Re: No subject was specified.

[Cliff Sarginson]

On Tue, Feb 25, 2003 at 08:41:38PM +0200, Willie Viljoen wrote:
> On Tuesday 25 February 2003 20:36, someone, possibly Wolfpaw - Dale Corse, 
> typed:
> > " now that people are making money from letting every Tom, Dick and
> > Harry, so to speak, get on "
> >
> > That sounds dangerously close to the theories of a dictator, or a
> > repressive government.. Russia and China come to mind. Why shouldn't they
> > get on? It is a public internet after all. I don't know what country your
> > in, but here we have something called the "Charter of Rights and
> > Freedoms" which is supposed to entail freedom and equality for all.
> 
> Oh don't get me wrong, I don't mind anybody getting on, but it would be nice 
> if ISPs would atleast take the responsibility to educate their users before 
> they let them on.
> 
I think this display of elitism is quite an inappropriate response.
People learn about the Internet by using it. The job of the ISP, is to
provide the connection, take precautions against abuse of the service
provided, either deliberately or by accident, and to provide some
appropriate support.

Aside from advice on being a good netizen, they are no more responsible
for educating their users than a car salesman is obliged to teach you
how to drive. 

Come on, this is 2003, this is the InterNet, not the Arpanet.. :)

-- 
Regards
   Cliff

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Re: No subject was specified.

[Giorgos Keramidas]

On 2003-02-25 20:41, Willie Viljoen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Tuesday 25 February 2003 20:36, someone,
>possibly Wolfpaw - Dale Corse, typed:
>> " now that people are making money from letting every Tom, Dick and
>> Harry, so to speak, get on "
>>
>> That sounds dangerously close to the theories of a dictator, or a
>> repressive government.. Russia and China come to mind. Why shouldn't they
>> get on? It is a public internet after all. I don't know what country your
>> in, but here we have something called the "Charter of Rights and
>> Freedoms" which is supposed to entail freedom and equality for all.
>
> Oh don't get me wrong, I don't mind anybody getting on, but it would
> be nice if ISPs would atleast take the responsibility to educate
> their users before they let them on.

That's a bit utopian in nature.  ISPs don't care about education of
users.  They only care about their money, unless they don't work as a
business and have other means of getting themselves an income.

The Internet culture, if I may use the term, is something that depends
on us, the old farts of the place to grow and reach those that you
call `uneducated'.  Education is not something that ISPs can sell in a
package with the `connect fast with FooBar Networks, Inc.' CDROM disk.

It's us that have to sit down and write polite replies when someone
asks what seems a lot like a troll.  The `holier than thou' attitude
that is usually the result of what you described above is not going
to help anyone.  The newcomers to the networked world will quickly run
away from anything related to computers and networks, screaming ``Oh,
those absolutely mad lunatics are freaks that quickly jump upon anyone
who asks honestly a simple question''.  The ones left behind will
shake their heads in amazement, agreeing that ``This is outrageous!
I mean, did that &*^% troll really expect anyone to take her
seriously and reply?''.

Not good.  Definitely not good :-/

Both are right, and at the same time, both are wrong.


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Re: No subject was specified.

[Kevin Golding]

Someone, quite probably Bill Moran, once wrote:
>I'm really hoping that he replies with a link to the page in questions, if
>it's poorly done, I may email the ISP and recommend that some additional
>information be posted.

My guess is it's  which does
indeed 403 and it also has the "Powered by FreeBSD" image linking to
, but nothing else.

It really does need contact info for Global Internet
  Having a quick look around their site
suggests a few broken links and a slightly strange collection of support
pages.

Kevin
-- 
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Re: No subject was specified.

[Willie Viljoen]

On Tuesday 25 February 2003 20:36, someone, possibly Wolfpaw - Dale Corse, 
typed:
> " now that people are making money from letting every Tom, Dick and
> Harry, so to speak, get on "
>
> That sounds dangerously close to the theories of a dictator, or a
> repressive government.. Russia and China come to mind. Why shouldn't they
> get on? It is a public internet after all. I don't know what country your
> in, but here we have something called the "Charter of Rights and
> Freedoms" which is supposed to entail freedom and equality for all.

Oh don't get me wrong, I don't mind anybody getting on, but it would be nice 
if ISPs would atleast take the responsibility to educate their users before 
they let them on.

Will

-- 
Willie Viljoen
Freelance IT Consultant

214 Paul Kruger Avenue, Universitas
Bloemfontein
9321
South Africa

+27 51 522 15 60
+27 51 522 44 36 (after hours)
+27 82 404 03 27 (mobile)

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: No subject was specified.

[Bill Moran]

Willie Viljoen wrote:
On Tuesday 25 February 2003 19:56, someone, possibly Bill Moran, typed:

Personally, I think it's foolish to just _assume_ that this guy is a
crackpot.  I understand that his comments seem Trollish in nature, but
by his responses, I think it's also quite possible that he simply isn't
familiar with FreeBSD and didn't know what to make of the daemon logo.
I'm more interested in "why is his ISP displaying the daemon logo when
there's a problem with his page?"
All I can think is that they use BSD servers and probably wrote their own 
error handler (that's the newest big thing amongst ISPs that like to show 
off.)

