Re: Disk vs Disc (was: WD External Disc Drive)
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 05:29 am, Chris Rees wrote: I have always considered hard disk, floppy diskette, and compact disc (and digital versatile disc) to be the terminology; but then again the official British spelling is disc, whereas AFAICR the US spelling is disk. What organisation defines official British Spelling. I beleive there is no official in this context but perhaps the closest is the Oxford Disctionary. My Concise Oxford Dictionary gives both spellings as alternatives but states that disk is the better. My Webster's (American) Dictionary makes no distinction. Chris Malcolm ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: WD External Disc Drive
... If you are refering to a kind of hard disk, use disk with k. Think like diskette. If you are refering to optical media, use disc with c. Think like CD = compact disc. An arbitrary convention adopted by you and a few other people does not invalidate the dictionary spellings and usage. Am I the only one who is finding the longevity of this bikeshed a bit disk-gusting? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Disk vs Disc (was: WD External Disc Drive)
2009/10/26 Matthew Seaman m.sea...@infracaninophile.co.uk: Chris Rees wrote: I have always considered hard disk, floppy diskette, and compact disc (and digital versatile disc) to be the terminology; but then again the official British spelling is disc, whereas AFAICR the US spelling is disk. The official British spelling is whichever one of disc or disk takes your fancy at the time. Very few people actually care one way or the other. On 26 Oct 2009 20:41, Matthew Seaman m.sea...@infracaninophile.co.uk wrote: Chris Rees wrote: I have always considered hard disk, floppy diskette, and compact disc (and digital versatile disc) to be the terminology; but then again the official British spelling is disc, whereas AFAICR the US spelling is disk. The official British spelling is whichever one of disc or disk takes your fancy at the time. Very few people actually care one way or the other. I was just reading what I saw in Wiktionary in the entry for disc: disk mainly US, or for magnetic media So disk refers to hard drive and floppy (magnetic), but vinyl (grooves) and CDs / DVDs (optical) are discs. From the entry for Disk: In International English, disk is the correct spelling for magnetic disks. If the medium is optical, the variant disc is usually preferred, although computing is a peculiar field for the term. For instance hard disk and other disk drives are always thusly spelled, yet so are terms like compact discs. Thus, if referring to a physical drive or older media (3 or 5.25 diskettes) the k is used, but c is used for newer (optical based) media. Depends how authoritative you consider wiktionary, really. Chris -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in a mailing list? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: WD External Disc Drive
On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 12:55:51AM -0700, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: ... If you are refering to a kind of hard disk, use disk with k. Think like diskette. If you are refering to optical media, use disc with c. Think like CD = compact disc. An arbitrary convention adopted by you and a few other people does not invalidate the dictionary spellings and usage. Am I the only one who is finding the longevity of this bikeshed a bit disk-gusting? Ah, in the throes of a bad economy, so we can't afford an over-priced movie or exhorbitant concert tickets, we need some sort of entertainment. Bikesheds are cheap. jerry ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: WD External Disc Drive
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:27:23 +1030, Malcolm Kay malcolm@internode.on.net wrote: An arbitrary convention adopted by you and a few other people does not invalidate the dictionary spellings and usage. As I mentioned before, the (hard) disk vs. (optical) disc differentiation seems to be quite german-specific, allthough older IBM material of the mainframe era refers to disks when talking about DASD, and disk packs in general. The topic External Disc Drive would, according to what I have learned, usually refer to an external CD or DVD drive, while an external disk drive, or more precise an external hard disk drive would describe a hard disk. My Australian (Macquarie) dictionary gives the spelling in all cases as disc but recognises disk as a chiefly US variant. My Conscise Oxford (English) dictionary simply gives the two spellings as alternatives but states that disk is the better. My Webster's (American) gives the two forms as alternatives without suggesting any preference. Of course different editions of the dictionaries may give slightly different slants but are most unlikely to actually contradict these possibly earlier views. That's interesting to know. I like to learn new things from this list, even when it's about correct spelling. I find your distinctions arbitrary and quite inappropriate; again not meaning to sound impolite. I have to apologize that I grew up in my IT career with exactly the interpretation I mentioned. Furthermore, it seems to be very common in Germany, as well as the usage of disk for any kind of hard disk, as illustrated by the FreeBSD handbook. So, each to his/her own usage but please do not be critical of those of us not conforming to your arbirary conventions. Malcolm, I will keep this in mind. As soon as someone asks questions about /etc folders and IDE controllers, I will be back. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: WD External Disc Drive
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:21:37 +1030, Malcolm Kay malcolm@internode.on.net wrote: Further, If we look at some acronyms associated with optical media we have: CD - Compact Disc DVD - Digital Video Disc but: UDF - Universal Disk Format (The file system frequently used on CDs and DVDs) So there is no consistency here! Again, you're correct, there seems to be some preferred, but not generally standardized use of disk and disc. Maybe we need fdisc someday. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: WD External Disc Drive
At Mon, 26 Oct 2009 14:32:02 +1100, Rob Hurle wrote: Thank you to everyone who answered: kldload fusefs What does ls -la /dev/da* show you. So the device is there, but ntfs-3g fails to see it. Probably kldload fusefs isn't loaded (until Saturday) Yes, fuse.ko had to me copied from /usr/local/modules to /boot/kernel and then kloaded. Everything is fine now. Thanks again. No. You only have to add fusefs_enable=YES to your /etc/rc.conf and run '/usr/local/etc/rc.d/fusefs start' or reboot. - Herbert ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: WD External Disc Drive
Hi Rob, just a little terminology note (from me, Mister Use-the-correct-words): If you are refering to a kind of hard disk, use disk with k. Think like diskette. If you are refering to optical media, use disc with c. Think like CD = compact disc. Disk: disk pack, hard disk, disk drive Disc: optical disc, magneto-optical disc, disc drive In your special case, you can even say that your external hard disk shows up as a disc in Windows. It's correct. I know it may sound impolite (but it is not meant to be), but using the correct terminology is very important if you want to be understood correctly. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: WD External Disc Drive
On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 12:33:16 +1100, Rob Hurle rob1...@gmail.com wrote: I need to transfer between FreeBSD and Windows, both ways :-( Could you imagine to use FAT instead of NTFS, or do you intendedly require features that are specific to NTFS? I found that FAT - in FreeBSD: msdosfs - is sufficient for transfer tasks. It doesn't require fuse, you have r/w by kernel means (refer to man mount_msdosfs). Of course, this would require new initialising of the disk. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: WD External Disc Drive
Hi Polytropon, just a little terminology note (from me, Mister Use-the-correct-words): If you are refering to a kind of hard disk, use disk with k. Think like diskette. If you are refering to optical media, use disc with c. Think like CD = compact disc. Thanks for your comment. disk began life as the American spelling (probably older English, copied from Greek) and disc was the English (UK, Australia, probably South Africa and other places). Here, in Australia, I am used to disc, but I take your point and agree that the two spellings most likely have their particular usages. In the fullness of time I suspect that the scheme you outline will become widely accepted. There's other instances of particular preferences in spelling in Australian English vis a vis American - for example, recognize versus recognise. As others have pointed out, the English language is a bit of a mongrel :-) Thanks for your comments too, about use of the FAT32 file system. I had thought about that, but the NTFS seemed to be a bit more universal - I'm not sure that FAT file systems are recognised by default on Macs (for example). Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Happy FreeBSD user since 2.2. Cheers, Rob Hurle -- - Rob Hurle ANU, College of Asia and the Pacific School of Culture, History and Language e-mail: rob1...@gmail.com Telephone (ANU): +61 2 6125 3169 Mobile (in VN): +84 948 243 538 (Currently in Australia) Mobile (in OZ): +61 417 293 603 (Currently in Australia) - ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: WD External Disc Drive
