OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
The writer should read it over, but IMHO someone else should also read it. It's hard for the same person to catch all the mistakes and ambiguities. Regards, Shmuel Wolfson Steve Rickaby wrote: > An interesting discussion, and you all make very valid points. Here in the UK > some of the folks I work with still make the traditional distinction between > copy-editing and proofreading that dates from the days of hot metal. However, > the terms are becoming blurred, and this is causing some confusion. > > This confusion become damaging when it results in a final production process > that misses the fact that the proofer has no content knowledge. It also leads > to the question of whether *copy-editing* can be performed in any effective > way by someone without content knowledge: my contention is 'no', but in fact > this is often what happens... 'copy-editing' is confused with 'proofreading'. > > I believe that it *is* possible to effectively edit and proof your own work, > but it is hard, and requires a substantial mind-shift. I agree that it is > certainly not desirable, but sometimes it cannot be avoided for cost or other > reasons. > > Story: some time ago I was commissioned to write a book. After writing it, I > lightly copy-edited it as time allowed. The publisher then sent the Ms to a > trained freelance proofreader (or, as I thought, copy-editor). I applied > their corrections. Some time later I was reworking the material and found > some glaring errors, so I carried out a complete reproof and analysis. I was > quite shocked at the number of undiscovered errors I found. Some were typos, > some were technical. It turned out that the proofreader had little or no > understanding of the content. > > I suppose the moral is that sometimes things don't turn out as you expect > even if you do everything 'right'. > >
RE: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
I think that their are two kinds of Technical Proofing/Editing. 1. Technical/Functional Editing - This is performed by the SME. It is to check that all of your technical facts are correct. This could be QA engineers, Software Programmers, or like at my company, PH.D scientists. (Most of the people in this category, at my company, are ESL and cannot check the English.) 2. Writing Editing - This is performed by another Technical Writer or an Editor. It is to check your English (or whatever language you write in), grammar, spelling, flow and technical writing. (Most of the people in this category, at my company, are not Engineers and can't check the facts, only the writing). Both sets of people need to proof your docs and check for what falls under their expertise. Thank you, Gillian Flato -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shmuel Wolfson Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 5:30 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing? The writer should read it over, but IMHO someone else should also read it. It's hard for the same person to catch all the mistakes and ambiguities. Regards, Shmuel Wolfson Steve Rickaby wrote: > An interesting discussion, and you all make very valid points. Here in the UK some of the folks I work with still make the traditional distinction between copy-editing and proofreading that dates from the days of hot metal. However, the terms are becoming blurred, and this is causing some confusion. > > This confusion become damaging when it results in a final production process that misses the fact that the proofer has no content knowledge. It also leads to the question of whether *copy-editing* can be performed in any effective way by someone without content knowledge: my contention is 'no', but in fact this is often what happens... 'copy-editing' is confused with 'proofreading'. > > I believe that it *is* possible to effectively edit and proof your own work, but it is hard, and requires a substantial mind-shift. I agree that it is certainly not desirable, but sometimes it cannot be avoided for cost or other reasons. > > Story: some time ago I was commissioned to write a book. After writing it, I lightly copy-edited it as time allowed. The publisher then sent the Ms to a trained freelance proofreader (or, as I thought, copy-editor). I applied their corrections. Some time later I was reworking the material and found some glaring errors, so I carried out a complete reproof and analysis. I was quite shocked at the number of undiscovered errors I found. Some were typos, some were technical. It turned out that the proofreader had little or no understanding of the content. > > I suppose the moral is that sometimes things don't turn out as you expect even if you do everything 'right'. > > ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/gflato%40nanometrics .com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. This message (including any attachments) may contain confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose. If you are not the intended recipient, delete this message. If you are not the intended recipient, disclosing, copying, distributing, or taking any action based on this message is strictly prohibited. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
