2009/10/29 Lars Eighner :
> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009, Ruben de Groot wrote:
>
>> sendmail is NOT a legacy application. It's actively being developed
>> ON FreeBSD. Actually, the maintainer(s) are doing a great job
>
> Bullshit.
>
> Why does sendmail call up the internet during boot? If it needs to know
At 02:50 AM 10/30/2009, Randi Harper wrote:
This bikeshed is old and tired. I don't want to paint it. I want to drown it
in lighter fluid and set it on fire.
I've never seen a bike shed. Unless perhaps it had a furry seat cover.
--Brett Glass
___
f
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009, Ian Smith wrote:
> Why does sendmail call up the internet during boot? If it needs to know who
> it is, why can't it look in hosts?
See the section: WHO AM I? in /usr/src/contrib/sendmail/cf/README
(assuming you haven't deleted the documentation from your system)
Or did
MAKE THE PAIN STOP.
Seriously, read back in the friggin' mailing list archives. None of y'all
are going to say anything that hasn't been said before. Or don't, and just
prove how valuable your time isn't by wasting it arguing about something
that everyone else is just rolling their eyes at and ign
In freebsd-questions Digest, Vol 282, Issue 14, Message 14
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 14:58:54 -0500 (CDT) Lars Eighner
wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009, Ruben de Groot wrote:
>
> > sendmail is NOT a legacy application. It's actively being developed
> > ON FreeBSD. Actually, the maintainer(s) are doing
On Thursday 29 October 2009 21:58:54 Lars Eighner wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009, Ruben de Groot wrote:
> > sendmail is NOT a legacy application. It's actively being developed
> > ON FreeBSD. Actually, the maintainer(s) are doing a great job
>
> Bullshit.
>
> Why does sendmail call up the internet du
Having used sendmail since (quite nearly) the day it was released,
and having also spent considerable time with postfix, exim, etc.
in a variety of environments both small and quite large, I think I'm
in a position to address this.
Sendmail remains one of the best choices for an MTA. It's quite
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 23:39:49 +0200
Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:34:35 +, RW
> wrote:
> > On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:08:24 +0200
> > Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
> >> What is nice about Sendmail today is that with minimal changes to a
> >> base FreeBSD installation (the rc.conf(
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:34:35 +, RW wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:08:24 +0200
> Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
>> What is nice about Sendmail today is that with minimal changes to a
>> base FreeBSD installation (the rc.conf(5) variable called
>> "sendmail_enable" and a SMART_HOST value in sendmail
Ruben de Groot wrote:
On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 06:55:20PM +0100, Erik Norgaard typed:
Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
I don't argue for a replacement but for the elimination. Install a port
if you need an MTA, you're happy with that way for so many other
standard services.
Isn't this going a little
On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 06:34:35PM +, RW wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:08:24 +0200
> Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
>
>
> > What is nice about Sendmail today is that with minimal changes to a
> > base FreeBSD installation (the rc.conf(5) variable called
> > "sendmail_enable" and a SMART_HOST val
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009, Ruben de Groot wrote:
sendmail is NOT a legacy application. It's actively being developed
ON FreeBSD. Actually, the maintainer(s) are doing a great job
Bullshit.
Why does sendmail call up the internet during boot? If it needs to know who
it is, why can't it look in hosts
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:08:24 +0200
Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
> What is nice about Sendmail today is that with minimal changes to a
> base FreeBSD installation (the rc.conf(5) variable called
> "sendmail_enable" and a SMART_HOST value in sendmail.mc) one can
> quickly get up and running with a loc
On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 06:55:20PM +0100, Erik Norgaard typed:
> Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
> >
> I don't argue for a replacement but for the elimination. Install a port
> if you need an MTA, you're happy with that way for so many other
> standard services.
Isn't this going a little too far? What
Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
So Sendmail is a pretty heavy-weight program, but it also supports a lot of
features.
Which was the point, if the only process in base that requires some way
to dump output other than send to syslog, is cron, then Sendmail is
disproportionate solution for the proble
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 08:49:40 +0100, Erik Norgaard wrote:
> But, do we actually need an MTA in the base? The only arguments
> I have seen in this thread are:
>
> - because it's been there since the beginning of history - because cron
> requires it to send the daily reports
>
> For the first, that m
pete wright wrote:
On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Frank Shute wrote:
FreeBSD: ?
