Pagemaker to FrameMaker conversion
Carol J. Elkins wrote : > I suggested to my client that we might convert the doc to FrameMaker > and have a "professional" manage revisions to the Spanish > version. That would, > at first glimpse, be a better idea than having my FrameMaker version > translated to Spanish. So my query is really just a > preliminary first pass > at what I might need to consider if I make a recommendation > to my client. If you do that, you'd have to manually maintain the Spanish version independently of the English version, which is rather error-prone. The conventional way is to maintain the English version, and use a translation tool (see below) to translate each update of this version to Spanish. This takes less work, and makes sure the English and Spanish versions have the same content. > I've never heard the term "translation memory," so I don't > know what to do > with your comments that used it. Can you explain it a bit more? Many translators use 'computer aided translation' tools like Trados and Deja Vu. You import your document into the tool and translate it there, and it keeps a record of what has been translated. This is the translation memory. Once the translation is finished, you export the book from the tool (back to FrameMaker). All the layout elements and graphics from the original book will be transferred automatically by the tool, so you end up with a Spanish version that looks identical to the English version. If you later want to translate a similar book (like an updated version), you can import it into the tool, and it will compare the document to its memory. Every sentence it finds in the memory is automatically supplied, so the translator only has to worry about translating the new content. Another advantage of these tools is that the translator no longer needs Pagemaker, FrameMaker etc. She only needs to use the translation tool, which makes it easier to find translators who can handle your book. Harro de Jong
RE: Pagemaker to FrameMaker conversion
Carol J. Elkins wrote : > I suggested to my client that we might convert the doc to FrameMaker > and have a "professional" manage revisions to the Spanish > version. That would, > at first glimpse, be a better idea than having my FrameMaker version > translated to Spanish. So my query is really just a > preliminary first pass > at what I might need to consider if I make a recommendation > to my client. If you do that, you'd have to manually maintain the Spanish version independently of the English version, which is rather error-prone. The conventional way is to maintain the English version, and use a translation tool (see below) to translate each update of this version to Spanish. This takes less work, and makes sure the English and Spanish versions have the same content. > I've never heard the term "translation memory," so I don't > know what to do > with your comments that used it. Can you explain it a bit more? Many translators use 'computer aided translation' tools like Trados and Deja Vu. You import your document into the tool and translate it there, and it keeps a record of what has been translated. This is the translation memory. Once the translation is finished, you export the book from the tool (back to FrameMaker). All the layout elements and graphics from the original book will be transferred automatically by the tool, so you end up with a Spanish version that looks identical to the English version. If you later want to translate a similar book (like an updated version), you can import it into the tool, and it will compare the document to its memory. Every sentence it finds in the memory is automatically supplied, so the translator only has to worry about translating the new content. Another advantage of these tools is that the translator no longer needs Pagemaker, FrameMaker etc. She only needs to use the translation tool, which makes it easier to find translators who can handle your book. Harro de Jong ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Pagemaker to FrameMaker conversion
Carol J. Elkins wrote: > > 1. Has anyone successfully converted from PageMaker to FrameMaker and, if > so, what were the gotchas? Reasonably successful, FM can import PM files directly. But... 1. Provided the original document uses properly formatted text and everything is in one flow, otherwise some text can be lost. 2. Image data can be quite challenging, depending on your platform, and whether you are swapping platforms at the same time. 3. Tabular data that has been created using Adobe Table is a real pain. To get around the problems in 1-3 above I PDFd the original documents. This gave me something to compare once the translation has been done. Vector art images were extracted from the PDF using Illustrator. Raster images need to be treateed on a case by case basis depending on the original file format, but mostly I was able to select the image data from the PDF in Acrobat and paste that into Photoshop. Tabular data can be copied from the PDF or exported as TXT (real drag if there are a lot of tables). If the originator was undisciplined you might find a lot of strange formats that are brought into FM, or worse, Word formats. To fix these I have used Paragraph Tools and Character Tools. Then gone back through them all and assigned correct formats. Obviously this meant creating a template first and importing the page, paragraph, character, etc. styles into each converted chapter before tryin gto clean it all up. There is a lot of work in the worst case, but can be straightforward if the originator knew what they were doing. > 2. Can anyone recommend a translation vendor who could manage this conversion? > > No, sorry. I can do conversion but not translation. Cheers Alan Litchfield
Pagemaker to FrameMaker conversion
> It seems to me that it would be relatively easy for a Spanish > speaker to replace the English text in your FM files with the > corresponding Spanish text (assuming the existing > translations are of good quality). Just pasting plain text > and applying pgf and char tags as you go should go fairly > quickly. The callouts will simply have to be redone properly > -- but you have the translated wording to work from. > > The result would be a Spanish FM book that matched your > English FM book > -- not just in appearance/layout, but in all the "plumbing" > -- graphics, xrefs, variables, running headers/footers, > generated lists, etc. I suspect that result would be at best > very difficult and time-consuming to achieve if you start > from the PM version. Is there a reason not to handle this with conditional text? Is it because of the length of the book, or something? What they're doing now sounds like a real pain! Couldn't there be two condition tags, English and Spanish, and just translate the whole thing once? It sounds like it's getting translated over and over again, although I admit I was pre-coffee when I read it. Anne The information contained in or attached to this e-mail contains confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this e-mail is PROHIBITED. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete the e-mail immediately. Thank you.
