[Frameworks] The Super 8 film format is back with a vengence!
The Super 8 film format is back with a vengence! Fantastic new Super 8 test film footage shot by German filmmaker Friedemann Wachsmuth with the first new Super 8 camera in 30+ years ! Unbelievably sharp registration for such a tiny medium. I kept staring at the corners seeking weave. I believe the previous benchmark set by the 40+ year old Leicina Special with the same Schneider 6-66mm zoom lens has been surpassed. Bravo to the Danish team of Lasse Roedtnesand and his dad for a very impressive implementation and engineered transport. Kodak V3 50D color negative, 2K scan, Logmar S8 camera, Schneider 6-66mm zoom (C-Mount). Apprently there was some minor post processing by Friedemann as per his comment on Vimeo. https://vimeo.com/87243287 Logmar Camera Solutions: http://www.logmar.dk/ scan: Perry/GammaRayDigital and the LaserGraphics ScanStation (2K): http://www.gammaraydigital.com/ - OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT BY LOGMAR http://www.cinematography.com/index.php?showtopic=62603 Posted Today, 04:36 AM Hi there! This morning I received some awesome footage from Friedemann, who has been out filming with our original prototype camera. I think it's worth sharing even though the camera used, is not the final production model which we are still waiting for our subcontractors to deliver parts for. The footage has been 2K scanned by the good folks over at GammaRayDigital in Boston. Head over to our webpage at www.Logmar.dk and visit our sample video section to have a look, but please bring your comments back here for everyone to view and enjoy! we would like to thank the following people for their support: The users of Cinematography.com and Filmshooting.com for their endless amount of good ideas and valuable feedback Friedemann Wachsmuth for writing the great article at Filmkorn.org, and volunteering as a beta tester. Perry Paolantonio from GammaRayDigital for providing us with sponsored 2K scanning. Jürgen Lossau for writing the inspirational Super8 books as well as an article about our camera. As well as all the people out there who has shared our story on Facebook, twitter and other social medias! Best regards The Logmar Team ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Films made with Canon Scoopic 16mm camera
Thanks everyone, will check LaPore's work! Best, Adeena --- Message original --- Objet: Re: [Frameworks] Films made with Canon Scoopic 16mm camera De: r e roeen...@gmail.com À: Experimental Film Discussion List frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Date: mercredi, 19/02/2014 18:48:29 I second this! I saw Mark LaPore speak about his work at Anthology a few years back. It was both intimate and great. On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 12:30 PM, Steve Polta steve.po...@gmail.com wrote: Mark LaPore was a stalwart advocate of the Canon Scoopic and sang its praises to me one day long ago, describing it as basically a pumped up Super-8 camera (specifically a pumped up Canon 814-XLS): basically the thing is—unlike e.g. the Bolex and other 16mm cameras) a portable self-contained unit—automatic in-the-camera light metering, permanently attached zoom/macro lens and—best of all for LaPore (and for me) battery powered and thereby capable of long takes, up to the length of the 16mm roll (a little over three minutes). It's my understanding that most if not all of Mark LaPore's 16mm films were shot using this camera including A Depression in the Bay of Bengal, The Five Bad Elements, The Glass System, The Sleepers, Kolkata. Many (well, three) of these are available from Canyon Cinema: http://canyoncinema.com/catalog/filmmaker/?i=188 On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 6:13 AM, adeena@unil.ch wrote: Hi everyone, I'm trying to find examples of important films, or considered seminal works in the history of experimental cinema, made using a Canon Scoopic 16mm camera. Thanks for your help! Best, Adeena ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks -- ... ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Films made with Canon Scoopic 16mm camera
I am not a particular fan of Canon Scoopics, especially the earlier gray one (which had a terrible lens compared to the later black Scoopic 16MS). But I had one to sell. Mark LaPore wanted to buy it, and I did my best to talk him out of it, but he finally convinced me that for him it was a good choice. He was right. For Mark it was the ideal camera. For others wanting a 100-ft load camera for non-sync shooting, there are better choices — Bolex, Arri 16s, Filmo. But for Mark the Scoopic 16MS was perfect. Jeff Kreines On Feb 21, 2014, at 9:02 AM, adeena@unil.ch wrote: Thanks everyone, will check LaPore's work! Best, Adeena --- Message original --- Objet: Re: [Frameworks] Films made with Canon Scoopic 16mm camera De: r e roeen...@gmail.com À: Experimental Film Discussion List frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Date: mercredi, 19/02/2014 18:48:29 I second this! I saw Mark LaPore speak about his work at Anthology a few years back. It was both intimate and great. On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 12:30 PM, Steve Polta steve.po...