Re: [Framework-Team] Re: Death to the roadmap page?
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 7:34 PM, Eric Steele wrote: > Alex and I will be doing a bit of sprinting on Friday to get this up to > snuff. Personally, I'm all in favor of having some of the marketing folks > have a go at what we come up with -- I'm told I'm not a particularly sunny > individual. > It might just be a requirement for (or caused by? ;) being the release manager. :) -- Alexander Limi · http://limi.net ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
Re: [Framework-Team] Re: Death to the roadmap page?
On Sep 28, 2009, at 2:51 AM, Alexander Limi wrote: On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:29:08 -0700, Steve McMahon wrote: Unfortunately, the situation is *much worse* than Marie indicates, as the roadmap page is completely obsolete and outdated since we switched to trac. It's more than a bit embarrassing that we link to it from the home page. We should have something better, but meanwhile, what should we do with the old roadmap page? It may be useful to some as a historical artifact. The idea (at least for now) is to point it to the Trac roadmap page, and do a bit better job with the release descriptions there. Eric Steele and Yours Truly have volunteered for this task, but we didn't want to do it until 3.3 was out. Now it is, and the old roadmap page can be retired. I don't think we need to involve Mark and others in this particular case — they have much more important things they could be spending their time on — but we can definitely do much better than we're doing right now. If nothing has happened by the end of this week, feel free to call us out on it. :) FWIW, I ticketed the moving of PLIPs (http://dev.plone.org/plone.org/ticket/1588 ) and offered a 2 beer bounty for it because I just didn't have the available time to do that migration myself. Israel has been kind enough to get that started. Hopefully we can have that done by the end of the week. I'd also point out that, at least on a specific level, we don't actually know what's going to be in Plone 4 yet. If users are looking a concrete feature list, they've got at least another week to wait. I'm happy to tell them what *may* show up, but that tends to only lead to disappointment when feature X doesn't make it... and as it is, 85% are wondering why there's no Deco in Plone 4. ;) Alex and I will be doing a bit of sprinting on Friday to get this up to snuff. Personally, I'm all in favor of having some of the marketing folks have a go at what we come up with -- I'm told I'm not a particularly sunny individual. Eric "Plone 4: It's Plone 3, but with some of the stuff from what used to be Plone 4. No, there's no Deco. Stop asking." ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
Re: [Framework-Team] Re: Death to the roadmap page?
I definitely agree, but at the moment we don't do a particularly good job at covering our basic needs on the marketing front — and the roadmap isn't the most important part of what we do for marketing. The stuff outlined in the marketing plan (standardized marketing/conference material, feature comparisons, etc) should have priority. Of course, these aren't mutually exclusive, so if anyone wants to own this piece and make it kick ass — go for it! In the meantime, we can at least get the technical bits right, so our developers and already-using-Plone users can get better information. :) -- Alexander Limi · http://limi.net On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 7:00 AM, Nate Aune wrote: > I think pointing newbies to the list of PLIPs is not a wise move from > a marketing standpoint. You can certainly have the link to the PLIP > page from the roadmap page, but I think there needs to be a more > accessible and human friendly page showing what's coming in Plone 4/5. > The list of PLIPs will just scare all but the most technical people > away. > > Compare the descriptions of Plone with the Joomla and Drupal > description on this page: > http://guide.conecta.it/index.php/Content_management_systems > > Which of those CMSes (if you were completely new to CMSes) would be > most attractive to you? The Drupal and Joomla descriptions tell you > *what* you can actually do with the CMS. I think we need to boil it > down for people and tell them that Plone can do all of those things as > well, and show them examples of where it is done. > > The roadmap page is probably the first thing I would look at if I were > choosing a technology on which to build my future website. It would > need to be have a clear vision of what major changes will impact me, > how they benefit me, and why they are important. It should be written > in a non-jargony tone, but have links to more technical descriptions > if I want to read the nitty gritty details. > > The roadmap page should get me excited about the future of Plone, > preferably with screenshots and screencasts demonstrating these new > features that will be included. It should instill trust that the Plone > software project is moving forward and there is a unified vision for > where it is going. > > Nate > > On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 2:51 AM, Alexander Limi wrote: > > On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:29:08 -0700, Steve McMahon wrote: > > > >> Unfortunately, the situation is *much worse* than Marie indicates, as > the > >> roadmap page is completely obsolete and outdated since we switched to > >> trac. > >> It's more than a bit embarrassing that we link to it from the home page. > >> > >> We should have something better, but meanwhile, what should we do with > the > >> old roadmap page? It may be useful to some as a historical artifact. > > > > The idea (at least for now) is to point it to the Trac roadmap page, and > do > > a bit better job with the release descriptions there. > > > > Eric Steele and Yours Truly have volunteered for this task, but we didn't > > want to do it until 3.3 was out. Now it is, and the old roadmap page can > be > > retired. > > > > I don't think we need to involve Mark and others in this particular case > — > > they have much more important things they could be spending their time on > — > > but we can definitely do much better than we're doing right now. > > > > If nothing has happened by the end of this week, feel free to call us out > on > > it. :) > > > > -- > > Alexander Limi · http://limi.net > > > > > > ___ > > Framework-Team mailing list > > Framework-Team@lists.plone.org > > http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team > > > > > > -- > Nate Aune - na...@jazkarta.com > http://www.jazkarta.com > http://card.ly/natea > +1 (617) 517-4953 > > ** Learn best practices for deploying your Plone sites at our upcoming > Plone Deployment Training in Budapest ** > http://plonedeployment-natesig.eventbrite.com > ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
Re: [Framework-Team] Re: Death to the roadmap page?
