Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

2012-03-04 Thread Gene Youngblood
When I asked him about Wavelength he claimed he didn’t remember even writing 
such a list. I don’t know which issue of Film Comment it was in, and a search 
of their back issues yields no results. Maybe Mike knows. I was often struck by 
the ambiguity of George’s comments, not sure if he was praising or dismissing. 
That was intentional no doubt.

From: Steve Polta 
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 11:08 AM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

  Well it certainly would have been interesting to hear George Kuchar's 
take on WAVELENGTH. In my experience he always had these funny contrarian takes 
on "avant-garde" films. I never sat down and had discussions with him about 
this but he would often throw out these one-liners that were hilarious. For 
example, about Rose Lowder's "Bouquet" films, "Oh. Really nice color in those 
movies." About a Nathaniel Dorsky film with lots of very dark shots, "I'll have 
to bring my night vision goggles next time." About Jeffrey Skoller's "The 
Malady of Death" (relayed by Skoller): "Whatever it is you did, Jeff, it 
couldn't have been that bad." Say these lines to yourself in your best G. 
Kuchar voice and you'll see what I'm talking.

  No doubt that George knew this stuff as well as anyone. But it is really 
his irreverence and his refusal to take anything in life too seriously that I 
find to be the most inspiring about this amazing man...

  Steve Polta



      --- On Sun, 3/4/12, gregg biermann  wrote:


From: gregg biermann 
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars
To: "Gene Youngblood" , "Experimental Film 
Discussion List" 
Date: Sunday, March 4, 2012, 5:28 AM


Yes, Yes. That was it. Thanks Gene.

On 3/3/2012 3:06 PM, Gene Youngblood wrote: 
  Gregg, the diary you’re thinking of is “Low Light Life” (1988). 
George walks into a room at SFAI where Ken Jacobs is conducting a seminar, 
looking for food. Ken is extremely rude to George, insulting him in front of 
the students, and George walks out. It’s an embarrassing scene, not unusual for 
Ken, but it’s nevertheless interesting since it was at Ken’s loft in NYC that 
the Kuchar brothers first showed their films to the New York underground crowd. 
Yes, George loved the films he caricatured, and his stance is never 
condescending (the same cannot be said for his pal John Waters, by way of 
comparison). George’s knowledge of Hollywood film history was amazing, and his 
film and soundtrack collections were legendary, but he loved all kinds of 
movies. A few years ago Film Comment asked some well known filmmakers to list 
their top ten favorite movies. On George’s list were titles you would expect, 
but he also included “Wavelength” and Antonioni’s “Eclipse.”

  From: gregg biermann 
          Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 8:32 AM
  To: Experimental Film Discussion List 
  Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

  The other thing here is that George's position on the mainstream 
commercial cinema was not purely oppositional -- that there is also some sense 
of homage to it in his work.  You could even argue that he was alienated to 
some degree when it came to the avant-garde film community -- even as it 
embraced him. I remember in one of his diary pieces he documents a little 
lecture by Ken Jacobs at SFAI that he attended and he ends up walking out with 
Ken yelling after him "George, Come back here!"  Then he ends up at some party 
in Hollywood sitting on a couch with Nicolas Cage (or some star like that)  and 
he ends up feeling uncomfortably out of place there as well. Cannot remember 
the title -- sometime around 1991.
  G


  On 2/29/2012 8:43 AM, 
wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=sc...@financialcleansing.com wrote: 
Sorry, Fred, here I disagree with you.


I'm sure the Hollywood folks could have added many other people 
(many of them worthy) to the list of those recognized in that memorial moment, 
too. But that three of those recognized--George Kuchar, Tim Hetherington, and 
Ricky Leacock--are makers who worked outside Hollywood, as independents, is 
certainly cause for celebration. It means that, in a however limited way, 
independent filmmakers are being recognized more broadly, as they so rightly 
deserve. That Saint Mark Toscano, working at the Academy, has seen to the 
preservation not only of Brakhage's films but Robert Nelson's, and the work of 
so many other independents is part of that same recognition.

Like it or not, the Academy is one of few organizations devoted to 
cinema that has the clout to provide broad recognition, and I was thrilled to 
see their images on my TV screen on primetime Sunday night. Kudos to the 
Academy for recognizing Kuchar, H

Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

2012-03-04 Thread Steve Polta
Well it certainly would have been interesting to hear George Kuchar's take on 
WAVELENGTH. In my experience he always had these funny contrarian takes on 
"avant-garde" films. I never sat down and had discussions with him about this 
but he would often throw out these one-liners that were hilarious. For example, 
about Rose Lowder's "Bouquet" films, "Oh. Really nice color in those movies." 
About a Nathaniel Dorsky film with lots of very dark shots, "I'll have to bring 
my night vision goggles next time." About Jeffrey Skoller's "The Malady of 
Death" (relayed by Skoller): "Whatever it is you did, Jeff, it couldn't have 
been that bad." Say these lines to yourself in your best G. Kuchar voice and 
you'll see what I'm talking.

No doubt that George knew this stuff as well as anyone. But it is really his 
irreverence and his refusal to take anything in life too seriously that I find 
to be the most inspiring about this amazing man...

Steve Polta



--- On Sun, 3/4/12, gregg biermann  wrote:

From: gregg biermann 
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars
To: "Gene Youngblood" , "Experimental Film Discussion List" 

Date: Sunday, March 4, 2012, 5:28 AM


  

  
  
Yes, Yes. That was it. Thanks Gene.



