RE: [TCS Users] Re: Why we love Adobe Tech Support...

[Saunders, Ian]

Am I missing something?

I am assuming the asterisk is not your edit of a rude word.

If so, the whole “*you” business arose because Pete misspelled it as “yo” in 
the previous chat line. He was correcting it.

Regards

Ian


From: tcs-us...@googlegroups.com [mailto:tcs-us...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
Of Art Campbell
Sent: 12 August 2013 22:00
To: Bethany Lee
Cc: FrameUsers List; Free Framers; tcs-users
Subject: [TCS Users] Re: Why we love Adobe Tech Support...

He typed "^you" and hit the transfer key at the same time.

I did eventually get the link, which is well-hidden.
Second support person was efficient, polite, and got the info promptly.

Art Campbell
  art.campb...@gmail.com
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a 
redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
  No disclaimers apply.
   DoD 358

I support www.TheGrotonLine.com, hyperlocal news 
for Groton MA.

On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 3:28 PM, Bethany Lee 
mailto:bethany@lakeshore.com>> wrote:
I want to know what happened after this. Did he transfer you or hang up on you? 
I think if I were Pete, and you said, “Do I have a choice?” I would have said, 
“yeah, you can wait while I transfer you or you can quit this chat. It’s your 
choice. “ ☺
I think people doing chat help get a lot of crap from users of chat help. It’s 
super easy to be rude to people who are on chat help and I bet they experience 
a lot of that every day. I think it takes a steel exterior to be able to do 
customer service of any kind, and chat service even more so. Maybe Pete doesn’t 
have that steel exterior or maybe he’s just been doing it too long and he needs 
a change of job.

From: 
framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com]
 On Behalf Of Art Campbell
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2013 3:10 PM
To: FrameUsers List; Free Framers; tcs-users
Subject: Why we love Adobe Tech Support...

The transcript of a chat session with "Pete" this afternoon. Back story: I'm 
looking for a download of Acrobat X, not the current version. And yes, I may 
have overstepped a wee bit when I asked "Do I have a choice?" but that doesn't 
detract from the cheery ending from "Pete".  :- )
info: One moment please while we route your chat to a representative.
info: Thank you for contacting Adobe Sales. My name is Pete. How may I help you 
today?
You: Art
Pete: Hi, may I have your first name please?
You: Hi, I'm looking for the download/installer for Acrobat X Pro
You: Any idea of the URL?
Pete: Just to know, did you already purchase the software?
You: Yes, that's why I need the download.
Pete: In that case, let me go ahead and transfer this chat to our Technical 
Support Team to help you with the download, alright.
You: Do I have a choice?
Pete: You need to contact our technical team for the download, alright.
Pete: Let me transfer this chat, alright.
Pete: I am sorry, did I lose you?
You: No,
Pete: Thank yo for responding.
You: I'm waiting to be transferred -- I can't do it
Pete: *you.
You: and * you too,

Cheers,
Art

Art Campbell
  art.campb...@gmail.com
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a 
redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
  No disclaimers apply.
   DoD 358

I support www.TheGrotonLine.com, hyperlocal news 
for Groton MA.

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[TCS Users] Re: Why we love Adobe Tech Support...

[Saunders, Ian]

Am I missing something?

I am assuming the asterisk is not your edit of a rude word.

If so, the whole ?*you? business arose because Pete misspelled it as ?yo? in 
the previous chat line. He was correcting it.

Regards

Ian


From: TCS-Users at googlegroups.com [mailto:tcs-us...@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of Art Campbell
Sent: 12 August 2013 22:00
To: Bethany Lee
Cc: FrameUsers List; Free Framers; tcs-users
Subject: [TCS Users] Re: Why we love Adobe Tech Support...

He typed "^you" and hit the transfer key at the same time.

I did eventually get the link, which is well-hidden.
Second support person was efficient, polite, and got the info promptly.

Art Campbell
  art.campbell at gmail.com
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a 
redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
  No disclaimers apply.
   DoD 358

I support www.TheGrotonLine.com, hyperlocal news 
for Groton MA.