Pagemaker to FrameMaker conversion
Carol J. Elkins wrote: > Thanks for your comments. Unfortunately, my client doesn't > know what he wants other than to reduce the twice yearly > expense of printing the Spanish version of this book. I > maintain this manual in FrameMaker and the gal who maintains > the Spanish version works in PageMaker. I think my client > needs to consider a new vendor for the Spanish version. Here > > I suggested to my client that we might convert the doc to > FrameMaker and have a "professional" manage revisions to the > Spanish version. That would, at first glimpse, be a better > idea than having my FrameMaker version translated to Spanish. I have no direct experience with either localization or conversion from PM to FM, so I may be way off base, but... If the English version is in FM, and it's the original source for the translated version, then I'd _really_, _really_ prefer to start with the FM version. It seems to me that it would be relatively easy for a Spanish speaker to replace the English text in your FM files with the corresponding Spanish text (assuming the existing translations are of good quality). Just pasting plain text and applying pgf and char tags as you go should go fairly quickly. The callouts will simply have to be redone properly -- but you have the translated wording to work from. The result would be a Spanish FM book that matched your English FM book -- not just in appearance/layout, but in all the "plumbing" -- graphics, xrefs, variables, running headers/footers, generated lists, etc. I suspect that result would be at best very difficult and time-consuming to achieve if you start from the PM version. Maybe I'm off-base, but that's my $0.02. Richard -- Richard G. Combs Senior Technical Writer Polycom, Inc. richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom 303-223-5111 -- rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom 303-777-0436 --
RE: Pagemaker to FrameMaker conversion
> It seems to me that it would be relatively easy for a Spanish > speaker to replace the English text in your FM files with the > corresponding Spanish text (assuming the existing > translations are of good quality). Just pasting plain text > and applying pgf and char tags as you go should go fairly > quickly. The callouts will simply have to be redone properly > -- but you have the translated wording to work from. > > The result would be a Spanish FM book that matched your > English FM book > -- not just in appearance/layout, but in all the "plumbing" > -- graphics, xrefs, variables, running headers/footers, > generated lists, etc. I suspect that result would be at best > very difficult and time-consuming to achieve if you start > from the PM version. Is there a reason not to handle this with conditional text? Is it because of the length of the book, or something? What they're doing now sounds like a real pain! Couldn't there be two condition tags, English and Spanish, and just translate the whole thing once? It sounds like it's getting translated over and over again, although I admit I was pre-coffee when I read it. Anne The information contained in or attached to this e-mail contains confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this e-mail is PROHIBITED. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete the e-mail immediately. Thank you. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Pagemaker to FrameMaker conversion
Carol J. Elkins wrote: > Thanks for your comments. Unfortunately, my client doesn't > know what he wants other than to reduce the twice yearly > expense of printing the Spanish version of this book. I > maintain this manual in FrameMaker and the gal who maintains > the Spanish version works in PageMaker. I think my client > needs to consider a new vendor for the Spanish version. Here > > I suggested to my client that we might convert the doc to > FrameMaker and have a "professional" manage revisions to the > Spanish version. That would, at first glimpse, be a better > idea than having my FrameMaker version translated to Spanish. I have no direct experience with either localization or conversion from PM to FM, so I may be way off base, but... If the English version is in FM, and it's the original source for the translated version, then I'd _really_, _really_ prefer to start with the FM version. It seems to me that it would be relatively easy for a Spanish speaker to replace the English text in your FM files with the corresponding Spanish text (assuming the existing translations are of good quality). Just pasting plain text and applying pgf and char tags as you go should go fairly quickly. The callouts will simply have to be redone properly -- but you have the translated wording to work from. The result would be a Spanish FM book that matched your English FM book -- not just in appearance/layout, but in all the "plumbing" -- graphics, xrefs, variables, running headers/footers, generated lists, etc. I suspect that result would be at best very difficult and time-consuming to achieve if you start from the PM version. Maybe I'm off-base, but that's my $0.02. Richard -- Richard G. Combs Senior Technical Writer Polycom, Inc. richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom 303-223-5111 -- rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom 303-777-0436 -- ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Pagemaker to FrameMaker conversion
