[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #2143] [RFC] AI interface using lua

[Marko Lindqvist]

Update of patch #2143 (project freeciv):

 Planned Release:   2.5.0 =>


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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #2143] [RFC] AI interface using lua

[Matthias Pfafferodt]

Follow-up Comment #8, patch #2143 (project freeciv):

I will have to see if the old patches are still useable ...

> This cannot work correctly. (Well, it does as long as you use 
> all parts of default ai, and don't reimplement any part 
> yourself). 

Therefore my old patches for the lua ai included a complete copy of the
default ai ...

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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #2143] [RFC] AI interface using lua

[Marko Lindqvist]

Follow-up Comment #7, patch #2143 (project freeciv):

> Most notable problem is that default ai code depends heavily on
> pointer to its own ai type (default_ai_get_self() calls). So
> default ai functions you call are not using data stored for your
> lua ai, but for default ai.

This has been since changed so that default ai does not use
default_ai_get_self() but uses pointer passed to it from the upper level.

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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #2143] [RFC] AI interface using lua

[Matthias Pfafferodt]

Update of patch #2143 (project freeciv):

 Planned Release:   2.4.0 => 2.5.0  


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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #2143] [RFC] AI interface using lua

[Marko Lindqvist]

Follow-up Comment #6, patch #2143 (project freeciv):

> starts a lua ai (default ai called via a lua instance) 

This cannot work correctly. (Well, it does as long as you use *all* parts of
default ai, and don't reimplement any part yourself).
Most notable problem is that default ai code depends heavily on pointer to
its own ai type (default_ai_get_self() calls). So default ai functions you
call are not using data stored for you lua ai, but for default ai.

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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #2143] [RFC] AI interface using lua

[Matthias Pfafferodt]

Follow-up Comment #5, patch #2143 (project freeciv):

move file #12399 (comment #4) to patch #2554

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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #2143] [RFC] AI interface using lua

[Matthias Pfafferodt]

Update of patch #2143 (project freeciv):

  Depends on: => patch #2554


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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #2143] [RFC] AI interface using lua

[Matthias Pfafferodt]

Update of patch #2143 (project freeciv):

  Depends on: => patch #2417


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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #2143] [RFC] AI interface using lua

[Matthias Pfafferodt]

Update of patch #2143 (project freeciv):

  Depends on: => patch #2520


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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #2143] [RFC] AI interface using lua

[Matthias Pfafferodt]

Follow-up Comment #4, patch #2143 (project freeciv):

see also patch #2520; attached is a stub lua ai interface ...

(file #12399)
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Additional Item Attachment:

File name: 20110211-add-stub-for-lua-ai.patch Size:4 KB


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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #2143] [RFC] AI interface using lua

[Matthias Pfafferodt]

Update of patch #2143 (project freeciv):

Priority:   1 - Later => 5 - Normal 
  Status:None => In Progress
 Assigned to:None => syntron
 Planned Release: => 2.4.0  

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Follow-up Comment #3:

I did started this ...

The attached big patch file does:

* a rewrite of the lua module
* split it in a common (common/scriptcore) and server (server/scripting)
part
* clean up lua functions (use for fcdb) and signal handling (server)
* adds client lua script (client/luascript) with possibilities of signals
like in the server
* add a client lua console (only gtk client)
* starts a lua ai (default ai called via a lua instance)

The patch needs some cleanup & work wrt the lua ai but the module can be
loaded. All other parts are working.

I will splitt it into smaller parts when it is finished.

(file #12364)
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Additional Item Attachment:

File name: script.diff.bz2Size:50 KB


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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #2143] [RFC] AI interface using lua

[Matthias Pfafferodt]

Update of patch #2143 (project freeciv):

  Depends on: => patch #1785


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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #2143] [RFC] AI interface using lua

[Matthias Pfafferodt]

Follow-up Comment #2, patch #2143 (project freeciv):

> It sounds a good idea. But, we probably need to decide about
> what we want to do: AI at server side in C, AI at server side > lua
scripted or AI client side. As I understand patch #1785 or
> patch #1846, we were going to a server side AI... 

