Re: ThinkPad 3.0GHz: can anybody verify?
On Sat, 6 Sep 2008, Gary Kline wrote: > On Fri, Sep 05, 2008 at 04:09:12PM +1000, Ian Smith wrote: > > > I had no trouble dropping a 120GB Fujitsu into my T23 recently (was > > 30GB), so I expect 160GB would be fine, especially in a much later > > model. And 2GB is likely plenty for anything but Microsloth Vasta. > > > > Something to consider is what type of RAM it uses, eg the older PC133 > > 144-pin SDRAM I need for my T23 is now very expensive, ~U$70 per 512MB > > stick, or around A$100 shipped, where newer RAM is a fraction of that. > > > > > As an example (T-41): > > > > > > http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/MIGR-58183.html > > > > I've never heard of a uniprocessor Thinkpad running anywhere near 3GHz, > > but then there's lots I've never heard of .. but the T41[/p] only goes > > to 1.7GHz according to the above URL, so it must be a much later model. > > > > On a quick check, the fastest T43 seems to be a Pentium M 770 @ 2.13GHz. > > > [[ ... ]] > > > > > Well I certainly wouldn't buy a Thinkpad I didn't have the EXACT model > > number of, when that reveals the CPU type/speed, HD and RAM originally > > fitted, CD/CDRW/DVD[RW], screen size, video card, wireless etc options. [..] > okay, the long/short of it is that i spent last night anf this > morning asking several .com places that sold used TP's if > > 1) they would sell me the laptop without Windose and credit me. That's hard enough to wangle on a _new_ laptop! Depending on model, you may need 'doze (or at least some form of DOS) to upgrade its BIOS (sad but true, and you do want to use the latest BIOS, esp. re ACPI). I have ad0s1 as a 4GB FAT32 slice for such purposes. Again, the Lenovo/IBM site/s show which models require that, though most of the later ones can have their BIOS & EC upgraded from a bootable CD. > 2) they had an uniprocs >= 2.2 and <= 3.0 > 3) they would do upgrade or > 4) provide me with the upgrade into. > > I found some dual-core that were like 1.7GHz- 2.2GHz. sound > right? Sounds about right for the recent duallies, yes, but which models? Main problem with (any) dual-core laptop is inability to suspend/resume, so if that matters to you, either go for a uniprocessor model or be prepared to run -CURRENT and help with debugging SMP suspend/resume, which (as I recall) was being developed on a T60 or T61 .. > several had large ~(120G) drive, 1G RAM. .LT. $800, which is not > that bad. A wweek ago I asked a "Live Chat" person about > scrubbing the Windows; it was "No; sold as-is." You still haven't got the primary pieces of information you need: a) the Thinkpad model (T-, X-, Z-, A- or R-something ..) and b) the detailed 'type' number; eg my T23 is a '2647-4MA'. Given that, go to the Lenovo site and you'll see where to enter it to get your _exact_ specs. I did plenty of this while hunting for mine, also checking the FreeBSD Laptop Compatibility List. I wanted a T23 or T43 (the latter was over my budget at the time, besides I wanted a serial and parallel port) and I checked out various R-series and A-series models on offer (no thanks!) So just 'Thinkpad' is way too broad, rather like saying "it's a Ford" :) > Of note: when I checked that discountpc place, the 3.0Ghz was > gone; the other were from 1.2 to 2.0GHz. More disappointing was > the sloppy" way some site had listed their TP's. E.G.: 2000GHz > and other careless errors. Makes you wonder how far these > places have to dim the lights when they are paying their > employees... . I got mine privately on ebay, but only after knowing exactly what I was expecting. I was lucky and got a mint condition one for $400 shipped which was a great price for a T23 back then - not now of course. Don't buy from anyone too lazy to turn it over and read you the numbers! good luck, Ian ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: ThinkPad 3.0GHz: can anybody verify?