I think pointing newbies to the list of PLIPs is not a wise move from a marketing standpoint. You can certainly have the link to the PLIP page from the roadmap page, but I think there needs to be a more accessible and human friendly page showing what's coming in Plone 4/5. The list of PLIPs will just scare all but the most technical people away. Compare the descriptions of Plone with the Joomla and Drupal description on this page: http://guide.conecta.it/index.php/Content_management_systems Which of those CMSes (if you were completely new to CMSes) would be most attractive to you? The Drupal and Joomla descriptions tell you *what* you can actually do with the CMS. I think we need to boil it down for people and tell them that Plone can do all of those things as well, and show them examples of where it is done. The roadmap page is probably the first thing I would look at if I were choosing a technology on which to build my future website. It would need to be have a clear vision of what major changes will impact me, how they benefit me, and why they are important. It should be written in a non-jargony tone, but have links to more technical descriptions if I want to read the nitty gritty details. The roadmap page should get me excited about the future of Plone, preferably with screenshots and screencasts demonstrating these new features that will be included. It should instill trust that the Plone software project is moving forward and there is a unified vision for where it is going. Nate On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 2:51 AM, Alexander Limi wrote: > On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:29:08 -0700, Steve McMahon wrote: > >> Unfortunately, the situation is *much worse* than Marie indicates, as the >> roadmap page is completely obsolete and outdated since we switched to >> trac. >> It's more than a bit embarrassing that we link to it from the home page. >> >> We should have something better, but meanwhile, what should we do with the >> old roadmap page? It may be useful to some as a historical artifact. > > The idea (at least for now) is to point it to the Trac roadmap page, and do > a bit better job with the release descriptions there. > > Eric Steele and Yours Truly have volunteered for this task, but we didn't > want to do it until 3.3 was out. Now it is, and the old roadmap page can be > retired. > > I don't think we need to involve Mark and others in this particular case — > they have much more important things they could be spending their time on — > but we can definitely do much better than we're doing right now. > > If nothing has happened by the end of this week, feel free to call us out on > it. :) > > -- > Alexander Limi · http://limi.net > > > ___ > Framework-Team mailing list > Framework-Team@lists.plone.org > http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team > -- Nate Aune - na...@jazkarta.com http://www.jazkarta.com http://card.ly/natea +1 (617) 517-4953 ** Learn best practices for deploying your Plone sites at our upcoming Plone Deployment Training in Budapest ** http://plonedeployment-natesig.eventbrite.com ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
[Framework-Team] Re: Death to the roadmap page?
On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:29:08 -0700, Steve McMahon wrote: Unfortunately, the situation is *much worse* than Marie indicates, as the roadmap page is completely obsolete and outdated since we switched to trac. It's more than a bit embarrassing that we link to it from the home page. We should have something better, but meanwhile, what should we do with the old roadmap page? It may be useful to some as a historical artifact. The idea (at least for now) is to point it to the Trac roadmap page, and do a bit better job with the release descriptions there. Eric Steele and Yours Truly have volunteered for this task, but we didn't want to do it until 3.3 was out. Now it is, and the old roadmap page can be retired. I don't think we need to involve Mark and others in this particular case — they have much more important things they could be spending their time on — but we can definitely do much better than we're doing right now. If nothing has happened by the end of this week, feel free to call us out on it. :) -- Alexander Limi · http://limi.net ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
