Re: Variables vs Cross-references vs Text Insets [WAS: Hiding Pages?]
David Bills [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 06/10/2006 04:50:57 AM: The point I'm attempting to make is that large departments, particularly those that weigh specialized technical skills and experience higher than desktop publishing skills, should factor the Frame capabilities of their less skilled Frame users into these types of decisions. And employees, who value their jobs and take professional pride in their work should be able to learn to do something fairly simple like making Xrefs. But I understand your concern. Some people just can't 'get' certain ways of working. But, IMO, it is the place of management to set the minimum expectations and discipline accordingly. Actually, if your Xrefs were breaking it was probably more to do with the setup than the writers. No amount of training will help a Frame user keep Xrefs connected if the path includes a drive root. Those will break eventually no matter how hard you try. But, all limitations in that regard can be overcome with either the BookUtils plug-in or an in-house script. It can be as simple as each file having a copy of the nomenclature file copied locally so that all links are relative and immediate. The Xrefs then simply need to be pointed to the central file for production or copies of the central file placed with the working files. However you maintain and/or store the target files, maintaining and resolving the Xrefs should be quite simple to do. Eric L. Dunn Senior Technical Writer ___ This e-mail communication (and any attachment/s) may contain confidential or privileged information and is intended only for the individual(s) or entity named above and to others who have been specifically authorized to receive it. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use or disclose the contents of this communication to others. Please notify the sender that you have received this e-mail in error by reply e-mail, and delete the e-mail subsequently. Please note that in order to protect the security of our information systems an AntiSPAM solution is in use and will browse through incoming emails. Thank you. _ Ce message (ainsi que le(s) fichier/s), transmis par courriel, peut contenir des renseignements confidentiels ou protégés et est destiné à l?usage exclusif du destinataire ci-dessus. Toute autre personne est par les présentes avisée qu?il est strictement interdit de le diffuser, le distribuer ou le reproduire. Si vous l?avez reçu par inadvertance, veuillez nous en aviser et détruire ce message. Veuillez prendre note qu'une solution antipollupostage (AntiSPAM) est utilisée afin d'assurer la sécurité de nos systems d'information et qu'elle furètera les courriels entrant. Merci. _ ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Variables vs Cross-references vs Text Insets [WAS: Hiding Pages?]
"David Bills" wrote on 06/10/2006 04:50:57 AM: > The point I'm attempting to make is that large departments, particularly > those that weigh specialized technical skills and experience higher than > desktop publishing skills, should factor the Frame capabilities of their > less skilled Frame users into these types of decisions. And employees, who value their jobs and take professional pride in their work should be able to learn to do something fairly simple like making Xrefs. But I understand your concern. Some people just can't 'get' certain ways of working. But, IMO, it is the place of management to set the minimum expectations and discipline accordingly. Actually, if your Xrefs were breaking it was probably more to do with the setup than the writers. No amount of training will help a Frame user keep Xrefs connected if the path includes a drive root. Those will break eventually no matter how hard you try. But, all limitations in that regard can be overcome with either the BookUtils plug-in or an in-house script. It can be as simple as each file having a copy of the nomenclature file copied locally so that all links are relative and immediate. The Xrefs then simply need to be pointed to the central file for production or copies of the central file placed with the working files. However you maintain and/or store the target files, maintaining and resolving the Xrefs should be quite simple to do. Eric L. Dunn Senior Technical Writer ___ This e-mail communication (and any attachment/s) may contain confidential or privileged information and is intended only for the individual(s) or entity named above and to others who have been specifically authorized to receive it. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use or disclose the contents of this communication to others. Please notify the sender that you have received this e-mail in error by reply e-mail, and delete the e-mail subsequently. Please note that in order to protect the security of our information systems an AntiSPAM solution is in use and will browse through incoming emails. Thank you. _ Ce message (ainsi que le(s) fichier/s), transmis par courriel, peut contenir des renseignements confidentiels ou prot?g?s et est destin? ? l?usage exclusif du destinataire ci-dessus. Toute autre personne est par les pr?sentes avis?e qu?il est strictement interdit de le diffuser, le distribuer ou le reproduire. Si vous l?avez re?u par inadvertance, veuillez nous en aviser et d?truire ce message. Veuillez prendre note qu'une solution antipollupostage (AntiSPAM) est utilis?e afin d'assurer la s?curit? de nos systems d'information et qu'elle fur?tera les courriels entrant. Merci. _
Re: Variables vs Cross-references vs Text Insets [WAS: Hiding Pages?]