On Fri, Sep 05, 2008 at 04:09:12PM +1000, Ian Smith wrote: > I had no trouble dropping a 120GB Fujitsu into my T23 recently (was > 30GB), so I expect 160GB would be fine, especially in a much later > model. And 2GB is likely plenty for anything but Microsloth Vasta. > > Something to consider is what type of RAM it uses, eg the older PC133 > 144-pin SDRAM I need for my T23 is now very expensive, ~U$70 per 512MB > stick, or around A$100 shipped, where newer RAM is a fraction of that. > > > > > As an example (T-41): > > > > http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/MIGR-58183.html > > I've never heard of a uniprocessor Thinkpad running anywhere near 3GHz, > but then there's lots I've never heard of .. but the T41[/p] only goes > to 1.7GHz according to the above URL, so it must be a much later model. > > On a quick check, the fastest T43 seems to be a Pentium M 770 @ 2.13GHz. > [[ ... ]] > > Well I certainly wouldn't buy a Thinkpad I didn't have the EXACT model > number of, when that reveals the CPU type/speed, HD and RAM originally > fitted, CD/CDRW/DVD[RW], screen size, video card, wireless etc options. > > Maybe you (Gary) could post an URL illustrating one of these machines? > > > As in, what's the RGB code for Thinkpad Black? :) Ian, how about "#trublk" :-) okay, the long/short of it is that i spent last night anf this morning asking several .com places that sold used TP's if 1) they would sell me the laptop without Windose and credit me. 2) they had an uniprocs >= 2.2 and <= 3.0 3) they would do upgrade or 4) provide me with the upgrade into. I found some dual-core that were like 1.7GHz- 2.2GHz. sound right? several had large ~(120G) drive, 1G RAM. .LT. $800, which is not that bad. A wweek ago I asked a "Live Chat" person about scrubbing the Windows; it was "No; sold as-is." Of note: when I checked that discountpc place, the 3.0Ghz was gone; the other were from 1.2 to 2.0GHz. More disappointing was the sloppy" way some site had listed their TP's. E.G.: 2000GHz and other careless errors. Makes you wonder how far these places have to dim the lights when they are paying their employees... . gary > > cheers, Ian -- Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: ThinkPad 3.0GHz: can anybody verify?
> This could lead me way into off-topic-ness, so I'm going to leave it > alone ;) As in, what's the RGB code for Thinkpad Black? :) #00 ? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: ThinkPad 3.0GHz: can anybody verify?
On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 14:48:06 -0400 Steve Bertrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Gary Kline wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 03, 2008 at 11:00:19PM -0400, Steve Bertrand wrote: > >> Gary Kline wrote: > >>> Folks, > >>> > >>> I'm looking at a 3GHz ThinkPad w/out any OS. It's got > >>> at most 512M memory and only 40G drive. The guy I'm going to > >>> have upgrade this l'top thinks it will take a 160GB drive easily. > >>> Also that the RAM might max out at just 2GB. I had no trouble dropping a 120GB Fujitsu into my T23 recently (was 30GB), so I expect 160GB would be fine, especially in a much later model. And 2GB is likely plenty for anything but Microsloth Vasta. Something to consider is what type of RAM it uses, eg the older PC133 144-pin SDRAM I need for my T23 is now very expensive, ~U$70 per 512MB stick, or around A$100 shipped, where newer RAM is a fraction of that. > >>> Any fellow TP-people onlist who know if my friend is right? > >> If you specify the model of the laptop, a quick Google or search on IBM > >> (Lenovo) website will inform you what the maximum upgrade path on > >> hardware is on the box. > > > > > >So if this 3GHz was an X-41 or a T-41, there'll be someplace > >online with the exact specs? Or is there more to the model > >designation. I have tried to find some specs on upgrade when I > >had my 600E. Found nothing. > > As an example (T-41): > > http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/MIGR-58183.html I've never heard of a uniprocessor Thinkpad running anywhere near 3GHz, but then there's lots I've never heard of .. but the T41[/p] only goes to 1.7GHz according to the above URL, so it must be a much later model. On a quick check, the fastest T43 seems to be a Pentium M 770 @ 2.13GHz. > In the past, when dealing with business client purchases, what upgrade > paths I could not find on a website or via documentation, I was always > able to call up and ask via telephone. > > >GVood point! I'll find what what this guy's quals are. No sense > >in blowing $400-500 out the window, then going "Oh, S**t!" Well I certainly wouldn't buy a Thinkpad I didn't have the EXACT model number of, when that reveals the CPU type/speed, HD and RAM originally fitted, CD/CDRW/DVD[RW], screen size, video card, wireless etc options. Maybe you (Gary) could post an URL illustrating one of these machines? > This could lead me way into off-topic-ness, so I'm going to leave it > alone ;) As in, what's the RGB code for Thinkpad Black? :) cheers, Ian ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: ThinkPad 3.0GHz: can anybody verify?