I think that their are two kinds of Technical Proofing/Editing. 1. Technical/Functional Editing - This is performed by the SME. It is to check that all of your technical facts are correct. This could be QA engineers, Software Programmers, or like at my company, PH.D scientists. (Most of the people in this category, at my company, are ESL and cannot check the English.) 2. Writing Editing - This is performed by another Technical Writer or an Editor. It is to check your English (or whatever language you write in), grammar, spelling, flow and technical writing. (Most of the people in this category, at my company, are not Engineers and can't check the facts, only the writing). Both sets of people need to proof your docs and check for what falls under their expertise. Thank you, Gillian Flato -Original Message- From: framers-bounces+gflato=nanometrics@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces+gflato=nanometrics.com at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Shmuel Wolfson Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 5:30 AM To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing? The writer should read it over, but IMHO someone else should also read it. It's hard for the same person to catch all the mistakes and ambiguities. Regards, Shmuel Wolfson Steve Rickaby wrote: > An interesting discussion, and you all make very valid points. Here in the UK some of the folks I work with still make the traditional distinction between copy-editing and proofreading that dates from the days of hot metal. However, the terms are becoming blurred, and this is causing some confusion. > > This confusion become damaging when it results in a final production process that misses the fact that the proofer has no content knowledge. It also leads to the question of whether *copy-editing* can be performed in any effective way by someone without content knowledge: my contention is 'no', but in fact this is often what happens... 'copy-editing' is confused with 'proofreading'. > > I believe that it *is* possible to effectively edit and proof your own work, but it is hard, and requires a substantial mind-shift. I agree that it is certainly not desirable, but sometimes it cannot be avoided for cost or other reasons. > > Story: some time ago I was commissioned to write a book. After writing it, I lightly copy-edited it as time allowed. The publisher then sent the Ms to a trained freelance proofreader (or, as I thought, copy-editor). I applied their corrections. Some time later I was reworking the material and found some glaring errors, so I carried out a complete reproof and analysis. I was quite shocked at the number of undiscovered errors I found. Some were typos, some were technical. It turned out that the proofreader had little or no understanding of the content. > > I suppose the moral is that sometimes things don't turn out as you expect even if you do everything 'right'. > > ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as gflato at nanometrics.com. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/gflato%40nanometrics .com Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. This message (including any attachments) may contain confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose. If you are not the intended recipient, delete this message. If you are not the intended recipient, disclosing, copying, distributing, or taking any action based on this message is strictly prohibited.
Re: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
The writer should read it over, but IMHO someone else should also read it. It's hard for the same person to catch all the mistakes and ambiguities. Regards, Shmuel Wolfson Steve Rickaby wrote: An interesting discussion, and you all make very valid points. Here in the UK some of the folks I work with still make the traditional distinction between copy-editing and proofreading that dates from the days of hot metal. However, the terms are becoming blurred, and this is causing some confusion. This confusion become damaging when it results in a final production process that misses the fact that the proofer has no content knowledge. It also leads to the question of whether *copy-editing* can be performed in any effective way by someone without content knowledge: my contention is 'no', but in fact this is often what happens... 'copy-editing' is confused with 'proofreading'. I believe that it *is* possible to effectively edit and proof your own work, but it is hard, and requires a substantial mind-shift. I agree that it is certainly not desirable, but sometimes it cannot be avoided for cost or other reasons. Story: some time ago I was commissioned to write a book. After writing it, I lightly copy-edited it as time allowed. The publisher then sent the Ms to a trained freelance proofreader (or, as I thought, copy-editor). I applied their corrections. Some time later I was reworking the material and found some glaring errors, so I carried out a complete reproof and analysis. I was quite shocked at the number of undiscovered errors I found. Some were typos, some were technical. It turned out that the proofreader had little or no understanding of the content. I suppose the moral is that sometimes things don't turn out as you expect even if you do everything 'right'. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
