literate humans, how many have something
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