Eric, It may not be a relevant issue for you, but our department switched from xrefs to variables because the less experienced Frame users kept breaking the links and generating unresolved xrefs. We didn't think this would be difficult problem to resolve, but a number of the writers kept breaking the links after they had been trained, so we changed the way we managed the nomenclatures. The point I'm attempting to make is that large departments, particularly those that weigh specialized technical skills and experience higher than desktop publishing skills, should factor the Frame capabilities of their less skilled Frame users into these types of decisions. Dave Bills - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: John Posada [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: framers@frameusers.com Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 12:31 PM Subject: Re: Variables vs Cross-references vs Text Insets [WAS: Hiding Pages?] The text content of a cross-reference is limited by what you can build using the Xref building blocks. It may be possible to have a Xref that produces multiple paragraphs (Using \R in the def?) but I doubt it would be workable. But to combine multiple paragraphs, you need to have information that's consistently tagged and organised. Then, it's only really workable to create strings as I have done. For multiple paras, I'd stick to insets. Eric L. Dunn Senior Technical Writer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 06/09/2006 10:41:06 AM: No...I've imported documents that were hundreds of pages long into another document. Of course, everything has a limit...maybe a million pages might be a problem? than one chapter. Is there a limit to how much text you can insert with a cross reference? My introductions often are two or three paragraphs. John Posada Senior Technical Writer So long and thanks for all the fish. ___ ___ This e-mail communication (and any attachment/s) may contain confidential or privileged information and is intended only for the individual(s) or entity named above and to others who have been specifically authorized to receive it. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use or disclose the contents of this communication to others. Please notify the sender that you have received this e-mail in error by reply e-mail, and delete the e-mail subsequently. Please note that in order to protect the security of our information systems an AntiSPAM solution is in use and will browse through incoming emails. Thank you. _ Ce message (ainsi que le(s) fichier/s), transmis par courriel, peut contenir des renseignements confidentiels ou protégés et est destiné à l?usage exclusif du destinataire ci-dessus. Toute autre personne est par les présentes avisée qu?il est strictement interdit de le diffuser, le distribuer ou le reproduire. Si vous l?avez reçu par inadvertance, veuillez nous en aviser et détruire ce message. Veuillez prendre note qu'une solution antipollupostage (AntiSPAM) est utilisée afin d'assurer la sécurité de nos systems d'information et qu'elle furètera les courriels entrant. Merci. _ ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dmbills%40cfl.rr.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Variables vs Cross-references vs Text Insets [WAS: Hiding Pages?]
Eric, It may not be a relevant issue for you, but our department switched from xrefs to variables because the less experienced Frame users kept breaking the links and generating unresolved xrefs. We didn't think this would be difficult problem to resolve, but a number of the writers kept breaking the links after they had been trained, so we changed the way we managed the nomenclatures. The point I'm attempting to make is that large departments, particularly those that weigh specialized technical skills and experience higher than desktop publishing skills, should factor the Frame capabilities of their less skilled Frame users into these types of decisions. Dave Bills - Original Message - From: <eric.d...@ca.transport.bombardier.com> To: "John Posada" Cc: Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 12:31 PM Subject: Re: Variables vs Cross-references vs Text Insets [WAS: Hiding Pages?] The text content of a cross-reference is limited by what you can build using the Xref building blocks. It may be possible to have a Xref that produces multiple paragraphs (Using \R in the def?) but I doubt it would be workable. But to combine multiple paragraphs, you need to have information that's consistently tagged and organised. Then, it's only really workable to create strings as I have done. For multiple paras, I'd stick to insets. Eric L. Dunn Senior Technical Writer framers-bounces+eric.dunn=ca.transport.bombardier.com at lists.frameusers.com wrote on 06/09/2006 10:41:06 AM: > No...I've imported documents that were hundreds of pages long into > another document. > Of course, everything has a limit...maybe a million pages might be a > problem? > > than one chapter. Is there a limit to how much text you can insert > > with a cross reference? My introductions often are two or three > > paragraphs. > > John Posada > Senior Technical Writer > "So long and thanks for all the fish." > ___ ___ This e-mail communication (and any attachment/s) may contain confidential or privileged information and is intended only for the individual(s) or entity named above and to others who have been specifically authorized to receive it. