Re: [Frameworks] Developing Tanks for 16mm

[Rob Gawthrop]

Thanks Lindsay & Ed

Best Wishes

Rob

> On 20 Apr 2018, at 23:20, Ed Inman <edin...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> FWIW I found these original instructions online: 
> http://etienne.collomb.free.fr/morseg3/morseg3.html 
> <http://etienne.collomb.free.fr/morseg3/morseg3.html>
> Ed
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: lindsay mcintyre 
> Sent: Apr 20, 2018 5:05 PM 
> To: Experimental Film Discussion List 
> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Developing Tanks for 16mm 
> 
> Hi Rob,
> 
> In the G3 tank I've used several developers - these numbers are per 100ft of 
> 16mm - if I loaded 150-200 ft on the reel I would increase the times.  2L of 
> each solution at room temp - might need more for 35mm.  Its important to make 
> sure that you are winding emulsion OUT at least half the time.  I've done it 
> many times with other timings as well, based on the temperature of the 
> solution or whether the film was underexposed.  It always seems to work 
> pretty well.
> 
> D76 for 7222 
> dev 12 min (usually takes 1 minute to wind from head to tail so 12 winds)
> wash 6 min
> rapid fix 6-7 min
> wash 7 mins
> 
> D19 for 7363, 7231 and most other B+W stocks
> dev 5-7 mins
> wash 5 mins
> rapid fix 5-6 mins
> wash 7 mins
> 
> Best, 
> 
> Lindsay McIntyre
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 9:24 AM, Rob Gawthrop <r...@robgawthrop.co.uk 
> <mailto:r...@robgawthrop.co.uk>> wrote:
> Hi Lindsay
> 
> What developer & dilution do you use? I’ve been getting rather poor results 
> and it takes ages.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Rob
> 
> 
>> On 11 Apr 2018, at 18:13, lindsay mcintyre <email.li...@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:email.li...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Just in defence of the Morse G3 tank, I have several of these and I did all 
>> my black and white neg processing in these tanks for many years and always 
>> got beautiful results.  They're not as good for reversal processes, 
>> particularly if you are using permanganate bleach (even with the little 
>> exposure window) but for negative work they are great.  The process involves 
>> winding back and forth to achieve even processing and takes longer than say 
>> bucket processing, which is what I do now, but the G3 tanks have always 
>> worked well for me. I think depending on your developer, it can be about 12 
>> minutes of winding. 
>> 
>> Lindsay
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Scott Dorsey <klu...@panix.com 
>> <mailto:klu...@panix.com>> wrote:
>> I'm saying the results will be so uneven that you'll have long sections
>> that aren't developed at all.  A five-gallon bucket will do garbage can
>> development of 100 ft of 16mm well enough that, although it'll be severely
>> uneven, it'll at least be developed all the way through.  Folks used to
>> do motion analysis films that way.
>> --scott
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Re: [Frameworks] Developing Tanks for 16mm

[Ed Inman]

FWIW I found these original instructions online: http://etienne.collomb.free.fr/morseg3/morseg3.htmlEd-Original Message-
From: lindsay mcintyre <email.li...@gmail.com>
Sent: Apr 20, 2018 5:05 PM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com>
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Developing Tanks for 16mm

Hi Rob,In the G3 tank I've used several developers - these numbers are per 100ft of 16mm - if I loaded 150-200 ft on the reel I would increase the times.  2L of each solution at room temp - might need more for 35mm.  Its important to make sure that you are winding emulsion OUT at least half the time.  I've done it many times with other timings as well, based on the temperature of the solution or whether the film was underexposed.  It always seems to work pretty well.D76 for 7222 dev 12 min (usually takes 1 minute to wind from head to tail so 12 winds)wash 6 minrapid fix 6-7 minwash 7 minsD19 for 7363, 7231 and most other B+W stocksdev 5-7 minswash 5 minsrapid fix 5-6 minswash 7 minsBest, Lindsay McIntyreOn Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 9:24 AM, Rob Gawthrop <r...@robgawthrop.co.uk> wrote:Hi LindsayWhat developer & dilution do you use? I’ve been getting rather poor results and it takes ages.ThanksRobOn 11 Apr 2018, at 18:13, lindsay mcintyre <email.li...@gmail.com> wrote:Just in defence of the Morse G3 tank, I have several of these and I did all my black and white neg processing in these tanks for many years and always got beautiful results.  They're not as good for reversal processes, particularly if you are using permanganate bleach (even with the little exposure window) but for negative work they are great.  The process involves winding back and forth to achieve even processing and takes longer than say bucket processing, which is what I do now, but the G3 tanks have always worked well for me. I think depending on your developer, it can be about 12 minutes of winding. LindsayOn Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Scott Dorsey <klu...@panix.com> wrote:I'm saying the results will be so uneven that you'll have long sections
that aren't developed at all.  A five-gallon bucket will do garbage can
development of 100 ft of 16mm well enough that, although it'll be severely
uneven, it'll at least be developed all the way through.  Folks used to
do motion analysis films that way.
--scott
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Re: [Frameworks] Developing Tanks for 16mm