On 3/3/2012 3:06 PM, Gene Youngblood wrote:

  
  

  Gregg, the diary you’re thinking of is “Low Light Life”
(1988). George walks into a room at SFAI where Ken Jacobs is
conducting a seminar, looking for food. Ken is extremely
rude to George, insulting him in front of the students, and
George walks out. It’s an embarrassing scene, not unusual
for Ken, but it’s nevertheless interesting since it was at
Ken’s loft in NYC that the Kuchar brothers first showed
their films to the New York underground crowd. Yes, George
loved the films he caricatured, and his stance is never
condescending (the same cannot be said for his pal John
Waters, by way of comparison). George’s knowledge of
Hollywood film history was amazing, and his film and
soundtrack collections were legendary, but he loved all
kinds of movies. A few years ago Film Comment asked some
well known filmmakers to list their top ten favorite movies.
On George’s list were titles you would expect, but he also
included “Wavelength” and Antonioni’s “Eclipse.”
  

   
  
From: gregg biermann

Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 8:32 AM
            To: Experimental
    Film Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the
  Oscars
  

 
  
  The other thing here is that
George's position on the mainstream commercial cinema was
not purely oppositional -- that there is also some sense of
homage to it in his work.  You could even argue that he was
alienated to some degree when it came to the avant-garde
film community -- even as it embraced him. I remember in one
of his diary pieces he documents a little lecture by Ken
Jacobs at SFAI that he attended and he ends up walking out
with Ken yelling after him "George, Come back here!"  Then
he ends up at some party in Hollywood sitting on a couch
with Nicolas Cage (or some star like that)  and he ends up
feeling uncomfortably out of place there as well. Cannot
remember the title -- sometime around 1991.

G





On 2/29/2012 8:43 AM, sc...@financialcleansing.com
wrote:

Sorry, Fred, here I disagree with you.


  
I'm sure the Hollywood folks could have added
many other people (many of them worthy) to the list
of those recognized in that memorial moment, too.
But that three of those recognized--George Kuchar,
Tim Hetherington, and Ricky Leacock--are makers who
worked outside Hollywood, as independents, is
certainly cause for celebration. It means that, in a
however limited way, independent filmmakers are
being recognized more broadly, as they so rightly
deserve. That Saint Mark Toscano, working at the
Academy, has seen to the preservation not only of
Brakhage's films but Robert Nelson's, and the work
of so many oth

Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

2012-03-04 Thread gregg biermann

Yes, Yes. That was it. Thanks Gene.

On 3/3/2012 3:06 PM, Gene Youngblood wrote:
Gregg, the diary you’re thinking of is “Low Light Life” (1988). George 
walks into a room at SFAI where Ken Jacobs is conducting a seminar, 
looking for food. Ken is extremely rude to George, insulting him in 
front of the students, and George walks out. It’s an embarrassing 
scene, not unusual for Ken, but it’s nevertheless interesting since it 
was at Ken’s loft in NYC that the Kuchar brothers first showed their 
films to the New York underground crowd. Yes, George loved the films 
he caricatured, and his stance is never condescending (the same cannot 
be said for his pal John Waters, by way of comparison). George’s 
knowledge of Hollywood film history was amazing, and his film and 
soundtrack collections were legendary, but he loved all kinds of 
movies. A few years ago Film Comment asked some well known filmmakers 
to list their top ten favorite movies. On George’s list were titles 
you would expect, but he also included “Wavelength” and Antonioni’s 
“Eclipse.”

*From:* gregg biermann <mailto:mubba...@optonline.net>
*Sent:* Saturday, March 03, 2012 8:32 AM
*To:* Experimental Film Discussion List 
<mailto:frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com>

*Subject:* Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars
The other thing here is that George's position on the mainstream 
commercial cinema was not purely oppositional -- that there is also 
some sense of homage to it in his work.  You could even argue that he 
was alienated to some degree when it came to the avant-garde film 
community -- even as it embraced him. I remember in one of his diary 
pieces he documents a little lecture by Ken Jacobs at SFAI that he 
attended and he ends up walking out with Ken yelling after him 
"George, Come back here!"  Then he ends up at some party in Hollywood 
sitting on a couch with Nicolas Cage (or some star like that)  and he 
ends up feeling uncomfortably out of place there as well. Cannot 
remember the title -- sometime around 1991.

G


On 2/29/2012 8:43 AM, sc...@financialcleansing.com wrote:

*Sorry, Fred, here I disagree with you.*
*
*
*I'm sure the Hollywood folks could have added many other people 
(many of them worthy) to the list of those recognized in that 
memorial moment, too. But that three of those recognized--George 
Kuchar, Tim Hetherington, and Ricky Leacock--are makers who worked 
outside Hollywood, as independents, is certainly cause for 
celebration. It means that, in a however limited way, independent 
filmmakers are being recognized more broadly, as they so rightly 
deserve. That Saint Mark Toscano, working at the Academy, has seen to 
the preservation not only of Brakhage's films but Robert Nelson's, 
and the work of so many other independents is part of that same 
recognition.*
*Like it or not, the Academy is one of few organizations devoted to 
cinema that has the clout to provide broad recognition, and I was 
thrilled to see their images on my TV screen on primetime Sunday 
night. Kudos to the Academy for recognizing Kuchar, Hetherington, and 
Leacock.*

*
*
*Scott*

---- Original Message --------
    Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars
From: "Fred Camper" mailto:f...@fredcamper.com>>
Date: Tue, February 28, 2012 7:44 pm
To: "Experimental Film Discussion List"
mailto:frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com>>

> Yes ­ Owen Land, Ricky Leacock, and Jordan Belson as well.

