Re: which gray is best for print?
On Sep 7, 2008, at 6:22 PM, Bernt Hansson wrote: Polytropon skrev: Anyway, the best reading contrast - black on white - No. The best contrast is light yellow background with black letters. I play around with terminal colors occasionally (a great time waster) but the main colors I care about in a terminal are my vim color scheme... those looks best in a black on white terminal. I know because for years I used a white on black terminal, but always had a hard time seeing the dark blue on black... it finally dawned on me that it would look a lot better if I had a white background (duh!) I guess you could create your own color schemes for everything, but I don't have that kind of time! -- John ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: which gray is best for print?
On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 01:19:00 +0200, cpghost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But do also provide a 1-page version with a sensible print medium CSS (or even a nicely formatted PDF), so that users can create a hard copy version with a minimun of fuss and clicks. The last advice is the best one, I think. PDF has the advantage that it (usually) renders 1:1 as the author intends it (just as PostScript does; anyone remembers Display Ghost Script?). While CSS provides means to setup printing characteristics on the client's site, it's not interpreted correctly by the various browsers (or their common substitutes that do not follow standards), or they may interfere with local browser printing settings. -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: which gray is best for print?
On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 01:33:55 +0200, cpghost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Personally, I really dislike pure white backgrounds on light-emitting surfaces. When reading from a physical book, white is the best background, but when reading it from a CRT or LCD, it hurts my eyes very fast up to a point where I start to get a headache and have to stop after 10 to 20 minutes. While the book paper just reflects light, the screen (CRT or LED) emits light, this seems to have a higher energy that is sometimes not very pleasant to the eye's sensory array. That's why I usually use a user-specific CSS to override that pure-white background and change it to light grey. That's what I like the switch Author mode / user mode in the Opera browser. It strips any CSS stuff from the document and lets me apply my custom color settings. Sometimes, even badly designed pages become readable after all. -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: which gray is best for print?
Polytropon skrev: Anyway, the best reading contrast - black on white - No. The best contrast is light yellow background with black letters. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: which gray is best for print?
On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 00:22:55 +0200, Bernt Hansson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Polytropon skrev: Anyway, the best reading contrast - black on white - No. The best contrast is light yellow background with black letters. The Solaris/CDE X Terminal, I know. :-) -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: which gray is best for print?
So you're saying that the white on my [monster] CRT is not the same as on a future LCD Display? rats:) Not only that, but your monster CRT probably doesn't match a smaller CRT; and an old-ish CRT whose phosphors have aged (and whose focus may have gotten a bit fuzzy) probably doesn't match a new, sharp one. Different LCDs may not match each other either, esp. if they use different backlight technologies or if some of the backlights -- or faceplates -- are subject to color shifts with age. This is due to the nature that these devices use different color spaces (RGB, composed additively, CMY, composed negatively), and most of them even aren't calibrated ... I took all 5 quarters of physics, like most of us, but never got far into optics ... and there's more involved than physics and optics anyway, e.g. the neuropsychology of human visual perception. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: which gray is best for print?
On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 20:36:45 -0700, Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So you're saying that the white on my [monster] CRT is not the same as on a future LCD Display? rats:) Exactly. And compare the black, too, best way to differentiate with CRT and LCD side by side with a fullscreen color black. --I can't see much difference in my new laserjet from my HP500 DeskJet, but then it wasn't a main concern ... . Human perception is another thing. Just because *I* can't notice something, it doesn't imply that (1) others can't and (2) it isn't there. In order to make a human person *feel* the change of a sensory input is linear (e. g. the light intensity increases), you need to increase the actual input in a logarithmic way. http://www.neuro.uu.se/fysiologi/gu/nbb/lectures/WebFech.html I took all 5 quarters of physics, like most of us, but never got far into optics. Physics comes in 5 quarters? 5 * 0.25 = 1.25... :-) And certainly, nothing like *this*. I learned about this when I studied psychology and computational visualistics, but the RGB vs. CMY stuff (additive and subtractive color combination) was part of the basal school education in the GDR. the quality of my writing is much more important that the colors of typeface or background. I really applaud this attitude. You won't find them very often across the web, sadly, because style is more important than content. I've seen things, man, ... But this is an interesting side-bar. It's a very important topic to know about when you're doing DTP stuff. Exact color calibration is very important in this field. So you can understand why there's still a niche market for quality CRT monitors and quality printing devices. Of course, color temperatures and other settings like contrast and brightness are to be considered, too. Really! So far, in my tests [staring at a CRT], I find an off-white reads most easily against a very dark blue. 33; or whatever 66 is. Still experimenting. it's very individual how colors are percepted. If someone with deuteranopia looks at certain color combinations where others may say: Looks good!, they could say: I don't see text there. At least for printed material, black on white is good, and it even can be used for projection media (beamer). When I was at university, some guys put up a presentation with black text on dark bluie background, 10pt serife font. Bah! Unreadable in the last row. -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: which gray is best for print?