Gary Kline wrote: On Wed, Sep 03, 2008 at 11:00:19PM -0400, Steve Bertrand wrote: Gary Kline wrote: Folks, I'm looking at a 3GHz ThinkPad w/out any OS. It's got at most 512M memory and only 40G drive. The guy I'm going to have upgrade this l'top thinks it will take a 160GB drive easily. Also that the RAM might max out at just 2GB. Any fellow TP-people onlist who know if my friend is right? If you specify the model of the laptop, a quick Google or search on IBM (Lenovo) website will inform you what the maximum upgrade path on hardware is on the box. So if this 3GHz was an X-41 or a T-41, there'll be someplace online with the exact specs? Or is there more to the model designation. I have tried to find some specs on upgrade when I had my 600E. Found nothing. As an example (T-41): http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/MIGR-58183.html In the past, when dealing with business client purchases, what upgrade paths I could not find on a website or via documentation, I was always able to call up and ask via telephone. GVood point! I'll find what what this guy's quals are. No sense in blowing $400-500 out the window, then going "Oh, S**t!" This could lead me way into off-topic-ness, so I'm going to leave it alone ;) Cheers, Steve ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: ThinkPad 3.0GHz: can anybody verify?
Any fellow TP-people onlist who know if my friend is right? no idea. anyway 512MB is more than enough. Not if you're going to create a "ram-drive" or whatever it's called these days. i use tmpfs, but anyway no need to. unix automatically caches as much as it can. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: ThinkPad 3.0GHz: can anybody verify?
Dumb-question-dept:: is the "dual-core 2.2GHz == 4.4GHz" single processor? I just bought my daughter a MacBook dual-core 2.4 and if you run at least 2 CPU-intensive processes in parallel - yes it's MORE THAN 4.4Ghz performance equivalent. why more? because when processor gets stalled at memory access (memories are still 45ns at most), throughput is halved not stopped. in unix environment bunch of slower processors are always better than one fast. I'm not sure what model these 3.0GHz is; but IBM cheaped out on the memory (256-512M) and they're all 40-60G max drive. So just wondering how far these used laptops can go. Since I'll be running 7.1 or Ubuntu, no need for **super** fast. my ONLY home computer is IBM/Lenovo T23 laptop with celeron 1200 and 256MB RAM. it's really enough ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: ThinkPad 3.0GHz: can anybody verify?
On Thu, Sep 04, 2008 at 10:15:42AM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > > I'm looking at a 3GHz ThinkPad w/out any OS. It's got > > at most 512M memory and only 40G drive. The guy I'm going to > > have upgrade this l'top thinks it will take a 160GB drive easily. > > Also that the RAM might max out at just 2GB. > > > > Any fellow TP-people onlist who know if my friend is right? > > no idea. anyway 512MB is more than enough. Not if you're going to create a "ram-drive" or whatever it's called these days. -- Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: ThinkPad 3.0GHz: can anybody verify?
