Re: Fixit instructions
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] typed: Quoting Mike Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Maybe what's needed is an Essential BSD commands handbook entry, that covers the lists the commands available in Fixit mode that are actually useful for fixing a broken system? Yes, that's exactly what I was asking for, in essense. Care to write it? :-) I'm thinking about it. mike -- Mike Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: Fixit instructions
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] typed: Quoting Mike Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: You don't have to boot the fixit cd - just mount it and look. I'm sure that what you will find on the CD is a pretty complete FreeBSD system, with the layout described in the hier man page. Close, but... root@BAPhD ~ #ls /cdrom .cshrc bin etc modules sys .profilebootfilename.txtproctmp COPYRIGHT cdrom.inf floppiesrootusr CVS-REPOcommercekernel.GENERIC rr_movedvar README.TXT dev mnt sbin Note the absence of mnt2 and stand, both of which I was aked to examine. Those directories are set up on booting the cdrom and entering Fixit mode. bin, sbin and usr/bin on the cd are indeed readable ( and extensive) directly from the CD. Right. Those aren't on the fixit disk, they are on the root file system used by the boot process. That's a stripped system file system used for installing FreeBSD. It mounts the fixit cdrom to give you the rest of the FreeBSD world. I don't mean to be difficult or over-demanding about this, especially to people who are offering help, but what I was expecting was trhat some helpful guru would have prepared a Fixit Handbook which might have chapters like Repairing a corrupt partition table and Restoring a lost directory and ... whatever. Perhaps the book Chuck suggested would do that. If such a book exists, I don't know about it. Part of the problem is that the commands for this only exist at two levels: the straightforward (you want fsck), and the incredibly baroque world of hex file editors that you're going to point at the disk. One handles all the cases you are liable to run into in real life. The other requires an intimate knowledge of the on-disk file structure, and a hex calculator - and even then what you are doing is incredibly risky. Reading man pages doesn't tell me with any clarity which commands go with what do do something. One really needs far more knowledge than I have to make sense of it all. On the other hand, a reading guide might do a lot of good, and makes a lot of sense. Something that says things like For problems with DOS partitions (aka slices), see fdisk(8), boot0cfg(8) and /usr/include/sys/disklabel.h. For problems with FreeBSD partitions, see disklabel(8) and /usr/include/sys/disklabel.h. For problems with the file system, see fsck(8), /usr/include/ufs/ufs/dinode.h and /usr/include/ufs/ufs/dir.h. Come to think of it, about the only reason one should be mounting the fixit CDROM is because your root file system is screwed. I think I just covered everything you need to know about fixing broken file systems. The problem is, that's not complete. You may need to know how to create dev entries - at least on 4.7. You'll want to know about mount in order to mount working file systems, and to check the broken file system once you've fixed it. If the breakage causes you to change what's mounted where, I tend to fix that in fixit mode with ed, so you may want to know about that. Maybe what's needed is an Essential BSD commands handbook entry, that covers the lists the commands available in Fixit mode that are actually useful for fixing a broken system? mike -- Mike Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
RE: Fixit instructions
Hay aren't you forgetting the most important usage. Use the fixit cdrom to boot small running FBSD environment so you can restore your tape backup to the failed hard drive, or dd your bkup image. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Mike Meyer Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 9:54 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Chuck Swiger; Giorgos Keramidas; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Fixit instructions In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] typed: Quoting Mike Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: You don't have to boot the fixit cd - just mount it and look. I'm sure that what you will find on the CD is a pretty complete FreeBSD system, with the layout described in the hier man page. Close, but... root@BAPhD ~ #ls /cdrom .cshrc bin etc modules sys .profilebootfilename.txtproc tmp COPYRIGHT cdrom.inf floppiesroot usr CVS-REPOcommercekernel.GENERIC rr_moved var README.TXT dev mnt sbin Note the absence of mnt2 and stand, both of which I was aked to examine. Those directories are set up on booting the cdrom and entering Fixit mode. bin, sbin and usr/bin on the cd are indeed readable ( and extensive) directly from the CD. Right. Those