FrameMaker vs. InDesign CS3
Other important arguments in favour of FrameMaker for technical documentation are also: * Tables (especially with the TableCleaner plug-in) * Integration of DITA to support structured xml authoring (even better with the DITA-FMx plug-in) * Integration with ePublisher Pro and the DITA Open Toolkit to generate a wide variety of output targets: PDF (using FO and RenderX), HTMLHelp, XHTML, Eclipse Help, AIR Help, ... Yves Barbion Documentation Architect Adobe-Certified FrameMaker Instructor Scripto bvba Asselsstraat 65 9031 Gent Belgium T: +32 494 12 01 89 F: +32 9 366 50 23 BTW (VAT) BE 0886.192.394 skype: yves.barbion Matt Sullivan wrote: > Hi Lise, > > As I sit converting 4 FM templates to InDesign templates for a client... > > You're pretty close to the mark with your analysis. > > I tell my clients: > -Frame has more robust referencing > -Frame has more robust numbering > > But at the same time, ID CS3's numbering and referencing is greatly improved > from earlier versions. ID also allows for Para and Character Styles that use > base Para Styles, and for Master Pages that use base Master Pages. > > I've got a separate client happily doing this same conversion, but both > clients do not have extreme XREF issues, nor do they have extremely complex > numbering schemes. The nested styles and the improved Header/Footer > functionality have been pleasant surprises for them. > > Bottom line: For documents requiring a great deal of customization and > layout, I recommend InDesign. For long doc's requiring standardization, > complex numbering, and complex referencing, use FrameMaker. > > Of course, given Frame's improved integration with RoboHelp and Captivate, > these are also potential factors. > > > > -Matt Sullivan > > > > GRAFIX Training, Inc. > > An Adobe Authorized Training Center > > www.grafixtraining.com > > 888 882-2819 > > -Original Message- > From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lise Bible > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 10:34 AM > To: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Subject: FrameMaker vs. InDesign CS3 > > I currently create manuals in FrameMaker for the products that are > manufactured at this location. Deliverable is pdf and printed matter. > > I've been using unstructured FrameMaker 7.1 on Win XP and the marketing > department has been using InDesign CS2 on Win XP. They're planning to > upgrade to CS3. > > I've been asked by the Marketing Manager to investigate whether InDesign CS3 > would meet my needs as a replacement for FrameMaker for product manuals so > we could all be on the same platform. I think if I made the case that there > would be serious functionality lost, he wouldn't have a big problem with me > staying with Frame, but I think he's leaning toward standardizing on ID > unless I can make the case otherwise. > > Things of concern to me that I can do in Frame but not sure about ID: > cross-references, conditional text, auto-numbering. > Conditional text isn't a deal-killer for me; I've used it in a few manuals, > but it's not something I couldn't do without if it wasn't available. > Cross-references (see figure x on page x, see heading on page x) are > currently used extensively. Wouldn't want to do without those. > Auto numbering (esp. of figures (x+1): currently used extensively. Wouldn't > want to do without that either. > > I've done some google searching and the closest I've come to a comparison is > this, but it's a little dated (and refers to OSX) > http://www.fm4osx.org/comp.html > > There was a discussion of this a while back (last Feb, I think) here on the > frameusers forum, but I don't think it covered any new features that may > have been included in ID CS3 as opposed to CS2. > > The version comparison chart on the Adobe site > (there's a link to a pdf here: > http://www.adobe.com/products/indesign/upgrade/) > lists automated bullets and numbering, but I don't know if that will > accommodate what I currently accomplish in Frame with a "Figure" paragraph > format for the figure label which inserts the next consecutive figure number > automatically. > > Has anyone used InDesign CS3 and can give me any insights? > If not available in ID, are there 3rd-party plug-ins for ID that would > accomplish any of these with some kind of elegance and ease? > > Thanks, > Lise Bible > ___ > > > You are currently subscribe
FrameMaker vs. InDesign CS3