On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 3:28 PM, Bethany Lee mailto:bethany.lee at lakeshore.com>> wrote:
I want to know what happened after this. Did he transfer you or hang up on you? 
I think if I were Pete, and you said, ?Do I have a choice?? I would have said, 
?yeah, you can wait while I transfer you or you can quit this chat. It?s your 
choice. ? ?
I think people doing chat help get a lot of crap from users of chat help. It?s 
super easy to be rude to people who are on chat help and I bet they experience 
a lot of that every day. I think it takes a steel exterior to be able to do 
customer service of any kind, and chat service even more so. Maybe Pete doesn?t 
have that steel exterior or maybe he?s just been doing it too long and he needs 
a change of job.

From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at 
lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of 
Art Campbell
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2013 3:10 PM
To: FrameUsers List; Free Framers; tcs-users
Subject: Why we love Adobe Tech Support...

The transcript of a chat session with "Pete" this afternoon. Back story: I'm 
looking for a download of Acrobat X, not the current version. And yes, I may 
have overstepped a wee bit when I asked "Do I have a choice?" but that doesn't 
detract from the cheery ending from "Pete".  :- )
info: One moment please while we route your chat to a representative.
info: Thank you for contacting Adobe Sales. My name is Pete. How may I help you 
today?
You: Art
Pete: Hi, may I have your first name please?
You: Hi, I'm looking for the download/installer for Acrobat X Pro
You: Any idea of the URL?
Pete: Just to know, did you already purchase the software?
You: Yes, that's why I need the download.
Pete: In that case, let me go ahead and transfer this chat to our Technical 
Support Team to help you with the download, alright.
You: Do I have a choice?
Pete: You need to contact our technical team for the download, alright.
Pete: Let me transfer this chat, alright.
Pete: I am sorry, did I lose you?
You: No,
Pete: Thank yo for responding.
You: I'm waiting to be transferred -- I can't do it
Pete: *you.
You: and * you too,

Cheers,
Art

Art Campbell
  art.campbell at gmail.com
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a 
redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
  No disclaimers apply.
   DoD 358

I support www.TheGrotonLine.com, hyperlocal news 
for Groton MA.

--
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"Drop shadow" in Frame 11 tab text

[Saunders, Ian]

Thanks guys!

Do Adobe actually test their GUIs with real people? The text was perfectly 
readable in Frame 10. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

I have submitted the suggestion to Adobe.

Regards

Ian

From: Matt Sullivan [mailto:m...@mattrsullivan.com] 
Sent: 30 May 2013 18:29
To: Rick Quatro
Cc: Saunders, Ian; framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: "Drop shadow" in Frame 11 tab text

Ian, of course, you should submit a suggestion to that effect at 
adobe.com/go/wish. More "votes" = better chance of getting it fixed.

-Matt
Matt R. Sullivan?
co-author?Publishing Fundamentals: Unstructured FrameMaker 11?
P:?714.798.7596 |?C:?714.585.2335 |?matt at mattrsullivan.com?

@mattrsullivan?LinkedIn?facebook?mattrsullivan.com? 

On May 30, 2013, at 9:57 AM, Rick Quatro  wrote:


Hi Ian,

No, this can't be changed.

Rick

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-283-5045
rick at frameexpert.com




-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Saunders, Ian
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 12:26 PM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: "Drop shadow" in Frame 11 tab text

Hi,

Apologies if this has already been covered, but I have only just upgraded to
Frame 11, and am finding the text in the document tabs almost unreadable
because of a white drop shadow. 

Has anyone else experienced this, and - if so - is there a way of adjusting
the text to make it readable?

Windows 7
Frame 11.0.1.382, part of TCS4, all updates applied.

Many thanks.

Ian Saunders
Enghouse Interactive
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RE: "Drop shadow" in Frame 11 tab text

[Saunders, Ian]

Thanks guys!

Do Adobe actually test their GUIs with real people? The text was perfectly 
readable in Frame 10. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

I have submitted the suggestion to Adobe.

Regards

Ian

From: Matt Sullivan [mailto:m...@mattrsullivan.com] 
Sent: 30 May 2013 18:29
To: Rick Quatro
Cc: Saunders, Ian; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: "Drop shadow" in Frame 11 tab text

Ian, of course, you should submit a suggestion to that effect at 
adobe.com/go/wish. More "votes" = better chance of getting it fixed.