Polytropon wrote: Hi Rob, just a little terminology note (from me, Mister Use-the-correct-words): If you are refering to a kind of hard disk, use disk with k. Think like diskette. If you are refering to optical media, use disc with c. Think like CD = compact disc. Disk: disk pack, hard disk, disk drive Disc: optical disc, magneto-optical disc, disc drive Um, I don't want to get into spelling flames but from where I'm sitting (the UK) disk is the American English spelling and disc is the British English spelling of the same word which means in general a flat thin round thing and in computing a (usually) spinning flat thin round thing used for non-volatile storage. The distinction you make is one I've not come across before, and I've worked with computers for nearly 40 years. I think it's better to simply qualify dis[ck] with an adjective to disambiguate as necessary and accept that the US had a spelling reform that the UK didn't so both forms are valid and interchangeable. See also: program v. programme, colour v. color, etc. :-) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: WD External Disc Drive
Rob Hurle wrote: Thanks for your comments too, about use of the FAT32 file system. I had thought about that, but the NTFS seemed to be a bit more universal - I'm not sure that FAT file systems are recognised by default on Macs (for example). FAT (and almost to the same extent, FAT32) are widely recognizable: FreeBSD, Windows, Linux, OS X. The most important limitation though is maximum file size (=4GB). Depending on your usage, FAT32 may or may not be appropriate because of this. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: WD External Disc Drive
On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 22:37:50 +1100, Rob Hurle rob1...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for your comment. disk began life as the American spelling (probably older English, copied from Greek) and disc was the English (UK, Australia, probably South Africa and other places). Here, in Australia, I am used to disc, but I take your point and agree that the two spellings most likely have their particular usages. In the fullness of time I suspect that the scheme you outline will become widely accepted. There's other instances of particular preferences in spelling in Australian English vis a vis American - for example, recognize versus recognise. As others have pointed out, the English language is a bit of a mongrel :-) Wow, that's interesting to know. From my IT career, I always read disks, not discs (in its meaning as optical discs when they started to exist in the 80s). The differentiation disk vs. disc started at this time and is very common today to distinguish optical media from magnetic media. Magneto-optical media is called MO disc though. :-) Thanks for your comments too, about use of the FAT32 file system. I had thought about that, but the NTFS seemed to be a bit more universal - I'm not sure that FAT file systems are recognised by default on Macs (for example). I always thought FAT is one of the most universal file systems (at least when Windows is involved); if it's not, I do consider tar the most universal file system (allthough it is no file system in particular). It works on all UNIX flavours I encountered, as well as on Mac OS. The only thing you need is a tar program that reads from or writes to the preferred media. Of course, Windows lacks such a program. Example. On Linux # tar cvf /dev/fd0.h1440 sourcefile(s) On Sun Solaris: # tar xvf /dev/rfd0 It works on IRIX, HP-UX and other UNIXes, too, and it works with every media (floppy, CD, DVD, USB stick, external hard disk, MO disc etc.). The only thing you have to grant access to is the device (usually via its device file). As for your intended use, well, try FAT. Sadly, my iBook doesn't work yet, so I can't check. In MICROS~1 land, FAT is recognized among all the Windows, and r/w support is fine on FreeBSD. Mac OS X should be able to use it, too. Rob Hurle ANU, College of Asia and the Pacific School of Culture, History and Language That explains everything. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: WD External Disc Drive
On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 12:07:45 +, Arthur Chance free...@qeng-ho.org wrote: The distinction you make is one I've not come across before, and I've worked with computers for nearly 40 years. This specific differentiation is common at least in Germany. We handle foreign words quite differently, for example we call a mobile phone a Handy. :-) The FreeBSD handbook is a good example. http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/handbook/install-start.html Here, disk seems to refer to hard disks, while disc refers to exchangable media. Both words can be found in the document. I think it's better to simply qualify dis[ck] with an adjective to disambiguate as necessary and accept that the US had a spelling reform that the UK didn't so both forms are valid and interchangeable. In most cases, it is done that way, e. g. floppy disk or hard disk. See also: program v. programme, colour v. color, etc. :-) I see that you are working in a computor centre. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Disk vs Disc (was: WD External Disc Drive)