@gmail.com wrote: Mark LaPore was a stalwart advocate of the Canon Scoopic and sang its praises to me one day long ago, describing it as basically a pumped up Super-8 camera (specifically a pumped up Canon 814-XLS): basically the thing is—unlike e.g. the Bolex and other 16mm cameras) a portable self-contained unit—automatic in-the-camera light metering, permanently attached zoom/macro lens and—best of all for LaPore (and for me) battery powered and thereby capable of long takes, up to the length of the 16mm roll (a little over three minutes). It's my understanding that most if not all of Mark LaPore's 16mm films were shot using this camera including A Depression in the Bay of Bengal, The Five Bad Elements, The Glass System, The Sleepers, Kolkata. Many (well, three) of these are available from Canyon Cinema: http://canyoncinema.com/catalog/filmmaker/?i=188 On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 6:13 AM, adeena@unil.ch wrote: Hi everyone, I'm trying to find examples of important films, or considered seminal works in the history of experimental cinema, made using a Canon Scoopic 16mm camera. Thanks for your help! Best, Adeena ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks -- ... ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks Jeff Kreines Kinetta j...@kinetta.com kinetta.com kinettaarchival.com ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
[Frameworks] question about fees for permission to use material (Caryn Cline)
Hi Caryn, $800 is a bit high on one hand, but also seems fair for adapting another artists/writers work to your film and for all the rights they are granting you.. you even have broadcast rights, which is a rarity! Maybe you think broadcast's a moot point, but at least it opens things up so that you don't ever have to sneak around... and streaming rights are definitely not moot! When I've worked with a writer I've tried to give him around that amount for the work that he did, since it was essential to making it what it is. I know that its a pain to give the money to the mothercorp, new york times, rather than directly to the writer, but they are also the ones hiring the writer for his work. That's the contract he signed. As well, It's probably good for him that they're able to monetize on his work beyond the original article, no matter how small. You're saying its about 1/3 the cost of the film. Is the soundtrack not 1/3 the experience of the film? I think its harder to apply fair use when you've already asked them what's fair to them. Also when you know the other creator, the concept of fair use gets trickier, doesn't it? I think its really about how essential you think this particular writer's work is to your film in terms of whether you pay for it or make up a new script of your own. Finally, just for fun: doesn't NYT's occasionally run videos on their site ? Maybe eventually they'll be interested in hosting your project since its derived from their writing--although only grant it if they pay you! best Chris Message: 2 Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 12:48:22 -0800 From: Caryn Cline carynycl...@gmail.com To: Experimental Film Discussion List FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com Subject: [Frameworks] question about fees for permission to use material Message-ID: CAMaLZ=am9noor12_pgncgsvc8z2eshs1yg1b8dgskxzvc+w...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dear Frameworkers, I'm writing to ask your advice. I'm working on a short handmade, experimental film that takes as its script a slightly modified version of an essay I found in the *New York Times*, which I plan to use as a voiceover narration on the soundtrack. I wrote to the author to ask his permission to use it, which he gladly gave with this caveat: everything he writes for the paper is owned by them. He gave me the name of someone to contact at the paper, who sent me to the paper's licensing people. I decided to follow that lead, to see where it went. [I have not had good luck with trying to get permission for a reasonable fee before, but I decided to try, as an experience.] Well, needless to say the people who license for the *Times* want me to pay them what I regard as way too much money for the use of the essay--$800 for rights for festivals, galleries, streaming, broadcast, etc.--for the life of the title. As you know, it is difficult to communicate to people in these positions that there is absolutely no commercial value in the film.The money is about 1/3 of my overall budget. Some of my handmade film buddies advised me to forget about the permission and just use it anyway, but I feel funny about doing that now, and as one friend who works in the business cautioned: my project and I are on their radar now. Should I try to talk them down? (They originally asked for $1300, so this is a considerable reduction from outrageously expensive to merely quite expensive.) Should I claim fair use, and use the text anyway? What are the chances that they would come after me?I'd appreciate any advice or hearing about your own experiences with this. Many thanks. CC -- Caryn Cline co-producer, *Acts of Witness* www.actsofwitness.com vimeo.com/carynyc -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/pipermail/frameworks/attachments/20140220/f5faeba3/attachment-0001.html -- ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] question about fees for permission to use material (Caryn Cline)