-Matt
Matt R. Sullivan 
co-author Publishing Fundamentals: Unstructured FrameMaker 11 
P: 714.798.7596 | C: 714.585.2335 | m...@mattrsullivan.com 

@mattrsullivan LinkedIn facebook mattrsullivan.com  

On May 30, 2013, at 9:57 AM, Rick Quatro  wrote:


Hi Ian,

No, this can't be changed.

Rick

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-283-5045
r...@frameexpert.com




-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Saunders, Ian
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 12:26 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: "Drop shadow" in Frame 11 tab text

Hi,

Apologies if this has already been covered, but I have only just upgraded to
Frame 11, and am finding the text in the document tabs almost unreadable
because of a white drop shadow. 

Has anyone else experienced this, and - if so - is there a way of adjusting
the text to make it readable?

Windows 7
Frame 11.0.1.382, part of TCS4, all updates applied.

Many thanks.

Ian Saunders
Enghouse Interactive
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"Drop shadow" in Frame 11 tab text

[Saunders, Ian]

Hi,

Apologies if this has already been covered, but I have only just upgraded to 
Frame 11, and am finding the text in the document tabs almost unreadable 
because of a white drop shadow. 

Has anyone else experienced this, and - if so - is there a way of adjusting the 
text to make it readable?

Windows 7
Frame 11.0.1.382, part of TCS4, all updates applied.

Many thanks.

Ian Saunders
Enghouse Interactive

"Drop shadow" in Frame 11 tab text

[Saunders, Ian]

Hi,

Apologies if this has already been covered, but I have only just upgraded to 
Frame 11, and am finding the text in the document tabs almost unreadable 
because of a white drop shadow. 

Has anyone else experienced this, and - if so - is there a way of adjusting the 
text to make it readable?

Windows 7
Frame 11.0.1.382, part of TCS4, all updates applied.

Many thanks.

Ian Saunders
Enghouse Interactive
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Any up to date comparisons of Word and Frame

[Saunders, Ian]

Hi,

I am a fanatical Frame user but it looks as though I am going to have to 
convert my docs to Word (long story, but half my company's docs are written 
using Word). I know this question comes up time after time, but most responses 
refer to old reviews and comparisons (though probably the only ones that exist 
on the web). 

I work well and efficiently in Frame, and know exactly what it can and can't 
do. I enjoy using it. I am scared that working in Word will be less efficient, 
more frustrating, and that it will crash and screw up my documents.

Can anyone provide or point me to an up to date comparison of Frame 8 or 9 vs 
Word 2007 (or later?). I know this is hard because very few folks use both 
tools extensively and know what each is capable of. Frame fans say that Word 
sucks, and Word fans say it doesn't. Tit for tat. 

Is Word's multifile functionality still broken? Does it produce hyperlinked 
index entries by default. Does the latest Word have any serious problems or 
deficiencies, and which Frame functionality will I miss that makes working in 
Word harder or more time-comsuming.

If I can present an argument that justifies sticking with Frame because of 
cost-savings, I may yet be able to stave off its demise.

Many thanks! 

Ian Saunders 
Syntellect Inc (UK)

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Any up to date comparisons of Word and Frame

[Saunders, Ian]

Hi,

I am a fanatical Frame user but it looks as though I am going to have to 
convert my docs to Word (long story, but half my company's docs are written 
using Word). I know this question comes up time after time, but most responses 
refer to old reviews and comparisons (though probably the only ones that exist 
on the web). 

I work well and efficiently in Frame, and know exactly what it can and can't 
do. I enjoy using it. I am scared that working in Word will be less efficient, 
more frustrating, and that it will crash and screw up my documents.

Can anyone provide or point me to an up to date comparison of Frame 8 or 9 vs 
Word 2007 (or later?). I know this is hard because very few folks use both 
tools extensively and know what each is capable of. Frame fans say that Word 
sucks, and Word fans say it doesn't. Tit for tat. 

Is Word's multifile functionality still broken? Does it produce hyperlinked 
index entries by default. Does the latest Word have any serious problems or 
deficiencies, and which Frame functionality will I miss that makes working in 
Word harder or more time-comsuming.