aren't on the fixit disk, they are on the root file system used by the boot process. That's a stripped system file system used for installing FreeBSD. It mounts the fixit cdrom to give you the rest of the FreeBSD world. I don't mean to be difficult or over-demanding about this, especially to people who are offering help, but what I was expecting was trhat some helpful guru would have prepared a Fixit Handbook which might have chapters like Repairing a corrupt partition table and Restoring a lost directory and ... whatever. Perhaps the book Chuck suggested would do that. If such a book exists, I don't know about it. Part of the problem is that the commands for this only exist at two levels: the straightforward (you want fsck), and the incredibly baroque world of hex file editors that you're going to point at the disk. One handles all the cases you are liable to run into in real life. The other requires an intimate knowledge of the on-disk file structure, and a hex calculator - and even then what you are doing is incredibly risky. Reading man pages doesn't tell me with any clarity which commands go with what do do something. One really needs far more knowledge than I have to make sense of it all. On the other hand, a reading guide might do a lot of good, and makes a lot of sense. Something that says things like For problems with DOS partitions (aka slices), see fdisk(8), boot0cfg(8) and /usr/include/sys/disklabel.h. For problems with FreeBSD partitions, see disklabel(8) and /usr/include/sys/disklabel.h. For problems with the file system, see fsck(8), /usr/include/ufs/ufs/dinode.h and /usr/include/ufs/ufs/dir.h. Come to think of it, about the only reason one should be mounting the fixit CDROM is because your root file system is screwed. I think I just covered everything you need to know about fixing broken file systems. The problem is, that's not complete. You may need to know how to create dev entries - at least on 4.7. You'll want to know about mount in order to mount working file systems, and to check the broken file system once you've fixed it. If the breakage causes you to change what's mounted where, I tend to fix that in fixit mode with ed, so you may want to know about that. Maybe what's needed is an Essential BSD commands handbook entry, that covers the lists the commands available in Fixit mode that are actually useful for fixing a broken system? mike -- Mike Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: Fixit instructions
Quoting Mike Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: You don't have to boot the fixit cd - just mount it and look. I'm sure that what you will find on the CD is a pretty complete FreeBSD system, with the layout described in the hier man page. Close, but... root@BAPhD ~ #ls /cdrom .cshrc bin etc modules sys .profilebootfilename.txtproctmp COPYRIGHT cdrom.inf floppiesrootusr CVS-REPOcommercekernel.GENERIC rr_movedvar README.TXT dev mnt sbin Note the absence of mnt2 and stand, both of which I was aked to examine. Those directories are set up on booting the cdrom and entering Fixit mode. bin, sbin and usr/bin on the cd are indeed readable ( and extensive) directly from the CD. I don't mean to be difficult or over-demanding about this, especially to people who are offering help, but what I was expecting was trhat some helpful guru would have prepared a Fixit Handbook which might have chapters like Repairing a corrupt partition table and Restoring a lost directory and ... whatever. Perhaps the book Chuck suggested would do that. Reading man pages doesn't tell me with any clarity which commands go with what do do something. One really needs far more knowledge than I have to make sense of it all. Perhaps that's the issue. Fixit is intended for expert use only? Thanks for your help, anyway. -- Brian All the Fixit CDROM is is a complete FreeBSD system. That's the single best tool you could be provided for fxing a fried system. Creating special documentation for that is pretty much pointless, because all it would do is duplicate the existing documentation. To learn about how to repair systems with the Fixit CD, you need to learn how to repair systems with FreeBSD. That documentation is in the man pages, the handbook and the FAQ. Basically, there's nothing special or magical about the Fixit disk, so there's no need for any special documentation. If you believe that's wrong, please feel free to write it and submit it as either a FAQ or handbook entry. I'll be more than happy to review your words if you want. mike -- Mike Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. --- This message sent through Adam Internet Webmail http://www.adam.com.au To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: Fixit instructions