The soundtrack to James Benning's film Deseret consists entirely of some one reading NY Times articles aloud. I'm willing to bet he did not pay for the rights nor has been bothered by the NY Times about it. I say go for it. On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 11:29 AM, ch...@signaltoground.com wrote: Hi Caryn, $800 is a bit high on one hand, but also seems fair for adapting another artists/writers work to your film and for all the rights they are granting you.. you even have broadcast rights, which is a rarity! Maybe you think broadcast's a moot point, but at least it opens things up so that you don't ever have to sneak around... and streaming rights are definitely not moot! When I've worked with a writer I've tried to give him around that amount for the work that he did, since it was essential to making it what it is. I know that its a pain to give the money to the mothercorp, new york times, rather than directly to the writer, but they are also the ones hiring the writer for his work. That's the contract he signed. As well, It's probably good for him that they're able to monetize on his work beyond the original article, no matter how small. You're saying its about 1/3 the cost of the film. Is the soundtrack not 1/3 the experience of the film? I think its harder to apply fair use when you've already asked them what's fair to them. Also when you know the other creator, the concept of fair use gets trickier, doesn't it? I think its really about how essential you think this particular writer's work is to your film in terms of whether you pay for it or make up a new script of your own. Finally, just for fun: doesn't NYT's occasionally run videos on their site ? Maybe eventually they'll be interested in hosting your project since its derived from their writing--although only grant it if they pay you! best Chris Message: 2 Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 12:48:22 -0800 From: Caryn Cline carynycl...@gmail.com To: Experimental Film Discussion List FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com Subject: [Frameworks] question about fees for permission to use material Message-ID: CAMaLZ= am9noor12_pgncgsvc8z2eshs1yg1b8dgskxzvc+w...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dear Frameworkers, I'm writing to ask your advice. I'm working on a short handmade, experimental film that takes as its script a slightly modified version of an essay I found in the *New York Times*, which I plan to use as a voiceover narration on the soundtrack. I wrote to the author to ask his permission to use it, which he gladly gave with this caveat: everything he writes for the paper is owned by them. He gave me the name of someone to contact at the paper, who sent me to the paper's licensing people. I decided to follow that lead, to see where it went. [I have not had good luck with trying to get permission for a reasonable fee before, but I decided to try, as an experience.] Well, needless to say the people who license for the *Times* want me to pay them what I regard as way too much money for the use of the essay--$800 for rights for festivals, galleries, streaming, broadcast, etc.--for the life of the title. As you know, it is difficult to communicate to people in these positions that there is absolutely no commercial value in the film. The money is about 1/3 of my overall budget. Some of my handmade film buddies advised me to forget about the permission and just use it anyway, but I feel funny about doing that now, and as one friend who works in the business cautioned: my project and I are on their radar now. Should I try to talk them down? (They originally asked for $1300, so this is a considerable reduction from outrageously expensive to merely quite expensive.) Should I claim fair use, and use the text anyway? What are the chances that they would come after me?I'd appreciate any advice or hearing about your own experiences with this. Many thanks. CC -- Caryn Cline co-producer, *Acts of Witness* www.actsofwitness.com vimeo.com/carynyc -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/pipermail/frameworks/attachments/20140220/f5faeba3/attachment-0001.html -- ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks -- www.ryanmarino.com www.imminentfrequencies.com ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] question about fees for permission to use material (Caryn Cline)
