Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015

2020-04-10 Thread Robert Lauriston
To the contrary, I think pretty much everyone is trying to move off legacy mainframe systems. It's a booming business. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d=migrate+cobol+to+the+cloud On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 9:55 AM Lin Sims wrote: > > Because they still work, they're reliable, and

Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015

2020-04-10 Thread Lin Sims
Because they still work, they're reliable, and at this point they're pretty much unhackable. Plus, the cost of transferring all that data and creating programs in modern languages is incalculable. No one wants to make the investment. -- Lin Sims ___

Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015

2020-04-10 Thread Robert Lauriston
In related news: "Literally, we have systems that are 40-plus-years-old," New Jersey Gov. > Murphy said over the weekend. "There'll be lots of postmortems and one of > them on our list will be how did we get here where we literally needed > COBOL programmers?" >

Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015

2020-04-09 Thread jackdeland
Reading all this nostalgia makes ME feel young again. And I was at the Apollo 11 launch. ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives

Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015

2020-04-09 Thread Robert Lauriston
Interleaf was eventually acquired by Broadleaf, which renamed it Quicksilver, which still exists. On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:33 AM Tarlochan S. Nahal wrote: > > My nostalgia goes further back! > > As many of you might know there was another heavy-weight technical > publishing tool called

Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015

2020-04-07 Thread Peter Gold
Dang autocorrect. Should have been "first-hand" not "first-have." Ok, I won't start your feet moving down that path. ;) On Tue, Apr 7, 2020, 9:13 PM Jerilynne Knight wrote: > Oh lordy Peter, don't even get me started on that topic!!! lol > > > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 10:01 PM Peter Gold >

Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015

2020-04-07 Thread Jerilynne Knight
Oh lordy Peter, don't even get me started on that topic!!! lol On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 10:01 PM Peter Gold wrote: > Corel's not the first company to have shot itself in the foot. Many of us > have first-have experience. Oooops, should that be "first-foot?" > > >

Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015

2020-04-07 Thread Peter Gold
Corel's not the first company to have shot itself in the foot. Many of us have first-have experience. Oooops, should that be "first-foot?" On Tue, Apr 7, 2020, 1:41 PM Mark Soiseth wrote: > I got a job with a company who used Ventura on the GEM environment. It > allowed me to shoot myself in

Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015

2020-04-07 Thread Jerilynne Knight
Oh wowser Mark...I forgot about the Gem environment! And I remember that DOS-based machine...had one of them! J On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 2:42 PM Mark Soiseth wrote: > I got a job with a company who used Ventura on the GEM environment. It > allowed me to shoot myself in the foot so easily. But,

Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015

2020-04-07 Thread Mark Soiseth
I got a job with a company who used Ventura on the GEM environment. It allowed me to shoot myself in the foot so easily. But, once I learned how to apply the rules, etc., I was amazed. And this was on DOS-based machines with a 8086 chip and only 640 kb of RAM. But, yes, Corel did not do it

Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015

2020-04-07 Thread Jerilynne Knight
Hi Bjorn...I didn't follow Ventura that far into present time, although I loved it when I learned it a Xerox. Once Corel took it over, I though I was the only one who was both disappointed and disgusted with the poor job they were doing! On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 5:00 PM Studio Smalbro wrote: >

Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015

2020-04-07 Thread Jerilynne Knight
Wowser Robert, talk about a background! Which makes me laugh at a recent comment by a young man of 34 when I said something about technology in the late 70s and early 80s. The comment: "They had technology back then?" This story definitely proves that yes, grasshopper, they did! Ouch, lol! On

Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015

2020-04-07 Thread Jerilynne Knight
e to move to an early version of FM > > for large document sets. What a joy it was then! > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Framers > > > On Behalf Of Jerilynne Knight > > Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 6:56 AM > > To: An email list for peo

Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015

2020-04-06 Thread Robert Lauriston
In the late 70s and 80s I made my living typing, mostly at law firms, so I saw the whole evolution firsthand. When I started it was typewriters with carbon paper and Wite-Out. Then came IBM Correcting Selectric ball typewriters and Xerox machines, then IBM Mag Card or occasionally the MT/ST tape

Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015

2020-04-06 Thread Lin Sims
What a joy it was then! > > -Original Message- > From: Framers > On Behalf Of Jerilynne Knight > Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 6:56 AM > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. < > framers@lists.frameusers.com> > Subject: Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - w

Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015

2020-04-06 Thread Jerilynne Knight
I remember at least a part of those days! My first training course in '84 was to help executive assistants (they were called secretaries back then) convert from typewriters to a standalone word processing unit from DEC (with 2 8" floppies...one for the system files and one for the data files). I

Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015

2020-04-06 Thread L Larson
of FM for large document sets. What a joy it was then! -Original Message- From: Framers On Behalf Of Jerilynne Knight Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 6:56 AM To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. Subject: Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 Hey there Pet

Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015

2020-04-03 Thread Jerilynne Knight
Hey there Peter, I totally forgot about WordStar! I'm still a keyboard shortcuts person and grumble heartily when they're not available. I can do things so much more quickly with the keyboard! J 317.593.5551 On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 10:11 PM Peter Gold wrote: > On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 7:31 PM

Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015

2020-04-03 Thread Jerilynne Knight
Hey there Lin...right there widya Numbering, after all these years, still sucks! J On Fri, Apr 3, 2020 at 8:47 AM Lin Sims wrote: > Word still pretty much sucks. It's more stable than it used to be, but > things like numbering still require very strictly controlled styles or some >

Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015

2020-04-03 Thread Lin Sims
Word still pretty much sucks. It's more stable than it used to be, but things like numbering still require very strictly controlled styles or some facility with VB. I've encountered people who can get it to do a lot of what Frame does, but, again, they use a lot of VB macros to do what Frame does

Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015

2020-04-03 Thread Jerilynne Knight
What a great history of FM...I started out on Ventura Publisher, while working for Xerox, who had purchased the software and didn't know squiddly squat about it so, as someone who had gone NUTZ trying to find some way to do process doc and software manuals without going postal, I set out to learn

Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015

2020-04-03 Thread Lin Sims
Klaus is fairly active on the Adobe forums, and still working on useful scripts, too. On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 8:05 PM Peter Gold wrote: > Just when I've been wondering if I’m really as old as I look, or only as > old as I've always thought I was (meaning 20-something), in jumps Frank > Stearns!

Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015

2020-04-02 Thread Peter Gold
On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 7:31 PM Robert Lauriston wrote: > I used FullWrite on an SE/30 in the late 80s. I think it was my > preferred word processor for a while. > WordStar's Ctrl-key "diamond" s, d, e, and x, for cursor movement, and many text operations, are still burnt into my synapses, only

Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015

2020-04-02 Thread Craig Ede
Tags may exist as nouns in the manual, but for him it seemed the verb 'tagging' was XML related only. Did I say manual? I meant help pages. Another slip. Craig Robert Lauriston said: I'm not sure how nostalgia figures into that. What most programs call

Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015

2020-04-02 Thread Robert Lauriston
I used FullWrite on an SE/30 in the late 80s. I think it was my preferred word processor for a while. On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 5:05 PM Peter Gold wrote: > > ... As to nostalgia for lost technologies, Ashton-Tate bought Mac-based > FullWrite Professional, probably one of the only real competitors

Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015

2020-04-02 Thread Peter Gold
Just when I've been wondering if I’m really as old as I look, or only as old as I've always thought I was (meaning 20-something), in jumps Frank Stearns! Like Lin Sims, Lynne Price, et. al. You're one of the early-on posters I remember saving lives - mine and those of others - back in the days of

Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015

2020-04-02 Thread Robert Lauriston
I'm not sure how nostalgia figures into that. What most programs call paragraph styles and character styles, unstructured FrameMaker calls paragraph tags and character tags. https://help.adobe.com/en_US/framemaker/2019/using/using-framemaker-2019/frm_page_layout_pl-styles.html On Thu, Apr 2,

Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015

2020-04-02 Thread Frank Stearns
On Thu, 2 Apr 2020, Craig Ede wrote: Nostalgia can cause trouble. I recently was in an interview with a True, to some degree. On the other hand, I've noted some annoying shifts in some language "pools" such that "process" becomes more important than "results". This seems to be especially

Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015

2020-04-02 Thread Craig Ede
Nostalgia can cause trouble. I recently was in an interview with a multinational Health Care company in the Milwaukee/Waukesha area and referred to 'tagging' paragraphs in unstructured FrameMaker. The interviewer was nonplussed and corrected me, saying unstructured FrameMaker was not like XML.

Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015

2020-04-02 Thread Böðvar Björgvinsson
Thanks for this insight. Bodvar fim., 2. apr. 2020 kl. 17:09 skrifaði Frank Stearns : > In 1990 or so I'd just completed migrating some 6000 pages of DEC RNO > (with pieces of UNIX Troff tossed in) over to LaTeX for my primary > client of the day (Aptec Systems, a Floating Point Systems