Re: who wrote this
So, I haven't yet thought of a good, adequately lean, but clarifying phrase, though if one comes to me I will submit it, but a clarifying phrase could well be included and the hitler example remain with it because it establishes a very strong case-in-point example. How about something like this: http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html === Examples of entries that should not usually be declared 'offensive': * Quotes from controversial historical figures, no matter how despicable they were. * Jokes about emacs/vi or your favorite technology, === Or something along these lines. It gets the point accross better than "hitler quotes" and does not upset a segment of our users. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 03:23:56PM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: All I have to say is WTF is wrong with whomever wrote this page. http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html == >>Examples of entries that should not usually be declared 'offensive': >>* Hitler quotes. == I think the point is that it does not specifically belong in the offensive list just because the author was Hitler, or for that matter any other offensive person. Do you want it to say, it doesn't belong in the offensive list just because Ronald Reagan said it - or that Limburg guy? They are offensive persons. Well, maybe those _do_ all belong in the offensive list. But, the above is the meaning for the statement on the page. jerry No Jerry, you misunderstood my point. I'm not talking about which quotes go into which list. My complaint is about how that web page is structured, and that its wording should be reworked. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
Hm, I'm astonished. I've never seen that page before... English is not my native language and I may not understand all nuances though. Does that phrase mean "Hitler quotes are not usually be declared 'offensive'"? For me that means that there some (and very little) his quotes that should be treated as 'offensive'. Hi Boris, I'm not a native speaker either, but it seems to say that even if hitler said it, it may still be appropriate for the random quotes list. And "astonished" is exactly what I'm feeling too. Best Regards, Artur eBoundHost.com http://www.eboundhost.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 08:12:36PM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: >PS. What should be abolished on the grounds of decency is top posting >& rehashing topics that have been gone on about ad nauseum, & on the >wrong mailing list. My apologies for top posting, will never happen again. I've never posted to a list before. That's OK but what isn't OK is to take somebody elses post & selectively edit it when quoting from it, like you have done to my post. You also failed to address most of my points. Frank, No offense, but who has time to go through all points of every post and respond. There was much said here but i want to keep this post on topic. >>Learn to >>moderate yourselves, this is what "freedom" is all based on, being good >>to >>others. > >Nonsense. Freedom is about the right to voice disagreement with >others amongst other things. Do you even notice the irony in what you said? Artur, it was meant to be ironic :) I haven't got the right to stop top posting no more than you have. My apologies, I'm reading everything as an attack now a days. :-) And you haven't got the right to excise Hitler's name from FreeBSD material. Don't you see the irony in that? When he banned certain artists on the grounds of "decency" just like you're proposing to do. Two points 1) first of all, i don't think that freebsd operating system is an appropriate forum to express political views. so whether we are for or against censorship or democracy or fascism or communism, it really does not matter. what matters is how good our coding is, and how appropriate the wording on our website. because like it or not, we have to present a decent website that does not offend our users and does not make us look bad in front of non-users. 2) That's the thing, banning hitlers name is not at all what i'm trying to do. I think we should keep his quotes in the database of quotes, if that's what the community thinks is appropriate. What I'm suggesting is that we remove his name from the website: (http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html) because it seems to innapropriately focus the attention away from the program (Fortune) and unecessarily makes the FreeBSD community seem like a bunch of insensitive jerks because we seemingly condone hitlers sayings. People who come accross this wording will not stop to think about all the deep philosophical reasons why the text needs to be there to protect freedoms. All they will see is that we seemingly support Hitler. Why don't we have other names controversial during our times like Mussolini, Stalin, or even Gorge Bush? Just because he was "evil" doesn't mean he and the rest of his henchmen didn't have something interesting to say about the human condition. If you don't believe me, read "Brave New World: Revisited" by A.Huxley. This has nothing to do with anything that I'm saying. Listen, my grandmother also has some interesting things to say but you don't put her name on the front page of the Fortune program because it's not appropriate. Same thing here. Just not an appropriate forum. Follow-ups to chat&freebsd.org please. Done and done. Best regards, Artur ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [OT] who wrote this
