Re: [Freeciv-Dev] Request: Option for behavior of specials while terraforming in game setup?
William Allen Simpson wrote: > Jonathan Kaplan wrote: >> ... but what would be >> ideal would be putting a *large* range of options available as a >> user-controlled setting. > > Shudder. That's horrible. How do you test? > > Remember, this has to handle civ1/2/3-like games, so civ1 Swamp resource > Oil has to turn into civ2 Peat, and then civ3 Oil again, depending on the > *same* game loading a different ruleset. Likewise, Tundra, Desert, etc. > All while the terrain is irrigated/mined/transformed. > > The reason that the old Freeciv behaviors were changed it that the code > didn't actually work well -- Fish on land, etc. > > There were long discussions. The best path to correct code was "hiding" > the resource whenever wrong for the terrain. It has the added advantage > that after cutting down trees, and building a road, reforesting gives > back > the Game Just like they teach in natural resources classes! Well, I just think that as many options as can be made to work *fairly well* should be available, for people to choose as they like! I like being able to make quite a bit of swamp/spices, even if it is "unrealistic". > >> 1.) It rerolls whether or not there is a special whenever the land >> type is changed, and the new special will always be appropriate to >> the land type, even if land is changed to water or vice versa > > Very like civ1. And that was changed in commercial civ2, because it > leads > to bad game play. People repeatedly change the terrain until they get > the > combination they like best. > > And when did cutting down a mountain ever give you a wonderful forest > full > of deer, anyway? In life, it yields a thousand year blight! Like I said, the idea is a choice where you can choose the type of gameplay you want, and the style of terraforming utility you want in your game... I just think this shouldn't be a "developer chosen only" thing, because many people like one of the options that the game had previously. Why would it be so hard to simply make the options that have come about so far to be availalble? > >> 2.) The special simply stays, but land specials always stay on land, >> and if it is changed to water, it goes away, and water specials can >> never be on land > > That's what was intended in 2.0, but it never worked well. And again, > the > players gamed the system, so you ended up with buffalo on grassland, etc. > > The resources are "balanced" for each terrain. Allowing them on another > terrain creates horrendous game play problems. > > ... > >> Does anyone have any thoughts about this? > > Many. But the most important thing is to get the current code well > tested > before embarking on new options > > The one thing that I'd planned was new flags for persistent/exhausted > resources, so that Coal/Gold would stay after transforming a hill, but be > depleted over time. So, "living" resources would still disappear on > terrain changes, but could replenish forever. > > Anyway, these should never be "a user-controlled setting." They need > to be > in well-developed scenarios, where all the chosen features can be > balanced. > Well, why can't anyone choose the settings of the specials like they can for everything else? It seems to me that this game is about giving you options for customization, not taking them away... Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
Re: [Freeciv-Dev] Request: Option for behavior of specials while terraforming in game setup?
Jonathan Kaplan wrote: > ... but what would be > ideal would be putting a *large* range of options available as a > user-controlled setting. Shudder. That's horrible. How do you test? Remember, this has to handle civ1/2/3-like games, so civ1 Swamp resource Oil has to turn into civ2 Peat, and then civ3 Oil again, depending on the *same* game loading a different ruleset. Likewise, Tundra, Desert, etc. All while the terrain is irrigated/mined/transformed. The reason that the old Freeciv behaviors were changed it that the code didn't actually work well -- Fish on land, etc. There were long discussions. The best path to correct code was "hiding" the resource whenever wrong for the terrain. It has the added advantage that after cutting down trees, and building a road, reforesting gives back the Game Just like they teach in natural resources classes! > 1.) It rerolls whether or not there is a special whenever the land type > is changed, and the new special will always be appropriate to the land > type, even if land is changed to water or vice versa Very like civ1. And that was changed in commercial civ2, because it leads to bad game play. People repeatedly change the terrain until they get the combination they like best. And when did cutting down a mountain ever give you a wonderful forest full of deer, anyway? In life, it yields a thousand year blight! > 2.) The special simply stays, but land specials always stay on land, and > if it is changed to water, it goes away, and water specials can never be > on land That's what was intended in 2.0, but it never worked well. And again, the players gamed the system, so you ended up with buffalo on grassland, etc. The resources are "balanced" for each terrain. Allowing them on another terrain creates horrendous game play problems. ... > Does anyone have any thoughts about this? Many. But the most important thing is to get the current code well tested before embarking on new options The one thing that I'd planned was new flags for persistent/exhausted resources, so that Coal/Gold would stay after transforming a hill, but be depleted over time. So, "living" resources would still disappear on terrain changes, but could replenish forever. Anyway, these should never be "a user-controlled setting." They need to be in well-developed scenarios, where all the chosen features can be balanced. ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] Request: Option for behavior of specials while terraforming in game setup?
It seems that through various versions of Freeciv, the behavior of specials squares when they were terraformed has been changed. I propose that one could choose from a list of possible behaviors when setting up the game, rather than taking the option out of the game creator's hands. This could be done as a server setting, and it would be simple to re-implement the old settings, but what would be ideal would be putting a *large* range of options available as a user-controlled setting. Here is an example of how I would describe various options: 1.) It rerolls whether or not there is a special whenever the land type is changed, and the new special will always be appropriate to the land type, even if land is changed to water or vice versa 2.) The special simply stays, but land specials always stay on land, and if it is changed to water, it goes away, and water specials can never be on land 3.) It changes to whichever tier of special is appropriate for the new land type, (ie, so if you change a land special to swamp, it will either be peat or spice, depending on wcich "side" the special was on) (of course, if land is changed to water or vice versa, the special goes away) 4.) It changes an existing special to a random special of the appropriate type (so if you changed a plains/wheat to swamp, it would have a 50/50 chance of being peat or spice) (of course, if land is changed to water or vice versa, the special goes away...) 5.) when the special is changed to another type of terrain, the special is always removed. 6.) Like 3, but water specials stay 7.) like 4, but water specials stay This would allow people to customize the utility of terraforming specials in game, which expands gameplay options. Does anyone have any thoughts about this? Also, I have attempted to send this request before, but I haven't been able to. Thanks! Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
