Re: Chess for Kids (and dummies like dads)
I know this is a FreeBSD list, but there is a really excellent program for learning chess for the PC (and Mac): Learn How to Play Chess with Fritz and Chesster. For ages 8 and up. It is a really searious learning program, which has a huge book, starts with moves, then endgames, then ... Viva Media North American Editon (2003) ISBN 1-932174-13-3 (It actually comes from Germany) On Tue, Aug 03, 2004 at 11:34:02PM +, Daniela wrote: Damon Butler wrote: May I suggest Phalanx, found in the ports tree? It is an excellent chess program, works wonderfully with xboard, and 'phalanx -e 100' is very likely to meet your needs for a weak chess engine. That looks excellent indeed. Thanks! --Damon I have another suggestion. I've seen lots of Mac emulators in the ports. Why not use one of these, and run the original program? AFAIK Mac emulation is not even half as painful as Winblows emulation. Daniela ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -=[L]=- ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Chess for Kids (and dummies like dads)
I have another suggestion. I've seen lots of Mac emulators in the ports. Why not use one of these, and run the original program? AFAIK Mac emulation is not even half as painful as Winblows emulation. Daniela Not a bad idea. I've looked into Basilisk before, but it requires Mac ROM dumps, which I don't have. I also no longer own a Macintosh computer, so I don't think I could even run a Mac emulator legally. vMac and friends are too limited to be useful -- they only handle Mac Classics and Mac OS previous to OS 8 -- and they also require Mac ROMs. Which, again, I don't have. :-( --Damon ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Chess for Kids (and dummies like dads)
I know this is a FreeBSD list I know. But you folks have been such a great resource in general ... and I hoped that others on the list might find the topic interesting/useful. I'll make this my last post to the list on this subject. but there is a really excellent program for learning chess for the PC (and Mac): Learn How to Play Chess with Fritz and Chesster. For ages 8 and up. It is a really searious learning program, which has a huge book, starts with moves, then endgames, then ... That'd be grand! If it'll work under WINE, since I categorically will not use Windows and no longer own a Mac of any kind. Do you or anyone else know if it's compatible with WINE? --Damon ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Chess for Kids (and dummies like dads)
Damon Butler wrote: May I suggest Phalanx, found in the ports tree? It is an excellent chess program, works wonderfully with xboard, and 'phalanx -e 100' is very likely to meet your needs for a weak chess engine. That looks excellent indeed. Thanks! --Damon I have another suggestion. I've seen lots of Mac emulators in the ports. Why not use one of these, and run the original program? AFAIK Mac emulation is not even half as painful as Winblows emulation. Daniela ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Chess for Kids (and dummies like dads)
My nearly-eight-year-old son has taken a renewed interest in playing chess, and is also getting his father somewhat inspired as well. A few years ago when he was first interested, I had an old Mac that I ran MacChess on. It was perfect for a five-year-old because you could set it to make completely random moves. Sure it would just happen to take a piece once in a while, but it gave my son lots of confidence that he could play the game and win. Plus I could set it weak enough that I was likely to beat it too if I got tired of getting creamed. Plus my son had fun toying with all the different board and piece designs. That old Mac is history, now it's FreeBSD and Linux or nothin'. So I've built two chess engines -- gnuchess and crafty -- and two GUIs for them -- xboard and knights. This is all well and good if you happen to be a good chess player. Which neither my son nor I are. I've scoured the Internet the best I know how to find something akin to that ol' MacChess program, but I can't find anything. Do any of you have any suggestions? 1. A chess engine that is actually beatable. A truly random move setting would be cool. No matter how weak I make gnuchess and crafty, I get creamed. (OK, I'm really bad. Or I haven't learned how to properly hobble the engines.) Imagine how frustrating it is for an eight-year-old just trying to learn the game. We have to take away the opponent's rooks -- and sometimes the queen, too -- to give him a fighting chance. That's no fun. 2. Alternate GUIs. Personally, I like the look of xboard, but my son gets a kick out of selecting piece sets. Are there any other chess GUIs beyond xboard? Or other piece sets for xboard that folks have built? 3. I can't get knights to work. It doesn't appear to have been updated in over a year. It doesn't work with versions of gnuchess past version 4 (it's been well into version 5 for some time). It doesn't work with the latest version of crafty. There doesn't appear to be any way to just play a game that doesn't involve a game clock. It does, however, have lots of fun board and piece designs, which is why I got it in the first place. Thanks, Damon ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Chess for Kids (and dummies like dads)
On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 12:24:53 -0500 Damon Butler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a BSD user, I can't help you. As a chess player, I will comment that there's a certain learning curve involved, and playing against random moves isn't going to advance you far along it. I've never known anyone to become even moderately facile at chess without getting their head pounded in on a regular basis. If you or your son's ego isn't up to that, OSB(Other Sports Beckon). ;) Point well taken. ;-) But... It's not that either of us mind losing per se. What I've discovered that gnuchess and crafty are orders of magnitude stronger than the old program we used to play against. Say you want to learn to play tennis. You're just beginning. Who should you begin challenging in order to improve your game and enjoy yourself while doing it? Andy Roddick or the friend who's been taking intermediate tennis lessons through the city rec dept? In this analogy, the standard chess engines are Andy Roddicks and our old program was the intermediate friend. My son is just not gonna learn that much nor enjoy himself much playing against Andy Roddick. I don't want his first serious foray into computer chess to be *that* intimidating or demoralizing. That said, the MOST frustrating part of learning chess is usually tactical, not strategic (inadvertently throwing away pieces). That's it exactly. There are a number of good web/Java based free chess games on the net - have you tried any of them? Many will show possible moves, blink to indicate pieces at risk, etc. That sounds great! Do you have any suggestions off hand? I thought my searches were pretty exhaustive, but I didn't come up with anything like what you're talking about. if you haven't already tried it, visit sf.net and plug 'chess' into the search window. it will probably return a bunch of programs, including some which are java based. fwiw, i thought that gnuchess had level settings. are you certain that even level 1 is too difficult for your needs? --Damon ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Chess for Kids (and dummies like dads)