Hi, Lisa: There are two InDesign plug-ins you should look into while considering the move to ID from FM. * Cross-References: every bit as good as FM's, plus a few extras, like an option for "on next/previous/this page," if the reference source is on next or same or previous page. Reasonable price for the features it adds to ID. I reviewed this in detail in InDesign Magazine for Oct/Nov 2007. Contact them about buying the issue at www.indesignmag.com/ (must use the full address to avoid being redirected). * MIF2ID: converts FM MIF files to ID files, for a per-page fee. Very fast, very good fidelity for each page/spread. Compared to manual conversion, time saved is repaid many times over. If you have their Cross-References Plug-in installed, FM x-refs are converted. I'm working on a detailed review scheduled for April publication somewhere. Both are made by dtptools.com. I'm completely independent from DTP Tools. Regarding ID's numbered lists vs. FM, nothing lost, except time figuring out how to create counterparts manually. MIF2ID converts them. Matt's point about FM8's integration in the Technical Communications Suite is important if you're working with RoboHelp (now supports FM, again) if you're creating help systems, and Captivate 3 (to record tutorials). ID does support XML, with or without DTD, but not the same way as FM - learning curve ahead. Also, ID doesn't currently support DITA, which FM does. HTH Regards, Peter ___ Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices
FrameMaker vs. InDesign CS3
I currently create manuals in FrameMaker for the products that are manufactured at this location. Deliverable is pdf and printed matter. I've been using unstructured FrameMaker 7.1 on Win XP and the marketing department has been using InDesign CS2 on Win XP. They're planning to upgrade to CS3. I've been asked by the Marketing Manager to investigate whether InDesign CS3 would meet my needs as a replacement for FrameMaker for product manuals so we could all be on the same platform. I think if I made the case that there would be serious functionality lost, he wouldn't have a big problem with me staying with Frame, but I think he's leaning toward standardizing on ID unless I can make the case otherwise. Things of concern to me that I can do in Frame but not sure about ID: cross-references, conditional text, auto-numbering. Conditional text isn't a deal-killer for me; I've used it in a few manuals, but it's not something I couldn't do without if it wasn't available. Cross-references (see figure x on page x, see heading on page x) are currently used extensively. Wouldn't want to do without those. Auto numbering (esp. of figures (x+1): currently used extensively. Wouldn't want to do without that either. I've done some google searching and the closest I've come to a comparison is this, but it's a little dated (and refers to OSX) http://www.fm4osx.org/comp.html There was a discussion of this a while back (last Feb, I think) here on the frameusers forum, but I don't think it covered any new features that may have been included in ID CS3 as opposed to CS2. The version comparison chart on the Adobe site (there's a link to a pdf here: http://www.adobe.com/products/indesign/upgrade/) lists automated bullets and numbering, but I don't know if that will accommodate what I currently accomplish in Frame with a "Figure" paragraph format for the figure label which inserts the next consecutive figure number automatically. Has anyone used InDesign CS3 and can give me any insights? If not available in ID, are there 3rd-party plug-ins for ID that would accomplish any of these with some kind of elegance and ease? Thanks, Lise Bible
Re: FrameMaker vs. InDesign CS3
Hi, Lisa: There are two InDesign plug-ins you should look into while considering the move to ID from FM. * Cross-References: every bit as good as FM's, plus a few extras, like an option for "on next/previous/this page," if the reference source is on next or same or previous page. Reasonable price for the features it adds to ID. I reviewed this in detail in InDesign Magazine for Oct/Nov 2007. Contact them about buying the issue at www.indesignmag.com/ (must use the full address to avoid being redirected). * MIF2ID: converts FM MIF files to ID files, for a per-page fee. Very fast, very good fidelity for each page/spread. Compared to manual conversion, time saved is repaid many times over. If you have their Cross-References Plug-in installed, FM x-refs are converted. I'm working on a detailed review scheduled for April publication somewhere. Both are made by dtptools.com. I'm completely independent from DTP Tools. Regarding ID's numbered lists vs. FM, nothing lost, except time figuring out how to create counterparts manually. MIF2ID converts them. Matt's point about FM8's integration in the Technical Communications Suite is important if you're working with RoboHelp (now supports FM, again) if you're creating help systems, and Captivate 3 (to record tutorials). ID does support XML, with or without DTD, but not the same way as FM - learning curve ahead. Also, ID doesn't currently support DITA, which FM does. HTH Regards, Peter ___ Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: FrameMaker vs. InDesign CS3
