Well, if the list is for general dispute resolution technique, it could be
valuable to all projects.
From: Mike.lifeguard mikelifegu...@fastmail.fm
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 6:06:10 PM
Bad news is that I was right almost a year ago about trends of new
Wikimedians. Relatively good news is that the statistics may be
interpreted as not so bad ones. Good news is that WMF started to act
in relation to those problems around half a year ago.
I went to en.wp stats [1] and I've seen
On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 6:06 PM,
Mike.lifeguardmikelifegu...@fastmail.fm wrote:
I'm sorry, this is really not something that needs discussion on
foundation-l. This concerns English Wikipedia, and not the wider
Wikimedia community or the Foundation itself. Please consider moving
this
Milos Rancic wrote:
In all cases we need to think seriously how to educate younger
generations about Wikipedia and other Wikimedia projects.
Thanks for all the data and the number crunching. But I think you are
wrong in your assumptions and therefore in your analysis at least
regarding de-WP.
Bad news is that I was right almost a year ago about trends of new
Wikimedians. Relatively good news is that the statistics may be
interpreted as not so bad ones. Good news is that WMF started to act
in relation to those problems around half a year ago.
July 17, 2009: the method of counting
Hello Milos,
What an informative note you made!
Thanks a lot!
There is a lot to think about but as for meantime would you please
provide more details on
If we assume that our target groups
are between 15 and 24...
(and you never went over age of 35 in your analisys)
?
As a part of that: do
Here we are not looking at 15 year olds, we are looking
at retired academics as the future of our user base.
That's right point!
If Wikipedia is education tool we should (!) think about something
more than cross-education of teenagers and students
As a matter od fact teenagers contribute
Do you have any ideas how to get them? As I still believe, for many
articles this is a meta issue, meaning that it is likely that only a few
people in the world have necessary expertise AND a wish to edit the
articles, and they all speak English, but may have random mothertongues
(not
The retired academics trend is apparent at en.wikt too. There are many
valuable depth and quality contributions that they can make and few others
can.
It might be possible to rely on a population of academics as contributors
but there needs to be a mechanism to make sure that the needs of our
2009/7/24 Henning Schlottmann h.schlottm...@gmx.net:
Milos Rancic wrote:
In all cases we need to think seriously how to educate younger
generations about Wikipedia and other Wikimedia projects.
Thanks for all the data and the number crunching. But I think you are
wrong in your assumptions
Henning Schlottmann wrote:
Quite frankly, a 15 years old can't contribute to de-WP anymore. Not
even 20 years olds can. De-WP has reached a level where undergraduates
Pavlo Shevelo wrote:
As a matter od fact teenagers contribute mainly to articles about
sports, movies and other
Nikola Smolenski wrote:
Anyone else concerned by this line of reasoning? What happened to
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia anyone can edit?
Everyone may contribute, but not everyone can.*
Ciao Henning
* Mantra No.2:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer:Markus_Mueller/Mantras
Disclaimer:
Just to clarify: The passage below was one I quoted and was requoted by
Nikola. It was from another en.wikt admin, NOT ME. Moreover it is not
en.wikt policy and got negative response, but not as much as I would have
hoped, from those I believe to be retired and active academics and graduate
Some complementing data on users from Swedish Wikipedia,
-Youngsters 15-22- high turnover somewhat decreasing volume - do
vandal fighting, write of computer games, music, film, sport etc (and
these areas are worthy of respect too)
-Middle aged 22-50
--An increasing number of low volume
Dennis During wrote:
It might be possible to rely on a population of academics as contributors
but there needs to be a mechanism to make sure that the needs of our actual
users have appropriate weight in decision making
Who are our actual users? Students are of course well known to use
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 7:23 AM, Yaroslav M. Blanter pute...@mccme.ruwrote:
On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 6:06 PM,
Mike.lifeguardmikelifegu...@fastmail.fm wrote:
I'm sorry, this is really not something that needs discussion on
foundation-l. This concerns English Wikipedia, and not the wider
Dennis During wrote:
Uhm sorry but I don't think it's acceptable to confine ourselves with the
user vulgaris, which is by definition semi-literate imbecile :) Our target
Anyone else concerned by this line of reasoning? What happened to
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia anyone can edit?