Quoting Chuck Swiger [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Are you familiar with the documentation provided for command-line mode or domain server recovery mode when booting recent M$ operating systems via their F8 boot menu? What a lovely queston! :-) SFIAK, no such exists. Up to DOS 6.2, documentaton was excellent. From Win95 onwards, lamentable. That was one of my major incentives to switch to a unix-based system. -- Brian --- This message sent through Adam Internet Webmail http://www.adam.com.au To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: Fixit instructions
On 2003-01-28 17:17, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quoting Mike Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: There are also some writeups on the FreeBSD web site on troubleshooting. Don't doubt you, but that is the first place I looked on the Internet. That info is well hidden, I think. Not quite. I believe by 'troubleshooting' Mike was referring to the FAQ section. It should be pretty easy to find, if you start browsing at [ http://www.FreeBSD.org/docs.html ]. The first page of the site, at [ http://www.FreeBSD.org/ ], contains various documentation links. I wouldn't call that `hidden'. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: Fixit instructions
Quoting Giorgos Keramidas [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 2003-01-28 17:17, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quoting Mike Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: There are also some writeups on the FreeBSD web site on troubleshooting. Don't doubt you, but that is the first place I looked on the Internet. That info is well hidden, I think. Not quite. I believe by 'troubleshooting' Mike was referring to the FAQ section. It should be pretty easy to find, if you start browsing at [ http://www.FreeBSD.org/docs.html ]. The first page of the site, at [ http://www.FreeBSD.org/ ], contains various documentation links. I wouldn't call that `hidden'. May I respectfully ask you to follow your own advice? Then - assuming you do not already know the answer (as obviously, I don't) determine which of the documents would tell you how to use the Fixit disk. BTW, Mike and Chuck gave info which is not accurate for v5 Release Disk2 (It's OK for v4.6, except that /mnt2/usr/bin doen't exist) and apart from one O'Reilly book which I shall seek out, they basically suggest simply that I read all the man pages for the commands available in Fixit mode. FBSD has excellent documentation in so many areas that I find it VERY strange that Fixit use is such an exception. I can't even get a description of the Fixit structure or a list of all the commands available, other than by booting from the Fixit CD and looking. That's odd. -- Brian -- Brian --- This message sent through Adam Internet Webmail http://www.adam.com.au To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: Fixit instructions
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [ ... ] The only helpful instruction I have found on the use of the Fixit disk are these: You will then be placed into a shell with a wide variety of commands available (in the /stand and /mnt2/stand directories) for checking, repairing and examining file systems and their contents. Some UNIX administration experience is required to use the fixit option. Surely there must be something more comprehensive than this? Lots and lots. cd /stand touch /tmp/docs foreach file ( * ) man -p /bin/cat $file /tmp/docs end ...produces about two hundred pages worth of documentation. Comprehensive, but perhaps not organized effectively. However, the FreeBSD Handbook, or O'Reillys Essential System Administration, might be better starting places as tutorials/problem-solving resources. -Chuck To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: Fixit instructions
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] typed: I'm somewhat puzzled. The only helpful instruction I have found on the use of the Fixit disk are these: You will then be placed into a shell with a wide variety of commands available (in the /stand and /mnt2/stand directories) for checking, repairing and examining file systems and their contents. Some UNIX administration experience is required to use the fixit option. Surely there must be something more comprehensive than this? ls /stand/bin and /mnt2/bin, and possibly /stand/usr/bin and /mnt2/usr/bin. Then read the manual pages for each of those commands on Unix. There are also some writeups on the FreeBSD web site on troubleshooting. In general, fixit mode is only useful if you know how to fix a broken unix system using standard unix commands, as that what it gives you. mike -- Mike Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: Fixit instructions
Quoting Mike Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: There are also some writeups on the FreeBSD web site on troubleshooting. Don't doubt you, but that is the first place I looked on the Internet. That info is well hidden, I think. However, The tips you and Chuck have offered will keep me quite sufficiently busy and informed for a while! :-) Thanks for your help. -- Brian --- This message sent through Adam Internet Webmail http://www.adam.com.au To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