On 10/26/09, Polytropon free...@edvax.de wrote: On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 12:07:45 +, Arthur Chance free...@qeng-ho.org wrote: The distinction you make is one I've not come across before, and I've worked with computers for nearly 40 years. Same here. I've always been told they were completely interchangeable. I do recall that when floppy drives appeared for personal computers in the late '70s and early '80s, there was some argument about the correct spelling. The claim was that disc was correct, and that some ignorant hobbyist at a new computer company had misspelled it as disk and it stuck. But IBM used the disk spelling long before that, so I don't think that was really what happened. Looking in the OED, I find that disk was the original spelling, and in the late 1800s disc became popular, then around 1950 disk started regaining popularity, largely in the computer industry. - Bob -- -- Bob Johnson fbsdli...@gmail.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Disk vs Disc (was: WD External Disc Drive)
2009/10/26 Bob Johnson fbsdli...@gmail.com: On 10/26/09, Polytropon free...@edvax.de wrote: On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 12:07:45 +, Arthur Chance free...@qeng-ho.org wrote: The distinction you make is one I've not come across before, and I've worked with computers for nearly 40 years. Same here. I've always been told they were completely interchangeable. I do recall that when floppy drives appeared for personal computers in the late '70s and early '80s, there was some argument about the correct spelling. The claim was that disc was correct, and that some ignorant hobbyist at a new computer company had misspelled it as disk and it stuck. But IBM used the disk spelling long before that, so I don't think that was really what happened. Looking in the OED, I find that disk was the original spelling, and in the late 1800s disc became popular, then around 1950 disk started regaining popularity, largely in the computer industry. - Bob -- -- Bob Johnson fbsdli...@gmail.com I have always considered hard disk, floppy diskette, and compact disc (and digital versatile disc) to be the terminology; but then again the official British spelling is disc, whereas AFAICR the US spelling is disk. Chris -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in a mailing list? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Disk vs Disc (was: WD External Disc Drive)
Chris Rees wrote: I have always considered hard disk, floppy diskette, and compact disc (and digital versatile disc) to be the terminology; but then again the official British spelling is disc, whereas AFAICR the US spelling is disk. The official British spelling is whichever one of disc or disk takes your fancy at the time. Very few people actually care one way or the other. Cheers Matthew -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard Flat 3 PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate Kent, CT11 9PW signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: WD External Disc Drive
On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 08:39 pm, Polytropon wrote: Hi Rob, just a little terminology note (from me, Mister Use-the-correct-words): If you are refering to a kind of hard disk, use disk with k. Think like diskette. If you are refering to optical media, use disc with c. Think like CD = compact disc. An arbitrary convention adopted by you and a few other people does not invalidate the dictionary spellings and usage. My Australian (Macquarie) dictionary gives the spelling in all cases as disc but recognises disk as a chiefly US variant. My Conscise Oxford (English) dictionary simply gives the two spellings as alternatives but states that disk is the better. My Webster's (American) gives the two forms as alternatives without suggesting any preference. Of course different editions of the dictionaries may give slightly different slants but are most unlikely to actually contradict these possibly earlier views. Disk: disk pack, hard disk, disk drive Disc: optical disc, magneto-optical disc, disc drive In your special case, you can even say that your external hard disk shows up as a disc in Windows. It's correct. I know it may sound impolite (but it is not meant to be), but using the correct terminology is very important if you want to be understood correctly. I find your distinctions arbitrary and quite inappropriate; again not meaning to sound impolite. So, each to his/her own usage but please do not be critical of those of us not conforming to your arbirary conventions. Malcolm ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: WD External Disc Drive