if you haven't already tried it, visit sf.net and plug 'chess' into the search window. it will probably return a bunch of programs, including some which are java based. Thanks. I'll try that out. fwiw, i thought that gnuchess had level settings. are you certain that even level 1 is too difficult for your needs? That could be part of the problem. There are no generalized level settings for the chess engines I've found. Apparently, computer chess is quite the discipline, involving plies and nodes and hash tables and who knows what else. As best I can understand, the most I can do to weaken the engine is to restrict the amount of time it has to think over moves and the search depth it is allowed to consider. In xboard, I've set pondering off (so the engine doesn't think when it's not its turn), forced the engine to move after only 1 second of consideration (the minimum time), and restricted the depth to 1 ply or node or whatever. Even doing all that, gnuchess and crafty are much stronger than that old MacChess program I talked about. If there's more I can do to make them more kid-friendly, I'm all ears. --Damon ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Chess for Kids (and dummies like dads)
On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 13:02:22 -0500 Damon Butler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: if you haven't already tried it, visit sf.net and plug 'chess' into the search window. it will probably return a bunch of programs, including some which are java based. Thanks. I'll try that out. fwiw, i thought that gnuchess had level settings. are you certain that even level 1 is too difficult for your needs? That could be part of the problem. There are no generalized level settings for the chess engines I've found. Apparently, computer chess is quite the discipline, involving plies and nodes and hash tables and who knows what else. As best I can understand, the most I can do to weaken the engine is to restrict the amount of time it has to think over moves and the search depth it is allowed to consider. In xboard, I've set pondering off (so the engine doesn't think when it's not its turn), forced the engine to move after only 1 second of consideration (the minimum time), and restricted the depth to 1 ply or node or whatever. Even doing all that, gnuchess and crafty are much stronger than that old MacChess program I talked about. If there's more I can do to make them more kid-friendly, I'm all ears. well damon, i haven't at all tinkered with gnuchess, so i'm sorry that i cannot help you. i can, however, suggest one alternative, which may or may not be to your liking... since trying the 'game of go' (aka [p,b]aduk, wei-chi), i've entirely lost all interest in the game of chess. there is a similar program for playing (gnugo) which allows you to set levels rather easily. there are also nice graphic clients out there (cgoban2 and ggo, among others). you can play with people on the net, live, 24 hours per day, and at all levels of ability. though the rules of chess really aren't all that complicated, the rules of go are even more simple. despite the reduced rule set, the strategies can be so complex and nuanced that even the best designed programs can only beat the most novice of players. not true for chess. (i give it a 3 stone handicap at it's maximum level and still thrash it. =) the game is _thousands of years old_ and hugely popular in asian countries, where professionals make millions of dollars and matches are regularly televised. if you're at all curious, here is a great link to get you started on the rules (java enabled browser required) : http://playgo.to/interactive/index.html as far as online servers, there are many. i have used several but most recommend 'kgs' - for it's warm and highly supportive community, and wicked go client. http://kgs.kiseido.com/ hope that, in a roundabout way, this helps. i also hope to see you and your son online (just look for my nick ;) cheers, epi p.s. chess is for IBM. (naively hoping not to cause a flame war) --Damon ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Chess for Kids (and dummies like dads)
well damon, i haven't at all tinkered with gnuchess, so i'm sorry that i cannot help you. i can, however, suggest one alternative, which may or may not be to your liking... since trying the 'game of go' (aka [p,b]aduk, wei-chi), i've entirely lost all interest in the game of chess. Oh, I'm already all over that go game. ;-) Thanks. --Damon ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Chess for Kids (and dummies like dads)
On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 14:42:11 -0500, Damon Butler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: well damon, i haven't at all tinkered with gnuchess, so i'm sorry that i cannot help you. i can, however, suggest one alternative, which may or may not be to your liking... since trying the 'game of go' (aka [p,b]aduk, wei-chi), i've entirely lost all interest in the game of chess. Oh, I'm already all over that go game. ;-) Thanks. May I suggest Phalanx, found in the ports tree? It is an excellent chess program, works wonderfully with xboard, and 'phalanx -e 100' is very likely to meet your needs for a weak chess engine. HTH. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Chess for Kids (and dummies like dads)
May I suggest Phalanx, found in the ports tree? It is an excellent chess program, works wonderfully with xboard, and 'phalanx -e 100' is very likely to meet your needs for a weak chess engine. That looks excellent indeed. Thanks! --Damon ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