An interesting discussion, and you all make very valid points. Here in the UK some of the folks I work with still make the traditional distinction between copy-editing and proofreading that dates from the days of hot metal. However, the terms are becoming blurred, and this is causing some confusion. This confusion become damaging when it results in a final production process that misses the fact that the proofer has no content knowledge. It also leads to the question of whether *copy-editing* can be performed in any effective way by someone without content knowledge: my contention is 'no', but in fact this is often what happens... 'copy-editing' is confused with 'proofreading'. I believe that it *is* possible to effectively edit and proof your own work, but it is hard, and requires a substantial mind-shift. I agree that it is certainly not desirable, but sometimes it cannot be avoided for cost or other reasons. Story: some time ago I was commissioned to write a book. After writing it, I lightly copy-edited it as time allowed. The publisher then sent the Ms to a trained freelance proofreader (or, as I thought, copy-editor). I applied their corrections. Some time later I was reworking the material and found some glaring errors, so I carried out a complete reproof and analysis. I was quite shocked at the number of undiscovered errors I found. Some were typos, some were technical. It turned out that the proofreader had little or no understanding of the content. I suppose the moral is that sometimes things don't turn out as you expect even if you do everything 'right'. -- Steve
RE: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
An interesting discussion, and you all make very valid points. Here in the UK some of the folks I work with still make the traditional distinction between copy-editing and proofreading that dates from the days of hot metal. However, the terms are becoming blurred, and this is causing some confusion. This confusion become damaging when it results in a final production process that misses the fact that the proofer has no content knowledge. It also leads to the question of whether *copy-editing* can be performed in any effective way by someone without content knowledge: my contention is 'no', but in fact this is often what happens... 'copy-editing' is confused with 'proofreading'. I believe that it *is* possible to effectively edit and proof your own work, but it is hard, and requires a substantial mind-shift. I agree that it is certainly not desirable, but sometimes it cannot be avoided for cost or other reasons. Story: some time ago I was commissioned to write a book. After writing it, I lightly copy-edited it as time allowed. The publisher then sent the Ms to a trained freelance proofreader (or, as I thought, copy-editor). I applied their corrections. Some time later I was reworking the material and found some glaring errors, so I carried out a complete reproof and analysis. I was quite shocked at the number of undiscovered errors I found. Some were typos, some were technical. It turned out that the proofreader had little or no understanding of the content. I suppose the moral is that sometimes things don't turn out as you expect even if you do everything 'right'. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
Good Day Art and Natalie, If you are looking at only spelling and grammar, perhaps. However, the problems encountered at our site deal more with content (complete procedures, no link from the help file to an application's Help buttons, lack of option and data column descriptions, and more) and the structure of documents. A couple of years ago our expert (of spelling and grammer) reviewed a contractor's publication and offered a couple of comments. What the expert had missed was the description of the software application was backwards of the application's actual purpose and operation. Afraid I must say that proofing a document depends upon the purpose of that proofing. Best, Denise L. Moss-Fritch -- Original message -- From: "Art Campbell" > In practical terms, it should be the person who gets zinged if there's > a mistake and/or the person in the organization with the best spelling > and grammar skills. > > If you're asking a process question, I'd say no, it should never be > the writer because he/she has looked at the copy too much to look at > it with fresh eyes. > > But back in practical terms, if the writer is the best speller / > grammarian, he/she is likely to get stuck with the job. > > Art > > > > On 12/15/06, Natalie Bircher wrote: > > This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as > > writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the > > documents you write? Should it ever be the writer?