Other important arguments in favour of FrameMaker for technical documentation are also: * Tables (especially with the TableCleaner plug-in) * Integration of DITA to support structured xml authoring (even better with the DITA-FMx plug-in) * Integration with ePublisher Pro and the DITA Open Toolkit to generate a wide variety of output targets: PDF (using FO and RenderX), HTMLHelp, XHTML, Eclipse Help, AIR Help, ... Yves Barbion Documentation Architect Adobe-Certified FrameMaker Instructor Scripto bvba Asselsstraat 65 9031 Gent Belgium T: +32 494 12 01 89 F: +32 9 366 50 23 BTW (VAT) BE 0886.192.394 skype: yves.barbion Matt Sullivan wrote: > Hi Lise, > > As I sit converting 4 FM templates to InDesign templates for a client... > > You're pretty close to the mark with your analysis. > > I tell my clients: > -Frame has more robust referencing > -Frame has more robust numbering > > But at the same time, ID CS3's numbering and referencing is greatly improved > from earlier versions. ID also allows for Para and Character Styles that use > base Para Styles, and for Master Pages that use base Master Pages. > > I've got a separate client happily doing this same conversion, but both > clients do not have extreme XREF issues, nor do they have extremely complex > numbering schemes. The nested styles and the improved Header/Footer > functionality have been pleasant surprises for them. > > Bottom line: For documents requiring a great deal of customization and > layout, I recommend InDesign. For long doc's requiring standardization, > complex numbering, and complex referencing, use FrameMaker. > > Of course, given Frame's improved integration with RoboHelp and Captivate, > these are also potential factors. > > > > -Matt Sullivan > > > > GRAFIX Training, Inc. > > An Adobe Authorized Training Center > > www.grafixtraining.com > > 888 882-2819 > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lise Bible > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 10:34 AM > To: framers@lists.frameusers.com > Subject: FrameMaker vs. InDesign CS3 > > I currently create manuals in FrameMaker for the products that are > manufactured at this location. Deliverable is pdf and printed matter. > > I've been using unstructured FrameMaker 7.1 on Win XP and the marketing > department has been using InDesign CS2 on Win XP. They're planning to > upgrade to CS3. > > I've been asked by the Marketing Manager to investigate whether InDesign CS3 > would meet my needs as a replacement for FrameMaker for product manuals so > we could all be on the same platform. I think if I made the case that there > would be serious functionality lost, he wouldn't have a big problem with me > staying with Frame, but I think he's leaning toward standardizing on ID > unless I can make the case otherwise. > > Things of concern to me that I can do in Frame but not sure about ID: > cross-references, conditional text, auto-numbering. > Conditional text isn't a deal-killer for me; I've used it in a few manuals, > but it's not something I couldn't do without if it wasn't available. > Cross-references (see figure x on page x, see heading on page x) are > currently used extensively. Wouldn't want to do without those. > Auto numbering (esp. of figures (x+1): currently used extensively. Wouldn't > want to do without that either. > > I've done some google searching and the closest I've come to a comparison is > this, but it's a little dated (and refers to OSX) > http://www.fm4osx.org/comp.html > > There was a discussion of this a while back (last Feb, I think) here on the > frameusers forum, but I don't think it covered any new features that may > have been included in ID CS3 as opposed to CS2. > > The version comparison chart on the Adobe site > (there's a link to a pdf here: > http://www.adobe.com/products/indesign/upgrade/) > lists automated bullets and numbering, but I don't know if that will > accommodate what I currently accomplish in Frame with a "Figure" paragraph > format for the figure label which inserts the next consecutive figure number > automatically. > > Has anyone used InDesign CS3 and can give me any insights? > If not available in ID, are there 3rd-party plug-ins for ID that would > accomplish any of these with some kind of elegance and ease? > > Thanks, > Lise Bible > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Send list mes
RE: FrameMaker vs. InDesign CS3