I can't think of a good reason why FreeBSD should get rid of it.
Saying that, it would be neat if it was taken out of base and replaced
with something minimal that could cope with the demands of cron and
not muc
On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 05:11:54PM -0200, Gonzalo Nemmi wrote:
>
> On Wednesday 28 October 2009 12:14:17 am Frank Shute wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 08:45:59PM -0200, Gonzalo Nemmi wrote:
> > > On Tuesday 27 October 2009 7:31:34 pm Jerry McAllister wrote:
> >
> > [snippage]
> >
> > > > So, th
On Wednesday 28 October 2009 12:14:17 am Frank Shute wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 08:45:59PM -0200, Gonzalo Nemmi wrote:
> > On Tuesday 27 October 2009 7:31:34 pm Jerry McAllister wrote:
>
> [snippage]
>
> > > So, that leaves personal preference as the only real reason
> > > for wanting to repl
On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 02:14:17AM +, Frank Shute wrote:
>
> I'll speculate as to the reasons:
>
> NetBSD: probably wanted something smaller footprint-wise.
>
> OpenBSD: wanted something more secure.
Those both sound like great reasons.
>
> Dragonfly: started afresh, so could replace it
On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 1:43 AM, Bernt Hansson wrote:
>
>
> Lars Eighner said the following on 2009-10-28 05:46:
>>
>> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009, Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 20:24:38 -0500 (CDT), Lars Eighner
>>> wrote:
Evidently by making it necessary to learn yet ano
Jerry McAllister wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 05:03:12PM -0200, Gonzalo Nemmi wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday 27 October 2009 4:32:45 pm Erik Norgaard wrote:
>> > Jonathan McKeown wrote:
>> > > Just as a matter of interest, if you want to rip sendmail out of
>> > > the base system, which MTA would you
Lars Eighner writes:
> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009, Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 20:24:38 -0500 (CDT), Lars Eighner
>> wrote:
>>> Evidently by making it necessary to learn yet another scripting
>>> language to configure it. Other than personal profit I cannot see why
>>> people ar
Lars Eighner said the following on 2009-10-28 05:46:
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009, Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 20:24:38 -0500 (CDT), Lars Eighner
wrote:
Evidently by making it necessary to learn yet another scripting
language to configure it. Other than personal profit I cannot see
Lars Eighner said the following on 2009-10-28 05:46:
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009, Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 20:24:38 -0500 (CDT), Lars Eighner
wrote:
Evidently by making it necessary to learn yet another scripting
language to configure it. Other than personal profit I cannot see
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:03:12 -0200 Gonzalo Nemmi
wrote:
>On Tuesday 27 October 2009 4:32:45 pm Erik Norgaard wrote:
>> Jonathan McKeown wrote:
>> > Just as a matter of interest, if you want to rip sendmail out of
>> > the base system, which MTA would you like to replace it with? Or
>> > are y
Lars Eighner wrote:
>Evidently my package database is corrupt in some way, because it shows m4 as
>an installed port. I wonder how that happened, how to fix it, and if it
>will bite if I leave it alone.
The GNU version of m4 is a FreeBSD Port, devel/m4. The base system
m4(1) was originally based
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009, Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 20:24:38 -0500 (CDT), Lars Eighner
wrote:
Evidently by making it necessary to learn yet another scripting
language to configure it. Other than personal profit I cannot see why
people are clinging like grim death to something t
On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Frank Shute wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 08:45:59PM -0200, Gonzalo Nemmi wrote:
>>
>> On Tuesday 27 October 2009 7:31:34 pm Jerry McAllister wrote:
>>
> [snippage]
>>
>> > So, that leaves personal preference as the only real reason
>> > for wanting to replace i
On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 08:45:59PM -0200, Gonzalo Nemmi wrote:
>
> On Tuesday 27 October 2009 7:31:34 pm Jerry McAllister wrote:
>
[snippage]
>
> > So, that leaves personal preference as the only real reason
> > for wanting to replace it.