RE: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
Fred, I agree with your philosophy. Of course we all try to do our best to write it right the first time, but things will escape us, and there will always be "better choices" that could be made (such as a more common example). The writer should definitely do a spell check and re-read what they have written to look for best word usage/punctuation/capitalization issues. Also check for spacing and graphics issues. We will probably agree that SMEs should be available to check for content and usage. In our company, the trainer determines the order of the topics, so they would check that. I would also maintain that other English-major-types look at the doc for structure, consistency of style and format and double-check for punctuation, spelling and capitalization. It seems that the only time anyone here disagrees with this, is when an error slips through. Then out comes the tar and feathers for the writer...never for the other FIVE people who looked at it. ? -Original Message- From: Ridder, Fred [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 3:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Art Campbell; Natalie Bircher Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing? What you have described is much deeper than what I would call proofreading. I would put some it under the heading of SME content review (which shouldn't get sidetracked in issues of grammar or punctuation), and most of it under editing (which really has several of its own subcategories). No one set of eyes is ever going to pick up all classes of errors and issues. And if the number of different people available to review/edit/proofread a document is limited, you'll still get better results if those people do multiple passes through the document with a limited scope for each pass. My opinions only; I don't speak for Intel. Fred Ridder (fred dot ridder at intel dot com) Intel Parsippany, NJ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 3:19 PM To: Art Campbell; Natalie Bircher Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing? Good Day Art and Natalie, If you are looking at only spelling and grammar, perhaps. However, the problems encountered at our site deal more with content (complete procedures, no link from the help file to an application's Help buttons, lack of option and data column descriptions, and more) and the structure of documents. A couple of years ago our expert (of spelling and grammer) reviewed a contractor's publication and offered a couple of comments. What the expert had missed was the description of the software application was backwards of the application's actual purpose and operation. Afraid I must say that proofing a document depends upon the purpose of that proofing. Best, Denise L. Moss-Fritch -- Original message -- From: "Art Campbell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > In practical terms, it should be the person who gets zinged if there's > a mistake and/or the person in the organization with the best spelling > and grammar skills. > > If you're asking a process question, I'd say no, it should never be > the writer because he/she has looked at the copy too much to look at > it with fresh eyes. > > But back in practical terms, if the writer is the best speller / > grammarian, he/she is likely to get stuck with the job. > > Art > > > > On 12/15/06, Natalie Bircher wrote: > > This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as > > writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the > > documents you write? Should it ever be the writer? ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/fred.ridder%40intel. com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
What you have described is much deeper than what I would call proofreading. I would put some it under the heading of SME content review (which shouldn't get sidetracked in issues of grammar or punctuation), and most of it under editing (which really has several of its own subcategories). No one set of eyes is ever going to pick up all classes of errors and issues. And if the number of different people available to review/edit/proofread a document is limited, you'll still get better results if those people do multiple passes through the document with a limited scope for each pass. My opinions only; I don't speak for Intel. Fred Ridder (fred dot ridder at intel dot com) Intel Parsippany, NJ -Original Message- From: framers-bounces+fred.ridder=intel@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces+fred.ridder=intel.com at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of d.mossfritch at comcast.net Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 3:19 PM To: Art Campbell; Natalie Bircher Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing? Good Day Art and Natalie, If you are looking at only spelling and grammar, perhaps. However, the problems encountered at our site deal more with content (complete procedures, no link from the help file to an application's Help buttons, lack of option and data column descriptions, and more) and the structure of documents. A couple of years ago our expert (of spelling and grammer) reviewed a contractor's publication and offered a couple of comments. What the expert had missed was the description of the software application was backwards of the application's actual purpose and operation. Afraid I must say that proofing a document depends upon the purpose of that proofing. Best, Denise L. Moss-Fritch -- Original message -- From: "Art Campbell" > In practical terms, it should be the person who gets zinged if there's > a mistake and/or the person in the organization with the best spelling > and grammar skills. > > If you're asking a process question, I'd say no, it should never be > the writer because he/she has looked at the copy too much to look at > it with fresh eyes. > > But back in practical terms, if the writer is the best speller / > grammarian, he/she is likely to get stuck with the job. > > Art > > > > On 12/15/06, Natalie Bircher wrote: > > This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as > > writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the > > documents you write? Should it ever be the writer? ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as fred.ridder at intel.com. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/fred.ridder%40intel. com Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
