Re: [fossil-users] Chiselapp.com shutting down
NB: Apologies if I don't get this to thread correctly, I've not got an email copy of the original post, so can't reply properly. As an occasional Fossil user, I have previously hosted using inetd/althttpd[1] and Chisel[2] as well as Dropbox. Now I have moved to cgi, given ssh access, it seems to be as simple as just three file copies, right? scp fossil user@webservers-ssh-domain:/path-to-host's-executables/bin/ ## if binary not available for host machine, then instead, do wget of the sources and ./configure make on the host scp repos.cgi user@webservers-ssh-domain:/path-to-host's-scripts/cgi-bin/ scp repo1.fossil user@webservers-ssh-domain:/path-to-host's-repositories/repos/ # repeat the above copy for more than one repository on the server # backup the original copied fossil archives from the client machine, and 'fossil clone' new copies from the server (fossils can be moved, but I think should not be duplicated, internals of fossil need state variables dependent upon the instance) A further thread I found very valuable is the knowledge that this can be done on sourceforge for open source projects [3]. I use fossil to share data with people who are normally dropbox users for their personal use and occasional users of corporate VCS/tracking tools. I and people I introduce Fossil to feel that it is an excellent model of elegant design and efficient workflow and would like to see it adopted more widely, and perhaps bring in extra valuable contributors. I find that the idea of hosting [4] is great and that for me; an additional facility matching dropbox background file syncing could perhaps widen the user base. A client(Fossil) installed like that for dropbox[5] on the users local machine would be most handy. As Fossil already does autosync and autocheckout, some extra client side automatic checkin and filename splitting on (rare) replication conflicts may be needed to match dropbox usability. On top of a Fossil hosting service, this wish I have, could be characterised as anybody who wants to use fossil like dropbox simply has to download the client package, open to install it, agree to let it start on reboot and run in the background. Given an available hosting solution, the user would see something like: If you're running this for the first time, you'll be asked to create a new account or add this to an existing account. Once you do, your Fossil folder will be created in your home directory. [1] althttpd, http://www.sqlite.org/docsrc/artifact/14c9965da19?ln=2-62 [2] chisel and flint, http://chiselapp.com/repositories/search/flint [3] ssh access to sourceforge, http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.fossil-scm.user/12163, really convenient option for self hosting open source [4] fossil hosting requirements, http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.fossil-scm.user/12160/focus=12167, anybody who wants to host something like chiselapp simply has to obtain a low-cost internet host, copy the fossil executable into /usr/bin, create a single CGI script that is less than 10 lines long, and they are up and running [5] dropbox client application, https://www.dropbox.com/help/247/en, seems to have wide adoption ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Chiselapp.com shutting down
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 7:37 AM, Nigel Bray fossil@9ox.net wrote: NB: Apologies if I don't get this to thread correctly, I've not got an email copy of the original post, so can't reply properly. As an occasional Fossil user, I have previously hosted using inetd/althttpd[1] and Chisel[2] as well as Dropbox. As a side note, in case you (and/or others) are not aware, Chisel found a new place to live at and is alive and well. The shutdown did not happen. Its url is completely unchanged, only the underlying IP address moved. [2] chisel and flint, http://chiselapp.com/repositories/search/flint -- Andreas Kupries Senior Tcl Developer Code to Cloud: Smarter, Safer, Faster™ F: 778.786.1133 andre...@activestate.com http://www.activestate.com Learn about Stackato for Private PaaS: http://www.activestate.com/stackato Tcl'2013, Sep 23-27, New Orleans, LA, USA @ http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2013/ EuroTcl'2013, July 6-7, Munich, GER ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Chiselapp.com shutting down
On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 6:55 AM, Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org wrote: Suppose I did write my own hosting system. What is is required for that. (James, you have the most experience with this question, so your input is especially encouraged!) (1) Some means for people to create accounts There are many schemes. BTW, you should consider Mozilla's BrowserID authentication scheme. (2) Some means for people to upload Fossil repositories to hosted Create empty repos and then push to them. (3) Per-account bandwidth tracking? Would you charge for bandwidth? If not don't bother tracking it. (4) Require advertising (example http://system.data.sqlite.org/) for unpaid accounts? Sure. (5) Require unpaid accounts to be open-source? Other repo hosting sites tend to charge according to how many private repos you have. You could offer 1-3 private repos for free + a size limit on the repos, then charge for anything beyond that. (6) Some mechanism to accept payment for private or add-free accounts? Yes, if you'll charge at all. (7) Procedures to deal with DMCA takedown requests? Speak to a lawyer about that. What else is needed? James, what are your bandwidth, cpu, and disk space requirements? (You can send me that via private email if you prefer.) Egor Homakov had a great blog post[0] about the need to have separate origins for the domain where users login to manage their data, and the domains where user pages can be viewed. I.e., using chiselapp.com as an example, you need two domains: chiselapp.com and chiselapppages.com, with the former hosting only the fossil services and any additional web interfaces, and the latter hosting the web view of user fossil repos. [0] http://homakov.blogspot.com/2013/03/hacking-github-with-webkit.html Nico -- ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Chiselapp.com shutting down