Hi Lise, As I sit converting 4 FM templates to InDesign templates for a client... You're pretty close to the mark with your analysis. I tell my clients: -Frame has more robust referencing -Frame has more robust numbering But at the same time, ID CS3's numbering and referencing is greatly improved from earlier versions. ID also allows for Para and Character Styles that use base Para Styles, and for Master Pages that use base Master Pages. I've got a separate client happily doing this same conversion, but both clients do not have extreme XREF issues, nor do they have extremely complex numbering schemes. The nested styles and the improved Header/Footer functionality have been pleasant surprises for them. Bottom line: For documents requiring a great deal of customization and layout, I recommend InDesign. For long doc's requiring standardization, complex numbering, and complex referencing, use FrameMaker. Of course, given Frame's improved integration with RoboHelp and Captivate, these are also potential factors. -Matt Sullivan GRAFIX Training, Inc. An Adobe Authorized Training Center www.grafixtraining.com 888 882-2819 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lise Bible Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 10:34 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: FrameMaker vs. InDesign CS3 I currently create manuals in FrameMaker for the products that are manufactured at this location. Deliverable is pdf and printed matter. I've been using unstructured FrameMaker 7.1 on Win XP and the marketing department has been using InDesign CS2 on Win XP. They're planning to upgrade to CS3. I've been asked by the Marketing Manager to investigate whether InDesign CS3 would meet my needs as a replacement for FrameMaker for product manuals so we could all be on the same platform. I think if I made the case that there would be serious functionality lost, he wouldn't have a big problem with me staying with Frame, but I think he's leaning toward standardizing on ID unless I can make the case otherwise. Things of concern to me that I can do in Frame but not sure about ID: cross-references, conditional text, auto-numbering. Conditional text isn't a deal-killer for me; I've used it in a few manuals, but it's not something I couldn't do without if it wasn't available. Cross-references (see figure x on page x, see heading on page x) are currently used extensively. Wouldn't want to do without those. Auto numbering (esp. of figures (x+1): currently used extensively. Wouldn't want to do without that either. I've done some google searching and the closest I've come to a comparison is this, but it's a little dated (and refers to OSX) http://www.fm4osx.org/comp.html There was a discussion of this a while back (last Feb, I think) here on the frameusers forum, but I don't think it covered any new features that may have been included in ID CS3 as opposed to CS2. The version comparison chart on the Adobe site (there's a link to a pdf here: http://www.adobe.com/products/indesign/upgrade/) lists automated bullets and numbering, but I don't know if that will accommodate what I currently accomplish in Frame with a "Figure" paragraph format for the figure label which inserts the next consecutive figure number automatically. Has anyone used InDesign CS3 and can give me any insights? If not available in ID, are there 3rd-party plug-ins for ID that would accomplish any of these with some kind of elegance and ease? Thanks, Lise Bible ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/matt%40grafixtraining.co m Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
FrameMaker vs. InDesign CS3
Hi Lise, As I sit converting 4 FM templates to InDesign templates for a client... You're pretty close to the mark with your analysis. I tell my clients: -Frame has more robust referencing -Frame has more robust numbering But at the same time, ID CS3's numbering and referencing is greatly improved from earlier versions. ID also allows for Para and Character Styles that use base Para Styles, and for Master Pages that use base Master Pages. I've got a separate client happily doing this same conversion, but both clients do not have extreme XREF issues, nor do they have extremely complex numbering schemes. The nested styles and the improved Header/Footer functionality have been pleasant surprises for them. Bottom line: For documents requiring a great deal of customization and layout, I recommend InDesign. For long doc's requiring standardization, complex numbering, and complex referencing, use FrameMaker. Of course, given Frame's improved integration with RoboHelp and Captivate, these are also potential factors. -Matt Sullivan GRAFIX Training, Inc. An Adobe Authorized Training Center www.grafixtraining.com 888 882-2819 -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lise