Oh, why not Hollis Frampton, and Stan Brakhage, and Gregory J.
Markopoulos? Or Oscars to Ernie Gehr and Bruce Baillie, who are
among the
living?

Or, one might ask, how likely is any of that?

In all seriousness, am I the only one who finds the many posts in
this
thread a little bizarre?

I thought it was nice when Brakhage was briefly acknowlwedged in
the Oscar
montage, and it's nice when other experimental filmmakers are
acknowledged
too. But when we start talking about awards, have we forgotten
what the
Oscars are, and what values they represent, and how different the
values
of avant-garde film are? Why should we expect, or even want, more
than a
passing nod from the Academy as it is currently constituted? It's
really
great that the money from the Oscar-cast goes to film preservation,
including of avant-garde work. Is there any reason to expect more?

Fred Camper
Chicago

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_

Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

2012-03-03 Thread Gene Youngblood
Gregg, the diary you’re thinking of is “Low Light Life” (1988). George walks 
into a room at SFAI where Ken Jacobs is conducting a seminar, looking for food. 
Ken is extremely rude to George, insulting him in front of the students, and 
George walks out. It’s an embarrassing scene, not unusual for Ken, but it’s 
nevertheless interesting since it was at Ken’s loft in NYC that the Kuchar 
brothers first showed their films to the New York underground crowd. Yes, 
George loved the films he caricatured, and his stance is never condescending 
(the same cannot be said for his pal John Waters, by way of comparison). 
George’s knowledge of Hollywood film history was amazing, and his film and 
soundtrack collections were legendary, but he loved all kinds of movies. A few 
years ago Film Comment asked some well known filmmakers to list their top ten 
favorite movies. On George’s list were titles you would expect, but he also 
included “Wavelength” and Antonioni’s “Eclipse.”

From: gregg biermann 
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 8:32 AM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

The other thing here is that George's position on the mainstream commercial 
cinema was not purely oppositional -- that there is also some sense of homage 
to it in his work.  You could even argue that he was alienated to some degree 
when it came to the avant-garde film community -- even as it embraced him. I 
remember in one of his diary pieces he documents a little lecture by Ken Jacobs 
at SFAI that he attended and he ends up walking out with Ken yelling after him 
"George, Come back here!"  Then he ends up at some party in Hollywood sitting 
on a couch with Nicolas Cage (or some star like that)  and he ends up feeling 
uncomfortably out of place there as well. Cannot remember the title -- sometime 
around 1991.
G


On 2/29/2012 8:43 AM, sc...@financialcleansing.com wrote: 
  Sorry, Fred, here I disagree with you.


  I'm sure the Hollywood folks could have added many other people (many of them 
worthy) to the list of those recognized in that memorial moment, too. But that 
three of those recognized--George Kuchar, Tim Hetherington, and Ricky 
Leacock--are makers who worked outside Hollywood, as independents, is certainly 
cause for celebration. It means that, in a however limited way, independent 
filmmakers are being recognized more broadly, as they so rightly deserve. That 
Saint Mark Toscano, working at the Academy, has seen to the preservation not 
only of Brakhage's films but Robert Nelson's, and the work of so many other 
independents is part of that same recognition.

  Like it or not, the Academy is one of few organizations devoted to cinema 
that has the clout to provide broad recognition, and I was thrilled to see 
their images on my TV screen on primetime Sunday night. Kudos to the Academy 
for recognizing Kuchar, Hetherington, and Leacock.


  Scott

 Original Message ----
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars
From: "Fred Camper" 
Date: Tue, February 28, 2012 7:44 pm
To: "Experimental Film Discussion List"


> Yes ­ Owen Land, Ricky Leacock, and Jordan Belson as well.

Oh, why not Hollis Frampton, and Stan Brakhage, and Gregory J.
Markopoulos? Or Oscars to Ernie Gehr and Bruce Baillie, who are among the
living?

Or, one might ask, how likely is any of that?

In all seriousness, am I the only one who finds the many posts in this
thread a little bizarre?

I thought it was nice when Brakhage was briefly acknowlwedged in the Oscar
montage, and it's nice when other experimental filmmakers are acknowledged
too. But when we start talking about awards, have we forgotten what the
Oscars are, and what values they represent, and how different the values
of avant-garde film are? Why should we expect, or even want, more than a
passing nod from the Academy as it is currently constituted? It's really
great that the money from the Oscar-cast goes to film preservation,
including of avant-garde work. Is there any reason to expect more?

Fred Camper
Chicago

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Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

2012-03-03 Thread gregg biermann
The other thing here is that George's position on the mainstream 
commercial cinema was not purely oppositional -- that there is also some 
sense of homage to it in his work.  You could even argue that he was 
alienated to some degree when it came to the avant-garde film community 
-- even as it embraced him. I remember in one of his diary pieces he 
documents a little lecture by Ken Jacobs at SFAI that he attended and he 
ends up walking out with Ken yelling after him "George, Come back 
here!"  Then he ends up at some party in Hollywood sitting on a couch 
with Nicolas Cage (or some star like that)  and he ends up feeling 
uncomfortably out of place there as well. Cannot remember the title -- 
sometime around 1991.