On Sep 3, 2008, at 7:14 PM, Gary Kline wrote: This is for any webmaster types: which color gray (in hex, #xx) is best for a site that has probably very long articles? I've googled around and found various grays such as #696969 or #708090, but I haven't found anything that really fits what I want. URL, anybody? Or if there is a color-chooser in ports, that too, altho I haven't found anything in ports/x11 or ports/www. Black on white is best for readability. No question about that. See various usability studies by Jakob Nielsen others. Dark blue on white (very dark blue) is not as good, but better than the other alternatives. No reason to choose any other combination, unless you choose to go with 'style' over usability. But since you specifically asked about long blocks of text, I'd guess usability is at the top of your agenda. No need to use web safe colors anymore, in my opinion. Hardly anyone uses 256 color cards at this stage of the game. Again, see the many studies of hardware usage, or your own web logs. I'm reading this email with black on white, and you probably are too. There's a good reason for that, I think! To prevent boredom, two shades of deep gray or blue-gray would be besy. I may be wrong, but no one ever read a long block of text because of the color of the font. A better way to prevent boredom is to write interesting text! Just my two cents. -- John tia, gary -- Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Websites for On-line Collectible Dealers Identry, LLC John Almberg (631) 546-5079 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.identry.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: which gray is best for print?
Hi there, To prevent boredom, two shades of deep gray or blue-gray would be besy. I may be wrong, but no one ever read a long block of text because of the color of the font. A better way to prevent boredom is to write interesting text! And do not make the mistake of putting your long block of interesting text on the web! Very few people (if any) will be reading it. You can read a book like that but not a web content. Break down your text into manageble chunks (two, three paragrahs at most) and link them appropriately. HTH -- Zbigniew Szalbot www.LCWords.com smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: which gray is best for print?
On Friday 05 September 2008 08:36:45 pm Gary Kline wrote: On Fri, Sep 05, 2008 at 10:38:59PM +0200, Polytropon wrote: On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 13:06:01 -0700, Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm still open to the bg color. The display white is not true, paper-white. Anyway, pretty sure the ink+paper publishers have their own [[ BETTER ]] ideas. I'm looking for what looks good on the web. You can't look at the Web, you're looking at a monitor or at a sheet of paper. :-) The same color may look different on * a CRT type monitor * a LCD type monitor * a hardcopy done by a color laser printer * a hardcopy done by a color ink pee printer * ... So you're saying that the white on my [monster] CRT is not the same as on a future LCD Display? rats:) --I can't see much difference in my new laserjet from my HP500 DeskJet, but then it wasn't a main concern ... . How do you have your digital camera set to color correct for white? Your eyes automatically compensate. Look at a photo taken in tungsten light, without automatic white balance turned on and then, view it or print it in raw mode so that you see the real world and then, compare it with what you saw. Most monitors have a color temperature setting, which determines how the displayed colors are shifted. IIRC, our eyes peak at 5500 (a yellow green??), which is the color temperature of the sun. This is due to the nature that these devices use different color spaces (RGB, composed additively, CMY, composed negatively), and most of them even aren't calibrated. GRB and CMY are parts of the CIE specified space (see CIE diagram), but they don't have all the colors in common. There are colors you can show on a CRT, but you cannot print them 1:1. I took all 5 quarters of physics, like most of us, but never got far into optics. And certainly, nothing like *this*. the quality of my writing is much more important that the colors of typeface or background. But this is an interesting side-bar. But the ability of people to read it is an important consideration. I hate those web pages with dark backgrounds that I have to use the mouse to select the text so that I can read it. I am a speed reader and basically see words as images. Dark backgrounds strain my eyes and I can't read as fast as I can with dark text on light backgrounds. I get bored really fast when I start reading at 150-200 wpm instead of my normal 700-1200 wpm. Anyway, the best reading contrast - black on white - looks boring on the web, and it stresses your eyes (too much light reflected / emitted). Furthermore, if you select a dark color for the background, LCD type monitors (that have a minimal light emission even if the color is pure black) may look too light, while a CRT type monitor may display the color as dark as you intended (because when it's black, the CRT does not emit any light, unless, of course, the base brightness is needlessly adjusted above the zero point). So much for physics, kids. :-) Really! So far, in my tests [staring at a CRT], I find an off-white reads most easily against a very dark blue. 33; or whatever 66 is. Still experimenting. IIRC, dyslexics have a much harder time reading when the background is dark. Kent ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: which gray is best for print?
