fxtv: Error: shared library "Xaw3d.8" does not exist

[michael corleone corleone]

%sysctl kern.version
kern.version: FreeBSD 5.3-STABLE #7: Thu Feb 10 22:27:06 PHT 2005
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MMP
% pkg_info |grep -i Xaw3d
Xaw3d-1.5_1 A 3-D Athena Widget set that looks like Motif
any idea why i still get this error, though my ports is always updated.
i did try to issue the command # find / -name  Xaw3d.8 because the error 
below is looking for this library, i hope anyone can help me fixing this, 
thanks.

***
If you want Xaw3d to replace the default Athena Widget Set
so most X applications will get a 3-D look, do this (as root):
cd /usr/X11R6/lib
mv libXaw.so.8 libXaw2d.so.8
ln -s libXaw3d.so.8 libXaw.so.8
***
===>   Running ldconfig
/sbin/ldconfig -m /usr/X11R6/lib
===>   Registering installation for Xaw3d-1.5_1
===>   Returning to build of fxtv-1.03_2
Error: shared library "Xaw3d.8" does not exist
*** Error code 1
Stop in /usr/ports/multimedia/fxtv.
*** Error code 1
_
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Concealing short disconnects

[Dan Nelson]

In the last episode (Feb 12), Andrew P. said:
> Dan Nelson wrote:
> >In the last episode (Feb 12), Andrew P. said:
> >>I have a few machines behind my FreeBSD box. The box connects to
> >>ISP via ppp (PPPoE protocol). It's all working very nicely, but the
> >>ISP is a pain - it disconnects every 24 hours. I can reconnect in
> >>just a moment - so the diconnect is usually less than a second
> >>long, but many applications, like ICQ/MSN and games "feel" the
> >>disconnect. The matter is that these applications can handle fairly
> >>large packet loss (e.g. Counter-Strike can cope with at least
> >>15-second long 100% packet loss), but AFAIK it's in the nature of
> >>the TCP/UDP that a disconnect is a disconnect.
> >>
> >>As I know that FreeBSD is full of magic, is there any way to
> >>conceal these reconnects as short moments of 100% packet loss? I am
> >>ashamed to know very little about protocols' technicalities, but
> >>I'll look into any sources you advise.
> >
> >Check to see if your IP number changes when you reconnect.  If it
> >does, there's nothing you really can do; the remote system you were
> >talking to knew you only by your old IP, and those packets coming to
> >them from this other IP are unrelated.
> 
> It changes only once in about a week. Let's say it doesn't change
> at all. What then?

I'm still suspicious :)  The two most common causes for connection
resets are IP address changes and NAT resets.  /usr/sbin/ppp keeps its
NAT table across disconnects as long as the process itself stays
running, so I don't think that's the cause.  If you have root access to
a remote system, try running tcpdump on it and your local machine while
running something like top over ssh, and watch what happens when your
connection drops and reconnects.

-- 
Dan Nelson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Install 5.3 - Getting mountroot> prompt

[Scott]

  >   I will really appreciate it of someone can
  >   help
  >   me out.
  >
  >   I am installing 5.3 on a dual p3 server. I
  >   have
  >   two 160 gig Seagate IDE drives on the first
  >   IDE
  >   connector, and a CD rom on the 2nd IDE
  >   connector.
  >   I have reinstalled several times with
  >   different
  >   drive configurations and keep getting stuck
  >   at
  >   the same place.
  >
  >   At boot, the normal countdown loader comes
  >   up and
  >   it begins to boot. The boot message gets to
  >   this
  >   drive section below and then stops at a
  >   "mountroot>" prompt.
  >
  >   Begin copy ...
  >
  >   ad0: 152627MB 
  >   [310101/16/63]
  >   at ata0-master UDMA66
  >   ad1: 152627MB 
  >   [310101/16/63]
  >   at ata0-master UDMA66
  >   acd0:  at ata1-master PIO4
  >
  >   Manual root filesystem specification:
  >   : Mount  using
  >   filesystem
  >   
  >   eg. usf:da0s1a
  >   ? List valid desk boot devices
  >Abort manual input
  >
  >   mountroot>
  >
  >    End copy
  >
  >   If I type: ufs:ad0s1a
  >   at that "mountroot>"
  >   prompt, it will boot normally and as far as
  >   I can
  >   tell, all is working like I would expect. I
  >   suspected this may have something to do
  >   with my
  >   fstab but it looks normal to me:
  >
  >   /dev/ad0s1b  none  swap  sw  0 0
  >   /dev/ad1s1b  none  swap  sw  0 0
  >   /dev/ad0s1a  /ufs rw 1 1
  >   /dev/ad1s1d  /backup  ufs  rw 2 2
  >   /dev/ad0s1d  /tmp   ufs  rw  2 2
  >   /dev/acd0 /cdromcd9660  ro,noauto
  >   0 0
  >
  >   Please let me know if I can provide more
  >   information that will help you help me know
  >   what to do to get it to automatically go on
  >   to boot ad0s1a.

One more thing I just found out, if it helps. If I just
let it boot, I get to the mountroot> prompt as above
and can boot the system after entering the location
of the root partition.

If I chose option 2 and boot with ACPI off, the drives
are not found and I get:
FAILURE - ATA_IDENTIFY timed out
errors on both the master and slave drives. At that point,
I get the mountroot> prompt again, but of course can
not mount the root partition.

So now I'm wondering why if I boot with ACPI on, the
drives are found, but root doesn't boot. With ACPI off,
the drives are not even found. I hope that helps
someone tell me where to look.

5.2.1 was booting off this same drive normally before
I replaced it with 5.3.

Thanks,
Scott




___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

RE: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo suchasNetBSD!!!

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: Andrew L. Gould [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 12:34 AM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Cc: Ted Mittelstaedt
> Subject: Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo
> suchasNetBSD!!!
> 

> > Explain how this has nothing to do with money, please?
> >
> > Ted
> 
> I thought it referred to FreeBSD driver support in retail products.  
> Sure, it means the companies will get more of my money because there 
> would be more compatible hardware that's easy to identify.  It 
> does not 
> necessarily equate to money for FreeBSD developers, however.
> 

I never said it did.  But quite obviously if FreeBSD usage expands,
the developers skills become more valuable, they are worth more, can
command more money, you know the rest.

However, I will say that I don't think the developers in favor of
this are looking at that.  I do think though that the ones in favor
have had pressure from companies to dump beastie - not perhaps
direct pressure, but indirect pressure.  And so far the strongest
reasons cited by the developers in favor of this have been because
corporate groups have made an issue about Beastie.  Why do these
developers care what some corporate group thinks if money has nothing
to do with it?

This gets into the question of just who are we creating FreeBSD for -
ourselves and other users of FreeBSD - or the rest of the world who
isn't using FreeBSD, and our goal is to go try pushing it.  FreeBSD's
strength has always been precisely because the people creating and
contributing and using it have not been interested in writing it
how someone else wants it, but have been interested in writing it
how THEY themeselves want it.  What happens is developers and
the users that help them in the development process (beta testing,
user feedback, etc.) are only concerned with their own problems
and so they spend all their time perfecting the software to fix
their problems.  Because of this focusing, the code really can become
very close to perfection and ends up solving that problem very, very
well.

Then what happens is the rest of the world sees how good it works
and starts thinking about ways that they can modify their own
environment to take advantage of the FreeBSD way of doing things.

Novell in it's heyday had a phrase for this:  "Think Red"

What this meant was that Novell understood one of the truisms in
software: you can either do a few things very good, or a lot of
things rather poorly.

When Novell lost sight of this was when they came out with 
Netware 4, which was an attempt to satisfy a bunch of large
customers.  Instead of writing Netware to be even better at
what it was doing, they tried to make it a kitchen sink that
would fix everything for everybody.  Since the result didn't
fix anything for anybody well enough for production use, the
large customers never materialized, and the smaller customers
decided they had had enough of this shit, and all went to
Microsoft.

Ted
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Beastie Logo, humble thoughts

[Louis LeBlanc]

On 02/11/05 09:41 PM, Jay Kinkade sat at the `puter and typed:
> Hey, could not help following this "beastie" logo thing in
> freeBSD-questions. Wow, who would have thought that all these
> usually sane, inovative, freeBSD loving posters could be so fierce.
> Good for them(you)!

Thank you.  I think ;)

> I thought the logo was anti-God when I first saw it and was afriad
> of it, in a way. After a while that feeling went away and was
> replaced with the feeling of pride and statisfaction of a great OS
> that is better than any other, that is, especially Windows.

Not sure I remember what I thought at first.  At the time I think I
was still trying to convince myself I was a faithful Christian.  I
don't think I EVER associated Beastie with the Devil.  Maybe that's an
indication I had already filed him (Satan) and my previous faith into
the mythology drawer.  Regardless, I congratulate you on seeing past
your initial hangups. :)

> No matter how things turn out in the end, freeBSD is a solid OS and
> deserves to take it's rightful position in the market place. Face it
> things change.  Not that I'm avocating this a a good or need change,
> however, one that should be carefully looked it from all angles,
> with the freeBSD projects best intentions in mind. That's my mind,
> thanks for listening.

You know, I was one of the more vocal opponents to any change
whatsoever.  I still seriously oppose any change, but now I'm just a
little tired of the war, and I have stepped back and recognized that
I'm NOT a real contributor, but just a user, so I really shouldn't be
such a fanatical opponent to any changes.  While I am attached to
Beastie for reasons I can't really explain at this point - not sure if
it's the because of the crazy night out with the guys or just plain
mental (emotional?) fatigue on this particular issue - I do understand
that I should really just voice my opinion as a FreeBSD user then shut
up.  That is the reason I have effectively stopped taking part in the
relevant threads - I only read your message because it is a new
thread.  Ok, overly talkative - that's certainly Sam Adams talking.
Don't mind the spelling accuracy.  I'm obsessive compulsive, and typed
every third word four times :)

'nuf said, In short, I have to agree with your last point absolutely
and completely.  *Well said*.

Cheers
Lou
-- 
Louis LeBlanc  FreeBSD-at-keyslapper-DOT-net
Fully Funded Hobbyist,   KeySlapper Extrordinaire :)
Please send off-list email to: leblanc at keyslapper d.t net
Key fingerprint = C5E7 4762 F071 CE3B ED51  4FB8 AF85 A2FE 80C8 D9A2

Things equal to nothing else are equal to each other.


pgpdKCrUWEeCw.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Why in the world you should have a vote: was RE: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo suchas NetBSD!!!

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Robert Marella
> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 2:16 PM
> To: Ted Mittelstaedt
> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Garance A Drosehn
> Subject: RE: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo suchas
> NetBSD!!!
>
>
> On Thu, 2005-02-10 at 21:31 -0800, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> >
> >  What if they put it
> > to a vote and the userbase all votes for logos that clearly
> > represent the Beastie image?  What will have been the point of
> > the contest?
>
> I am a FreeBSD user. I read and sometimes respond to several of the
> lists. I have donated money and will continue to donate money
> to FreeBSD
> no matter what the logo will be.
>
> I also donate money and volunteer my time to Hospice. I do not get nor
> expect to be able to vote on any issues that may arise  at a board
> meeting for The Hospice of Kona.
>
> Why in the world should I expect to be able to vote on whether a new
> logo is adopted or not?
>

I will tell you exactly why and it is one of the most exciting reasons
to use FreeBSD.

With almost ALL OTHER so-called "open source" projects, and this includes
Linux,
Apple's open source, etc. the source code copyright is held by a company
or
an individual, not by a non-profit that specifically exists for the
purpose
of holding the copyright in public trust.

The exceptions are, of course, the HANDFUL of GNU utilities (such as gcc)
where the copyright was assigned over to the FSF by the authors.

Most of this code is also under the GPL, which is a restrictive license,
not an open one.

Because of this, LOTS of situations exist such as MySQL AB, where the
owners of the copyright - in this case Mysql AB - license mysql out
to companies.  At the same time they issue mysql under the GPL.

Of course, as long as they continue feeding the advances that are
driven by their commercial customers back into the open source code
that is under the GPL, then everything is great for the rest of us.

But, NOTHING prevents them from simply NOT doing this.  Even the Linux
kernel itself remains copyrighted by Linus Torvalds.

So what you say, Linus would never do anything to harm Linux so why
does this matter?

Well, unfortunately the copyright on the Linux kernel is going to
supersede Linus's lifespan.  His heirs will determine what happens
to it.  He has shown no interest in donating it to the FSF.

So what you say, the GPL-licensed Linux kernel will just immediately
fork if his heirs try going after anybody.

Yes, that will happen.  Then for the next 20 years the heirs will file
lawsuits that will make the SCO-suing-IBM lawsuit look like child's play.
Imagine how the FUD will affect commercial users.  And I'm sorry to say
but forking WON'T remove the heir's copyright on Linux - all it will
do is make it possible to continue adding new stuff to it.

This could potentially happen to ANY GPL software that has a copyright
retained by the developer.

The GPL has NEVER YET BEEN TESTED IN COURT.  The FSF in fact has an
entire team of lawyers that specialize in out-of-court settlements
SPECIFICALLY TO PREVENT the GPL from EVER being legally tested.  So
far this HAS worked because all plaintiffs have had their price.

But sooner or later a plaintiff will come along that will not give
a crap how much money the FSF offers them, they will insist on going
to trial and having a judge decide.  If the judge then rules the
GPL is a pile of dog poop - imagine what will happen.

In fact, no less than the FSF themselves, STRONGLY ENCOURAGE anyone
licensing their code under GPL to donate the copyright to the FSF
simply to avoid this kind of problem.  Very few so far have done so.

With BSD, the copyrights on it are held by the University of Berkeley
and by the FreeBSD Project.  The COPYRIGHT, (not the license) is
SPECIFICALLY written to PERMIT COMPLETELY UNRESTRICTED USE of the
code - with the one exception - that is if you use any BSD code
in your product, that YOUR OWN COPYRIGHT MUST mention that some of
the code is copyrighted by UCB and the FreeBSD Project.

YOU ARE NOT PREVENTED FROM ANY REDISTRIBUTION of the software.  Meaning
that you can use it and sell it the SAME as if you wrote a product
from scratch and sold it.

And here is the best part:

WHO makes up The FreeBSD Project?

Is it the committers?  NO

Is it UCB?  NO

Is it any single developer? NO

It is EVERYONE WHO CONTRIBUTES ANYTHING TO FREEBSD.  You, me, anyone
who wants to be involved in the FreeBSD Project, all you need to do
is start contributing and YOU ARE IN IT!!!

Thus, FREEBSD BELONGS TO YOU!!  That's, right YOU!!  Your a member
of the FreeBSD Project - you are one of the owners of the FreeBSD
code.  That's it, simple as that.

So, of course you should have a vote.