G


On 2/29/2012 8:43 AM, sc...@financialcleansing.com wrote:

*Sorry, Fred, here I disagree with you.*
*
*
*I'm sure the Hollywood folks could have added many other people (many 
of them worthy) to the list of those recognized in that memorial 
moment, too. But that three of those recognized--George Kuchar, Tim 
Hetherington, and Ricky Leacock--are makers who worked outside 
Hollywood, as independents, is certainly cause for celebration. It 
means that, in a however limited way, independent filmmakers are being 
recognized more broadly, as they so rightly deserve. That Saint Mark 
Toscano, working at the Academy, has seen to the preservation not only 
of Brakhage's films but Robert Nelson's, and the work of so many other 
independents is part of that same recognition.*


*Like it or not, the Academy is one of few organizations devoted to 
cinema that has the clout to provide broad recognition, and I was 
thrilled to see their images on my TV screen on primetime Sunday 
night. Kudos to the Academy for recognizing Kuchar, Hetherington, and 
Leacock.*

*
*
*Scott*

 Original Message ----
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars
From: "Fred Camper" mailto:f...@fredcamper.com>>
Date: Tue, February 28, 2012 7:44 pm
To: "Experimental Film Discussion List"
mailto:frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com>>

> Yes ­ Owen Land, Ricky Leacock, and Jordan Belson as well.

Oh, why not Hollis Frampton, and Stan Brakhage, and Gregory J.
Markopoulos? Or Oscars to Ernie Gehr and Bruce Baillie, who are
among the
living?

Or, one might ask, how likely is any of that?

In all seriousness, am I the only one who finds the many posts in this
thread a little bizarre?

I thought it was nice when Brakhage was briefly acknowlwedged in
the Oscar
montage, and it's nice when other experimental filmmakers are
acknowledged
too. But when we start talking about awards, have we forgotten
what the
Oscars are, and what values they represent, and how different the
values
of avant-garde film are? Why should we expect, or even want, more
than a
passing nod from the Academy as it is currently constituted? It's
really
great that the money from the Oscar-cast goes to film preservation,
including of avant-garde work. Is there any reason to expect more?

Fred Camper
Chicago

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Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

2012-02-29 Thread scott
Sorry, Fred, here I disagree with you.I'm sure the Hollywood folks could have added many other people (many of them worthy) to the list of those recognized in that memorial moment, too. But that three of those recognized--George Kuchar, Tim Hetherington, and Ricky Leacock--are makers who worked outside Hollywood, as independents, is certainly cause for celebration. It means that, in a however limited way, independent filmmakers are being recognized more broadly, as they so rightly deserve. That Saint Mark Toscano, working at the Academy, has seen to the preservation not only of Brakhage's films but Robert Nelson's, and the work of so many other independents is part of that same recognition.Like it or not, the Academy is one of few organizations devoted to cinema that has the clout to provide broad recognition, and I was thrilled to see their images on my TV screen on primetime Sunday night. Kudos to the Academy for recognizing Kuchar, Hetherington, and Leacock.Scott


 Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars
From: "Fred Camper" <f...@fredcamper.com>
Date: Tue, February 28, 2012 7:44 pm
To: "Experimental Film Discussion List"
<frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com>

> Yes ­ Owen Land, Ricky Leacock, and Jordan Belson as well.

Oh, why not Hollis Frampton, and Stan Brakhage, and Gregory J.
Markopoulos? Or Oscars to Ernie Gehr and Bruce Baillie, who are among the
living?

Or, one might ask, how likely is any of that?

In all seriousness, am I the only one who finds the many posts in this
thread a little bizarre?

I thought it was nice when Brakhage was briefly acknowlwedged in the Oscar
montage, and it's nice when other experimental filmmakers are acknowledged
too. But when we start talking about awards, have we forgotten what the
Oscars are, and what values they represent, and how different the values
of avant-garde film are? Why should we expect, or even want, more than a
passing nod from the Academy as it is currently constituted? It's really
great that the money from the Oscar-cast goes to film preservation,
including of avant-garde work. Is there any reason to expect more?

Fred Camper
Chicago

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Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

2012-02-28 Thread Huckleberry Lain
I do have to admit that I cannot think of anyone else in the underground,
experimental, avant-garde, what-ever-you-want-to-call-it filmmaking scene
that has had more intense, wide reaching and personal influence then the
Kuchar Brothers.  Brakhage, too, but in a way his work still seems kind of
distanced and separate from most "regular" cinema, "movies" if you will.
Brakhage's work is closer to art then "movies" for me (not that I like to
segregate or label in that way).  George and Mike really influenced many
generations of filmmakers and made them passionate about *making* films.
Mike told me once that he met George Lucas and Lucas shook his hand and
told him that he was a big fan of their work.
Something about them really brought movie making down to a regular level
and that empowered so many people.  It's always great to hear about and I
will miss George a lot.
Because of this I think it would make more sense to give George and Mike
extra recognition then anyone else I can think of within this.area, I
guess you could say, of cinema.

But hey, who am I?  I sure as heck am not on the Academy list.  Never made
or worked on a movie that an Academy member even saw, probably...