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use or disclose the contents of this communication to others. Please notify the sender that you have received this e-mail in error by reply e-mail, and delete the e-mail subsequently. Please note that in order to protect the security of our information systems an AntiSPAM solution is in use and will browse through incoming emails. Thank you. _ Ce message (ainsi que le(s) fichier/s), transmis par courriel, peut contenir des renseignements confidentiels ou prot?g?s et est destin? ? l?usage exclusif du destinataire ci-dessus. Toute autre personne est par les pr?sentes avis?e qu?il est strictement interdit de le diffuser, le distribuer ou le reproduire. Si vous l?avez re?u par inadvertance, veuillez nous en aviser et d?truire ce message. Veuillez prendre note qu'une solution antipollupostage (AntiSPAM) est utilis?e afin d'assurer la s?curit? de nos systems d'information et qu'elle fur?tera les courriels entrant. Merci. _ ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as dmbills at cfl.rr.com. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dmbills%40cfl.rr.com Send administrative questions to lisa at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Variables vs Cross-references vs Text Insets [WAS: Hiding Pages?]
This might work better than text insets. I use text insets for definitions of fields on screens and for introductory paragraphs that are used in more than one chapter. Is there a limit to how much text you can insert with a cross reference? My introductions often are two or three paragraphs. Nancy Carpenter Lead Technical Writer GENCO Distribution System 100 Papercraft Park Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15238 |-+--- | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | | Sent by:| | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | meusers.com | | | | | | | | | 06/09/2006 09:58 AM | | | | |-+--- --| | | | To: Ridder, Fred [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | cc: framers@frameusers.com | | Subject: Variables vs Cross-references [WAS: Hiding Pages?] | --| Ridder, Fred [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 06/08/2006 11:57:39 AM: In a situation where only the name changes, I find that it is *much* more maintainable to use a variable for the product name because you only have to make a change in one place (the variable's value definition) when one of the names changes or when a new variant is added to the list. Personally, I don't like conditional text. Usually it gets far too complex very quickly and you're hobbled by the limitation of OR logic for overlapping conditions. But, are variables the right answer? Why not Xrefs instead? Perhaps this idea isn't terribly Earth shattering, but it came to me in a flash and I've been using it successfully for some time now. The idea struck me as more of a 'DUH' kind of realisation when I implemented it, but after giving a FrameMaker class, I was amazed at how foreign the idea seemed to so many. The situation was this: hundreds of components, multiple ways of writing their descriptions, abbreviations, and specifications which led to an unmanageable mass of variables. So, I turned to cross-references. A stand-alone document contains a three column table. Column 1 - CB Number Column 2 - CB Placard Column 3 - Complete description ex: CB1 LIGHTINGCB1, LIGHTING Three cross-reference formats are used: 1 - CBNumber 2 - CBPlacard 3 - CBPlacard (Num) So, depending on the requirements I can include CB1, LIGHTING, or LIGHTING (CB1) in my documentation. If the placard or information changes, I change the source document and that's it. A generate update of all books ensures the data is correct. I've actually begun using the same approach for terms and equipment names. Any text that needs to maintain consistency is grouped with like terms in a file. So three HUGE advantages IMO. First, no need to maintain a MIF snippet of variables or using a script/plug-in to import user variables only (because invariably, one or more of the system variables are defined differently for different sections/files). Second, instead of hundreds of variables, I have 3 Xref formats. Third, generating and updating is already a step in the publishing process. So, the step of importing variables is skipped and not there to be forgotten. What are the downsides? Well, so far nothing. But I have an itch in the back of my skull concerning Xrefs and character formatting that I just can't shake. Something as to whether character formatting applied in the source (all character tagging is done using catalogue formats common to source and destination) is kept in the destination or not... Anyone know what I should be worrying about? Eric L. Dunn Senior Technical Writer ___ This e-mail communication (and any attachment/s) may contain confidential or privileged information and is intended only for the individual(s) or entity named above and to others who have been specifically authorized to receive it. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use or disclose the contents of this communication to others. Please notify the sender that you have received this e-mail in error by reply e-mail, and delete the e-mail subsequently. Please note that in order to protect the security of our information systems an AntiSPAM
Re: Variables vs Cross-references vs Text Insets [WAS: Hiding Pages?]