>
> Let me get this straight .. that means that every Lin
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 20:24:38 -0500 (CDT), Lars Eighner
wrote:
> Evidently by making it necessary to learn yet another scripting
> language to configure it. Other than personal profit I cannot see why
> people are clinging like grim death to something this fubar. Really,
> let's go past this one
On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 6:24 PM, Lars Eighner
wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009, pete wright wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 5:16 PM, Lars Eighner
>> wrote:
>>
You guessed wrong.
We use m4, which cuts out most of the crap that you had to write into
sendmail.cf. You write sendma
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009, pete wright wrote:
On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 5:16 PM, Lars Eighner
wrote:
You guessed wrong.
We use m4, which cuts out most of the crap that you had to write into
sendmail.cf. You write sendmail.mc and compile it. Sendmail.mc on my
system is less than 50 lines long, includ
On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 5:16 PM, Lars Eighner
wrote:
>> You guessed wrong.
>>
>> We use m4, which cuts out most of the crap that you had to write into
>> sendmail.cf. You write sendmail.mc and compile it. Sendmail.mc on my
>> system is less than 50 lines long, including comments.
>>
>> http://www
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009, Chris Rees wrote:
2009/10/27 Lars Eighner :
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009, Chris Rees wrote:
2009/10/27 Lars Eighner :
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009, Jonathan McKeown wrote:
On Monday 26 October 2009 21:29:27 Yuri wrote:
It's in /usr/sbin/sendmail.
How many people actually use it? Ver
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 19:00:25 -0400
Jerry McAllister wrote:
> >
> > Fit the bill ... well.. so did the Geocentric model .. and it
> > actually did work just as fine .. and even better yet since it also
> > mantained the "status quo" ! ... but then Galileo came and you know
> > the rest of the s
Gonzalo Nemmi wrote:
On Tuesday 27 October 2009 7:22:22 pm Lowell Gilbert wrote:
I probably should move this bikeshed to freebsd-chat...
I'd like the bikeshed blue, please. Also, since Sendmail
has reached maturity, let's baptize it now instead of
during infancy, and add a knob FEATURE(requir
On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 08:45:59PM -0200, Gonzalo Nemmi wrote:
> On Tuesday 27 October 2009 7:31:34 pm Jerry McAllister wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 05:03:12PM -0200, Gonzalo Nemmi wrote:
> > > On Tuesday 27 October 2009 4:32:45 pm Erik Norgaard wrote:
> > > > Jonathan McKeown wrote:
> > > >
On Tuesday 27 October 2009 7:31:34 pm Jerry McAllister wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 05:03:12PM -0200, Gonzalo Nemmi wrote:
> > On Tuesday 27 October 2009 4:32:45 pm Erik Norgaard wrote:
> > > Jonathan McKeown wrote:
> > > > Just as a matter of interest, if you want to rip sendmail out
> > > > o
On Tuesday 27 October 2009 7:22:22 pm Lowell Gilbert wrote:
> I probably should move this bikeshed to freebsd-chat...
>
> Gonzalo Nemmi writes:
> > On Tuesday 27 October 2009 6:20:35 pm Frank Shute wrote:
> >> On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 09:24:58PM +0200, Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
> >> I can imagine th
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 14:54:44 -0400
Lowell Gilbert wrote:
> Green! No, no, Blue! AA
>
I think it should be disque shaped.
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On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 05:03:12PM -0200, Gonzalo Nemmi wrote:
> On Tuesday 27 October 2009 4:32:45 pm Erik Norgaard wrote:
> > Jonathan McKeown wrote:
> > > Just as a matter of interest, if you want to rip sendmail out of
> > > the base system, which MTA would you like to replace it with? Or
> >
I probably should move this bikeshed to freebsd-chat...
Gonzalo Nemmi writes:
> On Tuesday 27 October 2009 6:20:35 pm Frank Shute wrote:
>> On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 09:24:58PM +0200, Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
>> I can imagine that a lot of people do use sendmail - it's documented
>> in the handboo
On Tuesday 27 October 2009 6:20:35 pm Frank Shute wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 09:24:58PM +0200, Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
>
> [big snip]
>
> > Until then, the status quo is here because it works, it has been
> > stable for a very long time, and it serves its current purpose
> > "well enough".