How do you have your digital camera set to color correct for white? Your eyes the simplest method to check if your monitor reproduces colors exactly is to display some photo from digital camera and make photo of the screen, then cut out the image part from photo and display near the first. should look the same. for my CRT monitor, with setting gamma correction right i'm able to do it. with LCD - i don't ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: which gray is best for print?
On Sat, Sep 06, 2008 at 03:17:25PM +0200, Zbigniew Szalbot wrote: Hi there, To prevent boredom, two shades of deep gray or blue-gray would be besy. I may be wrong, but no one ever read a long block of text because of the color of the font. A better way to prevent boredom is to write interesting text! And do not make the mistake of putting your long block of interesting text on the web! Very few people (if any) will be reading it. You can read a book like that but not a web content. Break down your text into manageble chunks (two, three paragrahs at most) and link them appropriately. But do also provide a 1-page version with a sensible print medium CSS (or even a nicely formatted PDF), so that users can create a hard copy version with a minimun of fuss and clicks. -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: which gray is best for print?
On Sat, Sep 06, 2008 at 10:38:45AM -0700, Kent wrote: But the ability of people to read it is an important consideration. I hate those web pages with dark backgrounds that I have to use the mouse to select the text so that I can read it. I am a speed reader and basically see words as images. Dark backgrounds strain my eyes and I can't read as fast as I can with dark text on light backgrounds. I get bored really fast when I start reading at 150-200 wpm instead of my normal 700-1200 wpm. (...) IIRC, dyslexics have a much harder time reading when the background is dark. Kent That's really interesting! ... But everyone's different: Personally, I really dislike pure white backgrounds on light-emitting surfaces. When reading from a physical book, white is the best background, but when reading it from a CRT or LCD, it hurts my eyes very fast up to a point where I start to get a headache and have to stop after 10 to 20 minutes. That's why I usually use a user-specific CSS to override that pure-white background and change it to light grey. I even wrote a little transparent web proxy many years ago, that would rewrite HTML back in the days when CSS was not yet as popular, just to grey-ish this hurting white background. Of course, the ideal solution would be to offer visitors switchable or even freely-configurable color themes to satisfy everyone's tastes and preferences. But the issue is then still that of the default theme would usually still be (sadly IMHO, luckily in most other peoples' mind) pure white background... so it's still 'user-specific CSS' for new websites. -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: which gray is best for print?
{ After spending hours looking for a used ThinkPad}
On Sat, Sep 06, 2008 at 01:53:46PM +0200, Polytropon wrote:
On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 20:36:45 -0700, Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So you're saying that the white on my [monster] CRT is not the
same as on a future LCD Display? rats:)
Exactly. And compare the black, too, best way to differentiate
with CRT and LCD side by side with a fullscreen color black.
Isn't it dark-gray, tho? or as black as a dark tube gets,
rather than true-black?
--I can't see much
difference in my new laserjet from my HP500 DeskJet, but then it
wasn't a main concern ... .