On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 6:55 AM, Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org wrote: What else is needed? You'll also need: - user and repo mgmt interfaces If you grow you'll want a search facility (search multiple repos), edit via browser UIs, ... Like github, basically. Nico -- ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Chiselapp.com shutting down
On 03/29/2013 03:34 PM, Richard Hipp wrote: What if we were to extend Fossil itself so that it was capable of hosting multiple projects after the fashion of chiselapp? Fossil already has the feature of being able to host multiple projects using a single CGI script or single stand-alone server instance. (...) I currently have this set up on a server (http://fossil.2of4.net): one directory full of fossil repositories, and a (hand-crafted) index page listing all the repositories starting with a lowercase letter (as a poor man's version of public repositories). A script, running every 15 minutes, updates the index page if the max(mtime) of all the repository files is more recent than last time it ran. This works fine for hosting my own repositories, but not for providing a hosting platform for other people's repositories. I'm wondering if this capability can be extended in modest ways to provide a full-blown chiselapp replacement. The idea is that anybody who wants to host something like chiselapp simply has to obtain a low-cost internet host, copy the fossil executable into /usr/bin, create a single CGI script that is less than 10 lines long, and they are up and running. I'm still a little fuzzy on the details of how this would all work, though. Feature suggestions from readers and chiselapp users are appreciated. Chisel is set up so that your Chisel username becomes the admin-username for each of your hosted repositories. After logging in on Chisel, your personal dashboard page provides the following options: * a list of _your_ repositories (both public and private); * option to create a new repository, by either - creating a new repo, or - cloning an existing repo; * manually sync an existing repository; * remove a repository. * for each repository, you can edit the following properties: - your password - the remote URL for the repo - whether or not to periodically sync the repo - make the repo public or private Apart from changing your password and the remote URL, none of this is possible through Fossil's current web interface, AFAIK. One thing you could do, is add a CGI parameter to indicate one repository to rule them all, I mean a repo to provide the skin and store the users' information for the 'hosting' website. That way, perhaps you could re-use the current functionality for logging in, and generating skinned webpages. You'd still need a web interface listing all public repos; and also a list of public and private personal repos once a user has logged in. For that, you'd need a way to keep track of which repo belongs to which user, and whether it's public or private; then provide a web interface for editing these properties. You'd also need webpages for adding and removing repos from the server, and manually syncing a repo. -- Martijn Coppoolse ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Chiselapp.com shutting down
On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 12:48 AM, Timothy Beyer bey...@fastmail.net wrote: At Thu, 28 Mar 2013 20:52:59 -0400, James Turner wrote: After a couple weeks of debate, I've decided to shut down Chiselapp.com. I think that the Fossil project should aim to have at least one official host to replace chiselapp. Yes, I suppose there really ought to be a hosting service for Fossil someplace So I'm exploring the option of setting up a new one. The first decision is (1) whether to use James' Flint code base or (2) write my own. Those who know me recognize that I would tend toward (2). (Were it not for this tendency, Fossil and SQLite might not exist, after all.) Suppose I did write my own hosting system. What is is required for that. (James, you have the most experience with this question, so your input is especially encouraged!) (1) Some means for people to create accounts (2) Some means for people to upload Fossil repositories to hosted (3) Per-account bandwidth tracking? (4) Require advertising (example http://system.data.sqlite.org/) for unpaid accounts? (5) Require unpaid accounts to be open-source? (6) Some mechanism to accept payment for private or add-free accounts? (7) Procedures to deal with DMCA takedown requests? What else is needed? James, what are your bandwidth, cpu, and disk space requirements? (You can send me that via private email if you prefer.) -- D. Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Chiselapp.com shutting down
Thank you, James, for Chiselapp. I'm sorry to see it go.
On Mar 29, 2013, at 7:55 AM, Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org wrote:
(5) Require unpaid accounts to be open-source?
One of the most important things that drew me to Chiselapp, and to using Fossil
for personal projects, was free private accounts. It is important to have a low
barrier to entry. I imagine there would need to be bandwidth and storage
limitations for free accounts, but these limits should be set up so a new user
would be assured that the limits would not be exceeded accidentally. They could
be big enough to make this obvious, or actual usage could be reported
prominently to the repo owner.