[lindsay mcintyre]

Hi Rob,

In the G3 tank I've used several developers - these numbers are per 100ft
of 16mm - if I loaded 150-200 ft on the reel I would increase the times.
2L of each solution at room temp - might need more for 35mm.  Its important
to make sure that you are winding emulsion OUT at least half the time.
I've done it many times with other timings as well, based on the
temperature of the solution or whether the film was underexposed.  It
always seems to work pretty well.

D76 for 7222
dev 12 min (usually takes 1 minute to wind from head to tail so 12 winds)
wash 6 min
rapid fix 6-7 min
wash 7 mins

D19 for 7363, 7231 and most other B+W stocks
dev 5-7 mins
wash 5 mins
rapid fix 5-6 mins
wash 7 mins

Best,

Lindsay McIntyre



On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 9:24 AM, Rob Gawthrop  wrote:

> Hi Lindsay
>
> What developer & dilution do you use? I’ve been getting rather poor
> results and it takes ages.
>
> Thanks
>
> Rob
>
>
> On 11 Apr 2018, at 18:13, lindsay mcintyre  wrote:
>
> Just in defence of the Morse G3 tank, I have several of these and I did
> all my black and white neg processing in these tanks for many years and
> always got beautiful results.  They're not as good for reversal processes,
> particularly if you are using permanganate bleach (even with the little
> exposure window) but for negative work they are great.  The process
> involves winding back and forth to achieve even processing and takes longer
> than say bucket processing, which is what I do now, but the G3 tanks have
> always worked well for me. I think depending on your developer, it can be
> about 12 minutes of winding.
>
> Lindsay
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Scott Dorsey  wrote:
>
>> I'm saying the results will be so uneven that you'll have long sections
>> that aren't developed at all.  A five-gallon bucket will do garbage can
>> development of 100 ft of 16mm well enough that, although it'll be severely
>> uneven, it'll at least be developed all the way through.  Folks used to
>> do motion analysis films that way.
>> --scott
>> ___
>> FrameWorks mailing list
>> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
>> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>>
>
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>
>
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Re: [Frameworks] Developing Tanks for 16mm

[lindsay mcintyre]

Just in defence of the Morse G3 tank, I have several of these and I did all
my black and white neg processing in these tanks for many years and always
got beautiful results.  They're not as good for reversal processes,
particularly if you are using permanganate bleach (even with the little
exposure window) but for negative work they are great.  The process
involves winding back and forth to achieve even processing and takes longer
than say bucket processing, which is what I do now, but the G3 tanks have
always worked well for me. I think depending on your developer, it can be
about 12 minutes of winding.

Lindsay


On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Scott Dorsey  wrote:

> I'm saying the results will be so uneven that you'll have long sections
> that aren't developed at all.  A five-gallon bucket will do garbage can
> development of 100 ft of 16mm well enough that, although it'll be severely
> uneven, it'll at least be developed all the way through.  Folks used to
> do motion analysis films that way.
> --scott
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> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
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>
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Re: [Frameworks] Developing Tanks for 16mm

[Jon Behrens]

Hi Ed
I have always used a black 3 gallon bucket with a lid, works great for sloppy 
16mm hand processing , lots of artifacts!