I do not consider client side AI an option. As discussed somethere (I did not
find the source), the AI is coupled to the knowledge of the server which will
not be available in the client. Thus, a client side AI would never be as good
as a server side AI.

Furthermore, there should be distinguished between AI and advisors. The AI
belongs into the server but advisors for the player (as in 'small helper
script') could be part of the client. They would use only the players
knowledge.

About the language to use for server side AI, this ticket is the place to
discuss it. A lua implementation would allow to (easily?) save the AI state
similar as done for the server lua script.

patch #1785 is at the moment on hold. I have to revise the patches to the
current state of trunk.

patch #1846 would be of interest to speed up the AI. I think, one lua state
for each AI would help here (i.e. one lua state could be assigned to one
thread?).

Short summary of some comments to this toppic I found using google:

> The second problem is that, provided the AI feature is
> client-side in a client-server game, those who have the better
> AI scripts or AI code will gain a substantial advantage. This
> is particularly the case in multiplayer games that use a
> timeout timer to end turns. The unofficial Freeciv 'warclient'
> gives players mass control over units and is a substantial aid
> in timeout games. While some may find this (writing their own
> AI-aid code) a challenge on its own, it is inherently unfair
> and detracts focus from the core game concepts.
[http://freeciv.wikia.com/wiki/4x_Design]

"Why client-side AI could be a Bad Thing" (nice read!):
[http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.games.freeciv.devel/6545/focus=6560]

Discussion of client-side AI and AI using lua:
[https://mail.gna.org/public/freeciv-dev/2010-05/msg00118.html]

Discussion of client side AI in the freeciv forum:
[http://forum.freeciv.org/viewtopic.php?t=757]

Using function pointers for the AI functions and a comment by Per to the
complexity of the AI:
[http://forum.freeciv.org/viewtopic.php?t=1386]

Why the AI is in the server (again comment by Per):
[http://forum.freeciv.org/viewtopic.php?t=52]

Old try on client side AI (puppeteer):
[http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.games.freeciv.ai/month=20040301]
[http://download.gna.org/freeciv/incoming/puppeteer.patch.cvs-Sep-09_0.006.diff.gz]

A good summary of the problems with the AI by Per:
[http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.games.freeciv.ai/1454]


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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #2143] [RFC] AI interface using lua

[pepeto]

Follow-up Comment #1, patch #2143 (project freeciv):

It sounds a good idea. But, we probably need to decide about what we want to
do: AI at server side in C, AI at server side lua scripted or AI client side.
As I understand patch #1785 or patch #1846, we were going to a server side
AI...


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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #2143] [RFC] AI interface using lua

[Matthias Pfafferodt]

URL:
  

 Summary: [RFC] AI interface using lua
 Project: Freeciv
Submitted by: syntron
Submitted on: Samstag 30.10.2010 um 00:26
Category: ai
Priority: 1 - Later
  Status: None
 Privacy: Public
 Assigned to: None
Originator Email: 
 Open/Closed: Open
 Discussion Lock: Any
 Planned Release: 

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Details:

I did implement the authentication system in lua using luasql. Doing this I
through about the current AI implementation:

At the moment the AI interface is defined via ./common/ai.(ch),
./server/aiiiface.(ch) and ./ai/defaultai.(ch). Only this interface should be
used to access the AI. To create an independent AI implementation work is done
to remove all dependencies of ./server on files of the AI (./ai). Therefore,
the advisors are separated into ./server/advisors.

Considering the frequently expressed request to create a scriptable AI, this
interface can be change to an lua interface. For each AI player a lua state
is created and, in the beginning, the above discussed functions are defined
as entry points from freeciv to the lua. This functions in turn only call
back to the AI definitions in ./ai. In time, the some lua function can be
implemented, doing some general AI work, while the main part (or the work
load) is still be done in c.

Pro:
- scripting of the AI
- different AI's

Contra:
- speed
- indirective calls (c => lua => c)
- yet another interface, why not finish the current?

This is nothing I will work on at the moment but is a nice idea what could be
done with the current lua implementation.

Comments?





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