Denise, I don't totally disagree with your contention, but proofreading is one thing... and content / structural editing, fact-checking, and quality assurance, the topics that you touch upon are something else. I'm intentionally defining "proofreading" in a narrow, traditional way. The problems that you related are much more basic and mechanical... they should all be resolved before proofreading takes place, IMHO. Making sure the quality is built in is a continuous process that needs attention from the beginning of the project; you can't do it at the last minute. Cheers, Art On 12/15/06, d.mossfritch at comcast.net wrote: > > Good Day Art and Natalie, > > If you are looking at only spelling and grammar, perhaps. However, the > problems encountered at our site deal more with content (complete > procedures, no link from the help file to an application's Help buttons, > lack of option and data column descriptions, and more) and the structure of > documents. > > A couple of years ago our expert (of spelling and grammer) reviewed a > contractor's publication and offered a couple of comments. What the expert > had missed was the description of the software application was backwards of > the application's actual purpose and operation. > > Afraid I must say that proofing a document depends upon the purpose of that > proofing. > > Best, > > Denise L. Moss-Fritch > > -- Original message -- > From: "Art Campbell" > > > In practical terms, it should be the person who gets zinged if there's > > a mistake and/or the person in the organization with the best spelling > > and grammar skills. > > > > If you're asking a process question, I'd say no, it should never be > > the writer because he/she has looked at the copy too much to look at > > it with fresh eyes. > > > > But back in practical terms, if the writer is the best speller / > > grammarian, he/she is likely to get stuck with the job. > > > > Art > > > > > > > > On 12/15/06, Natalie Bircher wrote: > > > This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as > > > writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofin g of the > > > documents you write? Should it ever be the writer? > -- Art Campbell art.campbell at gmail.com "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358
OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
Fred, I agree with your philosophy. Of course we all try to do our best to write it right the first time, but things will escape us, and there will always be "better choices" that could be made (such as a more common example). The writer should definitely do a spell check and re-read what they have written to look for best word usage/punctuation/capitalization issues. Also check for spacing and graphics issues. We will probably agree that SMEs should be available to check for content and usage. In our company, the trainer determines the order of the topics, so they would check that. I would also maintain that other English-major-types look at the doc for structure, consistency of style and format and double-check for punctuation, spelling and capitalization. It seems that the only time anyone here disagrees with this, is when an error slips through. Then out comes the tar and feathers for the writer...never for the other FIVE people who looked at it. ? -Original Message- From: Ridder, Fred [mailto:fred.rid...@intel.com] Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 3:31 PM To: d.mossfritch at comcast.net; Art Campbell; Natalie Bircher Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing? What you have described is much deeper than what I would call proofreading. I would put some it under the heading of SME content review (which shouldn't get sidetracked in issues of grammar or punctuation), and most of it under editing (which really has several of its own subcategories). No one set of eyes is ever going to pick up all classes of errors and issues. And if the number of different people available to review/edit/proofread a document is limited, you'll still get better results if those people do multiple passes through the document with a limited scope for each pass. My opinions only; I don't speak for Intel. Fred Ridder (fred dot ridder at intel dot com) Intel Parsippany, NJ -Original Message- From: framers-bounces+fred.ridder=intel@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces+fred.ridder=intel.com at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of d.mossfritch at comcast.net Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 3:19 PM To: Art Campbell; Natalie Bircher Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing? Good Day Art and Natalie, If you are looking at only spelling and grammar, perhaps. However, the problems encountered at our site deal more with content (complete procedures, no link from the help file to an application's Help buttons, lack of option and data column descriptions, and more) and the structure of documents. A couple of years ago our expert (of spelling and grammer) reviewed a contractor's publication and offered a couple of comments. What the expert had missed was the description of the software application was backwards of the application's actual purpose and operation. Afraid I must say that proofing a document depends upon the purpose of that proofing. Best, Denise L. Moss-Fritch -- Original message -- From: "Art Campbell" > In practical terms, it should be the person who gets zinged if there's > a mistake and/or the person in the organization with the best spelling > and grammar skills. > > If you're asking a process question, I'd say no, it should never be > the writer because he/she has looked at the copy too much to look at > it with fresh eyes. > > But back in practical terms, if the writer is the best speller / > grammarian, he/she is likely to get stuck with the job. > > Art > > > > On 12/15/06, Natalie Bircher wrote: > > This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as > > writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the > > documents you write? Should it ever be the writer? ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as fred.ridder at intel.com. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/fred.ridder%40intel. com Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