Human perception is another thing. Just because *I* can't notice
something, it doesn't imply that (1) others can't and (2) it isn't
there. In order to make a human person *feel* the change of a
sensory input is linear (e. g. the light intensity increases), you
need to increase the actual input in a logarithmic way.
http://www.neuro.uu.se/fysiologi/gu/nbb/lectures/WebFech.html
tHis I'll check out; you've piqued my curiousity, even tho this
gets further from whatever I was talking about:-) ...Not only
are the psychological varioations, but neurophysiological ones as
well. And gender diffs too. My better two-thirds says that I
may as well be color-blind, and she's probably right. What I
will avoid is having some *Ugly* combos like black on dark blue.
No, I am Not kidding. Or yellow typeface on White bg. It's like
the shriek/skreek of chalk against a blackboard. Makes my skin crawl.
I took all 5 quarters of physics, like most of us, but never got
far into optics.
Physics comes in 5 quarters? 5 * 0.25 = 1.25... :-)
And certainly, nothing like *this*.
I learned about this when I studied psychology and computational
visualistics, but the RGB vs. CMY stuff (additive and subtractive
color combination) was part of the basal school education in the
GDR.
You got me there, man. I took plenty of psych courses over the
years, but nothing involving computation. Congrats.
the
quality of my writing is much more important that the colors of
typeface or background.
I really applaud this attitude. You won't find them very often
across the web, sadly, because style is more important than content.
I've seen things, man, ...
Hm. About the only time form/style can top function/contact,
IMHO, is when you're being forced to watch a very nicely
stylized ad. {On the web.} I've seen a couple. O/wise, the way
a piece works wins. I listened to an interview on NPR several
months ago who said that, I think of people who don't watch web
advertisement as thieves, or sometime similar. Isn't a primary
function of the web to allow *us* to control what we see?
But this is an interesting side-bar.
It's a very important topic to know about when you're doing DTP
stuff. Exact color calibration is very important in this field.
So you can understand why there's still a niche market for quality
CRT monitors and quality printing devices. Of course, color
temperatures and other settings like contrast and brightness
are to be considered, too.
Sure, but I'll happy leave this niche to people more qualified.
I'm below the bottom/barrel here.
Really! So far, in my tests [staring at a CRT], I find an
off-white reads most easily against a very dark blue. 33;
or whatever 66 is. Still experimenting.
it's very individual how colors are percepted. If someone with
deuteranopia looks at certain color combinations where others
may say: Looks good!, they could say: I don't see text there.
At least for printed material, black on white is good, and it
even can be used for projection media (beamer).
i May be off on this one, but I'm seeing more dark grays on my
ink+paper journals. Hard to tell since with the years sight
loses sharpness as our lenses become sclerotic and full of gunk.
Which all goes back to the original point:: what's the best
--oh, no-- what *are* the best combinations of off-white and
darkgray, bluegray, or almost-black-bluegray?
When I was at university, some guys put up a presentation with
black text on dark bluie background, 10pt serife font. Bah!
Unreadable in the last row.
didn't i mumble something like this above? 25 years ago my eyes
were much better, but not That much. i hope someone complained
... seriously.
--
Polytropon
From Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
--
Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix
http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org
Re: which gray is best for print?
On Sun, Sep 07, 2008 at 01:33:55AM +0200, cpghost wrote: On Sat, Sep 06, 2008 at 10:38:45AM -0700, Kent wrote: (...) IIRC, dyslexics have a much harder time reading when the background is dark. Kent That's really interesting! ... But everyone's different: Personally, I really dislike pure white backgrounds on light-emitting surfaces. When reading from a physical book, white is the best background, but when reading it from a CRT or LCD, it hurts my eyes very fast up to a point where I start to get a headache and have to stop after 10 to 20 minutes. That's why I usually use a user-specific CSS to override that pure-white background and change it to light grey. I even wrote a little transparent web proxy many years ago, that would rewrite HTML back in the days when CSS was not yet as popular, just to grey-ish this hurting white background. Man, this is getting interestinger and interestinger. wHen i've found something that looks enhoyable but hurts my eyes -- and Yes! i detest reading online for very long [esp'ly with any (censored) ads flashing], I'll save the file and change the colors. if it's some script that has no #xx i'll rty to save via lynx, then use my probgram to turn back into HTML, and then edit the bg/fg to suit me. ---i thought i was the only one whose eyes hurts hurt. Hmph. Of course, the ideal solution would be to offer visitors switchable or even freely-configurable color themes to satisfy everyone's tastes and preferences. But the issue is then still that of the default theme would usually still be (sadly IMHO, luckily in most other peoples' mind) pure white background... so it's still 'user-specific CSS' for new websites. This is something i've been considering for a couple years. The ink+paper version is set in concrete, but the web version can be PHp-tweaked. Or, more likely, let reader's have their choice of some N versions. The whole of this jottings book/chapbook is 90k bytes, so it's not like i'll be spending that much disk space. Also, what i'm working on now is Version 2.0.x, smmaler still thanks for friends' help. As tho it weren't evident, i can run on a bit:) -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: which gray is best for print?