(4) Require advertising (example http://system.data.sqlite.org/) for
unpaid accounts?
I find the word advertising to be confusing here in the context of the
linked page.
Do you mean banner ads on pages in unpaid accounts? That would be OK to me.
(6) Some mechanism to accept payment for private or add-free accounts?
Yes.
My Chiselapp usage includes a mix of open-source and private repos in the same
account, so perhaps the designation of {open/free, open/paid, private/free,
private/paid} should be on a repo-basis and not on an account basis.
e
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Re: [fossil-users] Chiselapp.com shutting down
Op 29-3-2013 1:52, James Turner schreef: After a couple weeks of debate, I've decided to shut down Chiselapp.com. As the message on the homepage states, new account and repository creation has been disabled. Access to the website and repositories will remain open until May 1st 2013. Sad to see it go, I really liked its simplicity (both in usage and looks). If someone wanted to carry on the initiative, could you tell us approximately what the load would be, both in terms of bandwidth and storage space? A big thanks for everyone who's used the service, sadly I just don't have the time to maintain it and hosting it has started to become a burden. A big thank you for having hosted it all these years! The Chisel codebase, Flint, is available under the AGPLv3 license so if your interested now is probably the time to grab it. I’d already done that. :-) -- Martijn Coppoolse ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Chiselapp.com shutting down
On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 7:55 AM, Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org wrote: On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 12:48 AM, Timothy Beyer bey...@fastmail.netwrote: At Thu, 28 Mar 2013 20:52:59 -0400, James Turner wrote: After a couple weeks of debate, I've decided to shut down Chiselapp.com. I think that the Fossil project should aim to have at least one official host to replace chiselapp. Yes, I suppose there really ought to be a hosting service for Fossil someplace So I'm exploring the option of setting up a new one. What if we were to extend Fossil itself so that it was capable of hosting multiple projects after the fashion of chiselapp? Fossil already has the feature of being able to host multiple projects using a single CGI script or single stand-alone server instance. To host multiple projects using a single CGI script, simply create the script like this: #!/usr/bin/fossil directory: /some/path Any files with the *.fossil suffix under the given directory path will be served by this CGI script. There are other attributes that can be set on this script to control what happens for unknown URLs and the sending of content files (other than *.fossil files) found in the directory hierarchy. I'm wondering if this capability can be extended in modest ways to provide a full-blown chiselapp replacement. The idea is that anybody who wants to host something like chiselapp simply has to obtain a low-cost internet host, copy the fossil executable into /usr/bin, create a single CGI script that is less than 10 lines long, and they are up and running. I'm still a little fuzzy on the details of how this would all work, though. Feature suggestions from readers and chiselapp users are appreciated. -- D. Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Chiselapp.com shutting down
One thing that would be really nice IMHO would be to provide a mechanism to derive a repo from an existing one and have that connection clear and visible on the site. This would have to be optional. Having support for this inside a single fossil would be ideal from my perspective but I understand that is not a popular point of view. Just my $0.02. On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 4:55 AM, Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org wrote: On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 12:48 AM, Timothy Beyer bey...@fastmail.netwrote: At Thu, 28 Mar 2013 20:52:59 -0400, James Turner wrote: After a couple weeks of debate, I've decided to shut down Chiselapp.com. I think that the Fossil project should aim to have at least one official host to replace chiselapp. Yes, I suppose there really ought to be a hosting service for Fossil someplace So I'm exploring the option of setting up a new one. The first decision is (1) whether to use James' Flint code base or (2) write my own. Those who know me recognize that I would tend toward (2). (Were it not for this tendency, Fossil and SQLite might not exist, after all.) Suppose I did write my own hosting system. What is is required for that. (James, you have the most experience with this question, so your input is especially encouraged!) (1) Some means for people to create accounts (2) Some means for people to upload Fossil repositories to hosted (3) Per-account bandwidth tracking? (4) Require advertising (example http://system.data.sqlite.org/) for unpaid accounts? (5) Require unpaid accounts to be open-source? (6) Some mechanism to accept payment for private or add-free accounts? (7) Procedures to deal with DMCA takedown requests? What else is needed? James, what are your bandwidth, cpu, and disk space requirements? (You can send me that via private email if you prefer.) -- D. Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Chiselapp.com shutting down
