Re: Antwort: Web Start
I also don't think WebStart can help us here. I'd like to add a comment here. Considerations like this are currently running hot within the ASF. We need to divide two problems: 1. The ASF is restricted in what it can distribute. There's a policy forming. I hope all FOP committers are subscribed to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. Our users who download FOP expect FOP to be available under the Apache license (v1 or v2). If we include non-Apache licensed works or if we download such works from other places (for example using Maven) the user also has to comply with the licenses under which the other works are distributed. The user needs to be made aware of that. So it may not be done with simply downloading files from other locations. AFAICT people will start (or already have started) to discuss this problem is it is not only FOP's problem. I hope the above is understandable. I'm not sure I've understood everything myself. Just summing up what I read on community@ and [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 19.03.2004 03:15:32 Peter B. West wrote: Let's say, for example, that we approach a TeX distribution with a request that we be allowed to download the TeX hyphenation files, as modified for use with Fop. If they are OK with that, we generate a jar file with the hyphenation files, including the original copyright (and possibly notes about the conversion being done under the auspices of Apache) and drop it on the CTAN servers. Alternatively, we simply jar up the original TeX files, and include a conversion process in the installation. The files are not coming from an Apache server, and they do not carry the Apache license (except for perhaps a Parts copyright... notice). It is a convenience to our users that we download such files transparently from another source on installation. Jeremias Maerki
Web Start
Fops, Does anyone have any detailed knowledge of Web Start? It occurred to me that it may be a way to resolve some of the licensing issues we (and other projects) are running into. Any educated thoughts on the matter? Peter -- Peter B. West http://www.powerup.com.au/~pbwest/resume.html
Re: Web Start
Peter B. West schrieb: Fops, Does anyone have any detailed knowledge of Web Start? It occurred to me that it may be a way to resolve some of the licensing issues we (and other projects) are running into. Any educated thoughts on the matter? Peter I didn't know about Web Start--looks very interesting [1], but I don't see where this would help FOP w.r.t. licensing--we would still be redistributing L/GPL and other license-incompatible software, even if automated by Web Start, correct? Glen [1] http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-07-2001/jw-0706-webstart.html
Antwort: Web Start
Hi Peter, we use Web Start in a customer project. It's a good solution to deploy Java applications as a JAR file, even with native code and such. Some caveats: -The security manager can get in your way if you want things like filesystem access. You have to sign your jar and each user has to accept your signature once per application. - You cannot catch uncaught exceptions in JNLP applications. This is useful for GUI applications, so you can catch and for example log these exceptions. With JNLP, AWT/Swing creates its own thread group so you're out of luck there. Maybe not an issue for fop. - Only comes with JRE 1.4 by default, and older WebStart version are quite buggy in my experience. So far I cannot see how exactly WebStart would be useful for FOP regarding licensing stuff, because your sources for parts like hyphenation libs still need to be JNLP jars, so you still need someone to actually provide these jars and thus take responsibility regarding legal issues. As for as I see it, you don't gain anything. But if you have something more concrete in mind, please feel free ask more concrete WebStart questions. Hope this helps, -- Arnd Beißner Cappelino Informationstechnologie GmbH Peter B. West [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb am 18.03.2004 15:40:19: Fops, Does anyone have any detailed knowledge of Web Start? It occurred to me that it may be a way to resolve some of the licensing issues we (and other projects) are running into. Any educated thoughts on the matter? Peter -- Peter B. West http://www.powerup.com.au/~pbwest/resume.html
Re: Web Start
Glen, I was thinking that with Web Start, we would not need to hold contentious files in the FOP repository. All we need is a reliable location for them, with appropriate verification. Then the process of installing FOP can transparently (or with loud warnings) include files from non-Apache sources. Peter Glen Mazza wrote: I didn't know about Web Start--looks very interesting [1], but I don't see where this would help FOP w.r.t. licensing--we would still be redistributing L/GPL and other license-incompatible software, even if automated by Web Start, correct? Glen [1] http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-07-2001/jw-0706-webstart.html -- Peter B. West http://www.powerup.com.au/~pbwest/resume.html
Re: Antwort: Web Start