I am a lone writer, so I am ultimately responsible for the docs. I have no editor, proofreader, or any suport whatever. I try to get someone from QA to go over everything, but that seldom happens. Even when it does, I go over it myself. The problem is that a non-writer can get quite exhausted and careless or resentful looking at every character, while a trained writer can skim a lot and focus on the places most likely to have problems. When you are responsible for 14 books and 6 online helps and a bunch of small end-user documents and other auxiliary docs, it really is quicker for the writer to do it, if s/he can develop the discipline. From: framers-bounces+jsgammato=imprivata@lists.frameusers.com on behalf of Natalie Bircher Sent: Fri 12/15/2006 2:29 PM To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing? This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the documents you write? Should it ever be the writer? Natalie Bircher Documentation Specialist Dairyland Healthcare Solutions Phone: 320-634-3841 Fax: 320-634-1349 Email: natalie.bircher at dhsnet.com This information is confidential and is for the use of the intended recipient only. Any improper use of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please reply to the sender immediately and delete this communication. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as jsgammato at imprivata.com. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jsgammato%40imprivata.com Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
Hi Natalie, It is bad practice for a writer or typesetter to proofread their own work. I worked at one shop where you would get fired for doing so. You always handed the document off to a professional staff proofreader. Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing 585-659-8267 www.frameexpert.com This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the documents you write? Should it ever be the writer? Natalie Bircher Documentation Specialist Dairyland Healthcare Solutions Phone: 320-634-3841 Fax: 320-634-1349 Email: natalie.bircher at dhsnet.com
OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
In practical terms, it should be the person who gets zinged if there's a mistake and/or the person in the organization with the best spelling and grammar skills. If you're asking a process question, I'd say no, it should never be the writer because he/she has looked at the copy too much to look at it with fresh eyes. But back in practical terms, if the writer is the best speller / grammarian, he/she is likely to get stuck with the job. Art On 12/15/06, Natalie Bircher wrote: > This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as > writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the > documents you write? Should it ever be the writer? > > > -- Art Campbell art.campbell at gmail.com "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358
RE: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
What you have described is much deeper than what I would call proofreading. I would put some it under the heading of SME content review (which shouldn't get sidetracked in issues of grammar or punctuation), and most of it under editing (which really has several of its own subcategories). No one set of eyes is ever going to pick up all classes of errors and issues. And if the number of different people available to review/edit/proofread a document is limited, you'll still get better results if those people do multiple passes through the document with a limited scope for each pass. My opinions only; I don't speak for Intel. Fred Ridder (fred dot ridder at intel dot com) Intel Parsippany, NJ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 3:19 PM To: Art Campbell; Natalie Bircher Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing? Good Day Art and Natalie, If you are looking at only spelling and grammar, perhaps. However, the problems encountered at our site deal more with content (complete procedures, no link from the help file to an application's Help buttons, lack of option and data column descriptions, and more) and the structure of documents. A couple of years ago our expert (of spelling and grammer) reviewed a contractor's publication and offered a couple of comments. What the expert had missed was the description of the software application was backwards of the application's actual purpose and operation. Afraid I must say that proofing a document depends upon the purpose of that proofing. Best, Denise L. Moss-Fritch -- Original message -- From: "Art Campbell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > In practical terms, it should be the person who gets zinged if there's > a mistake and/or the person in the organization with the best spelling > and grammar skills. > > If you're asking a process question, I'd say no, it should never be > the writer because he/she has looked at the copy too much to look at > it with fresh eyes. > > But back in practical terms, if the writer is the best speller / > grammarian, he/she is likely to get stuck with the job. > > Art > > > > On 12/15/06, Natalie Bircher wrote: > > This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as > > writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the > > documents you write? Should it ever be the writer? ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/fred.ridder%40intel. com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the documents you write? Should it ever be the writer? Natalie Bircher Documentation Specialist Dairyland Healthcare Solutions Phone: 320-634-3841 Fax: 320-634-1349 Email: natalie.bircher at dhsnet.com This information is confidential and is for the use of the intended recipient only. Any improper use of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please reply to the sender immediately and delete this communication.