Bible Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 10:34 AM To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: FrameMaker vs. InDesign CS3 I currently create manuals in FrameMaker for the products that are manufactured at this location. Deliverable is pdf and printed matter. I've been using unstructured FrameMaker 7.1 on Win XP and the marketing department has been using InDesign CS2 on Win XP. They're planning to upgrade to CS3. I've been asked by the Marketing Manager to investigate whether InDesign CS3 would meet my needs as a replacement for FrameMaker for product manuals so we could all be on the same platform. I think if I made the case that there would be serious functionality lost, he wouldn't have a big problem with me staying with Frame, but I think he's leaning toward standardizing on ID unless I can make the case otherwise. Things of concern to me that I can do in Frame but not sure about ID: cross-references, conditional text, auto-numbering. Conditional text isn't a deal-killer for me; I've used it in a few manuals, but it's not something I couldn't do without if it wasn't available. Cross-references (see figure x on page x, see heading on page x) are currently used extensively. Wouldn't want to do without those. Auto numbering (esp. of figures (x+1): currently used extensively. Wouldn't want to do without that either. I've done some google searching and the closest I've come to a comparison is this, but it's a little dated (and refers to OSX) http://www.fm4osx.org/comp.html There was a discussion of this a while back (last Feb, I think) here on the frameusers forum, but I don't think it covered any new features that may have been included in ID CS3 as opposed to CS2. The version comparison chart on the Adobe site (there's a link to a pdf here: http://www.adobe.com/products/indesign/upgrade/) lists automated bullets and numbering, but I don't know if that will accommodate what I currently accomplish in Frame with a "Figure" paragraph format for the figure label which inserts the next consecutive figure number automatically. Has anyone used InDesign CS3 and can give me any insights? If not available in ID, are there 3rd-party plug-ins for ID that would accomplish any of these with some kind of elegance and ease? Thanks, Lise Bible ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as matt at grafixtraining.com. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/matt%40grafixtraining.co m Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
FrameMaker vs. InDesign CS3
I currently create manuals in FrameMaker for the products that are manufactured at this location. Deliverable is pdf and printed matter. I've been using unstructured FrameMaker 7.1 on Win XP and the marketing department has been using InDesign CS2 on Win XP. They're planning to upgrade to CS3. I've been asked by the Marketing Manager to investigate whether InDesign CS3 would meet my needs as a replacement for FrameMaker for product manuals so we could all be on the same platform. I think if I made the case that there would be serious functionality lost, he wouldn't have a big problem with me staying with Frame, but I think he's leaning toward standardizing on ID unless I can make the case otherwise. Things of concern to me that I can do in Frame but not sure about ID: cross-references, conditional text, auto-numbering. Conditional text isn't a deal-killer for me; I've used it in a few manuals, but it's not something I couldn't do without if it wasn't available. Cross-references (see figure x on page x, see heading on page x) are currently used extensively. Wouldn't want to do without those. Auto numbering (esp. of figures (x+1): currently used extensively. Wouldn't want to do without that either. I've done some google searching and the closest I've come to a comparison is this, but it's a little dated (and refers to OSX) http://www.fm4osx.org/comp.html There was a discussion of this a while back (last Feb, I think) here on the frameusers forum, but I don't think it covered any new features that may have been included in ID CS3 as opposed to CS2. The version comparison chart on the Adobe site (there's a link to a pdf here: http://www.adobe.com/products/indesign/upgrade/) lists automated bullets and numbering, but I don't know if that will accommodate what I currently accomplish in Frame with a "Figure" paragraph format for the figure label which inserts the next consecutive figure number automatically. Has anyone used InDesign CS3 and can give me any insights? If not available in ID, are there 3rd-party plug-ins for ID that would accomplish any of these with some kind of elegance and ease? Thanks, Lise Bible ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