Arnd, Keeping in mind that I am utterly ignorant of a lot of these issues, and am tossing straws in the wind, see comments below... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Peter, we use Web Start in a customer project. It's a good solution to deploy Java applications as a JAR file, even with native code and such. Some caveats: -The security manager can get in your way if you want things like filesystem access. You have to sign your jar and each user has to accept your signature once per application. If the once per application meant once per Fop installation, that would be OK. Can the user allow us file system access once the signature is accepted? - You cannot catch uncaught exceptions in JNLP applications. This is useful for GUI applications, so you can catch and for example log these exceptions. With JNLP, AWT/Swing creates its own thread group so you're out of luck there. Maybe not an issue for fop. I'd have to think about the implications of this. Drawing a blank at the moment. - Only comes with JRE 1.4 by default, and older WebStart version are quite buggy in my experience. This is a show stopper while we are supporting 1.3. So far I cannot see how exactly WebStart would be useful for FOP regarding licensing stuff, because your sources for parts like hyphenation libs still need to be JNLP jars, so you still need someone to actually provide these jars and thus take responsibility regarding legal issues. As for as I see it, you don't gain anything. Let's say, for example, that we approach a TeX distribution with a request that we be allowed to download the TeX hyphenation files, as modified for use with Fop. If they are OK with that, we generate a jar file with the hyphenation files, including the original copyright (and possibly notes about the conversion being done under the auspices of Apache) and drop it on the CTAN servers. Alternatively, we simply jar up the original TeX files, and include a conversion process in the installation. The files are not coming from an Apache server, and they do not carry the Apache license (except for perhaps a Parts copyright... notice). It is a convenience to our users that we download such files transparently from another source on installation. But if you have something more concrete in mind, please feel free ask more concrete WebStart questions. Thanks Arnd. Peter -- Peter B. West http://www.powerup.com.au/~pbwest/resume.html
Re: Fop With Java Web Start
On Thu, 2002-02-14 at 09:57, Jim Urban wrote: Has anyone used FOP within a Java Web Start application? I've used FOP in an application. I've used Java Web Start. I have not put an FOP application in Java Web Start. I don't see any reason it couldn't be done, though. I need to produce formatted reports for browsing and printing in a JWS application. I'm sure I can use the AWT option to display the report. My concern is, will the print option of the AWT window work within the JWS environment? You will need to request the grant of permissions by the user. You can request that all-permissions be granted. But then you have to sign all the jars. With FOP, all the jars that are needed are distributed. So you don't have to search your CLASSPATH to find out which jars to include in your JNLP file. Also, does the AWT presentation use the old AWT objects or Swing objects? Swing. -- Weiqi Gao [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fop With Java Web Start
Hello, I use FOP with JWS : no problem. You just have to sign the jar files. Bye, Stphane From: Weiqi Gao [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 02/15/2002 06:13 AM CST Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: SubjeRe: Fop With Java Web Start ct: On Thu, 2002-02-14 at 09:57, Jim Urban wrote: Has anyone used FOP within a Java Web Start application? I've used FOP in an application. I've used Java Web Start. I have not put an FOP application in Java Web Start. I don't see any reason it couldn't be done, though. I need to produce formatted reports for browsing and printing in a JWS application. I'm sure I can use the AWT option to display the report. My concern is, will the print option of the AWT window work within the JWS environment? You will need to request the grant of permissions by the user. You can request that all-permissions be granted. But then you have to sign all the jars. With FOP, all the jars that are needed are distributed. So you don't have to search your CLASSPATH to find out which jars to include in your JNLP file. Also, does the AWT presentation use the old AWT objects or Swing objects? Swing. -- Weiqi Gao [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Fop With Java Web Start
I just want to confirm your statement You just have to sign the jar files. The FOP (Apache - Jakarta) folks don't sign the fop.jar file? Is my signing it with my certificate within the copyright agreement? Just want to be legal, Jim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 7:34 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Fop With Java Web Start Hello, I use FOP with JWS : no problem. You just have to sign the jar files. Bye, Stphane From: Weiqi Gao [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 02/15/2002 06:13 AM CST Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: SubjeRe: Fop With Java Web Start ct: On Thu, 2002-02-14 at 09:57, Jim Urban wrote: Has anyone used FOP within a Java Web Start application? I've used FOP in an application. I've used Java Web Start. I have not put an FOP application in Java Web Start. I don't see any reason it couldn't be done, though. I need to produce formatted reports for browsing and printing in a JWS application. I'm sure I can use the AWT option to display the report. My concern is, will the print option of the AWT window work within the JWS environment? You will need to request the grant of permissions by the user. You can request that all-permissions be granted. But then you have to sign all the jars. With FOP, all the jars that are needed are distributed. So you don't have to search your CLASSPATH to find out which jars to include in your JNLP file. Also, does the AWT presentation use the old AWT objects or Swing objects? Swing. -- Weiqi Gao [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fop With Java Web Start
Has anyone used FOP within a Java Web Start application? I need to produce formatted reports for browsing and printing in a JWS application. I'm sure I can use the AWT option to display the report. My concern is, will the print option of the AWT window work within the JWS environment? Also, does the AWT presentation use the old AWT objects or Swing objects? Thanks, Jim Urban Product Manager Netsteps Inc. Suite 505E 1 Pierce Pl. Itasca, IL 60143 Voice: (630) 250-3045 x2164 Fax: (630) 250-3046 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