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 4:34 PM, Henning
Schlottmannh.schlottm...@gmx.net wrote:
But do we know how many professionals and other people from the general
public use Wikipedia every day? One of the most active contributors to
de-WP once told the story that he was at a pediatric with his sick
Do you have any ideas how to get them? As I still believe, for many
articles this is a meta issue, meaning that it is likely that only a few
people in the world have necessary expertise AND a wish to edit the
articles, and they all speak English, but may have random mothertongues
(not
Initially, I wanted to ask questions; to say that we need this or that
analysis. But, I realized that I am able to make some approximations
based on my Wikimedian experience. Of course, if we get more precise
data, we would be able to make more precise conclusions.
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 3:48
My point is: We don't write for students. Our articles should be on a
level where everyone, including kids understands the introduction and
can find further information in the main text, but we should not dumb
down articles to the needs of school curriculums.
Ciao Henning
There are
There is some overlap though. I tend to find (certainly on en-wikip)
there are some articles which could be explained in layman's terms,
particularly in maths and physics, that don't bother and just launch
into a forest of LaTeX.
I agree that every article ideally should have a Subject in a
--- El vie, 24/7/09, Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com escribió:
De: Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com
Asunto: Re: [Foundation-l] Analysis of statistics
Para: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Fecha: viernes, 24 julio, 2009 5:25
Whatever means in the official
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Jonathan Hall sinew...@silentflame.comwrote:
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 16:31, Yaroslav M. Blanterpute...@mccme.ru
wrote:
My point is: We don't write for students. Our articles should be on a
There is some overlap though. I tend to find (certainly on en-wikip)
Henning Schlottmann wrote:
Who are our actual users?
This is a good question, not only with respect to level (youth or
academic), but also for topics (academic subjects like medicine,
or popular culture). Retired academics might provide useful input
on how to treat cancer, but might be out
Henning Schlottmann wrote:
Who are our actual users?
This is a good question, not only with respect to level (youth or
academic), but also for topics (academic subjects like medicine,
or popular culture). Retired academics might provide useful input
on how to treat cancer, but might be
Everyone may contribute, but not everyone can.*
to contribute =/= to write new articles / to add new info
#categorization
#linking
#templating
#bots making
#translating
#etc.
I know many young people who '''can''' clean up Wikipedia very well.
przykuta
http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/16060
Basically, if you cut'n'paste text, it appends a CC credit line to the
pasted text. Obviously the paster can remove it, but it does remind
them this is licensed, not PD.
Worth using for our stuff? A bit obnoxious? What do you think?
- d.
Nikola Smolenski wrote:
Henning Schlottmann wrote:
Quite frankly, a 15 years old can't contribute to de-WP anymore. Not
even 20 years olds can. De-WP has reached a level where undergraduates
Pavlo Shevelo wrote:
As a matter od fact teenagers contribute mainly to articles about
2009/7/24 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com:
http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/16060
Basically, if you cut'n'paste text, it appends a CC credit line to the
pasted text. Obviously the paster can remove it, but it does remind
them this is licensed, not PD.
Worth using for our stuff? A bit
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:46 AM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.comwrote:
2009/7/24 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com:
http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/16060
Basically, if you cut'n'paste text, it appends a CC credit line to the
pasted text. Obviously the paster can remove it,
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 7:46 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.comwrote:
2009/7/24 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com:
http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/16060
Basically, if you cut'n'paste text, it appends a CC credit line to the
pasted text. Obviously the paster can remove it, but
2009/7/24 Brian brian.min...@colorado.edu:
In that case they can highlight the attribution and press backspace!
Sure, but we shouldn't make it unnecessarily difficult for people to
reuse our content and tidying up after our crude attempt to force
attribution would qualify as unnecessarily
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.comwrote:
2009/7/24 Brian brian.min...@colorado.edu:
In that case they can highlight the attribution and press backspace!
Sure, but we shouldn't make it unnecessarily difficult for people to
reuse our content and tidying up
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Thomas Daltonthomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote:
2009/7/24 Brian brian.min...@colorado.edu:
In that case they can highlight the attribution and press backspace!