On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 9:22 PM, Beverly O'Neill wrote:

> So right about this, Fred.
>
> Beverly O'Neill
> Los Angeles
> On Feb 28, 2012, at 6:44 PM, Fred Camper wrote:
>
> >> Yes ­ Owen Land, Ricky Leacock, and Jordan Belson as well.
> >
> > Oh, why not Hollis Frampton, and Stan Brakhage, and Gregory J.
> > Markopoulos? Or Oscars to Ernie Gehr and Bruce Baillie, who are among the
> > living?
> >
> > Or, one might ask, how likely is any of that?
> >
> > In all seriousness, am I the only one who finds the many posts in this
> > thread a little bizarre?
> >
> > I thought it was nice when Brakhage was briefly acknowlwedged in the
> Oscar
> > montage, and it's nice when other experimental filmmakers are
> acknowledged
> > too. But when we start talking about awards, have we forgotten what the
> > Oscars are, and what values they represent, and how different the values
> > of avant-garde film are? Why should we expect, or even want, more than a
> > passing nod from the Academy as it is currently constituted? It's really
> > great that the money from the Oscar-cast goes to film preservation,
> > including of avant-garde work. Is there any reason to expect more?
> >
> > Fred Camper
> > Chicago
> >
> > ___
> > FrameWorks mailing list
> > FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
> > https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>
> ___
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>



-- 
hypnotic visions - huckleberrylain.net
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Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

2012-02-28 Thread Beverly O'Neill
So right about this, Fred.

Beverly O'Neill
Los Angeles
On Feb 28, 2012, at 6:44 PM, Fred Camper wrote:

>> Yes ­ Owen Land, Ricky Leacock, and Jordan Belson as well.
> 
> Oh, why not Hollis Frampton, and Stan Brakhage, and Gregory J.
> Markopoulos? Or Oscars to Ernie Gehr and Bruce Baillie, who are among the
> living?
> 
> Or, one might ask, how likely is any of that?
> 
> In all seriousness, am I the only one who finds the many posts in this
> thread a little bizarre?
> 
> I thought it was nice when Brakhage was briefly acknowlwedged in the Oscar
> montage, and it's nice when other experimental filmmakers are acknowledged
> too. But when we start talking about awards, have we forgotten what the
> Oscars are, and what values they represent, and how different the values
> of avant-garde film are? Why should we expect, or even want, more than a
> passing nod from the Academy as it is currently constituted? It's really
> great that the money from the Oscar-cast goes to film preservation,
> including of avant-garde work. Is there any reason to expect more?
> 
> Fred Camper
> Chicago
> 
> ___
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
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Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

2012-02-28 Thread adam
Oh. Guess I forgot the smiley or the disclaimer with my post.

Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

-Original Message-
From: "Fred Camper" 
Sender: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 20:44:28 
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Reply-To: f...@fredcamper.com,
Experimental Film Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

> Yes ­ Owen Land, Ricky Leacock, and Jordan Belson as well.

Oh, why not Hollis Frampton, and Stan Brakhage, and Gregory J.
Markopoulos? Or Oscars to Ernie Gehr and Bruce Baillie, who are among the
living?

Or, one might ask, how likely is any of that?

In all seriousness, am I the only one who finds the many posts in this
thread a little bizarre?

I thought it was nice when Brakhage was briefly acknowlwedged in the Oscar
montage, and it's nice when other experimental filmmakers are acknowledged
too. But when we start talking about awards, have we forgotten what the
Oscars are, and what values they represent, and how different the values
of avant-garde film are? Why should we expect, or even want, more than a
passing nod from the Academy as it is currently constituted? It's really
great that the money from the Oscar-cast goes to film preservation,
including of avant-garde work. Is there any reason to expect more?

Fred Camper
Chicago

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Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

2012-02-28 Thread lj frezza
regarding Fred's reply, ingmar bergman wrote the academy this letter
upon being nominated:
http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m02jxyi1B61qd3lbbo1_500.jpg

On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 9:44 PM, Fred Camper  wrote:
>> Yes ­ Owen Land, Ricky Leacock, and Jordan Belson as well.
>
> Oh, why not Hollis Frampton, and Stan Brakhage, and Gregory J.
> Markopoulos? Or Oscars to Ernie Gehr and Bruce Baillie, who are among the
> living?
>
> Or, one might ask, how likely is any of that?
>
> In all seriousness, am I the only one who finds the many posts in this
> thread a little bizarre?
>
> I thought it was nice when Brakhage was briefly acknowlwedged in the Oscar
> montage, and it's nice when other experimental filmmakers are acknowledged
> too. But when we start talking about awards, have we forgotten what the
> Oscars are, and what values they represent, and how different the values
> of avant-garde film are? Why should we expect, or even want, more than a
> passing nod from the Academy as it is currently constituted? It's really
> great that the money from the Oscar-cast goes to film preservation,
> including of avant-garde work. Is there any reason to expect more?
>
> Fred Camper
> Chicago
>
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Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

2012-02-28 Thread Fred Camper
> Yes ­ Owen Land, Ricky Leacock, and Jordan Belson as well.

Oh, why not Hollis Frampton, and Stan Brakhage, and Gregory J.
Markopoulos? Or Oscars to Ernie Gehr and Bruce Baillie, who are among the
living?

Or, one might ask, how likely is any of that?