The soundtrack to James Benning's film Deseret consists entirely of some one reading NY Times articles aloud. I'm willing to bet he did not pay for the rights nor has been bothered by the NY Times about it. I repeat my point that it is not the rights holder the experimental filmmaker needs to be concerned about but programmers and other gatekeepers who are afraid of the rights holders (however misplaced that fear may be.) No programmer in this field is going to say 'boo' to James Benning. For less well-known makers, especially people starting out, it's likely to be a different story. ch...@signaltoground.com wrote: I think its harder to apply fair use when you've already asked them what's fair to them. Er, no. It's a principle of law, not a matter for rights holders to decide themselves. Also when you know the other creator, the concept of fair use gets trickier, doesn't it? If someone you know demands a cash payment for something out of which you're unlikely to get even a penny in return, you need a better set of friends. ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
[Frameworks] searching for 16mm guillotine splicer
Hi folks! I am looking to purchase a 16mm guillotine style splicer, if anyone has leads I would love to hear about them. Thanks everyone! Roger D. WilsonFilm Scientist613 324 - 7504rogerdwilson@sympatico.cahttp://www.rogerdwilson.ca Without failure you can never achieve success. I have based my process and my career as an experimental film artist on this statement; and I welcome it as it pushes me forward as an artist to try something different, something new. ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] searching for 16mm guillotine splicer
Hi Roger, There are probably some deals to be had on eBay, or via a CML mailing list inquiry. CML unearths some surprising deals on older analog gear from folks who are eager to turn in the old for the new. Dwight Cody sells editing supplies, and I believe he stocks splicers. If you want something that comes with a quality guarantee, Dwight will probably offer a competitive deal on a close-to-mint splicer. He repairs/services them too, when the time comes. Website: http://www.cutfilm.com/ Happy hunting, Isaac On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 5:19 PM, Roger Wilson rogerdwil...@sympatico.cawrote: Hi folks! I am looking to purchase a 16mm guillotine style splicer, if anyone has leads I would love to hear about them. Thanks everyone! Roger D. Wilson Film Scientist 613 324 - 7504 rogerdwil...@sympatico.ca http://www.rogerdwilson.ca Without failure you can never achieve success. I have based my process and my career as an experimental film artist on this statement; and I welcome it as it pushes me forward as an artist to try something different, something new. ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] searching for 16mm guillotine splicer
Thanks Isaac! Yeah I did a search online and saw a few on ebay but the prices are a little too high for me. I had a nice catozzo but I had it stolen at a public event.:(. I have two great 35mm splicer and would consider trading one for a nice 16mm. Roger D. WilsonFilm Scientist613 324 - 7504rogerdwilson@sympatico.cahttp://www.rogerdwilson.ca Without failure you can never achieve success. I have based my process and my career as an experimental film artist on this statement; and I welcome it as it pushes me forward as an artist to try something different, something new. Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 17:27:29 -0600 From: isaacbrook...@gmail.com To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Subject: Re: [Frameworks] searching for 16mm guillotine splicer Hi Roger, There are probably some deals to be had on eBay, or via a CML mailing list inquiry. CML unearths some surprising deals on older analog gear from folks who are eager to turn in the old for the new. Dwight Cody sells editing supplies, and I believe he stocks splicers. If you want something that comes with a quality guarantee, Dwight will probably offer a competitive deal on a close-to-mint splicer. He repairs/services them too, when the time comes. Website: http://www.cutfilm.com/ Happy hunting, Isaac On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 5:19 PM, Roger Wilson rogerdwil...@sympatico.ca wrote: Hi folks! I am looking to purchase a 16mm guillotine style splicer, if anyone has leads I would love to hear about them. Thanks everyone! Roger D. WilsonFilm Scientist 613 324 - 7504 rogerdwil...@sympatico.ca http://www.rogerdwilson.ca Without failure you can never achieve success. I have based my process and my career as an experimental film artist on this statement; and I welcome it as it pushes me forward as an artist to try something different, something new. ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
[Frameworks] Film editing bench (table)
Anyone have any leads on where I could obtain for purchase ( or free) an editing bench with rewind cranks and perhaps a light box built in.? Also looking for S8/16 35mm viewers. Any leads are appreciated -- Daniel Maldonado Gashouse Films www.gashousefilms.com www.homeacronymfilm.com H.O.M.E. - *LIKE * our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/pages/HOME-the-film/167592933349015 ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
[Frameworks] 16mm telecine?