No...I've imported documents that were hundreds of pages long into another document. Of course, everything has a limit...maybe a million pages might be a problem? than one chapter. Is there a limit to how much text you can insert with a cross reference? My introductions often are two or three paragraphs. John Posada Senior Technical Writer So long and thanks for all the fish. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Variables vs Cross-references vs Text Insets [WAS: Hiding Pages?]
The text content of a cross-reference is limited by what you can build using the Xref building blocks. It may be possible to have a Xref that produces multiple paragraphs (Using \R in the def?) but I doubt it would be workable. But to combine multiple paragraphs, you need to have information that's consistently tagged and organised. Then, it's only really workable to create strings as I have done. For multiple paras, I'd stick to insets. Eric L. Dunn Senior Technical Writer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 06/09/2006 10:41:06 AM: No...I've imported documents that were hundreds of pages long into another document. Of course, everything has a limit...maybe a million pages might be a problem? than one chapter. Is there a limit to how much text you can insert with a cross reference? My introductions often are two or three paragraphs. John Posada Senior Technical Writer So long and thanks for all the fish. ___ ___ This e-mail communication (and any attachment/s) may contain confidential or privileged information and is intended only for the individual(s) or entity named above and to others who have been specifically authorized to receive it. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use or disclose the contents of this communication to others. Please notify the sender that you have received this e-mail in error by reply e-mail, and delete the e-mail subsequently. Please note that in order to protect the security of our information systems an AntiSPAM solution is in use and will browse through incoming emails. Thank you. _ Ce message (ainsi que le(s) fichier/s), transmis par courriel, peut contenir des renseignements confidentiels ou protégés et est destiné à l?usage exclusif du destinataire ci-dessus. Toute autre personne est par les présentes avisée qu?il est strictement interdit de le diffuser, le distribuer ou le reproduire. Si vous l?avez reçu par inadvertance, veuillez nous en aviser et détruire ce message. Veuillez prendre note qu'une solution antipollupostage (AntiSPAM) est utilisée afin d'assurer la sécurité de nos systems d'information et qu'elle furètera les courriels entrant. Merci. _ ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Variables vs Cross-references vs Text Insets [WAS: Hiding Pages?]
This might work better than text insets. I use text insets for definitions of fields on screens and for introductory paragraphs that are used in more than one chapter. Is there a limit to how much text you can insert with a cross reference? My introductions often are two or three paragraphs. Nancy Carpenter Lead Technical Writer GENCO Distribution System 100 Papercraft Park Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15238 |-+---> | | eric.dunn at ca.transport.bombardier.com | | | Sent by:| | | framers-bounces+carpentn=genco.com at lists.fra| | | meusers.com | | | | | | | | | 06/09/2006 09:58 AM | | | | |-+---> >--| | | | To: "Ridder, Fred" | | cc: framers at frameusers.com | | Subject: Variables vs Cross-references [WAS: Hiding Pages?] | >--| "Ridder, Fred" wrote on 06/08/2006 11:57:39 AM: > In a situation where only the name changes, I find that it is *much* > more maintainable to use a variable for the product name because > you only have to make a change in one place (the variable's value > definition) when one of the names changes or when a new variant > is added to the list. Personally, I don't like conditional text. Usually it gets far too complex very quickly and you're hobbled by the limitation of OR logic for overlapping conditions. But, are variables the right answer? Why not Xrefs instead? Perhaps this idea isn't terribly Earth shattering, but it came to me in a flash and I've been using it successfully for some time now. The idea struck me as more of a 'DUH' kind of realisation when I implemented it, but after giving a FrameMaker class, I was amazed at how foreign the idea seemed to so many. The situation was this: hundreds of components, multiple ways of writing their descriptions, abbreviations, and specifications which led to an unmanageable mass of variables. So, I turned to cross-references. A stand-alone document contains a three column table. Column 1 - CB Number Column 2 - CB Placard