If I can present an argument that justifies sticking with Frame because of 
cost-savings, I may yet be able to stave off its demise.

Many thanks! 

Ian Saunders 
Syntellect Inc (UK)

Metrics for converting FrameMaker documents to Word

[Saunders, Ian]

Hi,

Does anyone have a set of metrics that they use to estimate the time required 
to convert a FrameMaker 8 document to an MS Word equivalent?

My experience has been that saving a Frame file to rtf is fairly quick, with 
reasonable conversion of text and layout. But after that you need to do the 
following post-processing for each Frame file:
* Recreate xrefs and hyperlinks 
* Re-insert index markers (after first removing whatever it is they are 
converted to)
* Re-insert variables (or the Word equivalent)
* Re-apply some colours
* Convert the paragraph style names (if the Word and Frame templates use 
different ones)
* Remove odd blank paragraphs
* Possibly recapture graphics and re-apply callouts
* Tweak paragraph formats - like removing extra line spacing
* Edit tables so that row heights are not fixed and better fit the cell contents

The conversion and basic tidying seems to take about a minute a page (no 
variable or index marker insertion), and each xref takes about a minute to 
re-add; so a 50 page file with 2 xrefs a page would be at least 150 minutes of 
work. Does this seem right to you?

Then one needs to:
* Weld the individual files together into a Word file
* Sort out page and paragraph numbering.
* Add a TOC and index

I've not done these. Are they problematic? Are there any other major steps that 
I have omitted?

Will any third-party tools simplify the job?

Thanks for any advice you can give!

Ian Saunders 
Syntellect Inc, UK
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Metrics for converting FrameMaker documents to Word

[Saunders, Ian]

Hi,

Does anyone have a set of metrics that they use to estimate the time required 
to convert a FrameMaker 8 document to an MS Word equivalent?

My experience has been that saving a Frame file to rtf is fairly quick, with 
reasonable conversion of text and layout. But after that you need to do the 
following post-processing for each Frame file:
* Recreate xrefs and hyperlinks 
* Re-insert index markers (after first removing whatever it is they are 
converted to)
* Re-insert variables (or the Word equivalent)
* Re-apply some colours
* Convert the paragraph style names (if the Word and Frame templates use 
different ones)
* Remove odd blank paragraphs
* Possibly recapture graphics and re-apply callouts
* Tweak paragraph formats - like removing extra line spacing
* Edit tables so that row heights are not fixed and better fit the cell contents

The conversion and basic tidying seems to take about a minute a page (no 
variable or index marker insertion), and each xref takes about a minute to 
re-add; so a 50 page file with 2 xrefs a page would be at least 150 minutes of 
work. Does this seem right to you?

Then one needs to:
* Weld the individual files together into a Word file
* Sort out page and paragraph numbering.
* Add a TOC and index

I've not done these. Are they problematic? Are there any other major steps that 
I have omitted?

Will any third-party tools simplify the job?

Thanks for any advice you can give!

Ian Saunders 
Syntellect Inc, UK

Off topic - three general documentation questions

[Saunders, Ian]

Please forgive this off-topic query, but I have nowhere else to turn for help.

My team are reviewing the Frame templates we use for producing PDF files. It 
has been suggested that we:

* Do not use chapter numbers/appendix letters

* Begin main index entries with a capital letter

* Put a logo (or message) on blank pages to show that they are not 
blank in error.

We have reached an impasse...

I would be extremely grateful to anyone who can supply their take on the 
relevant "industry standards" or maybe even point me at a definitive statement.

Many thanks!

Ian Saunders
Syntellect Inc

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Off topic - three general documentation questions

[Saunders, Ian]

Please forgive this off-topic query, but I have nowhere else to turn for help.

My team are reviewing the Frame templates we use for producing PDF files. It 
has been suggested that we:

* Do not use chapter numbers/appendix letters

* Begin main index entries with a capital letter

* Put a logo (or message) on blank pages to show that they are not 
blank in error.

We have reached an impasse...

I would be extremely grateful to anyone who can supply their take on the 
relevant "industry standards" or maybe even point me at a definitive statement.

Many thanks!

Ian Saunders
Syntellect Inc