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 03:27 pm, Malcolm Kay wrote: On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 08:39 pm, Polytropon wrote: Hi Rob, just a little terminology note (from me, Mister Use-the-correct-words): If you are refering to a kind of hard disk, use disk with k. Think like diskette. If you are refering to optical media, use disc with c. Think like CD = compact disc. An arbitrary convention adopted by you and a few other people does not invalidate the dictionary spellings and usage. My Australian (Macquarie) dictionary gives the spelling in all cases as disc but recognises disk as a chiefly US variant. My Conscise Oxford (English) dictionary simply gives the two spellings as alternatives but states that disk is the better. My Webster's (American) gives the two forms as alternatives without suggesting any preference. Of course different editions of the dictionaries may give slightly different slants but are most unlikely to actually contradict these possibly earlier views. Disk: disk pack, hard disk, disk drive Disc: optical disc, magneto-optical disc, disc drive In your special case, you can even say that your external hard disk shows up as a disc in Windows. It's correct. I know it may sound impolite (but it is not meant to be), but using the correct terminology is very important if you want to be understood correctly. I find your distinctions arbitrary and quite inappropriate; again not meaning to sound impolite. So, each to his/her own usage but please do not be critical of those of us not conforming to your arbirary conventions. Further, If we look at some acronyms associated with optical media we have: CD - Compact Disc DVD - Digital Video Disc but: UDF - Universal Disk Format (The file system frequently used on CDs and DVDs) So there is no consistency here! Malcolm ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
WD External Disc Drive
Dear All, This may sound like a Windows problem, but please read on. I made a mistake and bought a WD My Passport external 350GB disc drive for use on several Windows machines, on some of which I don't have admin access, and a couple of FreeBSD systems. On first use on Windows the disc shows up only as a virtual CD (I assume this is the firmware), unlock.exe has to be run and the software installed (admin privileges necessary). Once it's unlocked and the software installed, the big disc appears, the software can be uninstalled, and the big disc reformatted as NTFS. From then on, the virtual CD can be ignored and the big disc used on any Windows system. Now to FreeBSD. The newly formatted (as NTFS) disc appears as two devices - /dev/cd0 (never seen this before) and /dev/da0s1 (the normal USB disc drive device). They can be mounted as follows: freebsd [10:45] ~#mount_udf /dev/cd0 /mnt freebsd [10:45] ~#mount /usb0 (/etc/fstab describes the NTFS file system type, and the virtual CD is a UDF file system). We now have: freebsd [10:46] ~#df Filesystem 1K-blocksUsed Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/cd0582962582962 0 100%/mnt /dev/da0s1 311877845 2332729 309545116 1%/usb0 If we look at each device, the virtual CD has the WD software, as expected: freebsd [10:45] ~#ll /mnt total 6300 drwxr-xr-x 3 501 staff 2048 12 Sep 05:32 Extras -rwxrwxrwx 1 501 staff 3680544 5 Sep 08:20 Unlock.exe drwxrwxrwx 5 501 staff2048 5 Sep 08:30 User Manuals drwxr-xr-x3 501 staff2048 12 Sep 05:28 WD SmartWare -rwxrwxrwx 1 501 staff 2770208 5 Sep 08:20 WD SmartWare.exe -rwxrwxrwx 1 501 staff 695 19 Jun03:06 What is this.html -rwxrwxrwx 1 501 staff 88 19 Jun07:12 autorun.inf No problem. Now for the FreeBSD problem. If we look at what's on the big disc (newly formatted as NTFS on a Windows system): freebsd [10:45] ~#ll /usb0 total 75200 -rwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel 2560 23 Apr 2009 $AttrDef -rwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel 0 25 Oct 14:37 $BadClus -rwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel 9746184 23 Apr 2009 $Bitmap -rwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel 8192 25 Oct 14:37 $Boot drwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel0 25 Oct 14:37 $Extend -rwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel 67108864 25 Oct 14:37 $LogFile -rwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel 4096 25 Oct 14:37 $MFTMirr -rwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel 0 23 Apr 2009 $Secure -rwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel 131072 23 Apr 2009 $UpCase -rwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel 0 25 Oct 14:37 $Volume drwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel0 25 Oct 15:54 MyStuff drwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel0 25 Oct 16:23 RECYCLER drwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel0 25 Oct 14:37 System Volume Information The only thing that shows up in Windows is the MyStuff directory, which I put there. I can copy