On these custom error handler pages, displaying logos of the web server 
software and operating system is common.

Not that I'm complaining, it's free advertising for us :)
I'm not saying that it's bad advertising, but it leaves us answering
questions that are the ISP's responsibility (that we can't even answer
if we wanted to in many cases)
I would just appreciate it if the ISPs would ensure that the error page
is descriptive enough that questions like this don't come this way.  Then
again, some people don't bother to read, and would ask the question anyway,
and there's little we can do about that.
I'm really hoping that he replies with a link to the page in questions, if
it's poorly done, I may email the ISP and recommend that some additional
information be posted.
My biggest concern is that occasionally a question like this draws flames,
and that's never good PR.  Especially when the poster is honestly trying to
figure out what's wrong and just went down the wrong path.
--
Bill Moran
Potential Technologies
http://www.potentialtech.com
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RE: No subject was specified.

[Wolfpaw - Dale Corse]

I agree... I just found it funny that he referred to "Satanic Imagery".. the little 
"daemon" is cool :) It
makes him an average person, who has no idea what goes on BEHIND his website, only 
that it exists. Can't
expect everyone to know all about things they really have no reason to bother 
learning. As far as:

" now that people are making money from letting every Tom, Dick and Harry, so to 
speak, get on "

That sounds dangerously close to the theories of a dictator, or a repressive 
government.. Russia and
China come to mind. Why shouldn't they get on? It is a public internet after all. I 
don't know what
country your in, but here we have something called the "Charter of Rights and 
Freedoms" which is
supposed to entail freedom and equality for all.

Regards,
D.

Dale Corse
System Administrator
Wolfpaw Services Inc.
http://www.wolfpaw.net
(780) 474-4095 

-Original Message-
From: Bill Moran [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 10:56 AM
To: Willie Viljoen
Cc: Wolfpaw - Dale Corse; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: No subject was specified.


Willie Viljoen wrote:
> On Tuesday 25 February 2003 17:42, someone, possibly Wolfpaw - Dale Corse, 
> typed:
> 
>>Hats off to you Bill :)
>>
>>Satanic Imagery.. LOL.. I always thought he was cute :)
>>
>>D.
> 
> Well, that's the problem with the internet today... now that people are 
> making money from letting every Tom, Dick and Harry, so to speak, get on, 
> we will just be getting more and more crackpots... oh well...

Personally, I think it's foolish to just _assume_ that this guy is a
crackpot.  I understand that his comments seem Trollish in nature, but
by his responses, I think it's also quite possible that he simply isn't
familiar with FreeBSD and didn't know what to make of the daemon logo.
I'm more interested in "why is his ISP displaying the daemon logo when
there's a problem with his page?"

-- 
Bill Moran
Potential Technologies
http://www.potentialtech.com





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Re: No subject was specified.

[Willie Viljoen]

On Tuesday 25 February 2003 19:56, someone, possibly Bill Moran, typed:
> Personally, I think it's foolish to just _assume_ that this guy is a
> crackpot.  I understand that his comments seem Trollish in nature, but
> by his responses, I think it's also quite possible that he simply isn't
> familiar with FreeBSD and didn't know what to make of the daemon logo.
> I'm more interested in "why is his ISP displaying the daemon logo when
> there's a problem with his page?"

All I can think is that they use BSD servers and probably wrote their own 
error handler (that's the newest big thing amongst ISPs that like to show 
off.)

On these custom error handler pages, displaying logos of the web server 
software and operating system is common.

Not that I'm complaining, it's free advertising for us :)

-- 
Willie Viljoen
Freelance IT Consultant

214 Paul Kruger Avenue, Universitas
Bloemfontein
9321
South Africa

+27 51 522 15 60
+27 51 522 44 36 (after hours)
+27 82 404 03 27 (mobile)

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: No subject was specified.

[Bill Moran]

Willie Viljoen wrote:
On Tuesday 25 February 2003 17:42, someone, possibly Wolfpaw - Dale Corse, 
typed:

Hats off to you Bill :)

Satanic Imagery.. LOL.. I always thought he was cute :)

D.
Well, that's the problem with the internet today... now that people are 
making money from letting every Tom, Dick and Harry, so to speak, get on, 
we will just be getting more and more crackpots... oh well...
Personally, I think it's foolish to just _assume_ that this guy is a
crackpot.  I understand that his comments seem Trollish in nature, but
by his responses, I think it's also quite possible that he simply isn't
familiar with FreeBSD and didn't know what to make of the daemon logo.
I'm more interested in "why is his ISP displaying the daemon logo when
there's a problem with his page?"
--
Bill Moran
Potential Technologies
http://www.potentialtech.com
To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: No subject was specified.