Have fun

Jon

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 9, 2018, at 1:15 PM, Ed Inman 
<edin...@earthlink.net<mailto:edin...@earthlink.net>> wrote:

There are a bunch of Russian LOMO 16mm tanks on ebay right now starting at 
around $100. I think they are designed to hold two lengths of 15m or about 50 
feet at a time when developing so you then have to splice the two parts 
together of a 100' spool after processing for projection. These are probably 
your best bet. Once in a blue moon you will also see the large steel 100 foot 
slot type developing reels for sale from the 1940s. These work well too but you 
have to always remember to insert the unprocessed film emulsion side out.

-Original Message-
From: Kevin T Allen
Sent: Apr 9, 2018 2:02 PM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: [Frameworks] Developing Tanks for 16mm

Hi Frameworkers,

I'm looking for some advice of developing tanks for 16mm film. I've processed 
quite a bit of S8mm rolls using a 2x120 tank and liked the hand-processing 
artifacts to clean processing ratio, but thinking 100' of 16mm would be too 
much for this sized tank.

Does anyone have a recommendation?

I'm thinking of the 3x120 version made by Paterson:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/40339-REG/Paterson_PTP117_Multi_Reel_5_Tank_Super.html?ap=y=1876%2C52934714882%2C%2C=Cj0KCQjwnqzWBRC_ARIsABSMVTM45DbAOA0agp5qnSp96KbnX7_0A_pzfSc6UWlTMtfXR3qRK4bB9FcaAtyxEALw_wcB

-OR-

The 5x120 version also by Paterson (too much?):
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/40340-REG/Paterson_PTP118_Multi_Reel_8_Tank_Super.html?ap=y=1876%2C52934714882%2C%2C=Cj0KCQjwnqzWBRC_ARIsABSMVTOC1Y0dkI8OjXZLTZGrtn-EfxHbCAjA0-xcABHOXwBh5IiOINOhRoUaAol3EALw_wcB

Thanks in advance!
Kevin


--
Kevin T. Allen | ke...@smallgauge.org<mailto:ke...@smallgauge.org>
smallgauge.org<http://smallgauge.org> | kevintallen.com<http://kevintallen.com>

[https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download=0B7uFwheNx2zpQUR1ajBHN3dpSGs=0B7uFwheNx2zpQTdlRTVkanZ5d1E4MTBiV05lY1RRcGVxVC84PQ]
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Re: [Frameworks] Developing Tanks for 16mm

[Kevin T Allen]

Thanks, All! I was considering getting a Lomo and I still might do it, but
I actually like the uneven results from the 120 tanks ("garbage
canning")...at least the results I got with S8mm.

Scott, are you saying that there's not enough real-estate in these tanks to
get any good results at all or are you just thinking that the results will
be uneven?

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 4:22 PM, Ed Inman <edin...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> You will also run across the "G-3 Rewind" type tank from time to time but
> frankly unless you just want to experiment I'd stay away from them. I have
> never been able to get consistent results using that type of tank. I think
> the Russian LOMO tanks are a better bet.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Kevin T Allen
> Sent: Apr 9, 2018 2:02 PM
> To: Experimental Film Discussion List
> Subject: [Frameworks] Developing Tanks for 16mm
>
> Hi Frameworkers,
>
> I'm looking for some advice of developing tanks for 16mm film. I've
> processed quite a bit of S8mm rolls using a 2x120 tank and liked the
> hand-processing artifacts to clean processing ratio, but thinking 100' of
> 16mm would be too much for this sized tank.
>
> Does anyone have a recommendation?
>
> I'm thinking of the 3x120 version made by Paterson:
> https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/40339-REG/Paterson_PT
> P117_Multi_Reel_5_Tank_Super.html?ap=y=1876%2C5293471
> 4882%2C%2C=Cj0KCQjwnqzWBRC_ARIsABSMVTM45DbAOA0agp5qnSp
> 96KbnX7_0A_pzfSc6UWlTMtfXR3qRK4bB9FcaAtyxEALw_wcB
>
> -OR-
>
> The 5x120 version also by Paterson (too much?):
> https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/40340-REG/Paterson_PT
> P118_Multi_Reel_8_Tank_Super.html?ap=y=1876%2C5293471
> 4882%2C%2C=Cj0KCQjwnqzWBRC_ARIsABSMVTOC1Y0dkI8OjXZLTZG
> rtn-EfxHbCAjA0-xcABHOXwBh5IiOINOhRoUaAol3EALw_wcB
>
> Thanks in advance!
> Kevin
>
>
> --
> Kevin T. Allen | ke...@smallgauge.org
> smallgauge.org | kevintallen.com
>
>
>
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>