In all seriousness, am I the only one who finds the many posts in this
thread a little bizarre?

I thought it was nice when Brakhage was briefly acknowlwedged in the Oscar
montage, and it's nice when other experimental filmmakers are acknowledged
too. But when we start talking about awards, have we forgotten what the
Oscars are, and what values they represent, and how different the values
of avant-garde film are? Why should we expect, or even want, more than a
passing nod from the Academy as it is currently constituted? It's really
great that the money from the Oscar-cast goes to film preservation,
including of avant-garde work. Is there any reason to expect more?

Fred Camper
Chicago

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Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

2012-02-28 Thread Adam Hyman
Yes ­ Owen Land, Ricky Leacock, and Jordan Belson as well.


On 2/28/12 5:47 PM, "Jorge Lorenzo Flores Garza" 
wrote:

> Well, I don't think it's enough or fair to mention Kuchar in this montage.
> They should have given him an honorary Oscar or something.  Give him some
> credit while still alive.
> 
>> > Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 08:46:22 +0100
>> > To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
>> > From: framewo...@re-voir.com
>> > Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars
>> > 
>> > I understood that Chuck Workman always cuts together the Oscar
>> > montage - and as he just made the feature-length "Visionaries" on the
>> > experimental filmmakers around Anthology, he does know them all.
>> > (Though I prefered his "Condensed Cream of Beatles!)
>> > -Pip
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > At 20:50 -0800 27/02/12, Mark Toscano wrote:
>>> > >Exactly.  I didn't have anything to do with it!  Which is all the
>>> > >better, as it suggests that his influence has indeed permeated
>>> > >enough to be on the radar of folks cutting together Oscars montages.

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Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

2012-02-28 Thread Jorge Lorenzo Flores Garza

Well, I don't think it's enough or fair to mention Kuchar in this montage.  
They should have given him an honorary Oscar or something.  Give him some 
credit while still alive.

> Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 08:46:22 +0100
> To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
> From: framewo...@re-voir.com
> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars
> 
> I understood that Chuck Workman always cuts together the Oscar 
> montage - and as he just made the feature-length "Visionaries" on the 
> experimental filmmakers around Anthology, he does know them all. 
> (Though I prefered his "Condensed Cream of Beatles!)
> -Pip
> 
> 
> 
> At 20:50 -0800 27/02/12, Mark Toscano wrote:
> >Exactly.  I didn't have anything to do with it!  Which is all the 
> >better, as it suggests that his influence has indeed permeated 
> >enough to be on the radar of folks cutting together Oscars montages.
> >
> >Mark
> >
> >
> ___
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Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

2012-02-28 Thread Caryn Cline
I agree.  I was surprised to see Kuchar's picture up there.  They missed
Theo Angelopoulos, though.

CC

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 8:35 PM, Scott Stark  wrote:

> It was a pleasant surprise to see George Kuchar in the memorial
> sequence in last night's Oscars.
>
> -s
>
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Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

2012-02-28 Thread charles chadwick
BTW, here is a link to the in memoriam montage from Saturday's Oscars:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxpN3xjDrQ0 .  George's little clip is
toward the end, plus the sound is awful, but at least it's up. It was
funny, because I talked to one of my parents and they said an experimental
filmmaker was on the Oscars. I was kind of mystified at first, but then saw
this and it made sense. The fact that they used a clip from Hold Me While
I'm Naked I found heartwarming when I saw this. Enjoy!

-charles

On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 7:30 AM, Adam Hyman  wrote:

>  Hi,
>
> Also, two years ago at least Chuck Workman took the year off from the
> Oscars.  Not sure if he did this year.
>
> Best,
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> On 2/27/12 11:53 PM, "Mark Toscano"  wrote:
>
> Chuck Braverman did the Condensed Cream of Beatles thing, and was known
> for his rapid-fire montages of the '60s, at least a few of which appeared
> on the Smothers Brothers show.
>
> I don't believe Chuck Workman ever cuts the memorial segment, though.  The
> one year I talked to the folks doing it (2004), it was two guys whose names
> I can't remember, but who weren't working with Chuck.
>
> Chuck Workman frequently cuts montages for the Oscars, though.  But so do
> other folks, including Penelope Spheeris and Errol Morris, among others.
>
> Mark
>
> --
>  *From:* Pip Chodorov 
>  *To:* Experimental Film Discussion List 
>  *Sent:* Monday, February 27, 2012 11:46 PM
>  *Subject:* Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars
>
>
>
> I understood that Chuck Workman always cuts together the Oscar
> montage - and as he just made the feature-length "Visionaries" on the
> experimental filmmakers around Anthology, he does know them all.
> (Though I preferred his "Condensed Cream of Beatles!)
>
> -Pip
>
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>


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Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

2012-02-28 Thread Adam Hyman
Hi,

Also, two years ago at least Chuck Workman took the year off from the
Oscars.  Not sure if he did this year.