Ted

___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECT

FreeBSD Banners ?

[faisal gillani]

i want to promote freebsd on my site , where can i
find good looking freebsd AD banners ?
if you have mail me on
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

thanks


=
*º¤., ¸¸,.¤º*¨¨¨*¤ Allah-hu-Akber*º¤., ¸¸,.¤º*¨¨*¤
God is the Greatest




__ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. 
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

OT sharing how,tos & articles ?

[faisal gillani]

well i am builting a opensource softwares related site
on which i have a articals section ill use to promote
open source softwares in my reagion , so i was
thinking does the open source people allow their
documentations to be shared ? if not all then can u
recommend a site about freeBSD that will let me do so
?
also if you have any good articals , mail me on
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

thanks

=
*º¤., ¸¸,.¤º*¨¨¨*¤ Allah-hu-Akber*º¤., ¸¸,.¤º*¨¨*¤
God is the Greatest




__ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. 
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo 
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

OT sharing how,tos & articles ?

[faisal gillani]

well i am builting a opensource softwares related site
on which i have a articals section ill use to promote
open source softwares in my reagion , so i was
thinking does the open source people allow their
documentations to be shared ? if not all then can u
recommend a site about freeBSD that will let me do so
?


=
*º¤., ¸¸,.¤º*¨¨¨*¤ Allah-hu-Akber*º¤., ¸¸,.¤º*¨¨*¤
God is the Greatest


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

RE: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Vonleigh
> Simmons
> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 8:38 AM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such
> asNetBSD!!! 
> 
> 
> 
>   As an artist here is how I see it: Beastie is a mascot, 
> not a logo. 
> It's like having "Disney" with a Mickey Mouse. The logo is either the 
> word Disney in that very distinct font, or the black ears. The mascot 
> can be part of the logo but not always; in the Disney example it's 
> derived from it (this approach could work with Beastie). Another 
> example is monster.com, that also has a distinct mascot and a logo 
> (don't like the logo, just pointing it out).
> 
>   So the logo contest could use beastie in some 
> interesting way: framed, 
> simplified, stylized, vectorized, etc.  In other words made 
> into a real 
> logo from the cartoon character. By stylize I mean for example 
> what the 
> fox looks like in the firefox logo.
> 

That already has been done, it was done over a decade ago by Walnut
Creek.  The logo they created and used for FreeBSD is exactly that.

Ted
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

LD_ *vars

[Raman]

Hi,

I want to modify and recompile an application already installed on my
FreeBSD 4.10 machine and then when I'm done with it go back to the way
it was with that application before I modified and recompiled it.

I heard I should use bash and edit the LD_* vars.  I was not able to
find anything about them on www.freebsd.org.  I wanted to know how
LD_PRELOAD and LD_LIBRARY_PATH worked.

Thank you for your help and time.

- Raman
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

RE: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anthony
> Atkielski
> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 9:06 AM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such
> asNetBSD!!!
>
>
> Bart Silverstrim writes:
>
> > People want to change the logo from Beastie to something else because
> > Beastie isn't professional enough, so some committers
> decided to hold a
> > contest for a new logo?
>
> Beastie isn't a logo.  There is no logo for FreeBSD at the moment.

Wrong, I already answered your earlier post where you claim that
the image wasn't used as a logo.

>
> A more likely problem is that the devil-worship aspect of Beastie might
> prevent religiously fanatic potential customers from considering the OS
> in the first place, thus making it impossible to get a foot in
> the door.

I am sure that Walmart has lots of people working on device drivers
that are badly needed in FreeBSD.

>
> Would you prefer that FreeBSD remain the best kept secret on the Web?
> It's a good operating system ... why not promote it?  It's better than
> Linux.  It would be nice to see a technically superior product actually
> win, for once.
>

Fundamentally impossible, Anthony.

Technically superior products are technically superior because they
have MORE than the customary R&D put into them.  That makes them MORE
expensive than the median/mediocre products that dominate a market.

If you want to play on a team that makes the best product in the
business, then you are going to have to be content with the minority
of the market that truly wants the best product that money can
buy.

If however your shooting for the largest market segment, then your
going to have to make your product as cheap as you can get it and
have it still meet the minimum criteria needed to work.

This is why the new Rolls Royce puts out 435 hp @ 5000 rpm, will
do the quarter mile in 14.3 seconds, has a top speed of 130Mph,
and costs nearly half a million dollars.

They only make about 600-1000 of them a year, you know.

Ted

___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Freebsd vs. linux

[W. D.]

At 22:13 2/11/2005, Peterhin wrote:
>Good day, I am a Newbie to Freebsd and was  just reading your reply
> "Re. Instead of freebsd.com, why not..."  and you made the comment;
>  
>"Linux is inferior to FreeBSD, and yet it is taken more seriously 
>because of the atmosphere around it, despite its technical inferiority"
>
>Could you please either explain, why Freebsd is superior to Linux, (I am 
>asking this as I would like to understand, in more depth, why it is 
>better) or direct me to a source that might give me some further 
>reading on the subject.
>I would really appreciate a better understanding of the differences 
>between Freebsd and Linux.

FreeBSD vs. Linux discussions:
http://tinyurl.com/2f8np
http://www.offmyserver.com/cgi-bin/store/news/techtv_090303.html
http://tinyurl.com/6xhrz
http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/bsd4linux/bsd4linux8.php
http://www.InternetWeek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=12800936
http://Search.Yahoo.com/search?p=%22FreeBSD+vs.+Linux%22
http://www.Google.com/search?q=%22FreeBSD+vs.+Linux%22

Much of what runs on Linux also runs on FreeBSD, either
'natively' or using Linux emulation.
http://www.Google.com/search?q=FreeBSD+features+Linux

Here is an installation how-to that I've worked up:
http://www.US-Webmasters.com/FreeBSD/Install/

HTH









Start Here to Find It Fast!™ -> http://www.US-Webmasters.com/best-start-page/
$8.77 Domain Names -> http://domains.us-webmasters.com/

___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: SPAM: Score 3.3: Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...

[Jerry McAllister]

> 
> Matthias Buelow writes:
> 
> > And your point is..?
> 
> I can see that FreeBSD marketing has a long way to go.

To where?FreeBSD is not marketed in any particular way - on purpose.  
No one wants to do it, so no one will do it.

jerry
> 
> -- 
> Anthony
> 
> 
> ___
> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
> 

___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

RE: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anthony
> Atkielski
> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 2:54 PM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such
> asNetBSD!!!
>
>
> Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes:
>
> > I don't know.  Go ask them.  Look in the codebase yourself, or pay
> > someone to do so.
>
> Is this what you would tell someone contemplating a multimillion-dollar
> investment in a FreeBSD rollout to 10,000 servers? "I don't
> know"? "Look
> it up yourself"?
>

No, I would tell them:

"Please contact my sales manager to discuss terms on which you may retain
me to consult for this project"

Ted

___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

RE: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anthony
> Atkielski
> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 2:47 PM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such
> asNetBSD!!!
>
>
> Joshua Tinnin writes:
>
> > I don't think you understand the history of FreeBSD. Many people who
> > work at Yahoo! are committers, and their employer not only
> knows about
> > this but encourages it.
>
> That's not good enough.  The employer has to assign its copyrights as
> well, or waive the usual work-for-hire arrangement that is implicit for
> employees writing code within the scope of their work.
>

Anthony,

  The committers do know about this and are careful about it.  You will
note
that this is discussed more fully here:

http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributing/contrib-
how.html

under the section:

New Code or Major Value-Added Packages

I am very surprised that you missed this.  Could it be made any more
obvious?

Ted

___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

RE: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anthony
> Atkielski
> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 11:19 PM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such
> asNetBSD!!!
> 
> 
> Ted Mittelstaedt writes:
> 
> > That is so not true that it makes me almost as angry as the original
> > debate.
> 
> Maybe getting angry about a mere logo is a bad sign.
> 

Then if it is so unimportant why change it from beastie?

Ted
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

What kind of motherboard?

[Holtor]

Hello,

I have a freebsd 4.10 server. Is there anyway I can find out what kind of 
motherboard is inside it
without acctually taking it apart? I noticed that other servers running FreeBSD 
5.3 tell me in the
kernel bootup which can be seen in /var/run/dmesg.boot but in 4.10 I do not see 
it anywhere. Is
there a command to see it or a sysctl which shows it or anything? Any ideas 
would be appreciated. 

Please CC: me on any replies as I am not subscribed to the list yet.

Thank you,

Holt G.



__ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. 
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: SPAM: Score 3.3: Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...

[Jeremy C. Reed]

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005, Anthony Atkielski wrote:

> That depends on the OS to which you compare it.  In isolation, FreeBSD
> works on the desktop, just as most UNIX operating systems do, but in
> comparison to Windows or the Mac, it's a rather sorry excuse for a
> desktop.  But no OS can do it all, no matter how religiously its
> proponents might believe otherwise.

I guess this depends on how "desktop" is defined.

Being able to run a desktop for over a hundred days without reboots,
without annoying continuous software failures, without worry of malicious
(or anoying) pop-ups, virus, and malware, and being able to quickly do my
desktop work is a good reason to use an open source Unix desktop.

I guess Mac OS X can meet these goals. But can't meet the need to be able
to use a good functional desktop on old, out-dated, slow hardware.

(Nevertheless, it is not time to advertise FreeBSD as a "desktop"
alternative.)


 Jeremy C. Reed

 BSD News, BSD tutorials, BSD links
 http://www.bsdnewsletter.com/

___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

ipfilter2ipchains script?

[Luciano Musacchio]

simple question,
is there an ipfilter to ipchains conversion script or program?,
if not, whats the better solution for a newbie bsd admin to do
firewalls on linux? (long term plan is bsd-migration of course :)

thx

-- 
www.eXactas.org - La Universidad Evolutiva
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...

[Paul Mather]

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 03:54:27 +0100, Anthony Atkielski
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes:
> 
> > This is also ridiculous.  No CEO or CIO is going to  give a RAT's
> ASS
> > about what is said in a mailing list about a particular product.
> 
> Probably.  But the problem is that there is nothing else with FreeBSD.
> If you want support, you post to a mailing list, and hope that someone
> answers you without abusing you or flying off the handle.  You cannot
> call a toll number and have a cool-headed professional walk through your
> issue and solve the problem.

If you want that type of support, you might want to try one of the links
under the "Vendors" section of www.freebsd.org.

You can't expect to *rely* on timely support or solutions to your
FreeBSD problems from the FreeBSD mailing lists (or even the FreeBSD
developers), but you do have a reasonable expectation of receiving
effective tech support from a vendor from which you are buying a FreeBSD
solution (or contracting for FreeBSD support of same).

If you can't find a vendor that provides the level of support you assess
you need, then you'll have to look at another OS.  That's just one of
those harsh realities.  Although plenty of people do manage well with
just the mailing lists and *BSD Web sites for support, it's inaccurate
to suggest that's the *only* avenue of support.

> The Web site actually looks pretty amateurish compared to the
> competition.  It screams "shareware hobbyist" rather than "enterprise
> solutions center."

The operating system is one thing; a certain level support is another.
That's Free/Open Source software for you.  If the freely available help
and support does not meet the comfort zone of you or your company,
you'll have to pay someone to get it into that zone.  That's where the
niche of the entries found under the "Vendors" section of the
www.freebsd.org Web site fits in.  This applies pretty much across the
board in my experience, whether it's *BSD or the many Linux
distributions.  Even OS vendors providing "enterprise solutions" will
require you to pay for support.  You can't download the freebie and
expect 24-hour call-out support. :-)

> > But we are talking about a cross section of user's in unofficial
> > channels. That does not mean a thing to these people.
> 
> It does when that's the only thing they can see.

Then they should learn to scroll down a bit and follow hyperlinks. ;-)

Cheers,

Paul.
-- 
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

"Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production
 deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid."
--- Frank Vincent Zappa
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

mx2.freebsd.org in SORBS, AGAIN!

[cpghost]

Hello,

for some reason, mx2.freebsd.org is being repeatedly added to,
and some days later removed from the SORBS dnsbl. They keep
adding it, and then removing it with a reason: Listed in error.
Right now, it's listed again.

>From their DB page http://www.dnsbl.us.sorbs.net/lookup.shtml

Database of servers sending to spamtrap addresses
Address:216.136.204.119
Record Created: Mon Jan 31 10:14:47 2005 GMT
Record Updated: Thu Feb 10 04:59:33 2005 GMT
Additional Information: Received: [email]
Currently active and flagged to be published in DNS

This is going on for many days now, and the only workaround
(or solution?) is to avoid SORBS until they fixed that problem
for good.

Does anyone know what's going on there?

Thanks.
-cpghost.

-- 
Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as

[Ian Smith]

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 > Message: 23
 > Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 20:55:06 -0500 (EST)
 > From: Jerry McAllister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[..]

 > Well, I hope I am helpful, at least some of the time.   It seems
 > to run about 50-50 that I am near the topic and am way out of touch.

You're being way too modest, Jerry.

 > But, on this, the comment is not because of the specific opinion, but 
 > rather the tenor of the posts which seem to have begun drifting in the 
 > direction of having the look and feel of some from a recent very thoroughly
 > unpopular but active troll.

At least [EMAIL PROTECTED] mostly trolled about pseudo-technical issues, not all
this quasi-legalistic and corporate-cater crap.  Even Ted M got sucked
in, starting his next book in here, in the off-topic-before-last .. 

 > The objectionable sign is the tendancy to not just post an opinion and
 > let others have theirs, but to repeatedly pound on the same thread, often
 > drifting far from the thread, with successive posts escalating the
 > virulence of the rhetoric until there is no semblence of exchange left,
 > just a bunch of who can shout the loudest.   

Yep.

 > In a posting storm from only a few days ago, it was noted that this
 > goes beyond even the typical troll, and may need some other creature 
 > to characterize the identity - maybe a cockatrice or something.

I only catch up on -questions as a digest, every now and again when I've
the time and/or want to find out something and/or am interested in some
discussions.  Lately it's been just chocfull of this sort of bs, which
is most distracting.  This is usually an excellent technical list, but
lately only in amongst all this massively off-topic stuff, which is sad.

 > Anyway, in the way of the old folk story, it looks like, feels like,
 > smells like, tastes like - sure glad I didn't step in it.

I like the mascot too, and couldn't care less about logos.  I also like
the clean, functional, fast website, and would hate to see it cluttered
up and slowed down by corporatised flashy crap to suit the suits Anthony
hopes to impress.  And, to polish it off, I just love FreeBSD on my lil'
laptop as well as on several servers.  Currently 8 Netscape windows, 11
Kwrite, 6 Konsoles in 160MB, uptime 6.5 days, last reboot 30 Jan .. and
that's an ancient FreeBSD 4.5, KDE 2.2.2 .. no good on the desktop, eh? 