On Wed, Sep 03, 2008 at 11:13:05PM -0400, Greg Larkin wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Gary Kline wrote: > > Folks, > > > > I'm looking at a 3GHz ThinkPad w/out any OS. It's got > > at most 512M memory and only 40G drive. The guy I'm going to > > have upgrade this l'top thinks it will take a 160GB drive easily. > > Also that the RAM might max out at just 2GB. > > > > Any fellow TP-people onlist who know if my friend is right? > > > > Hi Gary, > > What's the laptop's model number (e.g. 2468-8EU or something similar)? > It should be shown on the bottom somewhere. > > The IBM and/or Lenovo support sites have a wealth of information where > you can find your answers, but it helps to know the model number first. Ah, okay: that's just what I asked Steve Bertrand, up-queue. I haven't bought the laptop yet; have seen a (growing) number of these 3GHz for sale on various used sites. For unix, anything over 2.4 is pently reasonable, IMO, so I figure 3.0 ought to serve for years. I'll see if the sellers will give me more detail. gary > > Regards, > Greg > - -- > Greg Larkin > > http://www.FreeBSD.org/ - The Power To Serve > http://www.sourcehosting.net/ - Ready. Set. Code. > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFIv1JB0sRouByUApARAtchAJ4mAeuJBk4lxnrQCj8Y9mrkwj83nwCgv6Mu > HTRMZIPeJyt/gJiKWPcGvSY= > =akk0 > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > -- Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: ThinkPad 3.0GHz: can anybody verify?
On Wed, Sep 03, 2008 at 11:00:19PM -0400, Steve Bertrand wrote: > Gary Kline wrote: > > Folks, > > > > I'm looking at a 3GHz ThinkPad w/out any OS. It's got > > at most 512M memory and only 40G drive. The guy I'm going to > > have upgrade this l'top thinks it will take a 160GB drive easily. > > Also that the RAM might max out at just 2GB. > > > > Any fellow TP-people onlist who know if my friend is right? > > If you specify the model of the laptop, a quick Google or search on IBM > (Lenovo) website will inform you what the maximum upgrade path on > hardware is on the box. So if this 3GHz was an X-41 or a T-41, there'll be someplace online with the exact specs? Or is there more to the model designation. I have tried to find some specs on upgrade when I had my 600E. Found nothing. > > With the resources the manufacturers put out freely regarding > documentation, I say that if you have someone who *thinks* the ThinkPad > will take certain hardware, you need to walk away, and pay someone > different who knows how to find out _for sure_ what hardware the box can > take, and who will be confident in saying and showing why if asked. > > Once you have a confident hardware tech, then you will be > confident/comfortable spending your money there... > GVood point! I'll find what what this guy's quals are. No sense in blowing $400-500 out the window, then going "Oh, S**t!" gary > > Steve -- Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: ThinkPad 3.0GHz: can anybody verify?
On Wed, Sep 03, 2008 at 07:18:13PM -0700, Kurt Buff wrote: > I got a Thinkpad T61 back in May/June that had 4gig factory-installed. > Dual core, but only 2.2GHz - I could've gotten a faster proc, but I > wasn't willing to pay the price. I did splurge on a 120gbyte 7200rpm > drive, though. Came with SUSE on it, too, but I've got it dual booting > with FreeBSD 7 amd64. Works great, except that the native FireFox and > all other web browsers I've tried crash (no core, nothing, it just > disappears) on the javascript on a lot of web sites, including gmail. > Haven't had the time to pursue that one very much, though I've asked > on this list a few times. Dumb-question-dept:: is the "dual-core 2.2GHz == 4.4GHz" single processor? I just bought my daughter a MacBook dual-core 2.4 and have been wondering. --Also, time to get her hooked on Unix:) I'm not sure what model these 3.0GHz is; but IBM cheaped out on the memory (256-512M) and they're all 40-60G max drive. So just wondering how far these used laptops can go. Since I'll be running 7.1 or Ubuntu, no need for **super** fast. You browsers crashes are curious. FF-2 crashed consistantly here on my Dell, 7.0. The others: no problem. FF3 seems to work fine except that I'm having troublr with flash. (I've tried both native anf the linux-fixefox. same thing. gdb cannot grok the core dumps, so rather than waste time, I just KVM over to my Ubuntu system.) gary > > > Kurt > > On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 6:53 PM, Gary Kline <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >Folks, > > > >I'm looking at a 3GHz ThinkPad w/out any OS. It's got > >at most 512M memory and only 40G drive. The guy I'm going to > >have upgrade this l'top thinks it will take a 160GB drive easily. > >Also that the RAM might max out at just 2GB. > > > >Any fellow TP-people onlist who know if my friend is right? > > > > -- > > Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix > >http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org -- Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: ThinkPad 3.0GHz: can anybody verify?