Column 3 - Complete description ex: CB1 LIGHTINGCB1, LIGHTING Three cross-reference formats are used: 1 - CBNumber 2 - CBPlacard 3 - CBPlacard (Num) So, depending on the requirements I can include CB1, LIGHTING, or LIGHTING (CB1) in my documentation. If the placard or information changes, I change the source document and that's it. A generate update of all books ensures the data is correct. I've actually begun using the same approach for terms and equipment names. Any text that needs to maintain consistency is grouped with like terms in a file. So three HUGE advantages IMO. First, no need to maintain a MIF snippet of variables or using a script/plug-in to import user variables only (because invariably, one or more of the system variables are defined differently for different sections/files). Second, instead of hundreds of variables, I have 3 Xref formats. Third, generating and updating is already a step in the publishing process. So, the step of importing variables is skipped and not there to be forgotten. What are the downsides? Well, so far nothing. But I have an itch in the back of my skull concerning Xrefs and character formatting that I just can't shake. Something as to whether character formatting applied in the source (all character tagging is done using catalogue formats common to source and destination) is kept in the destination or not... Anyone know what I should be worrying about? Eric L. Dunn Senior Technical Writer ___ This e-mail communication (and any attachment/s) may contain confidential or privileged information and is intended only for the individual(s) or entity named above and to others who have been specifically authorized to receive it. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use or disclose the contents of this communication to others. Please notify the sender that you have received this e-mail in error by reply e-mail, and delete the e-mail subsequently. Please note that in order to protect the security of
Variables vs Cross-references vs Text Insets [WAS: Hiding Pages?]
No...I've imported documents that were hundreds of pages long into another document. Of course, everything has a limit...maybe a million pages might be a problem? > than one chapter. Is there a limit to how much text you can insert > with a cross reference? My introductions often are two or three > paragraphs. John Posada Senior Technical Writer "So long and thanks for all the fish."
Variables vs Cross-references vs Text Insets [WAS: Hiding Pages?]
The text content of a cross-reference is limited by what you can build using the Xref building blocks. It may be possible to have a Xref that produces multiple paragraphs (Using \R in the def?) but I doubt it would be workable. But to combine multiple paragraphs, you need to have information that's consistently tagged and organised. Then, it's only really workable to create strings as I have done. For multiple paras, I'd stick to insets. Eric L. Dunn Senior Technical Writer framers-bounces+eric.dunn=ca.transport.bombardier.com at lists.frameusers.com wrote on 06/09/2006 10:41:06 AM: > No...I've imported documents that were hundreds of pages long into > another document. > Of course, everything has a limit...maybe a million pages might be a > problem? > > than one chapter. Is there a limit to how much text you can insert > > with a cross reference? My introductions often are two or three > > paragraphs. > > John Posada > Senior Technical Writer > "So long and thanks for all the fish." > ___ ___ This e-mail communication (and any attachment/s) may contain confidential or privileged information and is intended only for the individual(s) or entity named above and to others who have been specifically authorized to receive it. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use or disclose the contents of this communication to others. Please notify the sender that you have received this e-mail in error by reply e-mail, and delete the e-mail subsequently. Please note that in order to protect the security of our information systems an AntiSPAM solution is in use and will browse through incoming emails. Thank you. _ Ce message (ainsi que le(s) fichier/s), transmis par courriel, peut contenir des renseignements confidentiels ou prot?g?s et est destin? ? l?usage exclusif du destinataire ci-dessus. Toute autre personne est par les pr?sentes avis?e qu?il est strictement interdit de le diffuser, le distribuer ou le reproduire. Si vous l?avez re?u par inadvertance, veuillez nous en aviser et d?truire ce message. Veuillez prendre note qu'une solution antipollupostage (AntiSPAM) est utilis?e afin d'assurer la s?curit? de nos systems d'information et qu'elle fur?tera les courriels entrant. Merci. _