On Wed, Sep 03, 2008 at 04:14:42PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote:
This is for any webmaster types: which color gray (in hex, #xx)
is best for a site that has probably very long articles? I've googled
around and found various grays such as #696969 or #708090, but I
haven't found anything that really fits what I want. URL, anybody?
Or if there is a color-chooser in ports, that too, altho I haven't found
anything in ports/x11 or ports/www.
To prevent boredom, two shades of deep gray or blue-gray would be besy.
tia,
gary
I can't tell you which grey is most suitable but I can tell you how I
go about choosing a colour.
Install: x11/rgb
Then:
$ showrgb | less
will give you the names of the 256 websafe colours and their rgb
values.
I usually check out the colours by:
$ xterm -bg DarkSalmon
etc.
Alternatively, you can use css and set an html pages bg properties:
style type=text/css
body{
background-color: rgb(233,150,122);
}
/style
view it in your browser.
--
Frank
Contact info: http://www.shute.org.uk/misc/contact.html
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Re: which gray is best for print?
On Fri, Sep 05, 2008 at 06:08:04PM +0100, Frank Shute wrote:
On Wed, Sep 03, 2008 at 04:14:42PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote:
This is for any webmaster types: which color gray (in hex, #xx)
is best for a site that has probably very long articles? I've googled
around and found various grays such as #696969 or #708090, but I
haven't found anything that really fits what I want. URL, anybody?
Or if there is a color-chooser in ports, that too, altho I haven't found
anything in ports/x11 or ports/www.
To prevent boredom, two shades of deep gray or blue-gray would be besy.
tia,
gary
I can't tell you which grey is most suitable but I can tell you how I
go about choosing a colour.
Install: x11/rgb
Then:
$ showrgb | less
will give you the names of the 256 websafe colours and their rgb
values.
I usually check out the colours by:
$ xterm -bg DarkSalmon
etc.
Alternatively, you can use css and set an html pages bg properties:
style type=text/css
body{
background-color: rgb(233,150,122);
}
/style
view it in your browser.
--
Frank
Thanks for this. I'll check it out when I'm less crushed! Just
one note to the list (in case anybody else it looking for
attractive/fitting #xx codes): dark, black-ish blue #33
is very good and pleasant on the eyes; #66 even more so.
I'm still open to the bg color. The display white is not true,
paper-white. Anyway, pretty sure the ink+paper publishers have
their own [[ BETTER ]] ideas. I'm looking for what looks good on
the web.
gary
Contact info: http://www.shute.org.uk/misc/contact.html
--
Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix
http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org
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Re: which gray is best for print?
On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 13:06:01 -0700, Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm still open to the bg color. The display white is not true, paper-white. Anyway, pretty sure the ink+paper publishers have their own [[ BETTER ]] ideas. I'm looking for what looks good on the web. You can't look at the Web, you're looking at a monitor or at a sheet of paper. :-) The same color may look different on * a CRT type monitor * a LCD type monitor * a hardcopy done by a color laser printer * a hardcopy done by a color ink pee printer * ... This is due to the nature that these devices use different color spaces (RGB, composed additively, CMY, composed negatively), and most of them even aren't calibrated. GRB and CMY are parts of the CIE specified space (see CIE diagram), but they don't have all the colors in common. There are colors you can show on a CRT, but you cannot print them 1:1. Anyway, the best reading contrast - black on white - looks boring on the web, and it stresses your eyes (too much light reflected / emitted). Furthermore, if you select a dark color for the background, LCD type monitors (that have a minimal light emission even if the color is pure black) may look too light, while a CRT type monitor may display the color as dark as you intended (because when it's black, the CRT does not emit any light, unless, of course, the base brightness is needlessly adjusted above the zero point). So much for physics, kids. :-) -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: which gray is best for print?