This will be my one and only 'contribution' to painting this bikeshed. 

Cheers, Ian

___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: SPAM: Score 3.3: Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...

[Chad Leigh -- Shire . Net LLC]

On Feb 11, 2005, at 8:49 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote:
Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes:
Not in public it doesn't.  That is irrelevant to the discussion.
FreeBSD does not work on my PPC HW either.
Score: 12 out of 100.  The meeting is over, and a security guard will
show you the door.
Try again.
Dude, get a life.  This is not a formal presentation to an IT 
department.  This is an unofficial, freely used by all, who are all 
volunteers, mail list.

I wish the security guard would show you to the door.
Chad
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as

[Chad Leigh -- Shire . Net LLC]

On Feb 11, 2005, at 8:44 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote:
Robert Marella writes:
As far as the codebase question, he was not the one to bring it up. If
I can read between his lines, I understand that when you go in front
of the suits you can't tell them RTFM. You have to explain why FreeBSD
is head and shoulders above the leader of the pack.
Yes.  Things to remember if you must present FreeBSD to "suits" (not an
exhaustive list):
- You must provide sound arguments and/or hard data to support your
suggestions.  "FreeBSD is just great!" will not do.
- You must provide costs.  "It's free" won't do.  Nothing is ever free.
 If you don't have costs, either you aren't being serious, or you
 haven't done your homework.
- You cannot killfile anyone who asks questions that you don't like.
- Calling the suits stupid because they refuse to unconditionally agree
with you guarantees failure.  Do not throw tantrums.
- You must be confident, but not arrogant.  Stick to your guns when you
are discussing something that you know to be objectively true, but do
not argue about opinions.
- You must know exactly what point you wish to make to the suits, and
you must stick to it.  A long discussion of how much you love Beastie
will not impress.
- You need to leave documentation with them, including a copy of your
presentation.
- You need to explain how they will obtain support when something goes
wrong.  "Nothing ever goes wrong!" will not work.
- You need to explain how FreeBSD will fit in with their IT strategy.
It's up to you to research this; it is not up to them to figure it out.
- Don't knock the competition unless you can objectively back up what
you say (even then, be judicious).
- Be prepared to address legal issues, such as licensing, patents, and
copyrights.
- If you say "If you don't like it this way, go somewhere else," they
will.

This is all very well and good, but is irrelevant to the earlier 
discussion.  You are not a Suit we are trying to impress or get to use 
FreeBSD.  You are on a general technical support mailing list and 
"behavior" here is different than would be in a formal presentation or 
even official support mechanism.

Chad
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Freebsd vs. linux

[Peterhin]

Good day, I am a Newbie to Freebsd and was  just reading your reply
 "Re. Instead of freebsd.com, why not..."  and you made the comment;
  
"Linux is inferior to FreeBSD, and yet it is taken more seriously 
because of the atmosphere around it, despite its technical inferiority"

Could you please either explain, why Freebsd is superior to Linux, (I am 
asking this as I would like to understand, in more depth, why it is 
better) or direct me to a source that might give me some further 
reading on the subject.
I would really appreciate a better understanding of the differences 
between Freebsd and Linux.

Thanking you for your time.
-- 
Peter

"Peace is never more than one thought away"


___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Problem accessing net from a NAT Firewall

[David Wassman]

Ok, after two days with little sleep I am now going to ask for some 
help. Here are my problems to ponder and I will give my sys info and 
configs after.

1) I want to connect to my wireless router (A) from one computer (B) and 
connect through it a wired network (C) to access the internet. Is this 
possible? I know you can do it with a wired network through nat but am 
not sure about the wireless in the middle.

2)I have setup the computer A as a router with a firewall and NAT. I can 
access to web from it through the wireless link but cannot ping out from 
C behind it.

The net hardware:
I have cable.
A - Linksys WGT54G
D-  WG511T wireless PC card
 Xircom 10Mbps PC card
C   RealTek 8139
 3Com  3c905-TX
I have put the following options in the kernel and compiled
IPFIREWALL
IPDIVERT
IPSEC   (I know this is for IPsec and not the firewall 
directly. I have not installed racoon and am not using IPsec. Included 
it here in case this is the problem.)
IPSEC_ESP
IPSEC_DEBUG

I modified the following configs from this site 
http://lugbe.ch/lostfound/contrib/freebsd_router/
rc.conf:
# use DHCP for external interface
ifconfig_ath0="ssid "

ifconfig_ath0="DHCP"
# static address for internal interface
ifconfig_xe0="inet 223.147.37.1 netmask 255.255.255.0 broadcast 
223.147.37.255"

# enable IP forwarding
gateway_enable="YES"
sshd_enable="YES"
# enable firewall
firewall_enable="YES"
# set path to custom firewall config
firewall_type="/etc/rc.firewall.rules"
# be non-verbose? set to YES after testing
firewall_quiet="NO"
# enable natd, the NAT daemon
natd_enable="YES"
# which is the interface to the internet that we hide behind?
natd_interface="ath0"
# flags for natd
natd_flags="-f /etc/natd.conf"
rc.firewall.rules
# be quiet and flush all rules on start
-q flush
  
# allow local traffic, deny RFC 1918 addresses on the outside
add 00100 allow ip from any to any via lo0
add 00110 deny ip from any to 127.0.0.0/8
add 00120 deny ip from any to any not verrevpath in
add 00301 deny ip from 10.0.0.0/8 to any in via ep0
add 00302 deny ip from 172.16.0.0/12 to any in via ath0
add 00303 deny ip from 192.168.0.0/16 to any in via ath0
   

# check if incoming packets belong to a natted session, allow through if yes
add 01000 divert natd ip from any to me in via ath0
add 01001 check-state
 
# allow some traffic from the local net to the router
# SSH
add 04000 allow tcp from 223.147.37.0/24 to me dst-port 22 in via xe0 
setup keep-state
# NTP
add 04002 allow tcp from 223.147.37.0/24 to me dst-port 123 in via xe0 
setup keep-state
add 04003 allow udp from 223.147.37.0/24 to me dst-port 123 in via xe0 
keep-state
# DNS
add 04006 allow udp from 223.147.37.0/24 to me dst-port 53 in via xe0
  
# drop everything else
add 04009 deny ip from 223.147.37.0/24 to me
  
# pass outgoing packets (to be natted) on to a special NAT rule
add 04109 skipto 61000 ip from 223.147.37.0/24 to any in via xe0 keep-state
 

# allow all outgoing traffic from the router (maybe you should be more 
restrictive)
add 05010 allow ip from me to any out keep-state
 
# drop everything that has come so far. This means it doesn't belong to 
an established connection, don't log the most noisy scans.
add 59998 deny icmp from any to me
add 5 deny ip from any to me dst-port 135,137-139,445,4665
add 6 deny log tcp from any to any established
add 6 deny log ip from any to any
  
# this is the NAT rule. Only outgoing packets from the local net will 
come here.
# First, nat them, then pass them on (again, you may choose to be more 
restrictive)
add 61000 divert natd ip from 223.147.37.0/24 to any out via ath0
add 61001 allow ip from any to any

natd.conf
unregistered_only
interface ath0
use_sockets
#dynamic(Don't think I need this 
as not running any services for the outside)
# dyamically open fw for ftp, irc
#punch_fw 53

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I am very tired of pulling my 
hair out at 4 in the morning. It is also annoying to have to use M$ on 
my wife's laptop to access the internet. Please help bring FreeBSD back 
into my everyday life:-)

David
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Concealing short disconnects

[Andrew P.]

Dan Nelson wrote:
In the last episode (Feb 12), Andrew P. said:
I have a few machines behind my FreeBSD box. The box connects to ISP
via ppp (PPPoE protocol). It's all working very nicely, but the ISP
is a pain - it disconnects every 24 hours. I can reconnect in just a
moment - so the diconnect is usually less than a second long, but
many applications, like ICQ/MSN and games "feel" the disconnect. The
matter is that these applications can handle fairly large packet loss
(e.g. Counter-Strike can cope with at least 15-second long 100%
packet loss), but AFAIK it's in the nature of the TCP/UDP that a
disconnect is a disconnect.
As I know that FreeBSD is full of magic, is there any way to
conceal these reconnects as short moments of 100% packet loss?
I am ashamed to know very little about protocols' technicalities,
but I'll look into any sources you advise.

Check to see if your IP number changes when you reconnect.  If it does,
there's nothing you really can do; the remote system you were talking
to knew you only by your old IP, and those packets coming to them from
this other IP are unrelated.
It changes only once in about a week. Let's say it doesn't change
at all. What then?
Best wishes,
Andrew P.
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Concealing short disconnects

[Dan Nelson]

In the last episode (Feb 12), Andrew P. said:
> I have a few machines behind my FreeBSD box. The box connects to ISP
> via ppp (PPPoE protocol). It's all working very nicely, but the ISP
> is a pain - it disconnects every 24 hours. I can reconnect in just a
> moment - so the diconnect is usually less than a second long, but
> many applications, like ICQ/MSN and games "feel" the disconnect. The
> matter is that these applications can handle fairly large packet loss
> (e.g. Counter-Strike can cope with at least 15-second long 100%
> packet loss), but AFAIK it's in the nature of the TCP/UDP that a
> disconnect is a disconnect.
> 
> As I know that FreeBSD is full of magic, is there any way to
> conceal these reconnects as short moments of 100% packet loss?
> I am ashamed to know very little about protocols' technicalities,
> but I'll look into any sources you advise.

Check to see if your IP number changes when you reconnect.  If it does,
there's nothing you really can do; the remote system you were talking
to knew you only by your old IP, and those packets coming to them from
this other IP are unrelated.

-- 
Dan Nelson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Concealing short disconnects

[Andrew P.]

Hello guys!
I have a few machines behind my FreeBSD box. The box connects
to ISP via ppp (PPPoE protocol). It's all working very nicely,
but the ISP is a pain - it disconnects every 24 hours. I can
reconnect in just a moment - so the diconnect is usually less
than a second long, but many applications, like ICQ/MSN and
games "feel" the disconnect. The matter is that these applications
can handle fairly large packet loss (e.g. Counter-Strike can cope
with at least 15-second long 100% packet loss), but AFAIK it's
in the nature of the TCP/UDP that a disconnect is a disconnect.
As I know that FreeBSD is full of magic, is there any way to
conceal these reconnects as short moments of 100% packet loss?
I am ashamed to know very little about protocols' technicalities,
but I'll look into any sources you advise.
Best wishes,
Andrew P.
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: SPAM: Score 3.3: Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...

[Robert Marella]

On Sat, 2005-02-12 at 04:34 +0100, Matthias Buelow wrote:
> Robert Marella wrote:
> 
> >>MacOS X is the "Desktop BSD".  It is available today, and it works 
> >>better than anything else at being a "desktop".  
> > Does it work on my intel hardware?
> 
> And your point is..?
> 
> mkb.
 Market share!

What percentage of the desktops are intel/AMD based? If MacOS X is _THE_
Desktop BSD, can it be ported/converted to the majority of the installed
desktops? If not, can someone/some_company/some_group do to intel/AMD
desktops what Apple did to MacOS X?

I know the driving force of FreeBSD is toward servers. Apple was able to
make it a desktop OS. I like it as a desktop OS on my intel hardware but
I have a lot of time to spend. Even with the time, I still can't get
everything to work as I would like. 

If it was a better desktop OS more people would notice it and would
recognize the name FreeBSD. 

When I tell most people that I do not use MS Windows, I get a blank look
and then they ask what I do use. I usually say I use a form of UNIX
called FreeBSD. The first thing out of their mouth is, "Oh, Linux!".

I then go on to tell them about FreeBSD as their eyes glaze over.

That's my point!

Robert

___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: SPAM: Score 3.3: Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...

[Anthony Atkielski]

Matthias Buelow writes:

> And your point is..?

I can see that FreeBSD marketing has a long way to go.

-- 
Anthony


___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: SPAM: Score 3.3: Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...

[Anthony Atkielski]

Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes:

> Not in public it doesn't.  That is irrelevant to the discussion.
> FreeBSD does not work on my PPC HW either.

Score: 12 out of 100.  The meeting is over, and a security guard will
show you the door.

Try again.

-- 
Anthony


___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: SPAM: Score 3.3: Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...

[Anthony Atkielski]

Robert Marella writes:

> Does it work on my intel hardware?

Two basic responses, one right, one wrong:

Wrong: "Of course it does, you idiot!  Don't you know anything about
hardware?"

Right: "FreeBSD easily supports the full range of Intel microprocessors
and virtually all Intel motherboards and chipsets, directly out of the
box. It also takes advantage of most Intel-specific hardware
enhancements where applicable, for better performance."

-- 
Anthony


___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as

[Anthony Atkielski]

Robert Marella writes:

> As far as the codebase question, he was not the one to bring it up. If
> I can read between his lines, I understand that when you go in front
> of the suits you can't tell them RTFM. You have to explain why FreeBSD
> is head and shoulders above the leader of the pack.

Yes.  Things to remember if you must present FreeBSD to "suits" (not an
exhaustive list):

- You must provide sound arguments and/or hard data to support your
suggestions.  "FreeBSD is just great!" will not do.

- You must provide costs.  "It's free" won't do.  Nothing is ever free.
 If you don't have costs, either you aren't being serious, or you
 haven't done your homework.

- You cannot killfile anyone who asks questions that you don't like.

- Calling the suits stupid because they refuse to unconditionally agree
with you guarantees failure.  Do not throw tantrums.

- You must be confident, but not arrogant.  Stick to your guns when you
are discussing something that you know to be objectively true, but do
not argue about opinions.

- You must know exactly what point you wish to make to the suits, and
you must stick to it.  A long discussion of how much you love Beastie
will not impress.

- You need to leave documentation with them, including a copy of your
presentation.

- You need to explain how they will obtain support when something goes
wrong.  "Nothing ever goes wrong!" will not work.

- You need to explain how FreeBSD will fit in with their IT strategy.
It's up to you to research this; it is not up to them to figure it out.

- Don't knock the competition unless you can objectively back up what
you say (even then, be judicious).

- Be prepared to address legal issues, such as licensing, patents, and
copyrights.

- If you say "If you don't like it this way, go somewhere else," they
will.

> The Suits hold the purse strings. They read the newspaper. They see the
> advertisements. They hear the hype. They say, "We were thinking of an MS
> solution. Why would we use FreeBSD? What is wrong with Linux as an
> alternative".

Yes.

-- 
Anthony


___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: SPAM: Score 3.3: Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...

[Matthias Buelow]

Robert Marella wrote:
MacOS X is the "Desktop BSD".  It is available today, and it works 
better than anything else at being a "desktop".  
Does it work on my intel hardware?
And your point is..?
mkb.
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: SPAM: Score 3.3: Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...