On Mar 29, 2013, at 15:34 , Richard Hipp wrote: Yes, I suppose there really ought to be a hosting service for Fossil someplace So I'm exploring the option of setting up a new one. What if we were to extend Fossil itself so that it was capable of hosting multiple projects after the fashion of chiselapp? This was my way to see the future of Fossil some time ago. See the self-register feature, the only one for which my motivation sufficed... I pretty much loved to think of Fossil as Github in a box. But it always was not enough Github in it to be sufficient. I agree that user and repository management is important. As are some quality of life things, like default ticket configuration and markdown support. But what Fossil really lacks for the open source world is the fork/pull request workflow. Without it it will rest confined to the smaller/better organized teams. Thus it will not need a hosting service that much. Just my $0.02. Kind regards, Remigiusz Modrzejewski ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Chiselapp.com shutting down
On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 02:29:54PM +0100, Martijn Coppoolse wrote: Op 29-3-2013 1:52, James Turner schreef: After a couple weeks of debate, I've decided to shut down Chiselapp.com. As the message on the homepage states, new account and repository creation has been disabled. Access to the website and repositories will remain open until May 1st 2013. Sad to see it go, I really liked its simplicity (both in usage and looks). If someone wanted to carry on the initiative, could you tell us approximately what the load would be, both in terms of bandwidth and storage space? A big thanks for everyone who's used the service, sadly I just don't have the time to maintain it and hosting it has started to become a burden. A big thank you for having hosted it all these years! The Chisel codebase, Flint, is available under the AGPLv3 license so if your interested now is probably the time to grab it. I’d already done that. :-) -- Martijn Coppoolse ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users Martijn, I don't really have numbers for bandwidth usage, I host it at my home on a business internet connection so I don't keep track since it's unlimited. However, space wise Chisel has about 11.4G worth of repositories. It's a fairly small operation I just don't have the time or frankly the interest in running it anymore. -- James Turner ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Chiselapp.com shutting down
James Turner james@... writes: [message clipped] The Chisel codebase, Flint, is available under the AGPLv3 license so if your interested now is probably the time to grab it. James, would you consider changing the license to something more permissive, perhaps BSD-style, or at least the GPL? I understand the intent behind the AGPL, but I think the project is more likely to survive in the community with a less- restrictive license. Thanks for hosting the service for all this time! ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Chiselapp.com shutting down
On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 05:09:46PM +, John Coulter wrote: James Turner james@... writes: [message clipped] The Chisel codebase, Flint, is available under the AGPLv3 license so if your interested now is probably the time to grab it. James, would you consider changing the license to something more permissive, perhaps BSD-style, or at least the GPL? I understand the intent behind the AGPL, but I think the project is more likely to survive in the community with a less- restrictive license. Thanks for hosting the service for all this time! Done. Flint is now licensed under the more permissive ISC license [0]. [0] http://opensource.org/licenses/ISC -- James Turner ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
[fossil-users] Chiselapp.com shutting down
After a couple weeks of debate, I've decided to shut down Chiselapp.com. As the message on the homepage states, new account and repository creation has been disabled. Access to the website and repositories will remain open until May 1st 2013. Richard, if you wouldn't mind removing the link to chiselapp.com from the Fossil homepage I would appreciate it. A diff is attached for your convenience. A big thanks for everyone who's used the service, sadly I just don't have the time to maintain it and hosting it has started to become a burden. The Chisel codebase, Flint, is available under the AGPLv3 license so if your interested now is probably the time to grab it. -- James Turner Index: www/index.wiki == --- www/index.wiki +++ www/index.wiki @@ -142,12 +142,10 @@ * How Fossil does [./password.wiki | password management]. * On-line [/help | help]. * Documentation on the [http://www.sqliteconcepts.org/THManual.pdf | TH1 Script Language] used to configure the ticketing subsystem. - * A free hosting server for Fossil repositories is available at - [http://chiselapp.com/]. * How to [./server.wiki | set up a server] for your repository. * Customizing the [./custom_ticket.wiki | ticket system]. * Methods to [./checkin_names.wiki | identify a specific check-in]. * [./inout.wiki | Import and export] from and to Git. * [./fossil-v-git.wiki | Fossil versus Git]. ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Chiselapp.com shutting down
At Thu, 28 Mar 2013 20:52:59 -0400, James Turner wrote: After a couple weeks of debate, I've decided to shut down Chiselapp.com. As the message on the homepage states, new account and repository creation has been disabled. Access to the website and repositories will remain open until May 1st 2013. Hi James, That's really a bummer, I really liked the Chisel service. Thank you very much for hosting it for all of these years, though! Side note to list: Does anyone know of any good fossil hosts right now? I'm thinking of moving my repositories to sourceforge, since someone came up with a way to use fossil unofficially. I'm going to see if the same is possible on BerliOS via cgi, since I already use that service for binary hosting. I think that the Fossil project should aim to have at least one official host to replace chiselapp. Tim ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