anything from MyStuff to anywhere else on the FreeBSD system, no worries. But if I attempt to copy a new file into the MyStuff directory, I get the following: freebsd [10:46] ~#cp ~/tmp/test /usb0/MyStuff cp: /usb0/MyStuff/test: No such file or directory freebsd [11:08] ~# What on earth is going on? Why do I get the message that test does not exist, on the directory that I'm copying to? I can copy nothing to this big disc from FreeBSD, but can copy from it OK. Why are those other files there? Are they part of the standard Windows NTFS formatting? Can I use newfs(8) to make an NTFS file system on the big disc? Any pointers to a solution would be most welcome. I'm also trying to ask similar questions on the WD lists. Thanks for any help. Cheers, Rob Hurle -- - Rob Hurle ANU, College of Asia and the Pacific School of Culture, History and Language e-mail: rob1...@gmail.com Telephone (ANU): +61 2 6125 3169 Mobile (in VN): +84 948 243 538 (Currently in Australia) Mobile (in OZ): +61 417 293 603 (Currently in Australia) - ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: WD External Disc Drive
Rob Hurle wrote: Dear All, This may sound like a Windows problem, but please read on. I made a mistake and bought a WD My Passport external 350GB disc drive for use on several Windows machines, on some of which I don't have admin access, and a couple of FreeBSD systems. On first use on Windows the disc shows up only as a virtual CD (I assume this is the firmware), unlock.exe has to be run and the software installed (admin privileges necessary). Once it's unlocked and the software installed, the big disc appears, the software can be uninstalled, and the big disc reformatted as NTFS. From then on, the virtual CD can be ignored and the big disc used on any Windows system. Now to FreeBSD. The newly formatted (as NTFS) disc appears as two devices - /dev/cd0 (never seen this before) This is how a USB cdrom appears to FreeBSD - as a SCSI device. No problem there. and /dev/da0s1 (the normal USB disc drive device). They can be mounted as follows: freebsd [10:45] ~#mount_udf /dev/cd0 /mnt freebsd [10:45] ~#mount /usb0 (/etc/fstab describes the NTFS file system type, and the virtual CD is a UDF file system). We now have: freebsd [10:46] ~#df Filesystem 1K-blocksUsed Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/cd0582962582962 0 100%/mnt /dev/da0s1 311877845 2332729 309545116 1%/usb0 If we look at each device, the virtual CD has the WD software, as expected: freebsd [10:45] ~#ll /mnt total 6300 drwxr-xr-x 3 501 staff 2048 12 Sep 05:32 Extras -rwxrwxrwx 1 501 staff 3680544 5 Sep 08:20 Unlock.exe drwxrwxrwx 5 501 staff2048 5 Sep 08:30 User Manuals drwxr-xr-x3 501 staff2048 12 Sep 05:28 WD SmartWare -rwxrwxrwx 1 501 staff 2770208 5 Sep 08:20 WD SmartWare.exe -rwxrwxrwx 1 501 staff 695 19 Jun03:06 What is this.html -rwxrwxrwx 1 501 staff 88 19 Jun07:12 autorun.inf No problem. Now for the FreeBSD problem. If we look at what's on the big disc (newly formatted as NTFS on a Windows system): freebsd [10:45] ~#ll /usb0 total 75200 -rwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel 2560 23 Apr 2009 $AttrDef -rwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel 0 25 Oct 14:37 $BadClus -rwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel 9746184 23 Apr 2009 $Bitmap -rwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel 8192 25 Oct 14:37 $Boot drwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel0 25 Oct 14:37 $Extend -rwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel 67108864 25 Oct 14:37 $LogFile -rwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel 4096 25 Oct 14:37 $MFTMirr -rwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel 0 23 Apr 2009 $Secure -rwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel 131072 23 Apr 2009 $UpCase -rwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel 0 25 Oct 14:37 $Volume drwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel0 25 Oct 15:54 MyStuff drwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel0 25 Oct 16:23 RECYCLER drwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel0 25 Oct 14:37 System Volume Information The only thing that shows up in Windows is the MyStuff directory, which I put there. I can copy anything from MyStuff to anywhere else on the FreeBSD system, no worries. But if I attempt to copy a new file into the MyStuff directory, I get the following: freebsd [10:46] ~#cp ~/tmp/test /usb0/MyStuff cp: /usb0/MyStuff/test: No such file or directory freebsd [11:08] ~# You are using the ntfs driver that is built-in the FreeBSD kernel. This is read only - you will be able to read from the disc, but not write to it. In order to be able to write to this disc, install sysutils/fusefs-ntfs and use the ntfs-3g command to mount your disk. If you are not going to use the disc to transfer data between Windows and FreeBSD, I would advise you to repartition the disk and create an NTFS partition for your windows data and a FreeBSD partition in UFS format. Just backup any data, and use windows disk management to create an appropriately sized NTFS partition, leaving the rest of the disk unallocated. Then use fdisk and bsdlabel (or sysinstall) in FreeBSD to create a slice and partition for FreeBSD. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: WD External Disc Drive