>
2009/10/27 Lars Eighner :
> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009, Chris Rees wrote:
>
>> 2009/10/27 Lars Eighner :
>>>
>>> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009, Jonathan McKeown wrote:
>>>
On Monday 26 October 2009 21:29:27 Yuri wrote:
>
> It's in /usr/sbin/sendmail.
>
> How many people actually use it? Very fe
On Tuesday 27 October 2009 6:18:33 pm ill...@gmail.com wrote:
> 2009/10/27 Gonzalo Nemmi :
> > On Tuesday 27 October 2009 7:32:14 am b. f. wrote:
> >> >It's in /usr/sbin/sendmail.
> >> >
> >> >How many people actually use it? Very few.
> >> >Why isn't it moved to ports?
> >>
> >> Obviously, not eve
On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 09:24:58PM +0200, Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
>
[big snip]
>
> Until then, the status quo is here because it works, it has been stable
> for a very long time, and it serves its current purpose "well enough".
>
I don't use sendmail but it's easy enough to build a different MT
2009/10/27 Gonzalo Nemmi :
> On Tuesday 27 October 2009 7:32:14 am b. f. wrote:
>> >It's in /usr/sbin/sendmail.
>> >
>> >How many people actually use it? Very few.
>> >Why isn't it moved to ports?
>>
>> Obviously, not everyone wants or needs sendmail in the base system.
>> But quite a few people do
On Tuesday 27 October 2009 5:24:58 pm Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:47:12 -0200, Gonzalo Nemmi
wrote:
> > On Tuesday 27 October 2009 4:00:07 pm Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
> >> - Import your MTA of choice in a local branch.
> >> - Integrate the $NEWMTA with the base system of
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009, Chris Rees wrote:
2009/10/27 Lars Eighner :
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009, Jonathan McKeown wrote:
On Monday 26 October 2009 21:29:27 Yuri wrote:
It's in /usr/sbin/sendmail.
How many people actually use it? Very few.
Why isn't it moved to ports?
What is this anti-sendmail obse
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:47:12 -0200, Gonzalo Nemmi wrote:
> On Tuesday 27 October 2009 4:00:07 pm Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
>> - Import your MTA of choice in a local branch.
>> - Integrate the $NEWMTA with the base system of FreeBSD.
>> - Update the manpages and documentation for $NEWMTA.
>>
On Tuesday 27 October 2009 7:16:14 am Chris Rees wrote:
> 2009/10/27 Lars Eighner :
> > On Tue, 27 Oct 2009, Jonathan McKeown wrote:
> >> On Monday 26 October 2009 21:29:27 Yuri wrote:
> >>> It's in /usr/sbin/sendmail.
> >>>
> >>> How many people actually use it? Very few.
> >>> Why isn't it moved
On Tuesday 27 October 2009 4:32:45 pm Erik Norgaard wrote:
> Jonathan McKeown wrote:
> > Just as a matter of interest, if you want to rip sendmail out of
> > the base system, which MTA would you like to replace it with? Or
> > are you suggesting the system ship with no way to handle mail?
>
> This
Green! No, no, Blue! AA
--
Lowell Gilbert, embedded/networking software engineer, Boston area
http://be-well.ilk.org/~lowell/
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On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 00:16, Jonathan McKeown wrote:
> On Monday 26 October 2009 21:29:27 Yuri wrote:
>> It's in /usr/sbin/sendmail.
>>
>> How many people actually use it? Very few.
>> Why isn't it moved to ports?
>
> What is this anti-sendmail obsession people have?
>
> Almost everyone I've eve
On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 12:32, Bill Moran wrote:
> In response to Yuri :
> Besides, if it's not there, how are you going to send mail from things
> like cron?
Postfix.
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On Tuesday 27 October 2009 4:00:07 pm Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:43:39 -0200, Gonzalo Nemmi
wrote:
> >On Tuesday 27 October 2009 7:32:14 am b. f. wrote:
> >>>It's in /usr/sbin/sendmail.