[Chad Leigh -- Shire . Net LLC]

On Feb 11, 2005, at 8:32 PM, Robert Marella wrote:
On Sat, 2005-02-12 at 03:14 +0100, Matthias Buelow wrote:
Johnson David wrote:
Currently Windows rules the desktop world, even for diehard Unix 
shops. But
that will not last forever. We need to start thinking about the 
desktop
today. We need to stop the official discouragement of desktop 
FreeBSD.
MacOS X is the "Desktop BSD".  It is available today, and it works
better than anything else at being a "desktop".
Does it work on my intel hardware?
Not in public it doesn't.  That is irrelevant to the discussion.  
FreeBSD does not work on my PPC HW either.

Chad
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: SPAM: Score 3.3: Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...

[Robert Marella]

On Sat, 2005-02-12 at 03:14 +0100, Matthias Buelow wrote:
> Johnson David wrote:
> 
> > Currently Windows rules the desktop world, even for diehard Unix shops. But
> > that will not last forever. We need to start thinking about the desktop
> > today. We need to stop the official discouragement of desktop FreeBSD.
> 
> MacOS X is the "Desktop BSD".  It is available today, and it works 
> better than anything else at being a "desktop".  

Does it work on my intel hardware?

Robert

___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as

[Robert Marella]

On Fri, 2005-02-11 at 20:55 -0500, Jerry McAllister wrote:
> > 
> > On Fri, 2005-02-11 at 18:25 -0500, Jerry McAllister wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > athony atkielski =~ /tm452\d/ ?
> > > 
> > > I was beginning to suspect some such.
> > > Maybe worse.
> > > 
> > > jerry
> > > 
> > Jerry and Eric
> > 
> > If I can remember correctly, I have received help from both of you on
> > some of my previous posts. I thank you and I always enjoy reading your
> > view points. 
> > 
> > This post is no exception but I happen to find Anthony's views on this
> > subject both provocative and right on the money.
> > 
> > We have all run into a problem with a printer, NIC, scanner that is "not
> > supported" by FreeBSD because the vendor will not release the drivers or
> > code needed to build a driver.
> > 
> > The vendor could care less if our mascot is a daemon or Mount Fujiyama.
> > The vendor looks at the bottom line. How much engineer/programmer time
> > will it take and can I recover the investment. The vendor looks at the
> > number of installed systems and the competition for his product and
> > makes a _business_ decision.
> > 
> > Anthony's point, and I agree, is that everything will grow when our OS
> > is taken for its strengths. It is difficult to get to the point of our
> > strengths when the Suits see a representation of what they perceive as;
> > childish or anti-christ or cartoonish whether justified or not. First
> > impressions are important.
> 
> Well, I hope I am helpful, at least some of the time.   It seems
> to run about 50-50 that I am near the topic and am way out of touch.

You are too modest. I always find your answers concise and correct.

> 
> But, on this, the comment is not because of the specific opinion, but 
> rather the tenor of the posts which seem to have begun drifting in the 
> direction of having the look and feel of some from a recent very thoroughly
> unpopular but active troll.

I respectfully disagree. I have found my frontal lobes being stimulated
from the drift of Anthony's posts. These subjects (legal and others) may
not be on topic for this thread but it seems to me to be a natural
progression.

> 
> The objectionable sign is the tendancy to not just post an opinion and
> let others have theirs, but to repeatedly pound on the same thread, often
> drifting far from the thread, with successive posts escalating the
> virulence of the rhetoric until there is no semblence of exchange left,
> just a bunch of who can shout the loudest.   

He is not the only one. At least I have not seen him insult other
posters.

> 
> In a posting storm from only a few days ago, it was noted that this
> goes beyond even the typical troll, and may need some other creature 
> to characterize the identity - maybe a cockatrice or something.
> 
> Anyway, in the way of the old folk story, it looks like, feels like,
> smells like, tastes like - sure glad I didn't step in it.
> 
> 
> As for the beastie mascot, it's cute.  It is not likely to go away, just
> because someone designs some letterhead logo.  I wear my beastie T-shirt to 
> church for band practice or kids club now and then with no comment from 
> anyone.  The kids wear much more offensive stuff frequently.   
> 
> But, if FreeBSD needs a logo now, maybe for letterhead, etc, who cares.  
> Make a nice logo that includes a bit of the trident peeking above the name 
> and a bit of pointy tail curling up under it - just as a teaser and reminder.
> Please do a nice job, though.  Some of the logos out there in marketing
> land really are junk - either butt ugly or totally unrecognizable as anything.
> 
> I doubt that making an official logo to go along with the variations of 
> the mascot will interfere with my putting Beastie FreeBSD stickers on our 
> machines or hanging a printout of Beastie on the office door, or replacing 
> my T-shirt when it wears out.  
> 
> jerry

As always, I look forward to your future posts.
Robert


___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as

[Chad Leigh -- Shire . Net LLC]

On Feb 11, 2005, at 8:17 PM, Robert Marella wrote:
On Fri, 2005-02-11 at 18:11 -0700, Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC wrote:
On Feb 11, 2005, at 5:34 PM, Robert Marella wrote:
On Fri, 2005-02-11 at 18:25 -0500, Jerry McAllister wrote:
athony atkielski =~ /tm452\d/ ?
I was beginning to suspect some such.
Maybe worse.
jerry
Jerry and Eric
If I can remember correctly, I have received help from both of you on
some of my previous posts. I thank you and I always enjoy reading  
your
view points.

This post is no exception but I happen to find Anthony's views on  
this
subject both provocative and right on the money.
Jerry and Eric were not talking about Anthony and his views on the  
logo
issue when they wrote that.  They were talking about his trolling  
posts
about the codebase and its legality and demanding an answer in this
forum instead of going to the people who could best answer him.

I agree that Anthony is spot on with regards the logo.
Chad
Jerry and Eric did not include any of Anthony's post with the above
comment. They tagged him as a troll or worse they put him in with
TM-whatever.
no, but they came after it (the codebase blabber) started, and not  
before, and long after Anthony had stopped posting about anything else.  
 The context was clear (and has been confirmed by Eric at least).

As far as the codebase question, he was not the one to bring it up. If  
I
can read between his lines, I understand that when you go in front of
the suits you can't tell them RTFM. You have to explain why FreeBSD is
head and shoulders above the leader of the pack.
No one told him to tell his suits to RTFM.  We told him to RTFM because  
he was asking a question that was not applicable to the forum, and  
expecting others to do his grunt work of researching it.



look at the List Summary for freebsd-questions.  It is not a forum for  
legal questions, but for technical support and user questions (ie,  
questions that users may have on using FreeBSD)

The Suits hold the purse strings. They read the newspaper. They see the
advertisements. They hear the hype. They say, "We were thinking of an  
MS
solution. Why would we use FreeBSD? What is wrong with Linux as an
alternative".

Anthony's legal questions were a normal continuation of the flow of  
this
thread.
The question is not bad.  It is the insistence that this forum,  
freebsd-questions mail list, is the place to get it and if he doesn't  
get an answer then the project is doomed.  We were not condemning the  
question itself -- just the place and manner in which it was placed and  
the asinine conclusions drawn, ie, the project was doomed if this mail  
list could not come up with an answer -- an answer that he could search  
out as well as anyone else here.

I stand by my statement. I happen to find Anthony's views on this
subject both provocative and right on the money.
you can stand anywhere you want, thanks.  Doesn't make it right.
Chad
Robert
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to  
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...

[Anthony Atkielski]

Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes:

> I am not a Steve lover, but lumping Jobs in there with Balmer and
> Ellison is not fair.   Steve has a lot more respect than that and uses
> his bully-pulpit well.

Maybe.  But none of them is a Lou Gerstner or Jack Welch or even a Carly
Fiona (peace be upon her).

> Linux has the same problem.

Yes, to some extent, and it has suffered in the same way in consequence.
But a lot of people are hyping Linux, some of them with money behind
them, and many of them are not geeks, so the hype works.  Linux is
inferior to FreeBSD, and yet it is taken more seriously because of the
atmosphere around it, despite its technical inferiority.

> Linux does have the advantage that their are *commercial companies*
> that have evolved around it, so you can purchase support from Novell, 
> Red Hat, etc if you want.

Right.  Linux is touted as "free," but in fact nobody uses anything
free; everyone is buying distributions, directly or indirectly.

> FreeBSD unfortunately does not have that branch available. However,
> your same criticisms of FreeBSD support also apply to Linux and it has
> been doing pretty well.

Unless I'm mistaken, the commercial distributors of Linux offer paid
support. There are people you can call. The quality of the support might
be miserable, but the mere fact that it is there reassures many
executives, because it makes them easier to offload responsibility.
After all, Microsoft support is pretty bad and overpriced most of the
time, but people still feel reassured by it.

> Linux seems to be doing pretty good and look at
>
> www.kernel.org
> www.linux.org
> www.linux.com

The first is on a par with www.freebsd.org; the others look a lot
better.

But I don't think decision makers are visiting these sites.  They're
more likely to be looking at the branded sites, like www.redhat.com, and
those are still more pleasing to the eye.

> www.freebsd.org is not bad at all.  It does not scream
> "shareware/hobbyist."  It is reasonable for a project like FreeBSD.   
> FreeBSD is an open source community project.

"Open source community" makes corporate people nervous.  It's a synonym
for "no accountability" and "no support."

> Linux has the same problems as FreeBSD.

To a lesser extent.  There are marketroids and business types working on
Linux.  Linux is worse from a technical standpoint but better from a
marketing standpoint.

> Now, I agree with you about a logo needing to be designed for FreeBSD.
> And there are probably pay-for-support companies that will help you 
> with FreeBSD, and maybe they need to get more "air time".  But open 
> source is catching on and FreeBSD doesn't suffer from anything that 
> open source in general doesn't suffer from.

True--although I disagree that open source is catching on.  The true
open-source model is fundamentally unstable and will gradually disappear
form all but niche markets.  Historically, nothing has ever been truly
open-source for long, on a large scale.

-- 
Anthony


___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as

[Robert Marella]

On Fri, 2005-02-11 at 19:18 -0600, Eric Kjeldergaard wrote:
> > If I can remember correctly, I have received help from both of you on
> > some of my previous posts. I thank you and I always enjoy reading your
> > view points.
> 
> (speaking on behalf of Jerry as well as myself, and making some wild
> assumptions about Jerry based on his previous posts) Always glad to
> help.  That's kind of what we are here for.
> 
> > We have all run into a problem with a printer, NIC, scanner that is "not
> > supported" by FreeBSD because the vendor will not release the drivers or
> > code needed to build a driver.
> 
> Actually, I haven't.  I know some people that have, but generally
> between using the hardware list and buying hardware that isn't
> obscure, I have no problems with support  for hardware.  The FreeBSD
> team goes way beyond my expectations again and again.

Agreed, but have you never inherited control over a system with hardware
you did not purchase?

> 
> > The vendor could care less if our mascot is a daemon or Mount Fujiyama.
> > The vendor looks at the bottom line. How much engineer/programmer time
> > will it take and can I recover the investment. The vendor looks at the
> > number of installed systems and the competition for his product and
> > makes a _business_ decision.
> 
> Seems about right.  That is how capitalism functions..
> 
> > Anthony's point, and I agree, is that everything will grow when our OS
> > is taken for its strengths. It is difficult to get to the point of our
> > strengths when the Suits see a representation of what they perceive as;
> > childish or anti-christ or cartoonish whether justified or not. First
> > impressions are important.
> 
> Might be true, though fBSD has come as far as it has without the aid
> of these Suits in question.  It's certainly not about to stop growth
> without them.  

Growth is a natural thing. If we have 2% of the market and we grow 5%
but the market grows 20%, we loose share. Vendors look at the market. We
need to capture a larger share to make them sit up and take notice.

> But I don't disagree that having more support from
> people that matter would be nice.
> 
> > P.S. I like beastie... but I like the OS much better!
> 
> Same here.  Though beastie is pretty seksii.
> 
> 

___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as

[Robert Marella]

On Fri, 2005-02-11 at 18:11 -0700, Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC wrote:
> On Feb 11, 2005, at 5:34 PM, Robert Marella wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 2005-02-11 at 18:25 -0500, Jerry McAllister wrote:
> >>>
> >>> athony atkielski =~ /tm452\d/ ?
> >>
> >> I was beginning to suspect some such.
> >> Maybe worse.
> >>
> >> jerry
> >>
> > Jerry and Eric
> >
> > If I can remember correctly, I have received help from both of you on
> > some of my previous posts. I thank you and I always enjoy reading your
> > view points.
> >
> > This post is no exception but I happen to find Anthony's views on this
> > subject both provocative and right on the money.
> 
> Jerry and Eric were not talking about Anthony and his views on the logo 
> issue when they wrote that.  They were talking about his trolling posts 
> about the codebase and its legality and demanding an answer in this 
> forum instead of going to the people who could best answer him.
> 
> I agree that Anthony is spot on with regards the logo.
> 
> Chad
> 
Jerry and Eric did not include any of Anthony's post with the above
comment. They tagged him as a troll or worse they put him in with
TM-whatever. 

As far as the codebase question, he was not the one to bring it up. If I
can read between his lines, I understand that when you go in front of
the suits you can't tell them RTFM. You have to explain why FreeBSD is
head and shoulders above the leader of the pack. 

The Suits hold the purse strings. They read the newspaper. They see the
advertisements. They hear the hype. They say, "We were thinking of an MS
solution. Why would we use FreeBSD? What is wrong with Linux as an
alternative".

Anthony's legal questions were a normal continuation of the flow of this
thread.

I stand by my statement. I happen to find Anthony's views on this
subject both provocative and right on the money.

Robert


___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Beastie Logo, humble thoughts

[Jay Kinkade]

Hey, could not help following this "beastie" logo thing in 
freeBSD-questions. Wow, who would have thought that all these usually sane, 
inovative, freeBSD loving posters could be so fierce. Good for them(you)!

I thought the logo was anti-God when I first saw it and was afriad of it, in 
a way. After a while that feeling went away and was replaced with the 
feeling of pride and statisfaction of a great OS that is better than any 
other, that is, especially Windows.

No matter how things turn out in the end, freeBSD is a solid OS and deserves 
to take it's rightful position in the market place. Face it things change. 
Not that I'm avocating this a a good or need change, however, one that 
should be carefully looked it from all angles, with the freeBSD projects 
best intentions in mind. That's my mind, thanks for listening.