>Lets also remember that history is written by the victors, >which means they LIE! >neal. Wow neal, that's very nice of you. are you saying that hitler didn't do any of these things? I'm not even going to respond to you here, just going to re-post your words to show that there are still people like you out there... And as far as your sage to the moon quote, don't think too much of your own sagedom, there is always someone younger and smarter. You would be better off being a little less "sagy" and a bit nicer. Now to the rest of you who are for some reason turning this into a Censorship issue. It's not. I'm asking to replace the text on the HTML front page with a completely unnecessary reference to hitler. We're not talking about pruning the quotes database for controversial speakers. having hitlers name there does nothing positive for the project and polarizes the viewing audience because it offends the vast majority of people, 99% of whom are not going to spend an evening writing to a mailing list to have the issue fixed. They won't think about the deep philosophical reasons why this should be there in principle. They are going to read the page and think to themselves that the freebsd community are a bunch of jerks. There are far better ways to express the thought than by simply saying "hitler quotes". For instance it can be replaced with "controversial persons" or something similar. He was not the only such person in history, so we should not be focusing only on him. Best Regards, Artur eBoundHost.com http://www.eboundhost.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
PS. What should be abolished on the grounds of decency is top posting & rehashing topics that have been gone on about ad nauseum, & on the wrong mailing list. My apologies for top posting, will never happen again. I've never posted to a list before. Learn to moderate yourselves, this is what "freedom" is all based on, being good to others. Nonsense. Freedom is about the right to voice disagreement with others amongst other things. Do you even notice the irony in what you said? Best Regards, Artur eBoundHost.com http://www.eboundhost.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
I'm not going to reply to your personal attack but will only say that you are definitely much smarter, more web savy and better looking than me. It's not an ``attack'', but merely a request to avoid what may be considered as a ``fault'' of the FreeBSD Project. As far as the rest of your comment, yes, I am only interested in removing the reference to hitler from the front page of that topic that's all. And unfortunately I do not know how to post patches to the freebsd-www list so if you would be so kind as to send me an email with a pointer, I would sincerely appreciate it. You don't have to spend a lot of time working with HTML, SGML or the CVS tree. A mere proposal for a text that improves what you consider buggy in the web page, should be fine. We can do the rest. - Giorgos Ok, thank you, I will submit the proposed changes. I appreciate your reply. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
Erik, This is a very wise thing that you just said, and I agree with you almost completely. The difference is that your very own words are a brilliant way to say it, and would be wonderful to replace the "Hitler quotes" that is there now. So, if someone would replace it with your quote, I would be completely satisfied: the speaker of the quote is not to be the basis for categorizing the quote as offensive. In fact, I do not think that the quotes should be removed from the database itself, my only objection is that by having "hitler quotes" on the front page, we are virtually monopolizing the page to this topic. Best Regards, Artur eBoundHost.com http://www.eboundhost.com - Original Message - From: "Erik Osterholm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "eBoundHost: Artur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 6:58 PM Subject: Re: who wrote this On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 05:53:54PM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: I would appreciate if someone would help me find the person who can help to modify the text on this page. http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html I think it can be worded differently and get the point accross without giving any extra attention to this monster. Best Regards, Artur Do I understand correctly that you are not concerned so much with the inclusion of quotes by Adolf Hitler, but you don't like the way the web page is presented? If that's the case, my argument for maintaining the current state of the webpage is that it's going to become a repeated issue. Without the notice that Hitler quotes are not automatically considered offensive, a lot of people will probably see a non-offensive Hitler quote and argue that it should be moved to the offensive file simply due to the attribution. Put another way, the quote "What luck for the rulers that men do not think." is not considered offensive. Merely adding the attribution, then, should not cause it to be moved to the "offensive" file. That said, people have argued in the past that it should be, simply because Hitler is in the text. Putting the notice on the webpage at http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html is a public expression that the speaker of the quote is not to be the basis for categorizing the quote as offensive. Erik ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
If you are not bothered by the fact that the fortune cookie database contains Hitler quotes, but you merely want to ammend the text of the web site, then you are more than welcome to post patches to the freebsd-www list. That's where most of the work on the website is discussed, and reviewed. - Giorgos I'm not going to reply to your personal attack but will only say that you are definitely much smarter, more web savy and better looking than me. As far as the rest of your comment, yes, I am only interested in removing the reference to hitler from the front page of that topic that's all. And unfortunately I do not know how to post patches to the freebsd-www list so if you would be so kind as to send me an email with a pointer, I would sincerely appreciate it. Best Regards, Artur eBoundHost.com http://www.eboundhost.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