Carol J. Elkins wrote: > > 1. Has anyone successfully converted from PageMaker to FrameMaker and, if > so, what were the gotchas? Reasonably successful, FM can import PM files directly. But... 1. Provided the original document uses properly formatted text and everything is in one flow, otherwise some text can be lost. 2. Image data can be quite challenging, depending on your platform, and whether you are swapping platforms at the same time. 3. Tabular data that has been created using Adobe Table is a real pain. To get around the problems in 1-3 above I PDFd the original documents. This gave me something to compare once the translation has been done. Vector art images were extracted from the PDF using Illustrator. Raster images need to be treateed on a case by case basis depending on the original file format, but mostly I was able to select the image data from the PDF in Acrobat and paste that into Photoshop. Tabular data can be copied from the PDF or exported as TXT (real drag if there are a lot of tables). If the originator was undisciplined you might find a lot of strange formats that are brought into FM, or worse, Word formats. To fix these I have used Paragraph Tools and Character Tools. Then gone back through them all and assigned correct formats. Obviously this meant creating a template first and importing the page, paragraph, character, etc. styles into each converted chapter before tryin gto clean it all up. There is a lot of work in the worst case, but can be straightforward if the originator knew what they were doing. > 2. Can anyone recommend a translation vendor who could manage this conversion? > > No, sorry. I can do conversion but not translation. Cheers Alan Litchfield ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Pagemaker to FrameMaker conversion
Hi Mollye, Thanks for your comments. Unfortunately, my client doesn't know what he wants other than to reduce the twice yearly expense of printing the Spanish version of this book. I maintain this manual in FrameMaker and the gal who maintains the Spanish version works in PageMaker. I think my client needs to consider a new vendor for the Spanish version. Here are a couple of examples of why I think this: She has no experience with graphic formats, so she cuts and pastes graphics (the hardcopy version!) on which she has overlain the translated callouts. She sends these plus her native PageMaker files to the printer and the printer spends hours of table time getting them ready for prepress. I suggested to this gal that she purchase Adobe Acrobat and send the PDF files to the printer. This she did. Now she thinks that Acrobat is her native application and wants to know how to make the changes in the PDF file. I suggested to my client that we might convert the doc to FrameMaker and have a "professional" manage revisions to the Spanish version. That would, at first glimpse, be a better idea than having my FrameMaker version translated to Spanish. So my query is really just a preliminary first pass at what I might need to consider if I make a recommendation to my client. Structured Frame is not a practical option for this book. I have no idea what the doc looks like in PageMaker. The FrameMaker template is excellent. Assuming that there is good mapping correlation, is there a PageMaker-to-FrameMaker conversion tool that you know of? I've never heard the term "translation memory," so I don't know what to do with your comments that used it. Can you explain it a bit more? Thanks! Carol At 05:28 PM 6/26/2006 -0500, Mollye Barrett wrote: >Does the client really want the translation vendor to do the conversion? >Perhaps what they're looking for is a migration plan for converting the >PageMaker to Frame and then working with translation memory. Are all the >languages they require supported by Frame? Do they have a strong template >and/or EDD? > >We've worked with many conversions and the gotchas are always, it depends. >The best projects are those with high stylesheet integrity on both sides of >the conversion (of course, these are few and far between!). I'd consider get >them into a structured Frame world, convert PageMaker PDFs to XML and, >import the XML to Frame. A good EDD will handle the formatting and the >client will have minimal upkeep on future revisions. > >If they have an existing PageMaker translation memory (full of formatting >tags), their translator may be challenged with this change. As we all know, >there's more to translations than handing off an input file. This is a >strategic decision that carries a significant cost and there are many places >the project could go wrong. So, I'd map out every step of the conversion and >the translation processing before even discussing the process with the >client. > >There are lots of good conversion resources and many excellent translators. >Sounds like the client needs someone that can orchestrate the process!