Hi Manolis, Thanks very much for that very helpful reply: Now to FreeBSD. The newly formatted (as NTFS) disc appears as two devices - /dev/cd0 (never seen this before) This is how a USB cdrom appears to FreeBSD - as a SCSI device. No problem there. cp: /usb0/MyStuff/test: No such file or directory freebsd [11:08] ~# You are using the ntfs driver that is built-in the FreeBSD kernel. This is read only - you will be able to read from the disc, but not write to it. In order to be able to write to this disc, install sysutils/fusefs-ntfs and use the ntfs-3g command to mount your disk. I've done that, and it looks good, but when I try to use it: freebsd [12:12] /usr/ports#ll /dev/da0s1 crw-r- 1 root operator0, 122 26 Oct 09:02 /dev/da0s1 freebsd [12:12] /usr/ports#ntfs-3g -o rw /dev/da0s1 /mnt fuse: failed to open fuse device: No such file or directory So the device is there, but ntfs-3g fails to see it. Obviously mount_ntfs sees it OK, from my previous experiments. ntfs-3g.probe exits with no errors, so it appears that it can see it OK: freebsd [12:32] ~#ntfs-3g.probe --readwrite /dev/da0s1 freebsd [12:32] ~# Is there something else that I need to install? If you are not going to use the disc to transfer data between Windows and FreeBSD, I would advise you to repartition the disk and create an NTFS partition for your windows data and a FreeBSD partition in UFS Unfortunately, this is not the case. I need to transfer between FreeBSD and Windows, both ways :-( Thanks again. Rob Hurle -- - Rob Hurle ANU, College of Asia and the Pacific School of Culture, History and Language e-mail: rob1...@gmail.com Telephone (ANU): +61 2 6125 3169 Mobile (in VN): +84 948 243 538 (Currently in Australia) Mobile (in OZ): +61 417 293 603 (Currently in Australia) - ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: WD External Disc Drive
On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 12:33:16 +1100 Rob Hurle rob1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Manolis, Thanks very much for that very helpful reply: Now to FreeBSD. The newly formatted (as NTFS) disc appears as two devices - /dev/cd0 (never seen this before) This is how a USB cdrom appears to FreeBSD - as a SCSI device. No problem there. cp: /usb0/MyStuff/test: No such file or directory freebsd [11:08] ~# You are using the ntfs driver that is built-in the FreeBSD kernel. This is read only - you will be able to read from the disc, but not write to it. In order to be able to write to this disc, install sysutils/fusefs-ntfs and use the ntfs-3g command to mount your disk. I've done that, and it looks good, but when I try to use it: freebsd [12:12] /usr/ports#ll /dev/da0s1 crw-r- 1 root operator0, 122 26 Oct 09:02 /dev/da0s1 freebsd [12:12] /usr/ports#ntfs-3g -o rw /dev/da0s1 /mnt fuse: failed to open fuse device: No such file or directory So the device is there, but ntfs-3g fails to see it. Obviously mount_ntfs sees it OK, from my previous experiments. ntfs-3g.probe exits with no errors, so it appears that it can see it OK: freebsd [12:32] ~#ntfs-3g.probe --readwrite /dev/da0s1 freebsd [12:32] ~# Is there something else that I need to install? If you are not going to use the disc to transfer data between Windows and FreeBSD, I would advise you to repartition the disk and create an NTFS partition for your windows data and a FreeBSD partition in UFS Unfortunately, this is not the case. I need to transfer between FreeBSD and Windows, both ways :-( Thanks again. Hi, is the kernel module /usr/local/modules/ fuse.ko loaded ? Daniel - ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: WD External Disc Drive
Rob Hurle wrote: Dear All, This may sound like a Windows problem, but please read on. I made a mistake and bought a WD My Passport external 350GB disc drive for use on several Windows machines, on some of which I don't have admin access, and a couple of FreeBSD systems. On first use on Windows the disc shows up only as a virtual CD (I assume this is the firmware), unlock.exe has to be run and the software installed (admin privileges necessary). Once it's unlocked and the software installed, the big disc appears, the software can be uninstalled, and the big disc reformatted as NTFS. From then on, the virtual CD can be ignored and the big disc used on any Windows system. Now to FreeBSD. The newly formatted (as NTFS) disc appears as two devices - /dev/cd0 (never seen this before) and /dev/da0s1 (the normal USB disc drive device). They can be mounted as