Jay Kinkade 

___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...

[Chad Leigh -- Shire . Net LLC]

On Feb 11, 2005, at 7:54 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote:
On a related note:  Balmer's big mouth hasn't killed Windows
yet either.
Only because Gates built the company up into a successful multinational
with a lot of inertia before Balmer took the helm.  But that big mouth
is still a liability for the company.  Fortunately for Microsoft, most
of the competition is just as clueless (look at people like Larry
Ellison or Steve Jobs, and Balmer almost starts to look wise).
I am not a Steve lover, but lumping Jobs in there with Balmer and 
Ellison is not fair.   Steve has a lot more respect than that and uses 
his bully-pulpit well.


These mailing lists are not official mouthpieces of the FreeBSD
project.
Where _is_ the official mouthpiece?  CIOs want to know.  Whom do you
call?  Who commits?  Who signs on the dotted line?  Not knowing these
things makes executives nervous, and they don't adopt products that 
make
them nervous, even if they are free.
Linux has the same problem.
Linux does have the advantage that their are *commercial companies* 
that have evolved around it, so you can purchase support from Novell, 
Red Hat, etc if you want.  FreeBSD unfortunately does not have that 
branch available.  However, your same criticisms of FreeBSD support 
also apply to Linux and it has been doing pretty well.

If the FreeBSD projects website, official announcements, etc were like
this, you'd have a case.
The Web site actually looks pretty amateurish compared to the
competition.  It screams "shareware hobbyist" rather than "enterprise
solutions center."
Linux seems to be doing pretty good and look at
www.kernel.org
www.linux.org
www.linux.com
www.freebsd.org is not bad at all.  It does not scream 
"shareware/hobbyist."  It is reasonable for a project like FreeBSD.   
FreeBSD is an open source community project.

Linux has the same problems as FreeBSD.
Now, I agree with you about a logo needing to be designed for FreeBSD.  
And there are probably pay-for-support companies that will help you 
with FreeBSD, and maybe they need to get more "air time".  But open 
source is catching on and FreeBSD doesn't suffer from anything that 
open source in general doesn't suffer from.

Chad
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...

[Anthony Atkielski]

Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes:

> This is also ridiculous.  No CEO or CIO is going to  give a RAT's ASS
> about what is said in a mailing list about a particular product.

Probably.  But the problem is that there is nothing else with FreeBSD.
If you want support, you post to a mailing list, and hope that someone
answers you without abusing you or flying off the handle.  You cannot
call a toll number and have a cool-headed professional walk through your
issue and solve the problem.  You post to a list or a newsgroup and you
pray.  And as often as not, you get yelled at for daring to question the
perfection of the OS rather than get a solution to your problem.

Sorry, but that's no way to promote an OS.  And yes, executives will see
it, because there are no alternatives.  And they will find out about it,
because they'll ask their subordinates how the OS being suggested to
them is supported when something goes wrong.  And what does one tell
them?  "Well, you post to this list, and sometimes you can get a pretty
good answer in a day or two, unless you say something they don't like,
then they'll killfile you."

Do any people on this list work in the corporate world?  Do they ever
prepare presentations to management?  Do they ever have to do
feasibility studies and justify their suggestions for acquisitions or
changes?

> If so, WIndows would have been dead years ago.

Actually, Windows has been slow to penetrate the server market precisely
because Microsoft still has some of the angry-young-male mentality.
They've learned a lot over the decades, but they are still utterly
clueless compared to companies like IBM.  I've seen this firsthand.

> On a related note:  Balmer's big mouth hasn't killed Windows
> yet either.

Only because Gates built the company up into a successful multinational
with a lot of inertia before Balmer took the helm.  But that big mouth
is still a liability for the company.  Fortunately for Microsoft, most
of the competition is just as clueless (look at people like Larry
Ellison or Steve Jobs, and Balmer almost starts to look wise).

> These mailing lists are not official mouthpieces of the FreeBSD
> project.

Where _is_ the official mouthpiece?  CIOs want to know.  Whom do you
call?  Who commits?  Who signs on the dotted line?  Not knowing these
things makes executives nervous, and they don't adopt products that make
them nervous, even if they are free.

> If the FreeBSD projects website, official announcements, etc were like
> this, you'd have a case.

The Web site actually looks pretty amateurish compared to the
competition.  It screams "shareware hobbyist" rather than "enterprise
solutions center."

> But we are talking about a cross section of user's in unofficial
> channels. That does not mean a thing to these people.

It does when that's the only thing they can see.

-- 
Anthony


___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

(Google) Sr. Linux/Unix Release Engineer Opening

[Tod Vanlandingham]

Please let me know if you are open to posting the job description below.  I
am currently looking for a Sr. Linux/Unix Release Engineer and would be very
grateful is you could pass this information along to your UG members.

 

Thank you,

 

Tod Vanlandingham
Google

Sourcer
(650) 623-4291

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

Media Coverage: 

http://www.google.com/press/press.html
http://www.google.com/press/press.html> 
Corporate Overview: http://www.google.com/corporate/index.html
http://www.google.com/corporate/index.html> 
Top 10 Reasons to Work at Google: http://www.google.com/jobs/reasons.html
http://www.google.com/jobs/reasons.html>   

 

 

Company: Google 

Contact: Tod Vanlandingham

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  

Website: http://www.google.com/intl/en/jobs/eng.html 

 

Job Title: 

 

Sr. Release Engineer (6+ yrs C++, Scripting, Linux

Required) 

 

Job Description: 

 

This position is based in Mountain View, CA. 

 

Would you like to be part of one of Google's key software 

development efforts? This is your opportunity to leverage your deep 

technical interest and your skill at easily understanding complex 

systems. In this position, you will be responsible for Release 

Engineering of our monetization software. Your activities will 

include reviewing critical new and changed software, tracking and 

auditing change histories, investigating problems and debugging 

code, initiating and monitoring unit, regression and user/system 

level tests, and compiling and up-integrating submitted code into a 

release branch in our source control system.

 

 

Requirements: 

 

 

BS in Computer Science or other technical field. 

 

6+ years experience in software engineering/release 

engineering/software. 

 

6+ quality engineering/software quality assurance

 

Extensive knowledge of Unix/Linux (5+ years Exp.)

 

Excellent knowledge of C++ (6+ yrs.) and Java(5+ yrs.) a must, 

Python a plus 

 

Perforce Experience highly desired but not required.

 

Experience in database design and using SQL 

 

Strong familiarity with software configuration management 

systems/source code version control systems 

Ability to work well with developers, test engineers, and non-

engineering personnel

Strong organizational and communication skills, both verbal and 

written 

 

For immediate consideration, please send a MS Word/RTF Copy of your 

Resume to [EMAIL PROTECTED]   

 

Important: The subject field of your email must include Release 

Engineer - Mountain View

 

 

 

Thank you,

 

Tod Vanlandingham
Google

Sourcer
(650) 623-4291

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

  

Media Coverage: 

 http://www.google.com/press/press.html>
http://www.google.com/press/press.html
Corporate Overview: http://www.google.com/corporate/index.html
http://www.google.com/corporate/index.html> 
Top 10 Reasons to Work at Google: http://www.google.com/jobs/reasons.html
http://www.google.com/jobs/reasons.html>  

 

 

 

___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Install 5.3 - Getting mountroot> prompt

[Scott]

I will really appreciate it of someone can help
me out.

I am installing 5.3 on a dual p3 server. I have
two 160 gig Seagate IDE drives on the first IDE
connector, and a CD rom on the 2nd IDE connector.
I have reinstalled several times with different
drive configurations and keep getting stuck at
the same place.

At boot, the normal countdown loader comes up and
it begins to boot. The boot message gets to this
drive section below and then stops at a
"mountroot>" prompt.

Begin copy ...

ad0: 152627MB  [310101/16/63]
at ata0-master UDMA66
ad1: 152627MB  [310101/16/63]
at ata0-master UDMA66
acd0:  at ata1-master PIO4

Manual root filesystem specification:
: Mount  using filesystem

eg. usf:da0s1a
 ? List valid desk boot devices
 Abort manual input

mountroot>

  End copy

If I type: ufs:ad0s1a
at that "mountroot>"
prompt, it will boot normally and as far as I can
tell, all is working like I would expect. I
suspected this may have something to do with my
fstab but it looks normal to me:

/dev/ad0s1b  none  swap  sw  0 0
/dev/ad1s1b  none  swap  sw  0 0
/dev/ad0s1a  /ufs rw 1 1
/dev/ad1s1d  /backup  ufs  rw 2 2
/dev/ad0s1d  /tmp   ufs  rw  2 2
/dev/acd0 /cdromcd9660  ro,noauto  0 0

Please let me know if I can provide more
information that will help you help me know
what to do to get it to automatically go on
to boot ad0s1a.

Thanks much,
Scott




___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...

[Chad Leigh -- Shire . Net LLC]

On Feb 11, 2005, at 7:34 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote:
Kevin Kinsey writes:
IIRC, this was the sort of thing that caused a few people to
killfile your address a couple years back.
The sort of teenage-boy attitude that causes some people to killfile
others is one of the worst handicaps of the FreeBSD project.  It is bad
enough that I hesitate to clearly recommend FreeBSD for any type of
serious use, simply because my reputation might suffer when anyone 
using
the OS tries to actually talk to other users or persons involved with
the project.
Give me a break. (See below)
A case in point is the ridiculous argument and name-calling I see here
over Beastie. The kiddies are more worried about the fate of a cartoon
character than about the operating system it represents. When so many
people behave so petulantly over such trivial matters, it creates an
overall perception of immaturity that scares off serious potential 
users
of the OS. One has the impression of trying to calm a classroom full of
first graders rather than discussing issues intelligently in a
conference room with professional peers.  I can say with absolute
confidence that corporate decision makers who encounter this type of
behavior will permanently write off FreeBSD within minutes of seeing 
it;
and I can't say that I blame them, as no CEO or CIO can afford to bet
millions of dollars on the capricious behavior of a bunch of 
junior-high
kids.
This is also ridiculous.  No CEO or CIO is going to  give a RAT's ASS 
about what is said in a mailing list about a particular product.  If 
so, WIndows would have been dead years ago. (read some of the drivel 
posted in Windows mail lists).  (On a related note:  Balmer's big mouth 
hasn't killed Windows yet either).  These mailing lists are not 
official mouthpieces of the FreeBSD project.

If the FreeBSD projects website, official announcements, etc were like 
this, you'd have a case.  But we are talking about a cross section of 
user's in unofficial channels.  That does not mean a thing to these 
people.

Chad
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: SPAM: Score 3.3: Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...

[Anthony Atkielski]

Matthias Buelow writes:

> MacOS X is the "Desktop BSD".  It is available today, and it works
> better than anything else at being a "desktop".  Considering the sorry
> state of integrated "desktops" on Unix today (i.e., Gnome and KDE) and
> compare it with Windows, do you really think that will convince any 
> Windows user?  Windows really is bad enough already, why should they 
> change for a much worse user interface.  For those of us that have been
> using X11 with various window managers for the last decade or more, that
> isn't an issue -- we're used to a different way of working, but those 
> Windows types expect quite different things, which they'll only find in
> MacOS, outside of Windows, for the forseeable future.

Yes!

So it's best to forget the battles one has lost, and concentrate on the
battles that one can still win.

-- 
Anthony


___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...

[Anthony Atkielski]

Kevin Kinsey writes:

> IIRC, this was the sort of thing that caused a few people to
> killfile your address a couple years back.

The sort of teenage-boy attitude that causes some people to killfile
others is one of the worst handicaps of the FreeBSD project.  It is bad
enough that I hesitate to clearly recommend FreeBSD for any type of
serious use, simply because my reputation might suffer when anyone using
the OS tries to actually talk to other users or persons involved with
the project.

A case in point is the ridiculous argument and name-calling I see here
over Beastie. The kiddies are more worried about the fate of a cartoon
character than about the operating system it represents. When so many
people behave so petulantly over such trivial matters, it creates an
overall perception of immaturity that scares off serious potential users
of the OS. One has the impression of trying to calm a classroom full of
first graders rather than discussing issues intelligently in a
conference room with professional peers.  I can say with absolute
confidence that corporate decision makers who encounter this type of
behavior will permanently write off FreeBSD within minutes of seeing it;
and I can't say that I blame them, as no CEO or CIO can afford to bet
millions of dollars on the capricious behavior of a bunch of junior-high
kids.

-- 
Anthony


___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!

[Joshua Tinnin]

On Friday 11 February 2005 04:36 pm, Garance A Drosihn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> At 2:56 PM -0800 2/11/05, Joshua Tinnin wrote:
> >On Friday 11 February 2005 02:44 pm, Anthony Atkielski
> >
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>  Joshua Tinnin writes:
> >  > > Hmmm, let's see, Anthony Atielski, 30 posts on this subject
> >  > > alone, on a tech help list. Makes you wonder what sort of
> >  > > priorities you have.
> >>
> >>  At the moment, I'm worried about FreeBSD.
> >
> >Listen.
> >
> >You come in here making vague accusations of legal wrongdoing,
> >not just once, but TWICE! With no foundation or background, I
> >might add. You make these accusations with close to zero actual
> >knowledge of the situations involved. Do you know what that's
> >called?  That's called a cartooney threat.
>
> Oh come on now.  Given the recent cartoony lawsuit by SCO against
> IBM over Linux, I can understand his concern.  *He* is not
> threatening anyone, he's just asking a few worthwhile questions.
>
> And the answer is that the Project is well aware that it needs
> to pay attention to these legal issues.  First off, we already
> won the earlier AT&T lawsuit against FreeBSD, and second off
> we did notice the SCO lawsuit.  We are checking in with lawyers
> more than we used to, and deciding just how far we need to go
> wrt these issues.
>
> Even if we could easily win any cartoony lawsuit, the lawsuit
> itself takes money and time-resources that we would rather not
> lose.  Certainly the AT&T lawsuit in the 1990's caused a major
> slowdown in progress for FreeBSD while it was being fought.
>
> Speaking as a programmer, it is very very annoying that we have
> to spend time on these issues, but the fact remains that we *DO*
> have to pay attention to them.

He is questioning the activities of contributors to the project who are 
not acting in any way contrary to their employers' interests, copyright 
law or the FreeBSD project, insinuating that they are destroying the 
project by doing this for the above reasons. No such thing is 
happening. He does not have the background information to be making 
such comments. Constructive comments about liability are worthwhile, 
but picking stuff out of thin air and getting hysterical over it is not 
helpful. I have yet to hear anything from Anthony Atielski that would 
give creedence to his assertions, because according to him geeks don't 
know what they're doing in regards to intellectual property. Is he an 
attorney, or is he just another geek who doesn't know what he's talking 
about, by his own standards?

Anyway, useful and constructive discussion in this area is helpful. 
Saying, "The sky is falling ... on FreeBSD RIGHT NOW!" without 
substantiation is only going to invite flames.

- jt
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Firefox, java, plugins - need to go back to the port?

[John]

I installed firefox from the packages, and now that it seems
like I may have Java installed, I'd like to get the two to play
together.