yea that's a great answer. thanks for your insight. this is not some technical question that can be researched, this in fact tarnishes the image of the freebsd community, so it's not such an easy "go rtfm" type of deal. problem is that i just came accross it myself and obviously nothing has been done about it in the past. so i would like to ask of people, is there no better way to get the point accross? do you have to have this wording? is it set in stone and can't be changed? I insist strongly that we should rework this example, and if anyone insists strongly on not doing it, I would like to understand what motive can be possibly behind this other than something very deeply evil. Best Regards, Artur eBoundHost.com http://www.eboundhost.com - Original Message - From: "Giorgos Keramidas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "eBoundHost: Artur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 5:46 PM Subject: Re: who wrote this On 2007-11-25 15:23, "eBoundHost: Artur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: All I have to say is WTF is wrong with whomever wrote this page. http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html == Examples of entries that should not usually be declared 'offensive': * Hitler quotes. == Ok I understand that some moron wrote it, but why has nobody removed this garbage? There have been long and vicious discussions about this particular issue, on several mailing lists. Please refer to the archives, because repeating the whole shebang is not really a productive use of everyone's time. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
T, I don't know any soft way to say this. The man, Hitler, was the most evil person that our generation has ever witnessed. The things he did and what was done on his behalf are unspeakable and give him a special place in whatever hell you believe in. As a society, we should distance ourselves and shun any imagery that puts any kind of human side to this monster. Saying that he loved dogs and was an art afficionado is completely irrelevant if you know anything about his actions. There are far more worthy quotes that can be put into FreeBSD and I don't think its debateable. What really gets me is the fact that this is one of the examples put on the FreeBSD page. I'm all for freedom and libertarian ideals, but for petes' sake, have some compassion and understand where your liberty crosses over into the pain of someone else's family. Why didn't they put on that page along with "quotes about hitler", "jokes about cancer" and "funny rape stories." I don't want to outlaw anything, but have some good taste. Learn to moderate yourselves, this is what "freedom" is all based on, being good to others. I would appreciate if someone would help me find the person who can help to modify the text on this page. http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html I think it can be worded differently and get the point accross without giving any extra attention to this monster. Best Regards, Artur eBoundHost.com http://www.eboundhost.com - Original Message - Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 4:11 PM Subject: RE: who wrote this I see that as an example of something that might be offensive on the surface but we might not want to outlaw just as a matter of course. For instance if someone submitted this for the fortune rotation: x Or x Or x I might consider the man to be a maniac but he did utter some truths, Should we automatically disqualify them? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
who wrote this
All I have to say is WTF is wrong with whomever wrote this page. http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html == Examples of entries that should not usually be declared 'offensive': * Hitler quotes. == Ok I understand that some moron wrote it, but why has nobody removed this garbage? Best Regards, Artur eBoundHost.com http://www.eboundhost.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: need Linux help (watch and LVS)
There is a great port called "topless" that works like watch. Best Regards, Artur eBoundHost http://www.eboundhost.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: how many IPFW rules?
I'm not going to brag but this is one hell of a server :-) hardware prices were not a concern when we built it. Thanks for the pointer I'll definitely manpage it now that I know where to start looking. --Original Message-- From: Dan Nelson Sender: To: eBoundHost: Artur Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sent: Oct 30, 2007 23:36 Subject: Re: how many IPFW rules? In the last episode (Oct 30), eBoundHost: Artur said: > Hello FreeBSD people! > > I have a smtp server under attack by what seems like a large botnet. My > inetd is choking under the load and not allowing real mail through. I've > successfully used tshark to find the offenders and put them into ipfw > firewall for port 25. > > So here is my question, I'm currently blocking 55,529 ip addresses and the > server seems pretty snappy, with no noticible load or lag. How many more > rulesets will I be able to handle before things start getting fuzzy? If you've created 55K separate rules and you're not seeing any slowdown, then you must have a fast machine :) Using an ipfw table should be even better, though. That lets you load any number of ip/netmask pairs into a tree-based lookup table and match all addresses using one ipfw rule. The ipfw manpage has examples. -- Dan Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Best Regards, Artur eBoundHost http://www.eboundhost.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
how many IPFW rules?
Hello FreeBSD people! I have a smtp server under attack by what seems like a large botnet. My inetd is choking under the load and not allowing real mail through. I've successfully used tshark to find the offenders and put them into ipfw firewall for port 25. So here is my question, I'm currently blocking 55,529 ip addresses and the server seems pretty snappy, with no noticible load or lag. How many more rulesets will I be able to handle before things start getting fuzzy? Best Regards, Artur eBoundHost.com http://www.eboundhost.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"