RE: Pagemaker to FrameMaker conversion
Hi Mollye, Thanks for your comments. Unfortunately, my client doesn't know what he wants other than to reduce the twice yearly expense of printing the Spanish version of this book. I maintain this manual in FrameMaker and the gal who maintains the Spanish version works in PageMaker. I think my client needs to consider a new vendor for the Spanish version. Here are a couple of examples of why I think this: She has no experience with graphic formats, so she cuts and pastes graphics (the hardcopy version!) on which she has overlain the translated callouts. She sends these plus her native PageMaker files to the printer and the printer spends hours of table time getting them ready for prepress. I suggested to this gal that she purchase Adobe Acrobat and send the PDF files to the printer. This she did. Now she thinks that Acrobat is her native application and wants to know how to make the changes in the PDF file. I suggested to my client that we might convert the doc to FrameMaker and have a "professional" manage revisions to the Spanish version. That would, at first glimpse, be a better idea than having my FrameMaker version translated to Spanish. So my query is really just a preliminary first pass at what I might need to consider if I make a recommendation to my client. Structured Frame is not a practical option for this book. I have no idea what the doc looks like in PageMaker. The FrameMaker template is excellent. Assuming that there is good mapping correlation, is there a PageMaker-to-FrameMaker conversion tool that you know of? I've never heard the term "translation memory," so I don't know what to do with your comments that used it. Can you explain it a bit more? Thanks! Carol At 05:28 PM 6/26/2006 -0500, Mollye Barrett wrote: Does the client really want the translation vendor to do the conversion? Perhaps what they're looking for is a migration plan for converting the PageMaker to Frame and then working with translation memory. Are all the languages they require supported by Frame? Do they have a strong template and/or EDD? We've worked with many conversions and the gotchas are always, it depends. The best projects are those with high stylesheet integrity on both sides of the conversion (of course, these are few and far between!). I'd consider get them into a structured Frame world, convert PageMaker PDFs to XML and, import the XML to Frame. A good EDD will handle the formatting and the client will have minimal upkeep on future revisions. If they have an existing PageMaker translation memory (full of formatting tags), their translator may be challenged with this change. As we all know, there's more to translations than handing off an input file. This is a strategic decision that carries a significant cost and there are many places the project could go wrong. So, I'd map out every step of the conversion and the translation processing before even discussing the process with the client. There are lots of good conversion resources and many excellent translators. Sounds like the client needs someone that can orchestrate the process! ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Pagemaker to FrameMaker conversion
Currently, one of my clients uses a translation vendor (English to Spanish) who authors in PageMaker. They've asked me what it would entail to convert the PageMaker book to FrameMaker and change to a translation vendor who can work in Framemaker. The book in question is 550 pages and is updated twice a year. I have never been involved in any localization project, so I'm pretty naive in this area. I have two main questions for Frame folks: 1. Has anyone successfully converted from PageMaker to FrameMaker and, if so, what were the gotchas? 2. Can anyone recommend a translation vendor who could manage this conversion? Thanks, as always, for your help. Carol ** Carol J. Elkins---A Written Word LLC Making Information Understandable Phone: 719-948-3773 mailto:celkins at awrittenword.com http://www.awrittenword.com ***
Pagemaker to FrameMaker conversion
Currently, one of my clients uses a translation vendor (English to Spanish) who authors in PageMaker. They've asked me what it would entail to convert the PageMaker book to FrameMaker and change to a translation vendor who can work in Framemaker. The book in question is 550 pages and is updated twice a year. I have never been involved in any localization project, so I'm pretty naive in this area. I have two main questions for Frame folks: 1. Has anyone successfully converted from PageMaker to FrameMaker and, if so, what were the gotchas? 2. Can anyone recommend a translation vendor who could manage this conversion? Thanks, as always, for your help. Carol ** Carol J. Elkins---A Written Word LLC Making Information Understandable Phone: 719-948-3773 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.awrittenword.com *** ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