follows: freebsd [10:45] ~#mount_udf /dev/cd0 /mnt freebsd [10:45] ~#mount /usb0 (/etc/fstab describes the NTFS file system type, and the virtual CD is a UDF file system). We now have: freebsd [10:46] ~#df Filesystem 1K-blocksUsed Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/cd0582962582962 0 100%/mnt /dev/da0s1 311877845 2332729 309545116 1%/usb0 If we look at each device, the virtual CD has the WD software, as expected: freebsd [10:45] ~#ll /mnt total 6300 drwxr-xr-x 3 501 staff 2048 12 Sep 05:32 Extras -rwxrwxrwx 1 501 staff 3680544 5 Sep 08:20 Unlock.exe drwxrwxrwx 5 501 staff2048 5 Sep 08:30 User Manuals drwxr-xr-x3 501 staff2048 12 Sep 05:28 WD SmartWare -rwxrwxrwx 1 501 staff 2770208 5 Sep 08:20 WD SmartWare.exe -rwxrwxrwx 1 501 staff 695 19 Jun03:06 What is this.html -rwxrwxrwx 1 501 staff 88 19 Jun07:12 autorun.inf No problem. Now for the FreeBSD problem. If we look at what's on the big disc (newly formatted as NTFS on a Windows system): freebsd [10:45] ~#ll /usb0 total 75200 -rwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel 2560 23 Apr 2009 $AttrDef -rwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel 0 25 Oct 14:37 $BadClus -rwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel 9746184 23 Apr 2009 $Bitmap -rwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel 8192 25 Oct 14:37 $Boot drwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel0 25 Oct 14:37 $Extend -rwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel 67108864 25 Oct 14:37 $LogFile -rwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel 4096 25 Oct 14:37 $MFTMirr -rwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel 0 23 Apr 2009 $Secure -rwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel 131072 23 Apr 2009 $UpCase -rwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel 0 25 Oct 14:37 $Volume drwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel0 25 Oct 15:54 MyStuff drwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel0 25 Oct 16:23 RECYCLER drwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel0 25 Oct 14:37 System Volume Information The only thing that shows up in Windows is the MyStuff directory, which I put there. I can copy anything from MyStuff to anywhere else on the FreeBSD system, no worries. But if I attempt to copy a new file into the MyStuff directory, I get the following: freebsd [10:46] ~#cp ~/tmp/test /usb0/MyStuff cp: /usb0/MyStuff/test: No such file or directory freebsd [11:08] ~# What on earth is going on? Why do I get the message that test does not exist, on the directory that I'm copying to? I can copy nothing to this big disc from FreeBSD, but can copy from it OK. Why are those other files there? Are they part of the standard Windows NTFS formatting? Can I use newfs(8) to make an NTFS file system on the big disc? Any pointers to a solution would be most welcome. I'm also trying to ask similar questions on the WD lists. Thanks for any help. Cheers, Rob Hurle I would use a tool like gparted and FAT32 the drive... It may run a bit slower but both systems can read and write to it. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: WD External Disc Drive
Rob Hurle said the following on 2009-10-26 02:33: freebsd [12:12] /usr/ports#ll /dev/da0s1 crw-r- 1 root operator0, 122 26 Oct 09:02 /dev/da0s1 freebsd [12:12] /usr/ports#ntfs-3g -o rw /dev/da0s1 /mnt fuse: failed to open fuse device: No such file or directory kldload fusefs What does ls -la /dev/da* show you. So the device is there, but ntfs-3g fails to see it. Probably kldload fusefs isn't loaded (until Saturday) Obviously mount_ntfs sees it OK, from my previous experiments. ntfs-3g.probe exits with no errors, so it appears that it can see it OK: freebsd [12:32] ~#ntfs-3g.probe --readwrite /dev/da0s1 freebsd [12:32] ~# Is there something else that I need to install? If you are not going to use the disc to transfer data between Windows and FreeBSD, I would advise you to repartition the disk and create an NTFS partition for your windows data and a FreeBSD partition in UFS Unfortunately, this is not the case. I need to transfer between FreeBSD and Windows, both ways :-( Thanks again. Rob Hurle ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: WD External Disc Drive
Thank you to everyone who answered: kldload fusefs What does ls -la /dev/da* show you. So the device is there, but ntfs-3g fails to see it. Probably kldload fusefs isn't loaded (until Saturday) Yes, fuse.ko had to me copied from /usr/local/modules to /boot/kernel and then kloaded. Everything is fine now. Thanks again. Cheers, Rob Hurle -- - Rob Hurle ANU, College of Asia and the Pacific School of Culture, History and Language e-mail: rob1...@gmail.com Telephone (ANU): +61 2 6125 3169 Mobile (in VN): +84 948 243 538 (Currently in Australia) Mobile (in OZ): +61 417 293 603 (Currently in Australia) - ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