I see a few different firefox plugins in /usr/ports/www, but no
java, and I don't see any references to firefox or plugs in
/usr/ports/java - clearly, I'm missing a piece of the puzzle.

All my hits on google have talked about rebuilding the port
after Java is installed.  Is that what I have to do?  Is there
no way to get a java plugin without rebuilding the whole port?

Thanks.
-- 

John Lind
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as

[Anthony Atkielski]

Eric Kjeldergaard writes:

> Actually, I haven't.

I have, but mainly with hardware that I would normally use only on the
desktop.  I ended up connecting it to Windows instead.

FreeBSD has good support for hardware that you'd use on a server--better
than that provided by Windows.

-- 
Anthony


___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: SPAM: Score 3.3: Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...

[Matthias Buelow]

Johnson David wrote:
Currently Windows rules the desktop world, even for diehard Unix shops. But
that will not last forever. We need to start thinking about the desktop
today. We need to stop the official discouragement of desktop FreeBSD.
MacOS X is the "Desktop BSD".  It is available today, and it works 
better than anything else at being a "desktop".  Considering the sorry 
state of integrated "desktops" on Unix today (i.e., Gnome and KDE) and 
compare it with Windows, do you really think that will convince any 
Windows user?  Windows really is bad enough already, why should they 
change for a much worse user interface.  For those of us that have been 
using X11 with various window managers for the last decade or more, that 
isn't an issue -- we're used to a different way of working, but those 
Windows types expect quite different things, which they'll only find in 
MacOS, outside of Windows, for the forseeable future.
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as

[Jerry McAllister]

> 
> On Fri, 2005-02-11 at 18:25 -0500, Jerry McAllister wrote:
> > > 
> > > athony atkielski =~ /tm452\d/ ?
> > 
> > I was beginning to suspect some such.
> > Maybe worse.
> > 
> > jerry
> > 
> Jerry and Eric
> 
> If I can remember correctly, I have received help from both of you on
> some of my previous posts. I thank you and I always enjoy reading your
> view points. 
> 
> This post is no exception but I happen to find Anthony's views on this
> subject both provocative and right on the money.
> 
> We have all run into a problem with a printer, NIC, scanner that is "not
> supported" by FreeBSD because the vendor will not release the drivers or
> code needed to build a driver.
> 
> The vendor could care less if our mascot is a daemon or Mount Fujiyama.
> The vendor looks at the bottom line. How much engineer/programmer time
> will it take and can I recover the investment. The vendor looks at the
> number of installed systems and the competition for his product and
> makes a _business_ decision.
> 
> Anthony's point, and I agree, is that everything will grow when our OS
> is taken for its strengths. It is difficult to get to the point of our
> strengths when the Suits see a representation of what they perceive as;
> childish or anti-christ or cartoonish whether justified or not. First
> impressions are important.

Well, I hope I am helpful, at least some of the time.   It seems
to run about 50-50 that I am near the topic and am way out of touch.

But, on this, the comment is not because of the specific opinion, but 
rather the tenor of the posts which seem to have begun drifting in the 
direction of having the look and feel of some from a recent very thoroughly
unpopular but active troll.

The objectionable sign is the tendancy to not just post an opinion and
let others have theirs, but to repeatedly pound on the same thread, often
drifting far from the thread, with successive posts escalating the
virulence of the rhetoric until there is no semblence of exchange left,
just a bunch of who can shout the loudest.   

In a posting storm from only a few days ago, it was noted that this
goes beyond even the typical troll, and may need some other creature 
to characterize the identity - maybe a cockatrice or something.

Anyway, in the way of the old folk story, it looks like, feels like,
smells like, tastes like - sure glad I didn't step in it.


As for the beastie mascot, it's cute.  It is not likely to go away, just
because someone designs some letterhead logo.  I wear my beastie T-shirt to 
church for band practice or kids club now and then with no comment from 
anyone.  The kids wear much more offensive stuff frequently.   

But, if FreeBSD needs a logo now, maybe for letterhead, etc, who cares.  
Make a nice logo that includes a bit of the trident peeking above the name 
and a bit of pointy tail curling up under it - just as a teaser and reminder.
Please do a nice job, though.  Some of the logos out there in marketing
land really are junk - either butt ugly or totally unrecognizable as anything.

I doubt that making an official logo to go along with the variations of 
the mascot will interfere with my putting Beastie FreeBSD stickers on our 
machines or hanging a printout of Beastie on the office door, or replacing 
my T-shirt when it wears out.  

jerry

> 
> Robert
> 
> P.S. I like beastie... but I like the OS much better!
> 
> ___
> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
> 

___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: is there a cheat-sheet for WINE?

[Gary Kline]

On Fri, Feb 11, 2005 at 03:53:12PM -0500, Ben Dover wrote:
> I added the following to the top of my wine config file and the
> stoppable errors went away.
> 
> [Drive C]
> "Path" = "/windows"
> "Type" = "hd"
> "Label" = "msdos"
> "Filesystem" = "win98"
> 
> 
> Note that "Path" = "/windows"  is the directory i created to mount the
> windows partition in /etc/fstab
> Good luck
> 


Okay, now can you telll mee what I need to add to my /etc/fstab?
It has to be different from what I had back in '01!!   --Or
maybe not...

thanks f or the clue.

gary

PS:  BTW, I do/will want to use my CDROM drive.  So what to I
 add for /cdrom??



> 
> On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 09:26:35 -0800, Gary Kline <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Wed, Feb 09, 2005 at 12:58:31AM +0100, albi wrote:
> > > Gary Kline wrote:
> > >
> > > > The sh tools/wineinstall did an incomplete job.  I have
> > > > ~/.wine/config i nstalled, but I'm missing something because
> > > > runnning wine or wine --help yields:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >fixme:file:get_default_drive_device auto detection of DOS devices not
> > > >supported on this platform
> > > >Warning: the specified Windows directory L"c:\\windows" is not
> > > >accessible.
> > >
> > > a few weeks ago i tried wine (and linux-winetools) from the ports in
> > > 5.3 and it worked pretty well (testing filezilla for windows-users)
> > >
> > > in linux there's usually the winesetup tool, but this was (not available
> > > and) not needed at all
> > >
> > > i would install wine from ports and do a rm -rf ~/.wine and try again
> > >
> > 
> > Still no luck.  The WINE website is aimed toward Linux
> > and as far as I can tell, the OnLamp article no longer
> > applies.  Anybody else?
> > 
> > gary
> > 
> > --
> >Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED]   www.thought.org Public service 
> > Unix
> > 
> > ___
> > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
> > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
> > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
> >
> ___
> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

-- 
   Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED]   www.thought.org Public service Unix

___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...

[Kevin Kinsey]

Anthony Atkielski wrote:
Screenshots say _absolutely nothing_ about what an OS can do as a
server.  And FreeBSD is not any more suitable for the desktop than Linux
(which is to say, it's hardly usable at all).
 

Now, I've deleted all the context, but that's quite a
generalization there in that second sentence.
IIRC, this was the sort of thing that caused a few people to
killfile your address a couple years back.  Which was sad,
because you bring a few plusses and a viable P.O.V. to
the discussions that we all watch and/or participate in.
I'm not trying to chastise nor start an argument; but you may
want to be careful that in burning the thatch from the yard,
you don't catch the forest on fire.
Respectfully,
Kevin Kinsey
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as

[Eric Kjeldergaard]

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 18:11:32 -0700, Chad Leigh -- Shire. Net LLC
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> On Feb 11, 2005, at 5:34 PM, Robert Marella wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 2005-02-11 at 18:25 -0500, Jerry McAllister wrote:
> >>>
> >>> athony atkielski =~ /tm452\d/ ?
> >>
> >> I was beginning to suspect some such.
> >> Maybe worse.
> >>
> >> jerry
> >>
> > Jerry and Eric
> >
> > If I can remember correctly, I have received help from both of you on
> > some of my previous posts. I thank you and I always enjoy reading your
> > view points.
> >
> > This post is no exception but I happen to find Anthony's views on this
> > subject both provocative and right on the money.
> 
> Jerry and Eric were not talking about Anthony and his views on the logo
> issue when they wrote that.  They were talking about his trolling posts
> about the codebase and its legality and demanding an answer in this
> forum instead of going to the people who could best answer him.

Yeah, that's the one.

-- 
If I write a signature, my emails will appear more personalised.
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as

[Eric Kjeldergaard]

> If I can remember correctly, I have received help from both of you on
> some of my previous posts. I thank you and I always enjoy reading your
> view points.

(speaking on behalf of Jerry as well as myself, and making some wild
assumptions about Jerry based on his previous posts) Always glad to
help.  That's kind of what we are here for.

> We have all run into a problem with a printer, NIC, scanner that is "not
> supported" by FreeBSD because the vendor will not release the drivers or
> code needed to build a driver.

Actually, I haven't.  I know some people that have, but generally
between using the hardware list and buying hardware that isn't
obscure, I have no problems with support  for hardware.  The FreeBSD
team goes way beyond my expectations again and again.

> The vendor could care less if our mascot is a daemon or Mount Fujiyama.
> The vendor looks at the bottom line. How much engineer/programmer time
> will it take and can I recover the investment. The vendor looks at the
> number of installed systems and the competition for his product and
> makes a _business_ decision.

Seems about right.  That is how capitalism functions..

> Anthony's point, and I agree, is that everything will grow when our OS
> is taken for its strengths. It is difficult to get to the point of our
> strengths when the Suits see a representation of what they perceive as;
> childish or anti-christ or cartoonish whether justified or not. First
> impressions are important.

Might be true, though fBSD has come as far as it has without the aid
of these Suits in question.  It's certainly not about to stop growth
without them.  But I don't disagree that having more support from
people that matter would be nice.

> P.S. I like beastie... but I like the OS much better!

Same here.  Though beastie is pretty seksii.


-- 
If I write a signature, my emails will appear more personalised.
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: SPAM: Score 3.3: Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...

[Chad Leigh -- Shire . Net LLC]

On Feb 11, 2005, at 4:00 PM, Johnson David wrote:
From: Anthony Atkielski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Because FreeBSD is a server, not a desktop.
Agree and disagree. While FreeBSD is well suited for the server, it's 
also
well suited for the desktop.
Anthony had the same misguided opinion in the Apache Users mailing list.
That doesn't mean that we should be stressing
the desktop to those shopping for servers, instead it means that we
shouldn't be telling those shopping for desktops to go use Linux 
instead.
How many business will be running Linux on the desktop but FreeBSD on 
the
server? None!
But you will find lots of people with FreeBSD on the Server and OS X on 
the desktop!

Not to say that you cannot run a FreeBSD desktop.  And any efforts to  
make that easier are applauded.  I used to run Linux on the desktop[1] 
and FreeBSD on the server.  Setting up Linux as a desktop at the time 
(1990-2000 timeframe) was so much easier.  I don't know about now, but 
with Linux (SuSE is what I used back then) it was as easy as setting up 
Windows.

Chad
[1] and Windows 2000 :-( and Mac OS 8/9 and Rhapsody and the beta for 
OS X

___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as

[Chad Leigh -- Shire . Net LLC]

On Feb 11, 2005, at 5:34 PM, Robert Marella wrote:
On Fri, 2005-02-11 at 18:25 -0500, Jerry McAllister wrote:
athony atkielski =~ /tm452\d/ ?
I was beginning to suspect some such.
Maybe worse.
jerry
Jerry and Eric
If I can remember correctly, I have received help from both of you on
some of my previous posts. I thank you and I always enjoy reading your
view points.
This post is no exception but I happen to find Anthony's views on this
subject both provocative and right on the money.
Jerry and Eric were not talking about Anthony and his views on the logo 
issue when they wrote that.  They were talking about his trolling posts 
about the codebase and its legality and demanding an answer in this 
forum instead of going to the people who could best answer him.

I agree that Anthony is spot on with regards the logo.
Chad
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

HP Pavillion zv5445us shuts down during install of 5.3

[bsdnooby]

HP Pavillion zv5445us shuts down during install of 5.3
Right after the screen when you can choose to disable ACPI or to boot in 
SafeMode (both of which I tried), after making a selection - it 
shutsdown.  I'm trying to install 5.3 from both floppies and CD1.  I'm 
dualbooting Win XP Pro using PartitionMagic8/BootMagic8 - but I do not 
think that is related.  My other Toshiba laptop is using a similar 
configuration, and works fine.

I saw in Google where at least 1 other person had this problem, but 
there was no resolution.  This is a new laptop, P4-3Ghz, 512MB, 100GB 
drive, LAN & Wifi, etc.

Anyone have success with the newer HP pavillions?
thx

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 2/10/2005
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

RE: SPAM: Score 3.3: Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...

[Johnson David]

From: Anthony Atkielski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Because FreeBSD is a server, not a desktop.

Agree and disagree. While FreeBSD is well suited for the server, it's also
well suited for the desktop. That doesn't mean that we should be stressing
the desktop to those shopping for servers, instead it means that we
shouldn't be telling those shopping for desktops to go use Linux instead.
How many business will be running Linux on the desktop but FreeBSD on the
server? None!

Currently Windows rules the desktop world, even for diehard Unix shops. But
that will not last forever. We need to start thinking about the desktop
today. We need to stop the official discouragement of desktop FreeBSD.

So how about a "www.serverfreebsd.com" and a "www.desktopfreebsd.com"? You
get the best of both worlds that way.

David
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!

[Garance A Drosihn]

At 2:56 PM -0800 2/11/05, Joshua Tinnin wrote:
On Friday 11 February 2005 02:44 pm, Anthony Atkielski
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 Joshua Tinnin writes:
 > > Hmmm, let's see, Anthony Atielski, 30 posts on this subject
 > > alone, on a tech help list. Makes you wonder what sort of
 > > priorities you have.
 >
 At the moment, I'm worried about FreeBSD.
Listen.
You come in here making vague accusations of legal wrongdoing,
not just once, but TWICE! With no foundation or background, I
might add. You make these accusations with close to zero actual
knowledge of the situations involved. Do you know what that's
called?  That's called a cartooney threat.
Oh come on now.  Given the recent cartoony lawsuit by SCO against
IBM over Linux, I can understand his concern.  *He* is not
threatening anyone, he's just asking a few worthwhile questions.
And the answer is that the Project is well aware that it needs
to pay attention to these legal issues.  First off, we already
won the earlier AT&T lawsuit against FreeBSD, and second off
we did notice the SCO lawsuit.  We are checking in with lawyers
more than we used to, and deciding just how far we need to go
wrt these issues.
Even if we could easily win any cartoony lawsuit, the lawsuit
itself takes money and time-resources that we would rather not
lose.  Certainly the AT&T lawsuit in the 1990's caused a major
slowdown in progress for FreeBSD while it was being fought.
Speaking as a programmer, it is very very annoying that we have
to spend time on these issues, but the fact remains that we *DO*
have to pay attention to them.
--
Garance Alistair Drosehn=   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Senior Systems Programmer   or  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Rensselaer Polytechnic Instituteor  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as

[Robert Marella]

On Fri, 2005-02-11 at 18:25 -0500, Jerry McAllister wrote:
> > 
> > athony atkielski =~ /tm452\d/ ?
> 
> I was beginning to suspect some such.
> Maybe worse.
> 
> jerry
> 
Jerry and Eric

If I can remember correctly, I have received help from both of you on
some of my previous posts. I thank you and I always enjoy reading your
view points. 