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smallgauge.org | kevintallen.com
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Re: [Frameworks] Developing Tanks for 16mm

[Ed Inman]

You will also run across the "G-3 Rewind" type tank from time to time but frankly unless you just want to experiment I'd stay away from them. I have never been able to get consistent results using that type of tank. I think the Russian LOMO tanks are a better bet. -Original Message-
From: Kevin T Allen <kevintal...@gmail.com>
Sent: Apr 9, 2018 2:02 PM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com>
Subject: [Frameworks] Developing Tanks for 16mm

Hi Frameworkers,I'm looking for some advice of developing tanks for 16mm film. I've processed quite a bit of S8mm rolls using a 2x120 tank and liked the hand-processing artifacts to clean processing ratio, but thinking 100' of 16mm would be too much for this sized tank.Does anyone have a recommendation?I'm thinking of the 3x120 version made by Paterson:https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/40339-REG/Paterson_PTP117_Multi_Reel_5_Tank_Super.html?ap=y=1876%2C52934714882%2C%2C=Cj0KCQjwnqzWBRC_ARIsABSMVTM45DbAOA0agp5qnSp96KbnX7_0A_pzfSc6UWlTMtfXR3qRK4bB9FcaAtyxEALw_wcB-OR-The 5x120 version also by Paterson (too much?):https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/40340-REG/Paterson_PTP118_Multi_Reel_8_Tank_Super.html?ap=y=1876%2C52934714882%2C%2C=Cj0KCQjwnqzWBRC_ARIsABSMVTOC1Y0dkI8OjXZLTZGrtn-EfxHbCAjA0-xcABHOXwBh5IiOINOhRoUaAol3EALw_wcBThanks in advance!Kevin-- Kevin T. Allen | ke...@smallgauge.orgsmallgauge.org | kevintallen.com


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Re: [Frameworks] Developing Tanks for 16mm

[Scott Dorsey]

Are you just garbage-canning the film into tanks with no reels?  If so,
these are all WAY too small to do 100-foot lengths anything approaching
completely.
--scott
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Re: [Frameworks] Developing Tanks for 16mm

[Ed Inman]

There are a bunch of Russian LOMO 16mm tanks on ebay right now starting at around $100. I think they are designed to hold two lengths of 15m or about 50 feet at a time when developing so you then have to splice the two parts together of a 100' spool after processing for projection. These are probably your best bet. Once in a blue moon you will also see the large steel 100 foot slot type developing reels for sale from the 1940s. These work well too but you have to always remember to insert the unprocessed film emulsion side out. -Original Message-
From: Kevin T Allen <kevintal...@gmail.com>
Sent: Apr 9, 2018 2:02 PM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com>
Subject: [Frameworks] Developing Tanks for 16mm

Hi Frameworkers,I'm looking for some advice of developing tanks for 16mm film. I've processed quite a bit of S8mm rolls using a 2x120 tank and liked the hand-processing artifacts to clean processing ratio, but thinking 100' of 16mm would be too much for this sized tank.Does anyone have a recommendation?I'm thinking of the 3x120 version made by Paterson:https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/40339-REG/Paterson_PTP117_Multi_Reel_5_Tank_Super.html?ap=y=1876%2C52934714882%2C%2C=Cj0KCQjwnqzWBRC_ARIsABSMVTM45DbAOA0agp5qnSp96KbnX7_0A_pzfSc6UWlTMtfXR3qRK4bB9FcaAtyxEALw_wcB-OR-The 5x120 version also by Paterson (too much?):https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/40340-REG/Paterson_PTP118_Multi_Reel_8_Tank_Super.html?ap=y=1876%2C52934714882%2C%2C=Cj0KCQjwnqzWBRC_ARIsABSMVTOC1Y0dkI8OjXZLTZGrtn-EfxHbCAjA0-xcABHOXwBh5IiOINOhRoUaAol3EALw_wcBThanks in advance!Kevin-- Kevin T. Allen | ke...@smallgauge.orgsmallgauge.org | kevintallen.com


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