Any fellow TP-people onlist who know if my friend is right? no idea. anyway 512MB is more than enough. Sounds like Bill Gates who once said that 8MB will be more than enough for everyone... 640kB to be exact. would be - with well done software and for things most people actually need. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: ThinkPad 3.0GHz: can anybody verify?
Hi, I'm looking at a 3GHz ThinkPad w/out any OS. It's got at most 512M memory and only 40G drive. The guy I'm going to have upgrade this l'top thinks it will take a 160GB drive easily. Also that the RAM might max out at just 2GB. Any fellow TP-people onlist who know if my friend is right? no idea. anyway 512MB is more than enough. Sounds like Bill Gates who once said that 8MB will be more than enough for everyone... -- Zbigniew Szalbot www.LCWords.com smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: ThinkPad 3.0GHz: can anybody verify?
I'm looking at a 3GHz ThinkPad w/out any OS. It's got at most 512M memory and only 40G drive. The guy I'm going to have upgrade this l'top thinks it will take a 160GB drive easily. Also that the RAM might max out at just 2GB. Any fellow TP-people onlist who know if my friend is right? no idea. anyway 512MB is more than enough. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: ThinkPad 3.0GHz: can anybody verify?
Gary Kline wrote: Folks, I'm looking at a 3GHz ThinkPad w/out any OS. It's got at most 512M memory and only 40G drive. The guy I'm going to have upgrade this l'top thinks it will take a 160GB drive easily. Also that the RAM might max out at just 2GB. Any fellow TP-people onlist who know if my friend is right? If you specify the model of the laptop, a quick Google or search on IBM (Lenovo) website will inform you what the maximum upgrade path on hardware is on the box. With the resources the manufacturers put out freely regarding documentation, I say that if you have someone who *thinks* the ThinkPad will take certain hardware, you need to walk away, and pay someone different who knows how to find out _for sure_ what hardware the box can take, and who will be confident in saying and showing why if asked. Once you have a confident hardware tech, then you will be confident/comfortable spending your money there... Steve ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: ThinkPad 3.0GHz: can anybody verify?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Gary Kline wrote: > Folks, > > I'm looking at a 3GHz ThinkPad w/out any OS. It's got > at most 512M memory and only 40G drive. The guy I'm going to > have upgrade this l'top thinks it will take a 160GB drive easily. > Also that the RAM might max out at just 2GB. > > Any fellow TP-people onlist who know if my friend is right? > Hi Gary, What's the laptop's model number (e.g. 2468-8EU or something similar)? It should be shown on the bottom somewhere. The IBM and/or Lenovo support sites have a wealth of information where you can find your answers, but it helps to know the model number first. Regards, Greg - -- Greg Larkin http://www.FreeBSD.org/ - The Power To Serve http://www.sourcehosting.net/ - Ready. Set. Code. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIv1JB0sRouByUApARAtchAJ4mAeuJBk4lxnrQCj8Y9mrkwj83nwCgv6Mu HTRMZIPeJyt/gJiKWPcGvSY= =akk0 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: ThinkPad 3.0GHz: can anybody verify?
I got a Thinkpad T61 back in May/June that had 4gig factory-installed. Dual core, but only 2.2GHz - I could've gotten a faster proc, but I wasn't willing to pay the price. I did splurge on a 120gbyte 7200rpm drive, though. Came with SUSE on it, too, but I've got it dual booting with FreeBSD 7 amd64. Works great, except that the native FireFox and all other web browsers I've tried crash (no core, nothing, it just disappears) on the javascript on a lot of web sites, including gmail. Haven't had the time to pursue that one very much, though I've asked on this list a few times. Kurt On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 6:53 PM, Gary Kline <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Folks, > >I'm looking at a 3GHz ThinkPad w/out any OS. It's got >at most 512M memory and only 40G drive. The guy I'm going to >have upgrade this l'top thinks it will take a 160GB drive easily. >Also that the RAM might max out at just 2GB. > >Any fellow TP-people onlist who know if my friend is right? > > -- > Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix >http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