This post is no exception but I happen to find Anthony's views on this
subject both provocative and right on the money.

We have all run into a problem with a printer, NIC, scanner that is "not
supported" by FreeBSD because the vendor will not release the drivers or
code needed to build a driver.

The vendor could care less if our mascot is a daemon or Mount Fujiyama.
The vendor looks at the bottom line. How much engineer/programmer time
will it take and can I recover the investment. The vendor looks at the
number of installed systems and the competition for his product and
makes a _business_ decision.

Anthony's point, and I agree, is that everything will grow when our OS
is taken for its strengths. It is difficult to get to the point of our
strengths when the Suits see a representation of what they perceive as;
childish or anti-christ or cartoonish whether justified or not. First
impressions are important.

Robert

P.S. I like beastie... but I like the OS much better!

___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: SQL Questions -> migrating MySQL to PostgreSQL?

[Oliver Leitner]

well, i havent done that one yet,  but you might want to have a look onto 
this page, that i just "discovered" via google:

http://www.sitepoint.com/article/site-mysql-postgresql-1

there are many more articles about this one.

i hope this helps you further.

Greetings
Oliver Leitner
Technical Staff
http://www.shells.at

On Saturday 12 February 2005 01:18, Erik Norgaard wrote:
> Peter Risdon wrote:
> > Postgresql is an excellent dbms and well worth a look. But if you're
> > starting out, I think mysql is the place to be.
>
> Ok, since the discussion is up, I have used MySQL for years, no problem
> serves my needs. Yet, I'd like to try out that PostgreSQL so many talks
> about. So, how do I migrate?
>
> I want to dump my mysql database - not big - and load it all into
> postgresql - of course it's perlable, but maybe there is an easier
> solution. Second, what do I need to change in my php scripts?
>
> Thanks, Erik

-- 
By reading this mail you agree to the following:

using or giving out the email address and any 
other info of the author of this email is strictly forbidden.
By acting against this agreement the author of this mail 
will take possible legal actions against the abuse.
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: SQL Questions -> migrating MySQL to PostgreSQL?

[Mike Jeays]

On Fri, 2005-02-11 at 19:18, Erik Norgaard wrote:
> Peter Risdon wrote:
> > Postgresql is an excellent dbms and well worth a look. But if you're
> > starting out, I think mysql is the place to be.
> 
> Ok, since the discussion is up, I have used MySQL for years, no problem 
> serves my needs. Yet, I'd like to try out that PostgreSQL so many talks 
> about. So, how do I migrate?
> 
> I want to dump my mysql database - not big - and load it all into 
> postgresql - of course it's perlable, but maybe there is an easier 
> solution. Second, what do I need to change in my php scripts?
> 
> Thanks, Erik

There is an article on converting a database from MySQL to PostgreSQL on
the FreeBSD Diary.

I have done it myself with a very small database - I just did a
mysqldump, and made a few edits by hand to remove MySQLisms, and then
loaded it with psql.  No major gotchas at all.

I prefer PostgreSQL - it seems a more complete and professional product
to me - not to speak ill of MySQL, which is enormously successful.

A pity that PgAccess still needs lots of work, as a competitor to
Access.



___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: SQL Questions -> migrating MySQL to PostgreSQL?

[Erik Norgaard]

Peter Risdon wrote:
Postgresql is an excellent dbms and well worth a look. But if you're
starting out, I think mysql is the place to be.
Ok, since the discussion is up, I have used MySQL for years, no problem 
serves my needs. Yet, I'd like to try out that PostgreSQL so many talks 
about. So, how do I migrate?

I want to dump my mysql database - not big - and load it all into 
postgresql - of course it's perlable, but maybe there is an easier 
solution. Second, what do I need to change in my php scripts?

Thanks, Erik
--
Ph: +34.666334818   web: http://www.locolomo.org
S/MIME Certificate: http://www.locolomo.org/crt/2004071206.crt
Subject ID:  A9:76:7A:ED:06:95:2B:8D:48:97:CE:F2:3F:42:C8:F2:22:DE:4C:B9
Fingerprint: 4A:E8:63:38:46:F6:9A:5D:B4:DC:29:41:3F:62:D3:0A:73:25:67:C2
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: SQL Questions (MySQL or PostgreSQL?)

[Louis LeBlanc]

Then again, you could just ride the fence and install them both . . .

I'd also suggest you start with MySQL though.  As mentioned
previously, it's the more commonly used DB.  I started with
PostgreSQL, and wound up having to install MySQL anyway because I
wanted to try some apps that requred it.  No big deal, they listen on
different ports, and if you aren't running anything "real life" you
won't notice them on a reasonably modern system.

Besides, there are more MySQL books out there.

Lou

On 02/11/05 06:59 PM, Ean Kingston sat at the `puter and typed:
> On February 11, 2005 05:17 pm, Sean wrote:
> > Jan Branbergen wrote:
> > >>I would like to install SQL here for my own use, not for any real life
> > >>
> > >>currently, round now for learning.
> > >>
> > >>Right now plan to install MySQL.
> > >>Looking through the ports there is numerous version and some say for
> > >>
> > >>server, some say for client.
> > >>
> > >>Looking for some tips as to what version of SQL and tools to
> > >>install?
> > >>Also wondering if anyone can point me towards documentation in my
> > >>learning efforts?
> > >
> > > i would like to suggest PostgreSQL if your objective is learning SQL.
> > > MySQL only provides a subset.
> > >
> > > it is by no means more complicated to install or to get started.
> > >
> > > regards,
> > >
> > > Jan
> >
> > What is the difference between PostgreSQL and MySQL?
> >  From what I see MySQL seems to be more common.
> 
> From a basic design standpoint, MySQL was designed to be a fast language 
> compatible RDBMS system. To achieve that goal they cut out a lot of features. 
> Particularly those related to integrity, consistency, and validity checking.
> 
> Postgres is designed to be a fully functional RDBMS that complies with the 
> SQL 
> standard. It includes integrity, consistency, and validity checking that 
> MySQL lacks.
> 
> I also think one of the reasons that MySQL is more common than Postgres is 
> because when they were both starting out, MySQL got a functional RDBMS out 
> much sooner than Postgres did and when Postgres did get theirs out, MySQL was 
> a lot faster (because of the lack of data validation). Postgres has since 
> closed the gap a lot on the speed issues while keeping the data integrity.
> 
> On the other hand, there are a lot more tools that make managing a MySQL 
> server easier.
> 
> -- 
> Ean Kingston
> 
> E-Mail: ean AT hedron DOT org
> URL: http://www.hedron.org/
> ___
> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
> 

-- 
Louis LeBlanc  FreeBSD-at-keyslapper-DOT-net
Fully Funded Hobbyist,   KeySlapper Extrordinaire :)
Please send off-list email to: leblanc at keyslapper d.t net
Key fingerprint = C5E7 4762 F071 CE3B ED51  4FB8 AF85 A2FE 80C8 D9A2

Factorials were someone's attempt to make math LOOK exciting.


pgpAY5dGpj28N.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: SQL Questions (MySQL or PostgreSQL?)

[Ean Kingston]

On February 11, 2005 05:17 pm, Sean wrote:
> Jan Branbergen wrote:
> >>I would like to install SQL here for my own use, not for any real life
> >>
> >>currently, round now for learning.
> >>
> >>Right now plan to install MySQL.
> >>Looking through the ports there is numerous version and some say for
> >>
> >>server, some say for client.
> >>
> >>Looking for some tips as to what version of SQL and tools to
> >>install?
> >>Also wondering if anyone can point me towards documentation in my
> >>learning efforts?
> >
> > i would like to suggest PostgreSQL if your objective is learning SQL.
> > MySQL only provides a subset.
> >
> > it is by no means more complicated to install or to get started.
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > Jan
>
> What is the difference between PostgreSQL and MySQL?
>  From what I see MySQL seems to be more common.

From a basic design standpoint, MySQL was designed to be a fast language 
compatible RDBMS system. To achieve that goal they cut out a lot of features. 
Particularly those related to integrity, consistency, and validity checking.

Postgres is designed to be a fully functional RDBMS that complies with the SQL 
standard. It includes integrity, consistency, and validity checking that 
MySQL lacks.

I also think one of the reasons that MySQL is more common than Postgres is 
because when they were both starting out, MySQL got a functional RDBMS out 
much sooner than Postgres did and when Postgres did get theirs out, MySQL was 
a lot faster (because of the lack of data validation). Postgres has since 
closed the gap a lot on the speed issues while keeping the data integrity.

On the other hand, there are a lot more tools that make managing a MySQL 
server easier.

-- 
Ean Kingston

E-Mail: ean AT hedron DOT org
URL: http://www.hedron.org/
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Anthony Atkielski]

Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes:

> And the standard answer is RTFM

I don't know of anything in the manuals or on the Web site that answers
this type of question.

-- 
Anthony


___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Michael E . Conlen]

On Feb 11, 2005, at 6:14 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote:
Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes:
And the standard answer is RTFM
I don't know of anything in the manuals or on the Web site that answers
this type of question.
This is a mailing list for questions about how to use FreeBSD, not why 
you should or shouldn't use FreeBSD.

We generally don't care if you use FreeBSD or not.
--
Michael Conlen
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as

[Jerry McAllister]

> 
> athony atkielski =~ /tm452\d/ ?

I was beginning to suspect some such.
Maybe worse.

jerry

> 
> -- 
> If I write a signature, my emails will appear more personalised.
> ___
> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
> 

___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Eric Kjeldergaard]

athony atkielski =~ /tm452\d/ ?

-- 
If I write a signature, my emails will appear more personalised.
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Chad Leigh -- Shire . Net LLC]

On Feb 11, 2005, at 4:14 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote:
Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes:
And the standard answer is RTFM
I don't know of anything in the manuals or on the Web site that answers
this type of question.
Typical.  Cut out the rest of what I said.
You need to ask the right people, not this list.  To find out who the 
right people are, you should RTFM or in the case RTFWS

Chad
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: DNS' bind 9 chrooted by default ?

[Emanuel Strobl]

Am Freitag, 11. Februar 2005 23:29 schrieb kilim:
> Hello,
>
> regarding Bind 9, here:
>
> http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/network-bind9.htm
>l
>
> its stated that the configuration file resides in
> /var/named/etc/namedb/ and that bind will be chrooted automatically.
>
> Yet here:
>
> http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/network-dns.html
>
> steps are shown for manual chrooting of bind (not version 9)
>
> So I just want to confirm it with you guys, is bind 9.3 really
> chrooted by default on 5.3 ?

Yes it is, at least on my oldest 5.3-STABLE box, I don't have a 5.3-RELEASE 
handy to verify.
Your configuration directory will still be /etc/namedb, 
not /var/named/etc/namedb since, by default, the chroot environment gets auto 
updated.
See these options for rc.conf for further details:
named_enable="NO"   # Run named, the DNS server (or NO).
named_program="/usr/sbin/named" # path to named, if you want a different one.
named_flags="-u bind"   # Flags for named
named_pidfile="/var/run/named/pid" # Must set this in named.conf as well
named_chrootdir="/var/named"# Chroot directory (or "" not to auto-chroot 
it)
named_chroot_autoupdate="YES"   # Automatically install/update chrooted
# components of named. See /etc/rc.d/named.
named_symlink_enable="YES"  # Symlink the chrooted pid file


Ragards,

-Harry



pgpikm3YUmOFH.pgp
Description: PGP signature

RE: configuring Squid as a Transparent proxy in BSD with ipfw

[mmiranda]

-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Diego Camarena
>González
>Subject: configuring Squid as a Transparent proxy in BSD with ipfw 
>
>
>Does anyone knows how can i configure Squid as a Transparent proxy 
>using IPFW assuming that i have already configured Squid with Samba 
>authentication.

You can not mix transparent proxy and squid authentication, its in the squid
FAQ.

---
Miguel Miranda
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Chad Leigh -- Shire . Net LLC]

On Feb 11, 2005, at 3:56 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote:
Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes:
CIOs don't hang out in public mailing lists asking such questions
But some of us hanging out on such lists have to answer these questions
when talking to CIOs.  And saying "I don't know" just doesn't wash.
And the standard answer is RTFM
In this case RTFC or RTFsomething
We are not your errand boys.  People in this list are not the ones to 
answer this question.  Find the appropriate people and ask them.  Start 
at www.freebsd.org ...

Chad
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

configuring Squid as a Transparent proxy in BSD with ipfw

[Diego Camarena González]

Does anyone knows how can i configure Squid as a Transparent proxy 
using IPFW assuming that i have already configured Squid with Samba 
authentication.
I've configure Squid that allow users to log on pages using their smb 
account but i have to configure every computer on my Lan to connect to 
the proxy server. How can i configure IPFW and Squid to work as a 
trasnparent proxy to work on every computer authenticating samba users 
in my lan that uses internet explorer.
Net interfaces:
xl0 : 10.254.254.253  --- LAN ip
xl1 : 172.21.14.253--- This ip is used to make the SMB 
authentication and get the internet connection
Requeriments:
OS: FreeBSD 5.2
Authentication module: smb_auth
Firewall: IPFW
Could anyone please send me a configuration that has been proved or any 
idea? i have already read the FAQ about squid transparent proxy but any 
of the configurations works with samba authentication and IPFW


 
 
{#358;#373;#65155;#321;#1602;#65155;#1106;#354;}







-
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Net: La mejor conexión a internet y 25MB extra a tu correo por $100 al 
mes.
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!

[Joshua Tinnin]

On Friday 11 February 2005 02:44 pm, Anthony Atkielski 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Joshua Tinnin writes:
> > Hmmm, let's see, Anthony Atielski, 30 posts on this subject alone,
> > on a tech help list. Makes you wonder what sort of priorities you
> > have.
>
> At the moment, I'm worried about FreeBSD.

Listen.

You come in here making vague accusations of legal wrongdoing, not just 
once, but TWICE! With no foundation or background, I might add. You 
make these accusations with close to zero actual knowledge of the 
situations involved. Do you know what that's called? That's called a 
cartooney threat.