[Willie Viljoen]

On Tuesday 25 February 2003 17:42, someone, possibly Wolfpaw - Dale Corse, 
typed:
> Hats off to you Bill :)
>
> Satanic Imagery.. LOL.. I always thought he was cute :)
>
> D.

Well, that's the problem with the internet today... now that people are 
making money from letting every Tom, Dick and Harry, so to speak, get on, 
we will just be getting more and more crackpots... oh well...

-- 
Willie Viljoen
Freelance IT Consultant

214 Paul Kruger Avenue, Universitas
Bloemfontein
9321
South Africa

+27 51 522 15 60
+27 51 522 44 36 (after hours)
+27 82 404 03 27 (mobile)

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: No subject was specified.

[Wolfpaw - Dale Corse]

Hats off to you Bill :)

Satanic Imagery.. LOL.. I always thought he was cute :)

D.

Dale Corse
System Administrator
Wolfpaw Services Inc.
http://www.wolfpaw.net
(780) 474-4095 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Bill Moran
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 7:42 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: No subject was specified.


Harry Horse wrote:
> Bill Moran wrote:
>>Harry Horse wrote:
>>
>>>What are you doing on my home page?
>>>Who are you and what does your satanic imagery refer to?
>>>Harry Horse
>>
>>Who are you and what are you talking about?
>>
>>--
>>Bill Moran
>>Potential Technologies
>>http://www.potentialtech.com
> 
> Dear Bill,
> I recently tried to access my home page and found your company
> logo spread across it. Are you something to do with Globalnet?
> Access was denied. Your address appeared on the link.
> What does your company do?

Which company logo?  FreeBSD?  My company is a computer consulting
firm in Pennsylvania.  I often donate time to the FreeBSD project
by answering questions (such as this).

FreeBSD is not a company.  Read the information at www.freebsd.org.
FreeBSD is software.  It's very likely that Globalnet uses FreeBSD
on the server that houses your homepage.  You should contact them
if you're having trouble.

But then again, I could be wrong, since you didn't put much detail
in your message.  I don't know if you're talking about FreeBSD or
just emailed the wrong address.  You should at least give us a
link to the homepage in question so we're not guessing at what
we think you might be seeing.

There is no satanic imagry.  Chuck is a daemon, which is a
computer program that runs all the time.  He is not satanic, he's
metaphoric.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] is a mailing list with thousands of
subscribers.  It's customary to reply to the mailing list when
you receive a response from it, not the individual.  You can
usually accomplish this through the "reply all" command on your
mailing software.

Hope this information is helpful.

-- 
Bill Moran
Potential Technologies
http://www.potentialtech.com


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Re: No subject was specified.

[Bill Moran]

Harry Horse wrote:
Bill Moran wrote:
Harry Horse wrote:

What are you doing on my home page?
Who are you and what does your satanic imagery refer to?
Harry Horse
Who are you and what are you talking about?

--
Bill Moran
Potential Technologies
http://www.potentialtech.com
Dear Bill,
I recently tried to access my home page and found your company
logo spread across it. Are you something to do with Globalnet?
Access was denied. Your address appeared on the link.
What does your company do?
Which company logo?  FreeBSD?  My company is a computer consulting
firm in Pennsylvania.  I often donate time to the FreeBSD project
by answering questions (such as this).
FreeBSD is not a company.  Read the information at www.freebsd.org.
FreeBSD is software.  It's very likely that Globalnet uses FreeBSD
on the server that houses your homepage.  You should contact them
if you're having trouble.
But then again, I could be wrong, since you didn't put much detail
in your message.  I don't know if you're talking about FreeBSD or
just emailed the wrong address.  You should at least give us a
link to the homepage in question so we're not guessing at what
we think you might be seeing.
There is no satanic imagry.  Chuck is a daemon, which is a
computer program that runs all the time.  He is not satanic, he's
metaphoric.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] is a mailing list with thousands of
subscribers.  It's customary to reply to the mailing list when
you receive a response from it, not the individual.  You can
usually accomplish this through the "reply all" command on your
mailing software.
Hope this information is helpful.

--
Bill Moran
Potential Technologies
http://www.potentialtech.com
To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: No subject was specified.

[Franklin Pierce]

- Original Message -
From: Bill Moran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:10:28 -0500
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: No subject was specified.

> Harry Horse wrote:
> > What are you doing on my home page?
> > Who are you and what does your satanic imagery refer to?
> > Harry Horse
> 
> Who are you and what are you talking about?
> 
> -- 
> Bill Moran

In a previous incarnation I 
was a 1.9 metre long sac of 
phospho-lipid barriers. 

How about you? 
-- 
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Re: No subject was specified.

[Bill Moran]

Harry Horse wrote:
What are you doing on my home page?
Who are you and what does your satanic imagery refer to?
Harry Horse
Who are you and what are you talking about?

--
Bill Moran
Potential Technologies
http://www.potentialtech.com
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