On Fri, Sep 05, 2008 at 10:38:59PM +0200, Polytropon wrote: On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 13:06:01 -0700, Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm still open to the bg color. The display white is not true, paper-white. Anyway, pretty sure the ink+paper publishers have their own [[ BETTER ]] ideas. I'm looking for what looks good on the web. You can't look at the Web, you're looking at a monitor or at a sheet of paper. :-) The same color may look different on * a CRT type monitor * a LCD type monitor * a hardcopy done by a color laser printer * a hardcopy done by a color ink pee printer * ... So you're saying that the white on my [monster] CRT is not the same as on a future LCD Display? rats:) --I can't see much difference in my new laserjet from my HP500 DeskJet, but then it wasn't a main concern ... . This is due to the nature that these devices use different color spaces (RGB, composed additively, CMY, composed negatively), and most of them even aren't calibrated. GRB and CMY are parts of the CIE specified space (see CIE diagram), but they don't have all the colors in common. There are colors you can show on a CRT, but you cannot print them 1:1. I took all 5 quarters of physics, like most of us, but never got far into optics. And certainly, nothing like *this*. the quality of my writing is much more important that the colors of typeface or background. But this is an interesting side-bar. Anyway, the best reading contrast - black on white - looks boring on the web, and it stresses your eyes (too much light reflected / emitted). Furthermore, if you select a dark color for the background, LCD type monitors (that have a minimal light emission even if the color is pure black) may look too light, while a CRT type monitor may display the color as dark as you intended (because when it's black, the CRT does not emit any light, unless, of course, the base brightness is needlessly adjusted above the zero point). So much for physics, kids. :-) Really! So far, in my tests [staring at a CRT], I find an off-white reads most easily against a very dark blue. 33; or whatever 66 is. Still experimenting. -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... -- Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: which gray is best for print?
On Behalf Of Gary Kline On Wed September 3 2008 16:26:07 Polytropon wrote: On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 16:14:42 -0700, Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or if there is a color-chooser in ports, that too, altho I haven't found anything in ports/x11 or ports/www. You may check /usr/ports/x11/xcolorsel, allthough I prefer the color choosing dialog of Gimp which provides a hex readout of the selected color, as well as the RGB or CMY values (last one interesting if you want to print something). Yeah, you were right about the xcolorsel being less useful than the GIMP. I typed in 66 and found others that were as nice. Then found a december.com site with more info. 33 is a named and safe color or ink. Still more to back and look at, read up on. W3Schools has some color charts at http://www.w3schools.com/default.asp that could be useful. They built a chart that shows which colors most browsers can understand. They also have some grey scale charts at the end of their advanced HTML tutorial. Bob McConnell ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: which gray is best for print?
On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 16:14:42 -0700, Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or if there is a color-chooser in ports, that too, altho I haven't found anything in ports/x11 or ports/www. You may check /usr/ports/x11/xcolorsel, allthough I prefer the color choosing dialog of Gimp which provides a hex readout of the selected color, as well as the RGB or CMY values (last one interesting if you want to print something). -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: which gray is best for print?
On Wed September 3 2008 16:26:07 Polytropon wrote: On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 16:14:42 -0700, Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or if there is a color-chooser in ports, that too, altho I haven't found anything in ports/x11 or ports/www. You may check /usr/ports/x11/xcolorsel, allthough I prefer the color choosing dialog of Gimp which provides a hex readout of the selected color, as well as the RGB or CMY values (last one interesting if you want to print something). Yeah, you were right about the xcolorsel being less useful than the GIMP. I typed in 66 and found others that were as nice. Then found a december.com site with more info. 33 is a named and safe color or ink. Still more to back and look at, read up on. dank sehr viel! [i hope:)] -- Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.thought.org Public Service Unix http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