> > Anyway, if you feel that way then let the thread die, or take it to
> > -advocacy.
>
> I reply to the posts in whichever list they occur.  While I agree
> that it should be in -advocacy, if the posts are on this list, then I
> naturally reply to them here.

Fine. Worry and worry, then. See what you get.

- jt
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Anthony Atkielski]

Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes:

> CIOs don't hang out in public mailing lists asking such questions

But some of us hanging out on such lists have to answer these questions
when talking to CIOs.  And saying "I don't know" just doesn't wash.

-- 
Anthony


___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Anthony Atkielski]

Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes:

> This is not the right place to ask such questions.

Why is it called freebsd-questions?

> If you are
> *seriously* concerned about this, and do not think that the FreeBSD 
> core / foundation and their lawyers have not thought about this, then 
> you should bring it up with them, and perhaps do a little leg work 
> yourself and go through the codebase and make sure.

How do I "bring it up with them"?  Where _are_ they?

-- 
Anthony


___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Anthony Atkielski]

Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes:

> I don't know.  Go ask them.  Look in the codebase yourself, or pay
> someone to do so.

Is this what you would tell someone contemplating a multimillion-dollar
investment in a FreeBSD rollout to 10,000 servers? "I don't know"? "Look
it up yourself"?

This project may need a lot more than a logo.

-- 
Anthony


___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Chad Leigh -- Shire . Net LLC]

On Feb 11, 2005, at 3:51 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote:
Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes:
You ask a dumb question, get such an answer.
Be sure to tell the CIOs that.  That'll do wonders for adoption of
FreeBSD.
CIOs don't hang out in public mailing lists asking such questions
Chad


You make assumptions that just because someone is paying someone to
work on FreeBSD that no one has thought of the copyright implications.
Because I know that it happens regularly.  Geeks usually know nothing
about copyright and think that they are above copyright law.
The people running the FreeBSD project are smarter than that.
Then they are also smarter than the people running Microsoft, IBM,
Adobe, Apple, Sun, and many other multibillion-dollar companies, all of
which have regular problems with copyright and patent law.  The
difference is that these large companies can afford to defend 
themselves
in court (and even then they sometimes lose).

And I am not your errand-boy.  If you are seriously worried about 
this,
then you need to  make the investment necessary to clear your mind on
the issue.  Asking other people to do so is arrogant.
I'm trying to keep people from shooting themselves in the feet.  Why is
there always such hostility towards this?
--
Anthony
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to 
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Chad Leigh -- Shire . Net LLC]

On Feb 11, 2005, at 3:46 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote:
Joshua Tinnin writes:
I don't think you understand the history of FreeBSD. Many people who
work at Yahoo! are committers, and their employer not only knows about
this but encourages it.
That's not good enough.  The employer has to assign its copyrights as
well, or waive the usual work-for-hire arrangement that is implicit for
employees writing code within the scope of their work.
To what end?
I'd hate to see FreeBSD become unavailable because of copyright issues.
A lot of organizations are buried by this type of litigation.  And
frankly, the cavalier attitude about such serious questions that I
sometimes see displayed does not reassure me.
This is not the right place to ask such questions.  If you are 
*seriously* concerned about this, and do not think that the FreeBSD 
core / foundation and their lawyers have not thought about this, then 
you should bring it up with them, and perhaps do a little leg work 
yourself and go through the codebase and make sure.

Chad
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Anthony Atkielski]

Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes:

> You ask a dumb question, get such an answer.

Be sure to tell the CIOs that.  That'll do wonders for adoption of
FreeBSD.

> You make assumptions that just because someone is paying someone to
> work on FreeBSD that no one has thought of the copyright implications.

Because I know that it happens regularly.  Geeks usually know nothing
about copyright and think that they are above copyright law.

> The people running the FreeBSD project are smarter than that.

Then they are also smarter than the people running Microsoft, IBM,
Adobe, Apple, Sun, and many other multibillion-dollar companies, all of
which have regular problems with copyright and patent law.  The
difference is that these large companies can afford to defend themselves
in court (and even then they sometimes lose).

> And I am not your errand-boy.  If you are seriously worried about this,
> then you need to  make the investment necessary to clear your mind on 
> the issue.  Asking other people to do so is arrogant.

I'm trying to keep people from shooting themselves in the feet.  Why is
there always such hostility towards this?

-- 
Anthony


___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: SQL Questions (MySQL or PostgreSQL?)

[Andrew L. Gould]

On Friday 11 February 2005 04:17 pm, Sean wrote:
>
> What is the difference between PostgreSQL and MySQL?
>  From what I see MySQL seems to be more common.
>
>   Sean

What.not enough holy wars this week?  ;-)

PostgreSQL and MySQL are both good database server applications.  Here 
are some links that you might find useful.

http://www.builderau.com.au/architect/database/0,39024547,20266351,00.htm
http://www.databasejournal.com/features/mysql/article.php/3288951

If you need more info, visit their websites or google.
http://www.mysql.com/
http://www.postgresql.org/

MySQL is very popular for web applications.  From a marketing 
perspective, it benefited greatly from the acronym "LAMP".

If you're distributing database applications, you'll probably prefer 
PostgreSQL's license.

My personal preference is PostgreSQL.  I use it for data analysis and 
database applications that use MS Access as a desktop front-end.  It's 
been fast and rock-solid.  The current version, version 8, is the first 
version with a port that is native to Windows.

I also share certain public data with Windows users with laptops.  Since 
MySQL uses less disk space to store the database and has had a Windows 
version for several years, it was the better choice for their needs.

As I said, both are good database servers.  You have to match the server 
to your own needs.

Andrew Gould
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Dumb question about ports/packages

[Ian Moore]

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 17:50, Matt Rechkemmer wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 08, 2005 at 09:45:07AM -0500, Lowell Gilbert wrote:
> These are probably RTFM questions, but I didn't seem to find a mention of
> the base system packages in the UPGRADING document.  So how would one
> update a base package, check it out of CVS and just compile/install like
> normal?

There are 2 UPDATING files - /usr/ports/UPDATING for the ports collection 
& /usr/src/UPDATING for the base system.

> Should upgrading the entire system become a necessity (say 4.10 to 4.11),
> would a reboot be *absolutely* necessary?
Yes, if you update your kernel, you can't load it except by re-booting.
The 'correct' and safest way to update is to do the update, as the handbook 
says, involves doing

# mergemaster -p
# make installworld
# mergemaster
# reboot
in single user mode.

>
> Final question :-), is there anyway to determine if a base package is out
> of date? Or is just wise to leave the base alone and upgrade when a new
> release comes along.

You should at least update your system when security vulnerabilities occur in 
the base system. To minimise upgrades, follow the security  branch for your 
release - this only has security fixes, not new features. See the handbook 
for details. Subscribe to the Security Notifications list to get notification 
of base system vunerabilities.

Cheers,
-- 
Ian

GPG Key: http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~imoore/no-spam.asc


pgpCYVlBgi3rG.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Anthony Atkielski]

Joshua Tinnin writes:

> Do you have any proof of malfeasence?

I don't need it.  That's the way copyright normally works; it's not
malfeasance.  In order to protect the project, the status of copyright
in all code written for the project must be very clearly established, in
writing.

> Are you planning on suing someone, or is this meant to be useful in
> some way?

It's meant to protect the project from people like yourself who don't
think it can ever happen to them.  I've seen corporations and
individuals burned badly and sometimes put out of business because of
their inability or unwillingness to consider legal issues, and I'd hate
to see that happen to FreeBSD.

-- 
Anthony


___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Anthony Atkielski]

Joshua Tinnin writes:

> I don't think you understand the history of FreeBSD. Many people who
> work at Yahoo! are committers, and their employer not only knows about
> this but encourages it.

That's not good enough.  The employer has to assign its copyrights as
well, or waive the usual work-for-hire arrangement that is implicit for
employees writing code within the scope of their work.

> To what end?

I'd hate to see FreeBSD become unavailable because of copyright issues.
A lot of organizations are buried by this type of litigation.  And
frankly, the cavalier attitude about such serious questions that I
sometimes see displayed does not reassure me.

-- 
Anthony


___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: SQL Questions (MySQL or PostgreSQL?)

[Kevin Kinsey]

Sean wrote:
What is the difference between PostgreSQL and MySQL?
From what I see MySQL seems to be more common.
Sean

There are a lot of threads on a forum I frequent (www.phpbuilder.com/board)
that address this issue.  Here are a few links.
http://www.phpbuilder.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=10289834
http://www.phpbuilder.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=10290286
http://www.phpbuilder.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=10278195
http://www.phpbuilder.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=10277406
http://www.phpbuilder.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=10276119
And, there are plenty more.  The search that got these (URI will wrap
in your mail, I expect):
http://www.phpbuilder.com/board/search.php?action=showresults&searchid=755680&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
Good luck!
Kevin Kinsey
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Peter Risdon]

Can I suggest a new mailing list - [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Peter.

On Fri, 2005-02-11 at 23:42 +0100, Anthony Atkielski wrote:
> Andrew L. Gould writes:
> 
> > That's an assumption.
> 
> The project needs to ask for proof of this, and not simply assume it.
> 
> > We could as easily assume that the employers:
> 
> Never assume anything in law.  A wrong assumption could bury the
> project.
> 

___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!!

[Anthony Atkielski]

Joshua Tinnin writes:

> Hmmm, let's see, Anthony Atielski, 30 posts on this subject alone, on a
> tech help list. Makes you wonder what sort of priorities you have.

At the moment, I'm worried about FreeBSD.

> Anyway, if you feel that way then let the thread die, or take it to 
> -advocacy.

I reply to the posts in whichever list they occur.  While I agree that
it should be in -advocacy, if the posts are on this list, then I
naturally reply to them here.

-- 
Anthony


___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Anthony Atkielski]

Andrew L. Gould writes:

> That's an assumption.

The project needs to ask for proof of this, and not simply assume it.

> We could as easily assume that the employers:

Never assume anything in law.  A wrong assumption could bury the
project.

-- 
Anthony


___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Chad Leigh -- Shire . Net LLC]

On Feb 11, 2005, at 3:40 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote:
Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes:
Their employers are paying them TO WORK on FreeBSD. They are not 
taking
their code that they write for their employers and also sticking it in
FreeBSD.  Big difference.
Not if their work consists of writing code.  In that case, the 
copyright
in the code belongs to their employer (in the U.S., and in a number of
other countries with similar provisions).
Yes there is a difference.  If the employer assigns it to the FreeBSD 
project.  That is what we are talking about.

Under 17 USC 101:
"A 'work made for hire' is—
  (1) a work prepared by an employee within the scope of his or her
employment; or
   (2) a work specially ordered or commissioned for use as a
contribution to a collective work, as a part of a motion picture or
other audiovisual work, as a translation, as a supplementary work, as a
compilation, as an instructional text, as a test, as answer material 
for
a test, or as an atlas, if the parties expressly agree in a written
instrument signed by them that the work shall be considered a work made
for hire. [...]"

Note that a "collective work" is generally a book or a movie, not a
computer operating system:
"A 'collective work' is a work, such as a periodical issue, anthology,
or encyclopedia, in which a number of contributions, constituting
separate and independent works in themselves, are assembled into a
collective whole."
"Computer program" is separately defined, which means that it is not a
collective work.
In the first case, they are allowing it to happen and assign
the copyrights as necessary.
Do they do this in writing before the code becomes a part of the
project?  Do they have a written agreement with their employees that
explicitly waives their work-for-hire interest in the copyright?

I don't know.  Go ask them.  Look in the codebase yourself, or pay 
someone to do so.

Chad

___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to 
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Chad Leigh -- Shire . Net LLC]

On Feb 11, 2005, at 3:30 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote:
Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes:
Look in the codebase
No, tell me right here.  CIOs aren't going to look in the codebase to
try to find out if it's legal for them to use the operating system.
You ask a dumb question, get such an answer.
You make assumptions that just because someone is paying someone to 
work on FreeBSD that no one has thought of the copyright implications.  
The people running the FreeBSD project are smarter than that.

And I am not your errand-boy.  If you are seriously worried about this, 
then you need to  make the investment necessary to clear your mind on 
the issue.  Asking other people to do so is arrogant.

Chad
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Anthony Atkielski]

Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes:

> Sorry, but the employers are freely offering the code and assigning
> copyrights as necessary.

OK, as long as the copyrights are assigned before any of the code finds
its way into the released product.

-- 
Anthony


___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!

[Anthony Atkielski]

Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes:

> Their employers are paying them TO WORK on FreeBSD. They are not taking
> their code that they write for their employers and also sticking it in
> FreeBSD.  Big difference.

Not if their work consists of writing code.  In that case, the copyright
in the code belongs to their employer (in the U.S., and in a number of
other countries with similar provisions).

Under 17 USC 101:

"A 'work made for hire' is—

  (1) a work prepared by an employee within the scope of his or her
employment; or

   (2) a work specially ordered or commissioned for use as a
contribution to a collective work, as a part of a motion picture or
other audiovisual work, as a translation, as a supplementary work, as a
compilation, as an instructional text, as a test, as answer material for
a test, or as an atlas, if the parties expressly agree in a written
instrument signed by them that the work shall be considered a work made
for hire. [...]"

Note that a "collective work" is generally a book or a movie, not a
computer operating system:

"A 'collective work' is a work, such as a periodical issue, anthology,
or encyclopedia, in which a number of contributions, constituting
separate and independent works in themselves, are assembled into a
collective whole."

"Computer program" is separately defined, which means that it is not a
collective work.

> In the first case, they are allowing it to happen and assign
> the copyrights as necessary.

Do they do this in writing before the code becomes a part of the
project?  Do they have a written agreement with their employees that
explicitly waives their work-for-hire interest in the copyright?

-- 
Anthony


___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Re: DNS' bind 9 chrooted by default ?

[Oliver Leitner]

i guess you would have to set the bind directory to be jailed in the rc.conf, 
but thats just a guess, i have no dns running on a bsd here.

Greetings
Oliver Leitner
Technical Staff
http://www.shells.at

On Friday 11 February 2005 23:29, kilim wrote:
> Hello,
>
> regarding Bind 9, here:
>
> http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/network-bind9.htm
>l
>
> its stated that the configuration file resides in
> /var/named/etc/namedb/ and that bind will be chrooted automatically.
>
> Yet here:
>
> http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/network-dns.html
>
> steps are shown for manual chrooting of bind (not version 9)
>
> So I just want to confirm it with you guys, is bind 9.3 really
> chrooted by default on 5.3 ?
>
> I mean, don't have to do any of the steps as stated in the second link, for
> chrooting ?
>
> Thank you
>
>
>
> ___
> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to
> "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

-- 
By reading this mail you agree to the following:

using or giving out the email address and any 
other info of the author of this email is strictly forbidden.
By acting against this agreement the author of this mail 
will take possible legal actions against the abuse.
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"