Best,

Adam


On 2/27/12 11:53 PM, "Mark Toscano"  wrote:

> Chuck Braverman did the Condensed Cream of Beatles thing, and was known for
> his rapid-fire montages of the '60s, at least a few of which appeared on the
> Smothers Brothers show.
> 
> I don't believe Chuck Workman ever cuts the memorial segment, though.  The one
> year I talked to the folks doing it (2004), it was two guys whose names I
> can't remember, but who weren't working with Chuck.
> 
> Chuck Workman frequently cuts montages for the Oscars, though.  But so do
> other folks, including Penelope Spheeris and Errol Morris, among others.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
>   From: Pip Chodorov 
>  To: Experimental Film Discussion List 
>  Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 11:46 PM
>  Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars
>   
>  
> I understood that Chuck Workman always cuts together the Oscar
> montage - and as he just made the feature-length "Visionaries" on the
> experimental filmmakers around Anthology, he does know them all.
> (Though I preferred his "Condensed Cream of Beatles!)
-Pip
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Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

2012-02-28 Thread Cari Machet
i was happy to see it - to a degree
it reminded me of brakhage and i miss his light
and
i remember how he could have used more funding to make more films - of course
and i am mad at the film world for not being more supportive in his lifetime

at least scorsese does some archive funding dont know if he does any
funding of people that are alive worhal does in death they fund the
living it seems and the living fund the dead

On 2/28/12, Mark Toscano  wrote:
> Chuck Braverman did the Condensed Cream of Beatles thing, and was known for
> his rapid-fire montages of the '60s, at least a few of which appeared on the
> Smothers Brothers show.
>
> I don't believe Chuck Workman ever cuts the memorial segment, though.  The
> one year I talked to the folks doing it (2004), it was two guys whose names
> I can't remember, but who weren't working with Chuck.
>
> Chuck Workman frequently cuts montages for the Oscars, though.  But so do
> other folks, including Penelope Spheeris and Errol Morris, among others.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> 
>  From: Pip Chodorov 
> To: Experimental Film Discussion List 
> Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 11:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars
>
> I understood that Chuck Workman always cuts together the Oscar
> montage - and as he just made the feature-length "Visionaries" on the
> experimental filmmakers around Anthology, he does know them all.
> (Though I prefered his "Condensed Cream of Beatles!)
> -Pip
>
>
>
> At 20:50 -0800 27/02/12, Mark Toscano wrote:
>>Exactly.  I didn't have anything to do with it!  Which is all the
>>better, as it suggests that his influence has indeed permeated
>>enough to be on the radar of folks cutting together Oscars montages.
>>
>>Mark
>>
>>
> ___
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Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

2012-02-27 Thread Mark Toscano
Chuck Braverman did the Condensed Cream of Beatles thing, and was known for his 
rapid-fire montages of the '60s, at least a few of which appeared on the 
Smothers Brothers show.

I don't believe Chuck Workman ever cuts the memorial segment, though.  The one 
year I talked to the folks doing it (2004), it was two guys whose names I can't 
remember, but who weren't working with Chuck.

Chuck Workman frequently cuts montages for the Oscars, though.  But so do other 
folks, including Penelope Spheeris and Errol Morris, among others.

Mark




 From: Pip Chodorov 
To: Experimental Film Discussion List  
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 11:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars
 
I understood that Chuck Workman always cuts together the Oscar 
montage - and as he just made the feature-length "Visionaries" on the 
experimental filmmakers around Anthology, he does know them all. 
(Though I prefered his "Condensed Cream of Beatles!)
-Pip



At 20:50 -0800 27/02/12, Mark Toscano wrote:
>Exactly.  I didn't have anything to do with it!  Which is all the 
>better, as it suggests that his influence has indeed permeated 
>enough to be on the radar of folks cutting together Oscars montages.
>
>Mark
>
>
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Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

2012-02-27 Thread Pip Chodorov
I understood that Chuck Workman always cuts together the Oscar 
montage - and as he just made the feature-length "Visionaries" on the 
experimental filmmakers around Anthology, he does know them all. 
(Though I prefered his "Condensed Cream of Beatles!)
-Pip



At 20:50 -0800 27/02/12, Mark Toscano wrote:
>Exactly.  I didn't have anything to do with it!  Which is all the 
>better, as it suggests that his influence has indeed permeated 
>enough to be on the radar of folks cutting together Oscars montages.
>
>Mark
>
>
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Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

2012-02-27 Thread Carlileb
 
In a message dated 2/27/2012 5:36:27 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
sst...@hi-beam.net writes:

It was a  pleasant surprise to see George Kuchar in the memorial 
sequence in last  night's Oscars.

-s





Yes, and Leacock too.
 
Although I wish they'd shown film of the people in action. That's always  
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Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

2012-02-27 Thread Huckleberry Lain
That's what I thought at first cause he was so influential, but someone
just told me that you did it.  Sorry for the misinformation and rumor-ville.

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 8:50 PM, Mark Toscano  wrote:

> Exactly.  I didn't have anything to do with it!  Which is all the better,
> as it suggests that his influence has indeed permeated enough to be on the
> radar of folks cutting together Oscars montages.
>
> Mark
>
>
>   --
> *From:* Jason Halprin 
> *To:* Experimental Film Discussion List 
> *Sent:* Monday, February 27, 2012 7:22 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars
>
> This is how myths begin...
>
> -JH
>   --
> *From:* Huckleberry Lain **
>
> I just heard that was solely because of Mark Toscano.  So, cheers to
> Mark!  Thanks for having the world remember such a wonderful man.
>
>
>
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Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

2012-02-27 Thread Mark Toscano
Exactly.  I didn't have anything to do with it!  Which is all the better, as it 
suggests that his influence has indeed permeated enough to be on the radar of 
folks cutting together Oscars montages.