Sure, but we shouldn't make it unnecessarily difficult for people to
reuse our content and tidying up
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 7:04 AM, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote:
2009/7/24 Henning Schlottmann h.schlottm...@gmx.net:
Milos Rancic wrote:
In all cases we need to think seriously how to educate younger
generations about Wikipedia and other Wikimedia projects.
Thanks for all the data and
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Geoffrey Plourdegeo.p...@yahoo.com wrote:
Well, if the list is for general dispute resolution technique, it could be
valuable to all projects.
Its a very simple idea, and one which sort of fills a role that
wikien-l played for years, and for which there are
2009/7/24 Gregory Maxwell gmaxw...@gmail.com:
Eh, backspace isn't much of a difficulty. It could probably also be
made to only trigger for text over some particular size. You're not
likely to have a legal obligation for a couple of words, but if you
copy several paragraphs you'll have both a
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 2:58 PM, stevertigostv...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Geoffrey Plourdegeo.p...@yahoo.com wrote:
Well, if the list is for general dispute resolution technique, it could be
valuable to all projects.
Its a very simple idea, and one which sort of
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Chadinnocentkil...@gmail.com wrote:
I don't care who's proposing it, to be honest. My issue is that
this thread does not belong on foundation-l, which others seem
to agree since I first said so some 14 posts ago. Take it back
to wikien-l, /please/.
If you
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 3:24 PM, stevertigostv...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Chadinnocentkil...@gmail.com wrote:
I don't care who's proposing it, to be honest. My issue is that
this thread does not belong on foundation-l, which others seem
to agree since I first said
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Chadinnocentkil...@gmail.com wrote:
Pedro pretty much outlined my views already. I was going to write
a point-by-point rebuttal as to why this doesn't belong on foundation-l,
but I decided not to. Honestly, I thought it was pretty damn obvious
that this
Hoi,
What do you not understand ? It has been explained to you that the en
approach is not compatible with what happens elsewhere. This list is
explicitly NOT about the en policies. You have been politely asked to go
away.. Now what does it take for you to move on with this nonsense ?
Thanks,
Gerard Meijssengerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote:
What do you not understand ?
That is not for you to say.
It has been explained to you that the en approach is not compatible with what
happens elsewhere.
What does this even mean? Nothing has been explained. Terse and
useless go away's do not
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 3:48 PM, stevertigostv...@gmail.com wrote:
Gerard Meijssengerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote:
What do you not understand ?
That is not for you to say.
It has been explained to you that the en approach is not compatible with
what happens elsewhere.
What does this even
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 3:56 PM, stevertigo stv...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 12:54 PM, Chadinnocentkil...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm speaking as a volunteer: go away, and take your thread with you.
It is /not/ appropriate for foundation-l, period.
It is obvious to everyone
No, really, you need to discuss this on wikien-l instead of here. This
has been explained to you by multiple people on multiple occasions. I'd
suggest someone enforce that if need be.
Thanks,
-Mike
On Fri, 2009-07-24 at 12:24 -0700, stevertigo wrote:
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 12:09 PM,
On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 1:12 PM, stevertigostv...@gmail.com wrote:
I started a thread on Wikien-l last month suggesting we start a
dispute resolution mailing list:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2009-June/101428.html
Responses were largely positive, and what little criticism
--- On Fri, 7/24/09, stevertigo stv...@gmail.com wrote:
From: stevertigo stv...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Dispute resolution mailing list
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 2:56 PM
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 12:54
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 3:38 PM, Birgitte SBbirgitte...@yahoo.com wrote:
The foundation is not really like en.WP bumped up another level. We rarely
get into policing such issues on this mailing list and that is nowhere near
past tolerance levels, because of among other things features in
I asked a source if they may grant us access to some statistics on users
behaviour within social media. The time series starts well before Nupedia.
John
Felipe Ortega wrote:
--- El vie, 24/7/09, Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com escribió:
De: Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com
Asunto: Re:
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 10:23 PM, Pavlo Shevelopavlo.shev...@gmail.com wrote:
* ... Older age groups are not interesting
anymore in the sense of quantity
Are we really interested in quantity as that? Are we?
In other words, whatever we want or prefer, projects which hope that
their main
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