Re: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
Denise, I don't totally disagree with your contention, but proofreading is one thing... and content / structural editing, fact-checking, and quality assurance, the topics that you touch upon are something else. I'm intentionally defining "proofreading" in a narrow, traditional way. The problems that you related are much more basic and mechanical... they should all be resolved before proofreading takes place, IMHO. Making sure the quality is built in is a continuous process that needs attention from the beginning of the project; you can't do it at the last minute. Cheers, Art On 12/15/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Good Day Art and Natalie, If you are looking at only spelling and grammar, perhaps. However, the problems encountered at our site deal more with content (complete procedures, no link from the help file to an application's Help buttons, lack of option and data column descriptions, and more) and the structure of documents. A couple of years ago our expert (of spelling and grammer) reviewed a contractor's publication and offered a couple of comments. What the expert had missed was the description of the software application was backwards of the application's actual purpose and operation. Afraid I must say that proofing a document depends upon the purpose of that proofing. Best, Denise L. Moss-Fritch -- Original message -- From: "Art Campbell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > In practical terms, it should be the person who gets zinged if there's > a mistake and/or the person in the organization with the best spelling > and grammar skills. > > If you're asking a process question, I'd say no, it should never be > the writer because he/she has looked at the copy too much to look at > it with fresh eyes. > > But back in practical terms, if the writer is the best speller / > grammarian, he/she is likely to get stuck with the job. > > Art > > > > On 12/15/06, Natalie Bircher wrote: > > This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as > > writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofin g of the > > documents you write? Should it ever be the writer? -- Art Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED] "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
I am a lone writer, so I am ultimately responsible for the docs. I have no editor, proofreader, or any suport whatever. I try to get someone from QA to go over everything, but that seldom happens. Even when it does, I go over it myself. The problem is that a non-writer can get quite exhausted and careless or resentful looking at every character, while a trained writer can skim a lot and focus on the places most likely to have problems. When you are responsible for 14 books and 6 online helps and a bunch of small end-user documents and other auxiliary docs, it really is quicker for the writer to do it, if s/he can develop the discipline. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Natalie Bircher Sent: Fri 12/15/2006 2:29 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing? This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the documents you write? Should it ever be the writer? Natalie Bircher Documentation Specialist Dairyland Healthcare Solutions Phone: 320-634-3841 Fax: 320-634-1349 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This information is confidential and is for the use of the intended recipient only. Any improper use of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please reply to the sender immediately and delete this communication. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jsgammato%40imprivata.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
Good Day Art and Natalie, If you are looking at only spelling and grammar, perhaps. However, the problems encountered at our site deal more with content (complete procedures, no link from the help file to an application's Help buttons, lack of option and data column descriptions, and more) and the structure of documents. A couple of years ago our expert (of spelling and grammer) reviewed a contractor's publication and offered a couple of comments. What the expert had missed was the description of the software application was backwards of the application's actual purpose and operation. Afraid I must say that proofing a document depends upon the purpose of that proofing. Best, Denise L. Moss-Fritch -- Original message -- From: "Art Campbell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > In practical terms, it should be the person who gets zinged if there's > a mistake and/or the person in the organization with the best spelling > and grammar skills. > > If you're asking a process question, I'd say no, it should never be > the writer because he/she has looked at the copy too much to look at > it with fresh eyes. > > But back in practical terms, if the writer is the best speller / > grammarian, he/she is likely to get stuck with the job. > > Art > > > > On 12/15/06, Natalie Bircher wrote: > > This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as > > writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the > > documents you write? Should it ever be the writer? ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
Hi Natalie, It is bad practice for a writer or typesetter to proofread their own work. I worked at one shop where you would get fired for doing so. You always handed the document off to a professional staff proofreader. Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing 585-659-8267 www.frameexpert.com This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the documents you write? Should it ever be the writer? Natalie Bircher Documentation Specialist Dairyland Healthcare Solutions Phone: 320-634-3841 Fax: 320-634-1349 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
In practical terms, it should be the person who gets zinged if there's a mistake and/or the person in the organization with the best spelling and grammar skills. If you're asking a process question, I'd say no, it should never be the writer because he/she has looked at the copy too much to look at it with fresh eyes. But back in practical terms, if the writer is the best speller / grammarian, he/she is likely to get stuck with the job. Art On 12/15/06, Natalie Bircher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the documents you write? Should it ever be the writer? -- Art Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED] "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the documents you write? Should it ever be the writer? Natalie Bircher Documentation Specialist Dairyland Healthcare Solutions Phone: 320-634-3841 Fax: 320-634-1349 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This information is confidential and is for the use of the intended recipient only. Any improper use of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please reply to the sender immediately and delete this communication. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