> >>>
> >>>How many people actually use it? Very few. Why isn't it moved to
> >>>ports?
Jonathan McKeown wrote:
Just as a matter of interest, if you want to rip sendmail out of the base
system, which MTA would you like to replace it with? Or are you suggesting
the system ship with no way to handle mail?
This thread moving of topic from OP, but it is always fair to debate
what s
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:43:39 -0200, Gonzalo Nemmi wrote:
>On Tuesday 27 October 2009 7:32:14 am b. f. wrote:
>>>It's in /usr/sbin/sendmail.
>>>
>>>How many people actually use it? Very few. Why isn't it moved to
>>>ports?
>>
>> Obviously, not everyone wants or needs sendmail in the base system.
>
On Tuesday 27 October 2009 5:16:30 am Jonathan McKeown wrote:
> On Monday 26 October 2009 21:29:27 Yuri wrote:
> > It's in /usr/sbin/sendmail.
> >
> > How many people actually use it? Very few.
> > Why isn't it moved to ports?
>
> What is this anti-sendmail obsession people have?
Hard to tell .. a
On Monday 26 October 2009 11:06:47 pm Olivier Nicole wrote:
> > How many people actually use it? Very few.
>
> Out of the 12 or 15 servers I run, only one do not use stock
> sendmail: the mail server. So one out of twelve is rather quite a
> lot...
Let me get this .. are you saying that out of 12
On Tuesday 27 October 2009 7:32:14 am b. f. wrote:
> >It's in /usr/sbin/sendmail.
> >
> >How many people actually use it? Very few.
> >Why isn't it moved to ports?
>
> Obviously, not everyone wants or needs sendmail in the base system.
> But quite a few people do use it, and many FreeBSD developers
>It's in /usr/sbin/sendmail.
>
>How many people actually use it? Very few.
>Why isn't it moved to ports?
Obviously, not everyone wants or needs sendmail in the base system.
But quite a few people do use it, and many FreeBSD developers are
happy with the status quo, so it is unlikely that sendmail
2009/10/27 Lars Eighner :
> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009, Jonathan McKeown wrote:
>
>> On Monday 26 October 2009 21:29:27 Yuri wrote:
>>>
>>> It's in /usr/sbin/sendmail.
>>>
>>> How many people actually use it? Very few.
>>> Why isn't it moved to ports?
>>
>> What is this anti-sendmail obsession people have
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009, Jonathan McKeown wrote:
On Monday 26 October 2009 21:29:27 Yuri wrote:
It's in /usr/sbin/sendmail.
How many people actually use it? Very few.
Why isn't it moved to ports?
What is this anti-sendmail obsession people have?
The configuration is opaque, to put it kindly.
On Monday 26 October 2009 21:29:27 Yuri wrote:
> It's in /usr/sbin/sendmail.
>
> How many people actually use it? Very few.
> Why isn't it moved to ports?
What is this anti-sendmail obsession people have?
Almost everyone I've ever spoken to about why they dislike sendmail trots out
a bunch of cl
> How many people actually use it? Very few.
Out of the 12 or 15 servers I run, only one do not use stock sendmail:
the mail server. So one out of twelve is rather quite a lot...
Olivier
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On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 12:29:27 -0700, Yuri wrote:
> It's in /usr/sbin/sendmail.
>
> How many people actually use it? Very few.
> Why isn't it moved to ports?
This questions comes up very often. You can find lots of reasons in one
of the older threads about Sendmail, e.g. at:
http://groups.googl
In response to Yuri :
> It's in /usr/sbin/sendmail.
>
> How many people actually use it? Very few.
Quite a lot. In fact, anyone who properly installs FreeBSD as a server.
> Why isn't it moved to ports?
Because an MTA has traditionally been part of a POSIX system.
Besides, if it's not there,
Yuri wrote:
> It's in /usr/sbin/sendmail.
>
> How many people actually use it? Very few.
Are you sure about that?
AFAIK, all system reports are sent with the sendmail binary.
Steve
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