Mark




 From: Jason Halprin 
To: Experimental Film Discussion List  
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars
 

This is how myths begin...


-JH



 From: Huckleberry Lain 
 

I just heard that was solely because of Mark Toscano.  So, cheers to Mark!  
Thanks for having the world remember such a wonderful man.



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Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

2012-02-27 Thread Adam Hyman
It¹s the memorial sequence, and happened near the end of the show, but
before the Actor & Actress awards.
It ended with Elizabeth Taylor.


On 2/27/12 7:21 PM, "Matt Helme"  wrote:

> does anyone know if that section is on youtube?
>  
> http://www.youtube.com/user/oscarthepug1234
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/user/matthelme007
>   
>  
>  
>   
>   From: Huckleberry Lain 
>  To: Experimental Film Discussion List 
>  Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 7:09 PM
>  Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars
>   
>  
> I just heard that was solely because of Mark Toscano.  So, cheers to Mark!
> Thanks for having the world remember such a wonderful man.
> 
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Adam Hyman  wrote:
>> They seem to fit in one Avant-garde person each year.  Well, at least they
>> had Brakhage.
>> There are avant-garde sympathetic folks at the Academy...
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 2/27/12 6:12 PM, "Matt Helme"  wrote:
>> 
>>> Sorry i missed it.
>>> Matt
>>>  
>>> http://www.youtube.com/user/oscarthepug1234
>>> 
>>> http://www.youtube.com/user/matthelme007
>>>   
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>   From: Scott Stark 
>>>  To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
>>>  Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 5:35 PM
>>>  Subject: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> It was a pleasant surprise to see George Kuchar in the memorial
>>> sequence in last night's Oscars.
>>> 
>>> -s
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> FrameWorks mailing list
>>> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
>>> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>>  
>>>   
>>> 
>>> ___ FrameWorks mailing list
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> 
> 
> ___
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> 
> 


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Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

2012-02-27 Thread Jason Halprin
This is how myths begin...


-JH



 From: Huckleberry Lain 
 

I just heard that was solely because of Mark Toscano.  So, cheers to Mark!  
Thanks for having the world remember such a wonderful man.___
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Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

2012-02-27 Thread Matt Helme
does anyone know if that section is on youtube?


http://www.youtube.com/user/oscarthepug1234


http://www.youtube.com/user/matthelme007



 From: Huckleberry Lain 
To: Experimental Film Discussion List  
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars
  

I just heard that was solely because of Mark Toscano.  So, cheers to Mark!  
Thanks for having the world remember such a wonderful man.


On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Adam Hyman  wrote:

They seem to fit in one Avant-garde person each year.  Well, at least they had 
Brakhage.
>There are avant-garde sympathetic folks at the Academy...
>
>
>
>On 2/27/12 6:12 PM, "Matt Helme"  wrote:
>
>
>Sorry i missed it.
>>Matt
>> 
>>http://www.youtube.com/user/oscarthepug1234
>>
>>http://www.youtube.com/user/matthelme007
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>
>>  From: Scott Stark 
>> To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com 
>> Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 5:35 PM
>> Subject: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars
>> 
>>
>> 
>>It was a pleasant surprise to see George Kuchar in the memorial 
>>sequence in last night's Oscars.
>>
>>-s
>>
>>___
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>>
>> 
>> 
>>  
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>___ FrameWorks mailing list 
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>  
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Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

2012-02-27 Thread Huckleberry Lain
I just heard that was solely because of Mark Toscano.  So, cheers to Mark!
Thanks for having the world remember such a wonderful man.

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Adam Hyman  wrote:

>  They seem to fit in one Avant-garde person each year.  Well, at least
> they had Brakhage.
> There are avant-garde sympathetic folks at the Academy...
>
>
>
> On 2/27/12 6:12 PM, "Matt Helme"  wrote:
>
> Sorry i missed it.
> Matt
>
> http://www.youtube.com/user/oscarthepug1234
>
> http://www.youtube.com/user/matthelme007
>
>
>
>
>
>   *From:* Scott Stark 
>  *To:* frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
>  *Sent:* Monday, February 27, 2012 5:35 PM
>  *Subject:* [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars
>
>
>
> It was a pleasant surprise to see George Kuchar in the memorial
> sequence in last night's Oscars.
>
> -s
>
> ___
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>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

2012-02-27 Thread Adam Hyman
They seem to fit in one Avant-garde person each year.  Well, at least they
had Brakhage.
There are avant-garde sympathetic folks at the Academy...


On 2/27/12 6:12 PM, "Matt Helme"  wrote:

> Sorry i missed it.
> Matt
>  
> http://www.youtube.com/user/oscarthepug1234
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/user/matthelme007
>   
>  
>  
>   
>   From: Scott Stark 
>  To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
>  Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 5:35 PM
>  Subject: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars
>   
>  
> It was a pleasant surprise to see George Kuchar in the memorial
> sequence in last night's Oscars.
> 
> -s
> 
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Re: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars

2012-02-27 Thread Matt Helme
Sorry i missed it.
Matt

http://www.youtube.com/user/oscarthepug1234


http://www.youtube.com/user/matthelme007



 From: Scott Stark 
To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com 
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 5:35 PM
Subject: [Frameworks] Kuchar on the Oscars
  
It was a pleasant surprise to see George Kuchar in the memorial 
sequence in last night's Oscars.

-s

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