Hey guys, does anyone have any leads on 16mm telecine options that aren't fotokem? The place I used to go got rid of all their 16mm gear! and I had a real good hookup there that makes the $250/hr fee at fotokem hurt! preferably in LA ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] 16mm telecine?
Hi Mariah, It's been awhile since I have compared their rates, but Cineliscious is in LA, and they are more than film friendly. Wide variety of services in transferring film, last time I checked. Supervised sessions may still be slightly steep, there but they do top shelf work and are very small gauge/independent friendly. You may know them or have ruled them out already. Again, it's been awhile, and I'm not sure if they have increased their rates or not. Cinelab is not anywhere near LA (New Bedford, MA), but they have worked really hard to develope their scanning and HD tele services, and they do a lot of 16mm work. Their rates are competitive, and they too are a modest outfit that deals with a lot of different projects. Both places are worth cold calling, as they will each have folks who will be happy to speak with you, and possibly offer a deal. There are others, but I have less experience with them. Hope this helps, Isaac On Friday, February 21, 2014, mariah garnett mariah.garn...@gmail.com wrote: Hey guys, does anyone have any leads on 16mm telecine options that aren't fotokem? The place I used to go got rid of all their 16mm gear! and I had a real good hookup there that makes the $250/hr fee at fotokem hurt! preferably in LA ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] 16mm telecine?
What kind of telecine do you want? There are a lot of people who will do old-style video transfers at very reasonable prices. I can recommend Guy Spiller (www.guyspiller.com) who has a Marconi line-scanning telecine. Still, if you get an old-style video transfer you're stuck with interlace artifacts and pulldown artifacts that you won't have from a digital scan. The problem is that very few of the digital scanning systems will work properly scanning a print or reversal original. The Kinetta does lovely work from a reversal original but few other machines will. --scott ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] 16mm telecine?
i'm looking for 16mm negative to HD prores file transfer On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 7:57 PM, Scott Dorsey klu...@panix.com wrote: What kind of telecine do you want? There are a lot of people who will do old-style video transfers at very reasonable prices. I can recommend Guy Spiller (www.guyspiller.com) who has a Marconi line-scanning telecine. Still, if you get an old-style video transfer you're stuck with interlace artifacts and pulldown artifacts that you won't have from a digital scan. The problem is that very few of the digital scanning systems will work properly scanning a print or reversal original. The Kinetta does lovely work from a reversal original but few other machines will. --scott ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] 16mm telecine?
I think Pro8mm does it but it might even be more expensive than Fotokem? Stephanie Hutin Director of Production Intercollegiate Media Studies Mosbacher Gartrell Center for Media Experimentation and Activism Pitzer College 1050 North Mills Ave., West Hallx-apple-data-detectors://0 Claremont, CA 91711x-apple-data-detectors://1/0 909.607.3889tel:909.607.3889 stephanie_hu...@pitzer.edumailto:stephanie_hu...@pitzer.edu On Feb 21, 2014, at 9:13 PM, mariah garnett mariah.garn...@gmail.commailto:mariah.garn...@gmail.com wrote: i'm looking for 16mm negative to HD prores file transfer On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 7:57 PM, Scott Dorsey klu...@panix.commailto:klu...@panix.com wrote: What kind of telecine do you want? There are a lot of people who will do old-style video transfers at very reasonable prices. I can recommend Guy Spiller (www.guyspiller.comhttp://www.guyspiller.com) who has a Marconi line-scanning telecine. Still, if you get an old-style video transfer you're stuck with interlace artifacts and pulldown artifacts that you won't have from a digital scan. The problem is that very few of the digital scanning systems will work properly scanning a print or reversal original. The Kinetta does lovely work from a reversal original but few other machines will. --scott ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.commailto:FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.commailto:FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
